People are arguing for nothing at all, really. Though we use the word "sports" out of laziness, the actual term some people are referring to is "Athletic sports" when referring to such things as Football among other things. This is why Esports is called Esports; it is Electronic Sports. The incorrect assertion that "Sports" has to be athletic is the cause of this misunderstanding, and over time our own laziness and forgetting the nature of things has even led to dictionaries saying "especially of the athletic variety" due to us naturally thinking of athletic sports when someone mentions it.
There is an interesting video on this entitled "Are Esports real sports and does it even matter?":
Thank you for that link Yaevindusk. That video explains it better than i ever could. As I explained in one of my very first post, gaming is an eSport, and it is called an eSport in name only although many categorize it as competitive gaming, which is actually a more accurate description for the activity. What it is not, is a sport in the traditional sense of the word. And like the narrator says in the video, no one with any real knowledge of the subject attempts to say it is so. It is an eSport, not a sport. There is a distinct difference between the two.
It's kind of funny watching you rant about this and keep saying things like the part in red. I'm curious if you even comprehend what the definition of the word sport actually is. Here are a few excerpts:
- a contest or game in which people do certain physical activities according to a specific set of rules and compete against each other
- a physical activity (such as hunting, fishing, running, swimming, etc.) that is done for enjoyment
- participating in an activity (such as hunting or fishing) for enjoyment rather than as a job or for food for survival
Nowhere does it say that it requires X amount of physical exertion. There are a large variety of sports, all of which require varying degrees of physical exertion. Bowling and golf for example require a tiny fraction of it in comparison to something like soccer or football.
Competitive gaming fits the definition of a sport just fine. The part you seem to be hung up on is the difference between sport and esport, which is nothing more than semantics. It's not called an esport BECAUSE it isn't a sport. It's called an esport for the same reason that many things involving the internet have prefixes or suffixes added to them because they are a technology based thing. Just like we have mail vs email or trading vs etrading.
Theyre the same thing, only in electronic form. Of course if history had been ass backwards and we had the internet way back when these words were invented, they would have always been called simply sports, trading, mail, etc. Unfortunately the internet wasn't around many centuries ago when they were created, so now we use things like esport and email to differentiate between the 2.
Did you even listen to the video link or read the thread at all? I am sure you have not because had you done so you would know that I've already responded to every single point made in your post. Doing so would have also saved you from writing that long dissertation of a post. Especially since it added nothing new to the discussion.
Again, sorry to hurt your feelings but NO, you are not playing a sport in the traditional sense of the word, and NO, you are not the world class athlete you imagined yourself to be. You are just a nerd in front of a computer playing what gamers have termed an eSport, or what has been more accurately described as competitive gaming, or electronic video gaming. That really is it in a nutshell.
EDIT: You know what, I don't know why I even bother. If its so important for some of you to be deemed athletes playing a sport, then so be it. I hereby declare you all athletes. Yes, Mr./Miss/Mrs/Jr./toddler/etc Video Gamer, from this point forward, whenever and wherever you play a video game, you will be considered athletes playing a sport. Yay!
Well, says it all really, the guy thinks that ethics in journalism is a very low priority. Still as long as he's getting paid for it, then his opinion is valid right, because you know, ethics is not that important.
or in the U.S. Gov't, saying nonsense like video gamers are athletes playing a sport. That would be funny, if it wasn't so sad.
I think this is more done for legal purposes then because they really believe they are athletes. So that people wanting to become a professional e-sport player has the same change as someone trying to become a profession soccer player, for example when in college, university, etc.
I think e-sports are in a gray area. Car racing is a sport. Car racing behind my computer is not? What if I was in a f1 simulator (the once professional driver use to train) and use that to e-sport with. Does that make it a sport then?
Also a shooter at the moment is not a sport, but what when we start to use the occulas rift in combination with the Virtuix omni? Would playing the same shooter make it a sport? So yes I think at one point e-sport might be a sport and those praticing it might be athletes. Not at the moment though.
So many salty people. Seriously, people get over yourselves. It's an interview with a guy, give him a break, he's human like you. Not like he's freaking Hitler.
or in the U.S. Gov't, saying nonsense like video gamers are athletes playing a sport. That would be funny, if it wasn't so sad.
I think this is more done for legal purposes then because they really believe they are athletes. So that people wanting to become a professional e-sport player has the same change as someone trying to become a profession soccer player, for example when in college, university, etc.
I suspect it has much more to do with how to tax their income. If it is a hobby then the income would not be taxable in Australia I am guessing it is much the same in the US.
I think e-sports are in a gray area. Car racing is a sport. ? That is arguable but not uncontested, again the hobby versus profession argument.
Car racing behind my computer is not? No What if I was in a f1 simulator (the once professional driver use to train) and use that to e-sport with. Does that make it a sport then? Still no.
Also a shooter at the moment is not a sport, but what when we start to use the occulas rift in combination with the Virtuix omni? Nope
Would playing the same shooter make it a sport? Nope
So yes I think at one point e-sport might be a sport and those praticing it might be athletes. Not at the moment though.
Several false premises leading to a false conclusion. E-sports, whatever they are, are not Sports.
Gamergate was never a movement all it was was a bunch of harrassing trolls and career buffs trying ot get in on the coat tails of the situation that never existed.
If they wanted to report on something how about reporting on the countless youtube gamer channels that are funded by major corporations that publish who suddenly up and disappear whenever they say anything at all negative about the game publishers themselves or their developers.
Case in point, Dontain. Disappeared after he spoke badly about NCSoft and the "Precious" GW2 and their developers and there their money was going and how they were handling their temporary items in the shop and some content troubles.
Completely disappeared off the map.
That's what gamergates conversation should have been about instead we get these crazy " Neo feminists" like Sarkeesian trying to further their careers acting like she's a gamer when she's the farthest thing from it.
Actually, if you're talking about disturbing assertions about sports, then see the highlighted one above. Unfortunately your primary focus is on the physical prowess of an athlete. However, in reality, the physical component as a factor on the athletes overall performance is relatively small by comparison. Their physical performance accounts for less than 50% of their overall athletic performance. Do some science and it'll tell you that.
Dude, my primary focus is that it is either a sport or its not. Its really just that simple. On the one hand, it can't be considered just a gaming hobby if a novice is engaged in it, and on the other hand, a sport if a professional is engaged in it. Stop it with the word semantics. Is it just a gaming hobby, or is it a sport? Which one is it? It can't be both.
It's not semantics. Sports are, literally, more mental than physical. The physical component of a sport is actually a very small percentage of the overall performance of that athlete. Baseball, basketball and football are all more than two thirds mental and there are plenty of sports training books out there which will tell you that. It's the WHOLE reason that Sports Psychologist is even a thing!!!
Gaming could be considered either. Same could be said for anything, though. A hobby is something that you do with your spare time. So throwing the ball around in the yard is a hobby. It sure as hell isn't a sport. Sport is defined by a couple major components, competition and physical exertion. If you can prove, definitively, that someone playing a professional video game tournament is exerting themselves less than each official Olympic Sport then I'll relent. Period. Fact is that I know that, even at a physical level, there is more physical exertion in professional gaming than with some Olympic Sports.
You are intentionally dodging the question. You must be a politician. And a poor one at that lol
Gaming is either a sport or it isn't. Which one is it? If it is then we are all athletes playing a sport when we are playing a game on our computers. You are saying nothing when stating that sports are more mental than physical. I am fully cognizant that mental psyche plays a huge part in sports. Like wise, no one is denying that a large portion of sporting is defined by competition and physical exertion. Those major components of mental toughness, competition, and physical exertion, however, are present in almost everything we do in life and most of them have nothing at all to do with sports.
So can we do away with the nonsense rhetoric and get to the crux of the matter.
So answer the question, Mr. World Class Athlete Chess player. Is gaming a sport or is it not? Yes or no. If your contention is that it is, then my 7 year old nephew is an athlete, and he is playing a sport when playing his favorite game of Chutes and Ladders in my uncles computer. He is very competitive and exerts himself enormously. I can tell by his focused huffing and puffing and occasional stomping and falling to the ground when things don't go his way.
So is my little nephew an athlete playing a sport now, or does he have to wait until ... oh I don't know, please tell me ... before he can be acknowledged as a world class athlete playing a sport?
P.S: It pleases me to read that you are frantically searching the internet for answers. Please continue searching. That caption brings nothing to the discussion. No one is denying any of that. My question stands, and remains unanswered.
I've asked you multiple times to prove your point. All you're doing is asking me to answer your question which is so cliche and old that it's ridiculous. So YOU answer MY question. Prove to me that gaming is less physically demanding than every sport listed as an Olypmic event. Do that and you win. Don't and you lose. Period. Game over.
Actually, if you're talking about disturbing assertions about sports, then see the highlighted one above. Unfortunately your primary focus is on the physical prowess of an athlete. However, in reality, the physical component as a factor on the athletes overall performance is relatively small by comparison. Their physical performance accounts for less than 50% of their overall athletic performance. Do some science and it'll tell you that.
Dude, my primary focus is that it is either a sport or its not. Its really just that simple. On the one hand, it can't be considered just a gaming hobby if a novice is engaged in it, and on the other hand, a sport if a professional is engaged in it. Stop it with the word semantics. Is it just a gaming hobby, or is it a sport? Which one is it? It can't be both.
It's not semantics. Sports are, literally, more mental than physical. The physical component of a sport is actually a very small percentage of the overall performance of that athlete. Baseball, basketball and football are all more than two thirds mental and there are plenty of sports training books out there which will tell you that. It's the WHOLE reason that Sports Psychologist is even a thing!!!
Gaming could be considered either. Same could be said for anything, though. A hobby is something that you do with your spare time. So throwing the ball around in the yard is a hobby. It sure as hell isn't a sport. Sport is defined by a couple major components, competition and physical exertion. If you can prove, definitively, that someone playing a professional video game tournament is exerting themselves less than each official Olympic Sport then I'll relent. Period. Fact is that I know that, even at a physical level, there is more physical exertion in professional gaming than with some Olympic Sports.
You are intentionally dodging the question. You must be a politician. And a poor one at that lol
Gaming is either a sport or it isn't. Which one is it? If it is then we are all athletes playing a sport when we are playing a game on our computers. You are saying nothing when stating that sports are more mental than physical. I am fully cognizant that mental psyche plays a huge part in sports. Like wise, no one is denying that a large portion of sporting is defined by competition and physical exertion. Those major components of mental toughness, competition, and physical exertion, however, are present in almost everything we do in life and most of them have nothing at all to do with sports.
So can we do away with the nonsense rhetoric and get to the crux of the matter.
So answer the question, Mr. World Class Athlete Chess player. Is gaming a sport or is it not? Yes or no. If your contention is that it is, then my 7 year old nephew is an athlete, and he is playing a sport when playing his favorite game of Chutes and Ladders in my uncles computer. He is very competitive and exerts himself enormously. I can tell by his focused huffing and puffing and occasional stomping and falling to the ground when things don't go his way.
So is my little nephew an athlete playing a sport now, or does he have to wait until ... oh I don't know, please tell me ... before he can be acknowledged as a world class athlete playing a sport?
P.S: It pleases me to read that you are frantically searching the internet for answers. Please continue searching. That caption brings nothing to the discussion. No one is denying any of that. My question stands, and remains unanswered.
I've asked you multiple times to prove your point. All you're doing is asking me to answer your question which is so cliche and old that it's ridiculous. So YOU answer MY question. Prove to me that gaming is less physically demanding than every sport listed as an Olypmic event. Do that and you win. Don't and you lose. Period. Game over.
ENOUGH!!
This is what comes of posting articles covering flamebait topics. Everyone comes prancing in to declare that they hold the "One True Opinion" about said topic and everyone else just lives in their shadow, and heated diatribe insues. Well guess fucking what, you are both entitled to your opinion, but you don't get to define to the rest of the world what is a sport and what is not. It is not your decision to make. So do the rest of us a favor and stop acting like your opinions are facts.
Honestly I've read previous posts by both of you in the past and you've both seemed reasonable, mature and well grounded. Its nauseating to see you two devolve into such a heated and petty argument over such a trifling subject.
Stoopidest thread on MMORPG and stoopidest responses trying to argue one way or another.
They guy is an ex NFL player having NOTHING to do with his values or rights. He also is NOT a gamer that needs to be heard. He plays games....so do millions.
He needs to shut the hell up and move on...we don't care
Oh look Chris is declaring #GamerGate is over again.
I guess thats why r/KotakuInAction is still gaining members and and has multiple ethics violation threads to be researched each day.
I guess thats why deepfreeze.it has multiple ethics violations updates each week.
Why Jen Frank just got caught for promoting a game without disclosing she was the voice actress for it.
Why Nathan Grayson just got caught again for reviewing the games of his friends without disclosing their relationship.
#GamerGate isn't over by any means, its just grown past outrage and is in full on watchdog mode now.
As for harassment? LOL really, you're still trying to push that schtick. Dude Twitter's partners in the feminist organization Women Action Media released their report on GG last month. Remember? The report that said less than 0.66% of Twitter users affiliated with GG had ever sent a harrassing tweet.
Sorry Chris but if there has been any significant harassment its been from your side. Hell your buddy Randi Harper, CEO of the Online Abuse Prevention Network and programmer for Women Action Media's ggautoblocker has spent the last 72hrs prolifically harassing Anne Rice (Interview With A Vampire).
Or what about the fact the FBI and DHS disclosed the only verifiable and actionable threat since the beginning of GG was the bomb threat called against the GGinDC meet up.
Or Brianna Wu who just got eviscerated for lying in her article at TheMarySue about a District Attorney refusing to investigate harassment against her; only to have that DA release a public statement that she never once contacted his office or law enforcement.
Sorry Chris. I don't think you're a bad guy, but you're seriously on the wrong side of history here. Please, stop letting yourself be used by these professional Patreon victims.
EDIT: According to Anne Rice's Facebook, Leigh Alexander (Anti-GG Fired from Gamasutra) is now also attacking Ms. Rice.
He's just another useful idiot, GG is not over and never will be. Its funny but the fact this site would give this man a mouthpiece is disgusting. Time for me to move on from here if they're gonna be running pieces like this. Welcome to the list of sites I won't give traffic similar to Kotaku. Giving this guy the time of day just shows where this site sits with regards to GG and that's to bad.
Oh look Chris is declaring #GamerGate is over again.
I guess thats why r/KotakuInAction is still gaining members and and has multiple ethics violation threads to be researched each day.
I guess thats why deepfreeze.it has multiple ethics violations updates each week.
Why Jen Frank just got caught for promoting a game without disclosing she was the voice actress for it.
Why Nathan Grayson just got caught again for reviewing the games of his friends without disclosing their relationship.
#GamerGate isn't over by any means, its just grown past outrage and is in full on watchdog mode now.
As for harassment? LOL really, you're still trying to push that schtick. Dude Twitter's partners in the feminist organization Women Action Media released their report on GG last month. Remember? The report that said less than 0.66% of Twitter users affiliated with GG had ever sent a harrassing tweet.
Sorry Chris but if there has been any significant harassment its been from your side. Hell your buddy Randi Harper, CEO of the Online Abuse Prevention Network and programmer for Women Action Media's ggautoblocker has spent the last 72hrs prolifically harassing Anne Rice (Interview With A Vampire).
Or what about the fact the FBI and DHS disclosed the only verifiable and actionable threat since the beginning of GG was the bomb threat called against the GGinDC meet up.
Or Brianna Wu who just got eviscerated for lying in her article at TheMarySue about a District Attorney refusing to investigate harassment against her; only to have that DA release a public statement that she never once contacted his office or law enforcement.
Sorry Chris. I don't think you're a bad guy, but you're seriously on the wrong side of history here. Please, stop letting yourself be used by these professional Patreon victims.
EDIT: According to Anne Rice's Facebook, Leigh Alexander (Anti-GG Fired from Gamasutra) is now also attacking Ms. Rice.
He's just another useful idiot, GG is not over and never will be. Its funny but the fact this site would give this man a mouthpiece is disgusting. Time for me to move on from here if they're gonna be running pieces like this. Welcome to the list of sites I won't give traffic similar to Kotaku. Giving this guy the time of day just shows where this site sits with regards to GG and that's to bad.
If that was true, then we wouldn't be able to discuss his 'statement' in any form. And yes i agree the guy (Kluwe) is an idiot, but he's a paid idiot, and you can be sure that he (Kluwe) was paid to make the statement.
That GG was all about ethics in journalism is something that they have tried and repeatedly failed to divert attention away from, and until journo's or other reviewer types all reveal sponsorship deals or links that may influence their opinion etc. associated with their reviews, it will keep on going. At least now though we can tell who the more honest ones are, because they are stating as a caveat any sponsorship deals they may be involved in when making these reviews.
Gamergate was never a movement all it was was a bunch of harrassing trolls and career buffs trying ot get in on the coat tails of the situation that never existed.
If they wanted to report on something how about reporting on the countless youtube gamer channels that are funded by major corporations that publish who suddenly up and disappear whenever they say anything at all negative about the game publishers themselves or their developers.
They have done that. Harassing trolls? Who did GG harass? Death threats didn't come from GG.
Comments
Did you even listen to the video link or read the thread at all? I am sure you have not because had you done so you would know that I've already responded to every single point made in your post. Doing so would have also saved you from writing that long dissertation of a post. Especially since it added nothing new to the discussion.
Again, sorry to hurt your feelings but NO, you are not playing a sport in the traditional sense of the word, and NO, you are not the world class athlete you imagined yourself to be. You are just a nerd in front of a computer playing what gamers have termed an eSport, or what has been more accurately described as competitive gaming, or electronic video gaming. That really is it in a nutshell.
EDIT: You know what, I don't know why I even bother. If its so important for some of you to be deemed athletes playing a sport, then so be it. I hereby declare you all athletes. Yes, Mr./Miss/Mrs/Jr./toddler/etc Video Gamer, from this point forward, whenever and wherever you play a video game, you will be considered athletes playing a sport. Yay!
/rolls eyes
I think this is more done for legal purposes then because they really believe they are athletes. So that people wanting to become a professional e-sport player has the same change as someone trying to become a profession soccer player, for example when in college, university, etc.
I think e-sports are in a gray area. Car racing is a sport. Car racing behind my computer is not? What if I was in a f1 simulator (the once professional driver use to train) and use that to e-sport with. Does that make it a sport then?
Also a shooter at the moment is not a sport, but what when we start to use the occulas rift in combination with the Virtuix omni? Would playing the same shooter make it a sport? So yes I think at one point e-sport might be a sport and those praticing it might be athletes. Not at the moment though.
In wrote a note to my boss this morning about needing more rails for my art displays.
I'm an author now.
I'm a MUDder. I play MUDs.
Current: Dragonrealms
Smile
Several false premises leading to a false conclusion. E-sports, whatever they are, are not Sports.
Gamergate was never a movement all it was was a bunch of harrassing trolls and career buffs trying ot get in on the coat tails of the situation that never existed.
If they wanted to report on something how about reporting on the countless youtube gamer channels that are funded by major corporations that publish who suddenly up and disappear whenever they say anything at all negative about the game publishers themselves or their developers.
Case in point, Dontain. Disappeared after he spoke badly about NCSoft and the "Precious" GW2 and their developers and there their money was going and how they were handling their temporary items in the shop and some content troubles.
Completely disappeared off the map.
That's what gamergates conversation should have been about instead we get these crazy " Neo feminists" like Sarkeesian trying to further their careers acting like she's a gamer when she's the farthest thing from it.
I've asked you multiple times to prove your point. All you're doing is asking me to answer your question which is so cliche and old that it's ridiculous. So YOU answer MY question. Prove to me that gaming is less physically demanding than every sport listed as an Olypmic event. Do that and you win. Don't and you lose. Period. Game over.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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How DARE you inject logic into this argument!!!
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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Stoopidest thread on MMORPG and stoopidest responses trying to argue one way or another.
They guy is an ex NFL player having NOTHING to do with his values or rights. He also is NOT a gamer that needs to be heard. He plays games....so do millions.
He needs to shut the hell up and move on...we don't care
He's just another useful idiot, GG is not over and never will be. Its funny but the fact this site would give this man a mouthpiece is disgusting. Time for me to move on from here if they're gonna be running pieces like this. Welcome to the list of sites I won't give traffic similar to Kotaku. Giving this guy the time of day just shows where this site sits with regards to GG and that's to bad.
If that was true, then we wouldn't be able to discuss his 'statement' in any form. And yes i agree the guy (Kluwe) is an idiot, but he's a paid idiot, and you can be sure that he (Kluwe) was paid to make the statement.
That GG was all about ethics in journalism is something that they have tried and repeatedly failed to divert attention away from, and until journo's or other reviewer types all reveal sponsorship deals or links that may influence their opinion etc. associated with their reviews, it will keep on going. At least now though we can tell who the more honest ones are, because they are stating as a caveat any sponsorship deals they may be involved in when making these reviews.
They have done that. Harassing trolls? Who did GG harass? Death threats didn't come from GG.