Originally posted by sludgebeard Honestly, I cant see why anyone still agrees that solo is better. Every single MMO that has been released and focused on providing 90% solo content and 10% group content has just not done well. Like I was looking at screenshots of SWTOR a minute ago and thinking to myself. Damn, this game world looks amazing. Then I went back and looked at the classes and im thinking, "Hey you know what, it not SWG, but these are a really cool mix of classes, the mechanics for all of them read like a heroic Star Wars character!" But then I go and look at videos of the group content and what is it? Its watered down solo gameplay with text choice options based off a damn coin flip! WHY?!Thats to me where the problems begin for all these new MMO's, they make it a solo-game first and a group game second. Its so fundamentally wrong and confusing. There is a giant world, you and thousands are connecting to, yet they focus on your personal experiance and no one else. Its like opening up the biggest new nightclub in town, and inviting everyone to come out. But when they get to the club theres rails separating the dancefloor, so everyone has to boogie by themselves until they walk outside for a smoke break.Think about that, when your playing in a socially inclined setting and all of a sudden the time you interact with others is only a 10% of your time out, are you really going to wanna come back to that nightclub?I mean you could just stay home, save yourself the 15$ entrance fee and not ever have to be put into that awkward social scenario ever again.
First off I started playing MMO's in 1999 with Asheron's Call, probably been playing longer then 75% of the posters here. Second of all, AC was a very solo centric game and was amazing for it's influence in my perspective on MMO gaming. I had a chance to play EQ1 with some of my friends but the thought of camping a rare spawn or grinding a static spot over and over for XP did not fit my Pen & Paper RPG background. Plus it required more then you to accomplish anything remotely fun. Which back to my original background and my new found status as a parent wasn't an appeal to me. Being able to play a game, especially an RPG on my OWN time was what led me to AC and the forced grouping aspect of EQ1 was what led the death knell in my beloved Dungeons and Dragons P&P RPG's. Not enough time and too much organization to make it worthy of further investment. What I loved about AC was I could do 99% of the game solo and yet still strive for that online partnership most have.
Which brings me to my final point, It isn't the solo aspect that has destroyed MMO's (well TBH they are 100X more profitable and accessible now but I digress) it is the fact that almost everyone of them are basically carbon copies of the same paradigm we've been playing. Linear, quick leveling, quest grinding, endgame centric MMO. We haven't truly experienced a revolutionary step, let alone an evolutionary step in MMO design. Look into your heart OP, I bet you don't like MMO's not for their lack of social accommodation but for the reasons I think most everyone misses.
So in conclusion. SOLO play is not inherently bad, what is bad is same'y style game design.
Christ. How many times does it need to be said that there was no forced grouping in EQ1 other than raiding.. which is the case in EVERY MMORPG out there. You could absolutely solo, all the way to cap even in EQ1.
Originally posted by Kaledren You are wasting your time. The crowd here is mainly clearly anti-group play, nor really seem to get what made MMORPG's unique and stand out from the rest of the genres out there.
And anyone who says they are grown and don't have time to play shouldn't be playing, or trying to play MMORPG's. This is why there are console games and the such. For easy and quick entertainment fixes.
I'm sure your disapproval on how I spend my money and time will affect my behaviour from here on out.
...... lolwut?
It shows what PvP games are really all about, and no, it's not about more realism and immersion. It's about cowards hiding behind a screen to they can bully other defenseless players without any risk of direct retaliation like there would be if they acted like asshats in "real life". -Jean-Luc_Picard
Life itself is a game. So why shouldn't your game be ruined? - justmemyselfandi
Some days you want to go to the Sports Bar, drink beer with your friends and talk or watch 'Sports' (Football / Baseball / Basketball / whatever).
Some days you'd rather have a gathering at your place with the BBQ at the backyard and your TV on with whatever Sports.
Some days you'd rather watch the game in private with your family.
Gasp! It is as if people have a CHOICE now and they can play to their preference!
You like forced grouping? Play games that does that.
You like solo-focused gameplay? Play games that does that.
The only 'problem' I see is your insistence that people like what you like and play games that you like.
Hey dude. It's MMORPG. Not SOLORPG.
It's okay to have prefrences dude. But im not going to a Football game stadium to watch 90% of it on a TV and 10% turn my head and look in real life.
Another example: I go to the races, They call it racing !! Now 90% of the time the drivers are just walking and talking and the last 10% they race. Seems like FALSE advertising to me.
Originally posted by Kaledren You are wasting your time. The crowd here is mainly clearly anti-group play, nor really seem to get what made MMORPG's unique and stand out from the rest of the genres out there.
And anyone who says they are grown and don't have time to play shouldn't be playing, or trying to play MMORPG's. This is why there are console games and the such. For easy and quick entertainment fixes.
I'm sure your disapproval on how I spend my money and time will affect my behaviour from here on out.
...... lolwut?
I don't give a shit how you spend your money. My issue is with those who come into a particular genre of games, play, then whine to change it to something they are more familiar with, not it wasn't meant to be, hence why it was different in the first place.
It would be like me, having played soccer, trying American football, then complaining that they shouldn't use hands, but only their feet and heads, take down the field goal posts and replace them with two netted goals.
If I want quick fix fun, I play FPS games, or something other than a MMORPG.
In SWTOR, you can literally log in, turn off your chat bar and play the entire game without ever talking to anyone, EVER. That's not a multiplayer game, that's a solo game. Now they're raping people dry of their money with the cartel market and it's ridiculous. I also find it somewhat insulting to feed on people's impulse buying.
Counter-Strike is more of a multipayer game than SWTOR is. At least they don't try to be something they're not.
and yet TOR made $200M+ in 2013 ...
and talking to others in a game is way over-rated. Just play TOR as a single player game. Problem solved.
NOT SWTOR !! LOLOLOLLOLOLLLOLLLOLOLOLOLLOLOL
EA AS A WHOLE MADE 200 mil.
Question for everyone and this so called great mmo their playing.
How come FF XIV ARR is better then SWTOR in every way. SWTOR had the bigger budget. SWTOR technically didnt fail. Now I know what your thinking, onlyu fanboys will play, well, if thats the case then why did the original XIV get shut down.
Maybe it's not the size of your wallett that determines how much fun you have. And if it does, find a new hobby,
Originally posted by Kaledren You are wasting your time. The crowd here is mainly clearly anti-group play, nor really seem to get what made MMORPG's unique and stand out from the rest of the genres out there.
And anyone who says they are grown and don't have time to play shouldn't be playing, or trying to play MMORPG's. This is why there are console games and the such. For easy and quick entertainment fixes.
I'm sure your disapproval on how I spend my money and time will affect my behaviour from here on out.
...... lolwut?
I don't give a shit how you spend your money. My issue is with those who come into a particular genre of games, play, then whine to change it to something they are more familiar with, not it wasn't meant to be, hence why it was different in the first place. It would be like me, having played soccer, trying American football, then complaining that they shouldn't use hands, but only their feet and heads, take down the field goal posts and replace them with two netted goals. If I want quick fix fun, I play FPS games, or something other than a MMORPG.
Last I checked, baseball evolved out of cricket. Rugby was evolved into 'American Football'.
As long as those who want to change are willing to speak with their wallets, changes will happen.
It shows what PvP games are really all about, and no, it's not about more realism and immersion. It's about cowards hiding behind a screen to they can bully other defenseless players without any risk of direct retaliation like there would be if they acted like asshats in "real life". -Jean-Luc_Picard
Life itself is a game. So why shouldn't your game be ruined? - justmemyselfandi
How come FF XIV ARR is better then SWTOR in every way. SWTOR had the bigger budget. SWTOR technically didnt fail. Now I know what your thinking, onlyu fanboys will play, well, if thats the case then why did the original XIV get shut down.
Maybe it's not the size of your wallett that determines how much fun you have. And if it does, find a new hobby,
FF XIV ARR has an awesome story in that it has the name 'Final Fantasy' and the story actually makes some type of sense.
But compared to SWTOR or heck even 'Raptor army / A Dragon's girlfriend being magic water' WoW, FF XIV ARR has a terrible story.
It shows what PvP games are really all about, and no, it's not about more realism and immersion. It's about cowards hiding behind a screen to they can bully other defenseless players without any risk of direct retaliation like there would be if they acted like asshats in "real life". -Jean-Luc_Picard
Life itself is a game. So why shouldn't your game be ruined? - justmemyselfandi
First off I started playing MMO's in 1999 with Asheron's Call, probably been playing longer then 75% of the posters here.
This ^^.
I started on my first MMORPG about oh....when FF XIV ARR launched. I have every class/job and crafting to 50, coils complete and full ilvl 130 gear for everyone. Still more content then SWTOR.
A year and a half.......also have all 8 classes to 60 in SWTOR as well.......So yeah dude, I don't think it's how long you been playing, it's more of SKILL.
So yeah dude, saying you been playing for years is childish. It's like your one of those people who have to have a, "Mines bigger then yours" kinda ordeal.
How come FF XIV ARR is better then SWTOR in every way. SWTOR had the bigger budget. SWTOR technically didnt fail. Now I know what your thinking, onlyu fanboys will play, well, if thats the case then why did the original XIV get shut down.
Maybe it's not the size of your wallett that determines how much fun you have. And if it does, find a new hobby,
FF XIV ARR has an awesome story in that it has the name 'Final Fantasy' and the story actually makes some type of sense.
But compared to SWTOR or heck even 'Raptor army / A Dragon's girlfriend being magic water' WoW, FF XIV ARR has a terrible story.
Yet, we still get more content, quality content, and the dev team TALKS to us. I see what your saying though.
Now i wouldent say both stories suck or are bad in any way.
SWTOR just DELIVERS it better then anyone else. I think the 7 mill people playing WoW have both SWTOR and FF beat on what story people like lol.
Seems like ever since SWTOR came around, kids cant read anymore. They have to have it spoken to them. Kid's these days are really stupid for some reason. Hell, im 30 and we were never this dumb as kids.
Do you know on average, a child will read a book once every 5 years, maybe, unless its forced for school.
Originally posted by Kaledren Originally posted by JohnP0100 Originally posted by Kaledren You are wasting your time. The crowd here is mainly clearly anti-group play, nor really seem to get what made MMORPG's unique and stand out from the rest of the genres out there.
And anyone who says they are grown and don't have time to play shouldn't be playing, or trying to play MMORPG's. This is why there are console games and the such. For easy and quick entertainment fixes.
I'm sure your disapproval on how I spend my money and time will affect my behaviour from here on out.
...... lolwut?
I don't give a shit how you spend your money. My issue is with those who come into a particular genre of games, play, then whine to change it to something they are more familiar with, not it wasn't meant to be, hence why it was different in the first place. It would be like me, having played soccer, trying American football, then complaining that they shouldn't use hands, but only their feet and heads, take down the field goal posts and replace them with two netted goals. If I want quick fix fun, I play FPS games, or something other than a MMORPG.
Last I checked, baseball evolved out of cricket. Rugby was evolved into 'American Football'.
As long as those who want to change are willing to speak with their wallets, changes will happen.
Maybe so. But how many followers of those evolved sports rant for their parent support they evolved from to go away completely? And deem them terrible?Despite many still enjoying them.
If Solo Gameplay was actually difficult then I would have no problem with it.
If I went into a Solo-Focused MMO, and I had actually had difficult battles the required as much thought and trial and error as a Singleplayer game, then Yes, I would LOVE solo gameplay.
Notice how the characters health never dips below half health? Wheres the risk? Wheres the Challenge? There is none!! Its just kill mob 1, kill mob 2, rinse and repeat, its boring and its not fun, unless you are the type of person who simply likes reward with no risk, no challenge.
And if thats you, thats fine with me. But dont tell me that's a good strategy for development for all future MMO's. There should be more than one way to play an MMO and progress and there should be more challenging Solo MMO's if thats what they are going to make.
So heres my updated lists of wants/needs:
- Group content (At least 50/50)
- Challenging Solo Content (Even at level 1 there should be some sort of challenge)
- Less emphasis on Mega-servers/Cutting development corners
- Less F2P marketing ploys/tactics that divide communities.
Where are the contrasting youtube videos of level 4 gameplay in other MMORPGs threatening players with death?
Are you implying mega-servers are a corner-cut? It's much easier to simply copy-pasta your servers to support smaller chunks of players than to create a mega-server.
You realize the industry doesn't cater to any individual's list of demands, but the general desires of the market at large, right?
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Question for everyone and this so called great mmo their playing.
How come FF XIV ARR is better then SWTOR in every way. SWTOR had the bigger budget. SWTOR technically didnt fail. Now I know what your thinking, onlyu fanboys will play, well, if thats the case then why did the original XIV get shut down.
Maybe it's not the size of your wallett that determines how much fun you have. And if it does, find a new hobby,
I don't understand this message at all. Are you trying to say that bigger doesn't necessarily mean better?
Originally posted by Kaledren You are wasting your time. The crowd here is mainly clearly anti-group play, nor really seem to get what made MMORPG's unique and stand out from the rest of the genres out there.
And anyone who says they are grown and don't have time to play shouldn't be playing, or trying to play MMORPG's. This is why there are console games and the such. For easy and quick entertainment fixes.
MMOs stood out because you could play with any number of people in a world and experience the game with them at the same time. Which you can do in SW;ToR, I don't see the issue. As long as you are talking, killing stuff, grouping, getting loot, you are doing what you did in EQ. Granted the pace is much faster (due to no downtime), but the only difference I see is when you are in a dungeon you don't see the other groups and they can't run trains into you/defeat the boss, or help you with the boss. 2 of these are griefing measures i'm glad are gone, the other is helpful but not really a problem.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Originally posted by Kaledren You are wasting your time. The crowd here is mainly clearly anti-group play, nor really seem to get what made MMORPG's unique and stand out from the rest of the genres out there.
And anyone who says they are grown and don't have time to play shouldn't be playing, or trying to play MMORPG's. This is why there are console games and the such. For easy and quick entertainment fixes.
I don't give a shit how you spend your money. My issue is with those who come into a particular genre of games, play, then whine to change it to something they are more familiar with, not it wasn't meant to be, hence why it was different in the first place. It would be like me, having played soccer, trying American football, then complaining that they shouldn't use hands, but only their feet and heads, take down the field goal posts and replace them with two netted goals. If I want quick fix fun, I play FPS games, or something other than a MMORPG.
Couldn't the same be said about people wanting the new direction to shift toward their own preferences? That's just the thing isn't it? Everyone wants everything to bend toward their preference.
Most people aren't anti-group, they're anti "forced". Grouping isn't the issue, forcing people to play a certain way is.
People equate that as well as challenge to community, hence they think it's the only way to achieve that, simply based on what they're used to (EQ, FFXI), judging by your posts, you're one of them.
Contrary to this belief, there are other ways, to some better ways, yet that requires a grand scope (SWG as an example).
ANyway, to the point... There is a segment of posters here, that want everyone playing their way, that's the issue.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Question for everyone and this so called great mmo their playing.
How come FF XIV ARR is better then SWTOR in every way. SWTOR had the bigger budget. SWTOR technically didnt fail. Now I know what your thinking, onlyu fanboys will play, well, if thats the case then why did the original XIV get shut down.
Maybe it's not the size of your wallett that determines how much fun you have. And if it does, find a new hobby,
I don't understand this message at all. Are you trying to say that bigger doesn't necessarily mean better?
Oh, come on, Grimal. You're addressing a guy that just claimed that EA as a whole only makes 200 million a year. I'd be concerned about you if you DID understand him.
Try earning almost 900 million dollars per quarter, and several billion a year instead of 200 million.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
Couldn't the same be said about people wanting the new direction to shift toward their own preferences? That's just the thing isn't it? Everyone wants everything to bend toward their preference.
Most people aren't anti-group, they're anti "forced". Grouping isn't the issue, forcing people to play a certain way is.
People equate that as well as challenge to community, hence they think it's the only way to achieve that, simply based on what they're used to (EQ, FFXI), judging by your posts, you're one of them.
Contrary to this belief, there are other ways, to some better ways, yet that requires a grand scope (SWG as an example).
ANyway, to the point... There is a segment of posters here, that want everyone playing their way, that's the issue.
This.
Actually there's forced grouping in today's MMOs if you want to experience all the content. You just have the option to do it or not.
Couldn't the same be said about people wanting the new direction to shift toward their own preferences? That's just the thing isn't it? Everyone wants everything to bend toward their preference.
Most people aren't anti-group, they're anti "forced". Grouping isn't the issue, forcing people to play a certain way is.
People equate that as well as challenge to community, hence they think it's the only way to achieve that, simply based on what they're used to (EQ, FFXI), judging by your posts, you're one of them.
Contrary to this belief, there are other ways, to some better ways, yet that requires a grand scope (SWG as an example).
ANyway, to the point... There is a segment of posters here, that want everyone playing their way, that's the issue.
This.
Actually there's forced grouping in today's MMOs if you want to experience all the content. You just have the option to do it or not.
"Forced Grouping" is a Forum term that people made up, have you ever seen a design document for a Video Game that says "Forced Grouping"?
No you havent because it doesnt exist to game developers.
No MMO developers sit around and go:
"Ok Steve, what should the features of our new MMO be?"
"O I think we should have an open world game, with sandbox elements...and of course FORCED GROUPING!"
Its not even a term that applies anywhere outside of this little circle you see here. Seriously let me show you.
The only time you will see the term is on a forum, literally no where else, and this needs to stop. No one in EQ forced you to group, you know why!?
Because no one is forcing you to buy the game! How can they FORCE you to group, if you willing bought the game, knowing exactly what type of product your getting? Your paying to either Co-operate or Compete, thats it.
If you buy an MMO, and it is grouped focused, you dont have to play it, no one is forcing you to do anything, thats the gameplay mechanics.
No one ever says Call of Duty Multiplayer has "Forced Grouping" because the objective of the gameplay is that multiple people compete for an objective. In an MMO you CO-OPERATE for an Objective, no one is forcing that.
Remember when players weren't so invested in making other players to toe the line and Play the Game Right (capital R)? Where Right is a moving target, modified at will dependent on speaker?
I don't either. I'm pretty sure that time never existed. I'm certain that it hasn't existed since '97.
But tolerance is always better to preach than its converse.
Couldn't the same be said about people wanting the new direction to shift toward their own preferences? That's just the thing isn't it? Everyone wants everything to bend toward their preference.
Most people aren't anti-group, they're anti "forced". Grouping isn't the issue, forcing people to play a certain way is.
People equate that as well as challenge to community, hence they think it's the only way to achieve that, simply based on what they're used to (EQ, FFXI), judging by your posts, you're one of them.
Contrary to this belief, there are other ways, to some better ways, yet that requires a grand scope (SWG as an example).
ANyway, to the point... There is a segment of posters here, that want everyone playing their way, that's the issue.
This.
Actually there's forced grouping in today's MMOs if you want to experience all the content. You just have the option to do it or not.
"Forced Grouping" is a Forum term that people made up, have you ever seen a design document for a Video Game that says "Forced Grouping"?
No you havent because it doesnt exist to game developers.
No MMO developers sit around and go:
"Ok Steve, what should the features of our new MMO be?"
"O I think we should have an open world game, with sandbox elements...and of course FORCED GROUPING!"
Its not even a term that applies anywhere outside of this little circle you see here. Seriously let me show you.
The only time you will see the term is on a forum, literally no where else, and this needs to stop. No one in EQ forced you to group, you know why!?
Because no one is forcing you to buy the game! How can they FORCE you to group, if you willing bought the game, knowing exactly what type of product your getting? Your paying to either Co-operate or Compete, thats it.
If you buy an MMO, and it is grouped focused, you dont have to play it, no one is forcing you to do anything, thats the gameplay mechanics.
No one ever says Call of Duty Multiplayer has "Forced Grouping" because the objective of the gameplay is that multiple people compete for an objective. In an MMO you CO-OPERATE for an Objective, no one is forcing that.
So what exactly are you asking for, partner? If its not "forced grouping" then what? Because according to this post we are all in agreement in that we should all have the option to play the way we want to play.
I think we are all well aware that the game won't say "forced grouping" on the box. But "forced grouping" will be determined by the game play if nothing can be accomplished without a group, which is exactly what you are advocating. So please tell us again ... What exactly are you asking for, if not "force grouping?"
Quit the word play and get to the point. Are you asking for "forced grouping," or are you advocating for all of us to have the option to play as we so choose?
Because no one is forcing you to buy the game! How can they FORCE you to group, if you willing bought the game, knowing exactly what type of product your getting? Your paying to either Co-operate or Compete, thats it.
If you buy an MMO, and it is NOT grouped focused, you dont have to play it, no one is forcing you to do anything, thats the gameplay mechanics.
Couldn't the same be said about people wanting the new direction to shift toward their own preferences? That's just the thing isn't it? Everyone wants everything to bend toward their preference.
Most people aren't anti-group, they're anti "forced". Grouping isn't the issue, forcing people to play a certain way is.
People equate that as well as challenge to community, hence they think it's the only way to achieve that, simply based on what they're used to (EQ, FFXI), judging by your posts, you're one of them.
Contrary to this belief, there are other ways, to some better ways, yet that requires a grand scope (SWG as an example).
ANyway, to the point... There is a segment of posters here, that want everyone playing their way, that's the issue.
This.
Actually there's forced grouping in today's MMOs if you want to experience all the content. You just have the option to do it or not.
"Forced Grouping" is a Forum term that people made up, have you ever seen a design document for a Video Game that says "Forced Grouping"?
No you havent because it doesnt exist to game developers.
No MMO developers sit around and go:
"Ok Steve, what should the features of our new MMO be?"
"O I think we should have an open world game, with sandbox elements...and of course FORCED GROUPING!"
Its not even a term that applies anywhere outside of this little circle you see here. Seriously let me show you.
The only time you will see the term is on a forum, literally no where else, and this needs to stop. No one in EQ forced you to group, you know why!?
Because no one is forcing you to buy the game! How can they FORCE you to group, if you willing bought the game, knowing exactly what type of product your getting? Your paying to either Co-operate or Compete, thats it.
If you buy an MMO, and it is grouped focused, you dont have to play it, no one is forcing you to do anything, thats the gameplay mechanics.
No one ever says Call of Duty Multiplayer has "Forced Grouping" because the objective of the gameplay is that multiple people compete for an objective. In an MMO you CO-OPERATE for an Objective, no one is forcing that.
There's a huge difference between literal and figurative speak. I typically assume most posting here understand those differences. Other than that..What Laced said above in response to this..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
But tolerance is always better to preach than its converse.
Why? There are so many games out there that I do not tolerate any game that I even dislike a little.
and i don't believe there is "forced grouping" ... just like there is no "forced solo".
If i don't like a grouping focused game .. well, I can always find something else to play. It is a free market. I don't need to see the end of every game.
But tolerance is always better to preach than its converse.
Why? There are so many games out there that I do not tolerate any game that I even dislike a little.
and i don't believe there is "forced grouping" ... just like there is no "forced solo".
If i don't like a grouping focused game .. well, I can always find something else to play. It is a free market. I don't need to see the end of every game.
(Red) Well you just summed up the main reason behind humanity never really attaining nice things... That's a topic for another website though:). He didn't come off as saying play what you dislike, more so... respect other peoples options (or in the end.. opinion).
Anyway, I don't think anyone really believes they're forced to play games, these topics basically boil down to "this is what an MMORPG should be"... Without that angle there's no reason to say anything about forced grouping. Yet these discussions always devolve into such hardline stances being taken.
I don't know how else to present it, it seems like there's a segment of posters who think they own or are owed the genre. I've seen it many times with other things, like punk rock, hardcore, metal, etc... the ultra purist, hardline, who thinks they own it, in turn judge who can partake, most of those types leave that behind in their 20's though..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
But tolerance is always better to preach than its converse.
Why? There are so many games out there that I do not tolerate any game that I even dislike a little.
and i don't believe there is "forced grouping" ... just like there is no "forced solo".
If i don't like a grouping focused game .. well, I can always find something else to play. It is a free market. I don't need to see the end of every game.
Ok, so we are all in a agreement of the obvious ... and that is that there can be no "forced anything" simply because we can chose whether to play it or not to play it. Thank you for enlightening us of the obvious. Now we can all go back to playing the games we want to play, and not play those we don't.
I hereby declare this thread the grand prize winner of the "Wast of Space Thread."
Comments
First off I started playing MMO's in 1999 with Asheron's Call, probably been playing longer then 75% of the posters here. Second of all, AC was a very solo centric game and was amazing for it's influence in my perspective on MMO gaming. I had a chance to play EQ1 with some of my friends but the thought of camping a rare spawn or grinding a static spot over and over for XP did not fit my Pen & Paper RPG background. Plus it required more then you to accomplish anything remotely fun. Which back to my original background and my new found status as a parent wasn't an appeal to me. Being able to play a game, especially an RPG on my OWN time was what led me to AC and the forced grouping aspect of EQ1 was what led the death knell in my beloved Dungeons and Dragons P&P RPG's. Not enough time and too much organization to make it worthy of further investment. What I loved about AC was I could do 99% of the game solo and yet still strive for that online partnership most have.
Which brings me to my final point, It isn't the solo aspect that has destroyed MMO's (well TBH they are 100X more profitable and accessible now but I digress) it is the fact that almost everyone of them are basically carbon copies of the same paradigm we've been playing. Linear, quick leveling, quest grinding, endgame centric MMO. We haven't truly experienced a revolutionary step, let alone an evolutionary step in MMO design. Look into your heart OP, I bet you don't like MMO's not for their lack of social accommodation but for the reasons I think most everyone misses.
So in conclusion. SOLO play is not inherently bad, what is bad is same'y style game design.
Christ. How many times does it need to be said that there was no forced grouping in EQ1 other than raiding.. which is the case in EVERY MMORPG out there. You could absolutely solo, all the way to cap even in EQ1.I'm sure your disapproval on how I spend my money and time will affect my behaviour from here on out.
...... lolwut?
It shows what PvP games are really all about, and no, it's not about more realism and immersion. It's about cowards hiding behind a screen to they can bully other defenseless players without any risk of direct retaliation like there would be if they acted like asshats in "real life". -Jean-Luc_Picard
Life itself is a game. So why shouldn't your game be ruined? - justmemyselfandi
Hey dude. It's MMORPG. Not SOLORPG.
It's okay to have prefrences dude. But im not going to a Football game stadium to watch 90% of it on a TV and 10% turn my head and look in real life.
Another example: I go to the races, They call it racing !! Now 90% of the time the drivers are just walking and talking and the last 10% they race. Seems like FALSE advertising to me.
Remember, it's MMORPG, not SOLORPG.
I'm sure your disapproval on how I spend my money and time will affect my behaviour from here on out.
...... lolwut?
I don't give a shit how you spend your money. My issue is with those who come into a particular genre of games, play, then whine to change it to something they are more familiar with, not it wasn't meant to be, hence why it was different in the first place.It would be like me, having played soccer, trying American football, then complaining that they shouldn't use hands, but only their feet and heads, take down the field goal posts and replace them with two netted goals.
If I want quick fix fun, I play FPS games, or something other than a MMORPG.
NOT SWTOR !! LOLOLOLLOLOLLLOLLLOLOLOLOLLOLOL
EA AS A WHOLE MADE 200 mil.
Question for everyone and this so called great mmo their playing.
How come FF XIV ARR is better then SWTOR in every way. SWTOR had the bigger budget. SWTOR technically didnt fail. Now I know what your thinking, onlyu fanboys will play, well, if thats the case then why did the original XIV get shut down.
Maybe it's not the size of your wallett that determines how much fun you have. And if it does, find a new hobby,
Last I checked, baseball evolved out of cricket. Rugby was evolved into 'American Football'.
As long as those who want to change are willing to speak with their wallets, changes will happen.
It shows what PvP games are really all about, and no, it's not about more realism and immersion. It's about cowards hiding behind a screen to they can bully other defenseless players without any risk of direct retaliation like there would be if they acted like asshats in "real life". -Jean-Luc_Picard
Life itself is a game. So why shouldn't your game be ruined? - justmemyselfandi
FF XIV ARR has an awesome story in that it has the name 'Final Fantasy' and the story actually makes some type of sense.
But compared to SWTOR or heck even 'Raptor army / A Dragon's girlfriend being magic water' WoW, FF XIV ARR has a terrible story.
It shows what PvP games are really all about, and no, it's not about more realism and immersion. It's about cowards hiding behind a screen to they can bully other defenseless players without any risk of direct retaliation like there would be if they acted like asshats in "real life". -Jean-Luc_Picard
Life itself is a game. So why shouldn't your game be ruined? - justmemyselfandi
This ^^.
I started on my first MMORPG about oh....when FF XIV ARR launched. I have every class/job and crafting to 50, coils complete and full ilvl 130 gear for everyone. Still more content then SWTOR.
A year and a half.......also have all 8 classes to 60 in SWTOR as well.......So yeah dude, I don't think it's how long you been playing, it's more of SKILL.
So yeah dude, saying you been playing for years is childish. It's like your one of those people who have to have a, "Mines bigger then yours" kinda ordeal.
Yet, we still get more content, quality content, and the dev team TALKS to us. I see what your saying though.
Now i wouldent say both stories suck or are bad in any way.
SWTOR just DELIVERS it better then anyone else. I think the 7 mill people playing WoW have both SWTOR and FF beat on what story people like lol.
Seems like ever since SWTOR came around, kids cant read anymore. They have to have it spoken to them. Kid's these days are really stupid for some reason. Hell, im 30 and we were never this dumb as kids.
Do you know on average, a child will read a book once every 5 years, maybe, unless its forced for school.
Just sad.
I'm sure your disapproval on how I spend my money and time will affect my behaviour from here on out.
...... lolwut?
I don't give a shit how you spend your money. My issue is with those who come into a particular genre of games, play, then whine to change it to something they are more familiar with, not it wasn't meant to be, hence why it was different in the first place. It would be like me, having played soccer, trying American football, then complaining that they shouldn't use hands, but only their feet and heads, take down the field goal posts and replace them with two netted goals. If I want quick fix fun, I play FPS games, or something other than a MMORPG.Last I checked, baseball evolved out of cricket. Rugby was evolved into 'American Football'.
As long as those who want to change are willing to speak with their wallets, changes will happen.
Maybe so. But how many followers of those evolved sports rant for their parent support they evolved from to go away completely? And deem them terrible?Despite many still enjoying them."What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I don't understand this message at all. Are you trying to say that bigger doesn't necessarily mean better?
MMOs stood out because you could play with any number of people in a world and experience the game with them at the same time. Which you can do in SW;ToR, I don't see the issue. As long as you are talking, killing stuff, grouping, getting loot, you are doing what you did in EQ. Granted the pace is much faster (due to no downtime), but the only difference I see is when you are in a dungeon you don't see the other groups and they can't run trains into you/defeat the boss, or help you with the boss. 2 of these are griefing measures i'm glad are gone, the other is helpful but not really a problem.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Couldn't the same be said about people wanting the new direction to shift toward their own preferences? That's just the thing isn't it? Everyone wants everything to bend toward their preference.
Most people aren't anti-group, they're anti "forced". Grouping isn't the issue, forcing people to play a certain way is.
People equate that as well as challenge to community, hence they think it's the only way to achieve that, simply based on what they're used to (EQ, FFXI), judging by your posts, you're one of them.
Contrary to this belief, there are other ways, to some better ways, yet that requires a grand scope (SWG as an example).
ANyway, to the point... There is a segment of posters here, that want everyone playing their way, that's the issue.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Oh, come on, Grimal. You're addressing a guy that just claimed that EA as a whole only makes 200 million a year. I'd be concerned about you if you DID understand him.
As for EA's earnings, Mr Dodo: http://investor.ea.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=910982
Try earning almost 900 million dollars per quarter, and several billion a year instead of 200 million.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
This.
Actually there's forced grouping in today's MMOs if you want to experience all the content. You just have the option to do it or not.
"Forced Grouping" is a Forum term that people made up, have you ever seen a design document for a Video Game that says "Forced Grouping"?
No you havent because it doesnt exist to game developers.
No MMO developers sit around and go:
"Ok Steve, what should the features of our new MMO be?"
"O I think we should have an open world game, with sandbox elements...and of course FORCED GROUPING!"
Its not even a term that applies anywhere outside of this little circle you see here. Seriously let me show you.
https://www.google.com/#q=forced+grouping
The only time you will see the term is on a forum, literally no where else, and this needs to stop. No one in EQ forced you to group, you know why!?
Because no one is forcing you to buy the game! How can they FORCE you to group, if you willing bought the game, knowing exactly what type of product your getting? Your paying to either Co-operate or Compete, thats it.
If you buy an MMO, and it is grouped focused, you dont have to play it, no one is forcing you to do anything, thats the gameplay mechanics.
No one ever says Call of Duty Multiplayer has "Forced Grouping" because the objective of the gameplay is that multiple people compete for an objective. In an MMO you CO-OPERATE for an Objective, no one is forcing that.
so? It is not like MMOs need to be massive anymore ... so may be that applies to MMORPGs too.
Remember when players weren't so invested in making other players to toe the line and Play the Game Right (capital R)? Where Right is a moving target, modified at will dependent on speaker?
I don't either. I'm pretty sure that time never existed. I'm certain that it hasn't existed since '97.
But tolerance is always better to preach than its converse.
So what exactly are you asking for, partner? If its not "forced grouping" then what? Because according to this post we are all in agreement in that we should all have the option to play the way we want to play.
I think we are all well aware that the game won't say "forced grouping" on the box. But "forced grouping" will be determined by the game play if nothing can be accomplished without a group, which is exactly what you are advocating. So please tell us again ... What exactly are you asking for, if not "force grouping?"
Quit the word play and get to the point. Are you asking for "forced grouping," or are you advocating for all of us to have the option to play as we so choose?
Which one is it?
Oh and btw .... right back at ya, buddy.
There's a huge difference between literal and figurative speak. I typically assume most posting here understand those differences. Other than that..What Laced said above in response to this..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Why? There are so many games out there that I do not tolerate any game that I even dislike a little.
and i don't believe there is "forced grouping" ... just like there is no "forced solo".
If i don't like a grouping focused game .. well, I can always find something else to play. It is a free market. I don't need to see the end of every game.
(Red) Well you just summed up the main reason behind humanity never really attaining nice things... That's a topic for another website though:). He didn't come off as saying play what you dislike, more so... respect other peoples options (or in the end.. opinion).
Anyway, I don't think anyone really believes they're forced to play games, these topics basically boil down to "this is what an MMORPG should be"... Without that angle there's no reason to say anything about forced grouping. Yet these discussions always devolve into such hardline stances being taken.
I don't know how else to present it, it seems like there's a segment of posters who think they own or are owed the genre. I've seen it many times with other things, like punk rock, hardcore, metal, etc... the ultra purist, hardline, who thinks they own it, in turn judge who can partake, most of those types leave that behind in their 20's though..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Ok, so we are all in a agreement of the obvious ... and that is that there can be no "forced anything" simply because we can chose whether to play it or not to play it. Thank you for enlightening us of the obvious. Now we can all go back to playing the games we want to play, and not play those we don't.
I hereby declare this thread the grand prize winner of the "Wast of Space Thread."
/smh