Most wanted feature in a "Sandbox" MMO?

TheeLord

Simple Q, What is your most wanted feature in a sandbox MMO?  What other games have you played and wish they had xyz feature?

Distopia

TBH one feature no matter what it is, really doesn't make much difference, I want a number of features that come together to create something along the lines of a modern SWG. A game that has many approaches, for all kinds of different players, all intertwined to create a deep community driven game like SWG was.

TheeLord

I loved SWG also, really the only land-based Sandbox MMO which had sticking power with me.  Assuming a game similar to SWG, what feature would you like to see changed or like to see most in that game?

Distopia

Originally posted by TheeLord
I loved SWG also, really the only land-based Sandbox MMO which had sticking power with me.  Assuming a game similar to SWG, what feature would you like to see changed or like to see most in that game?

I'm not sure if it's a suitable item to call a feature, but what i think was key to what set SWG apart, was that it featured plenty of non-combat activity, which opened it up to far more than the typical min-maxer, achiever type's, that most MMO's draw.

Muke

Originally posted by TheeLord
Simple Q, What is your most wanted feature in a sandbox MMO?  What other games have you played and wish they had xyz feature?

Freedom.

strawhat0981

Duh, the number one thing is ffa pvp.       /s

Grunty

The lack of a box and sand in your underwear.

alloin

open world pvp, full loot, building (with claims & defenses), crafting & permadeath

Tibernicuspa

My default answer for ANY MMO is

 

NO QUEST BASED LEVELING.

NO INSTANCING.

 

Probably being able to drop anything on the ground.

 

Or mobs that invade settlements and move around.

TheeLord

Assuming the game has all of the base game elements you all listed above  , are there some more specific features or systems you can suggest?

Loke666

Player owned stores/marketstands. That goes both for sandboxes and themeparks.

MMOs need a player driven economy and it is usually sadly lacking in them.

The thing I want least in a PvP sandbox BTW is huge powergaps between new players and vets.It makes most PvP fights pointless since the winner is decided before it even starts, just a waste of my time. I don't want too search around to find an opponent that neither is impossible or even worse, no challenge whatsoever. Just ain't what I would call "fun".

TheeLord

Originally posted by Loke666

Player owned stores/marketstands. That goes both for sandboxes and themeparks.

MMOs need a player driven economy and it is usually sadly lacking in them.

The thing I want least in a PvP sandbox BTW is huge powergaps between new players and vets.It makes most PvP fights pointless since the winner is decided before it even starts, just a waste of my time. I don't want too search around to find an opponent that neither is impossible or even worse, no challenge whatsoever. Just ain't what I would call "fun".

How would you envision player run stores/stands to work?

How many new players do you think is appropriate to kill one player with 500 hours into the game?

sunandshadow

Crafting, I guess would be number one.  Sim or minigame-style crafting, because screw crafting systems where you are just plugging ingredients into a recipe with a random chance of failure to grind out crafting XP.  Ew.

If a sandbox has good crafting, then I check to make sure it has decent PVE combat, because I have yet to play a sandbox where the combat is even as good as an average WoW clone.

Then if it actually passed both of those checks I make sure there's a non-PvP server, unless by some miracle the whole game is non-PvP.

Loktofeit

Open world territory control at the individual player level. 

Fangrim

Originally posted by alloin
open world pvp, full loot, building (with claims & defenses), crafting & permadeath

Permadeath is not needed in even a sandbox MMORPG ,imop you still need some feeling of progression or it wears thin fast.You really don't even have to have pvp in a sandbox type game either or at least full loot.

Uziduke

Player run all most the full game. The game is just the world, the player creates 80% or more of the content.

TheeLord

Originally posted by Fangrim

Originally posted by alloin
open world pvp, full loot, building (with claims & defenses), crafting & permadeath

Permadeath is not needed in even a sandbox MMORPG ,imop you still need some feeling of progression or it wears thin fast.You really don't even have to have pvp in a sandbox type game either or at least full loot.

How harsh do you guys feel a death penalty should be?

Fangrim

Oh there should be penalty on death,especially pve death.Instead of a timed debuff (which I think is just annoying) xp loss is okay and for pvp deaths it should probably just be losing ranks.I don't like losing items you worked for by dying to another player though,I don't mind them degrading through use.

For me losing items is just not a good idea,for example say you raided for months and only got one item then lost it on being ganked  it sort of makes raiding pointless.This is also the reason permadeath is just a no no for me.Who would want to risk their life fighting anything hard?

Permadeath is for rl

Loktofeit

Originally posted by TheeLord

Originally posted by Loke666

Player owned stores/marketstands. That goes both for sandboxes and themeparks.

MMOs need a player driven economy and it is usually sadly lacking in them.

The thing I want least in a PvP sandbox BTW is huge powergaps between new players and vets.It makes most PvP fights pointless since the winner is decided before it even starts, just a waste of my time. I don't want too search around to find an opponent that neither is impossible or even worse, no challenge whatsoever. Just ain't what I would call "fun".

How would you envision player run stores/stands to work?

How many new players do you think is appropriate to kill one player with 500 hours into the game?

On the first question:

Ultima Online, Shadowbane and Puzzle Pirates offer some viable approaches. 

 

On the second question:

If it's an EQ/WOW clone then, none.  Power in those games is derived from how much time you spend grinding their content.

In a game like UO (pre-AoS), Puzzle Pirates or EVE, then the amount of time is immaterial. What comes into play is how much that person has learned about the game. 

sunandshadow

Originally posted by TheeLord

Assuming the game has all of the base game elements you all listed above  , are there some more specific features or systems you can suggest?

Getting into more specifics, I prefer a world that doesn't have guns as a weapon type, and doesn't drop gear as a loot type.  First-person games give me motion sickness, so I pretty much need a third person game.  I don't like realistic worlds much, so I'd prefer a fantasy or science fiction setting where the plants and animals are distinctly different from Earth.  Similarly, I'm not really interested in playing a human character, unless they tend to get mutated or evolved during the game.  Appearance modifications like that make awesome quest or dungeon completion rewards.  Also I don't like horror settings, so I'd prefer a world that isn't a dystopia and isn't full of zombies or vampires.

I love building myself a hut and expanding it to be a farm and then a fancy estate, so I'd like it if the ownership and development of one's personal property was one of the major advancement paths in the game.  Goes nicely with developing one's personal appearance, like mentioned in the previous paragraph.  Pet or mount collecting and breeding is another gameplay activity I really like, which seems like it could fit well in a sandbox.

I really dislike player-owned stores and would prefer them not to be in a game.  I want to be able to near-instantly search a category of items for sale, sort the results by price per unit, buy with one click, and have the purchases delivered to me.  If other players want to design things to show off to me, I'd rather see buildings, sculptures, museum-gallery-like exhibits of their collections, just NOT player-customized stores.

TheeLord

Originally posted by sunandshadow

Originally posted by TheeLord

Assuming the game has all of the base game elements you all listed above  , are there some more specific features or systems you can suggest?

Getting into more specifics, I prefer a world that doesn't have guns as a weapon type, and doesn't drop gear as a loot type.  First-person games give me motion sickness, so I pretty much need a third person game.  I don't like realistic worlds much, so I'd prefer a fantasy or science fiction setting where the plants and animals are distinctly different from Earth.  Similarly, I'm not really interested in playing a human character, unless they tend to get mutated or evolved during the game.  Appearance modifications like that make awesome quest or dungeon completion rewards.  Also I don't like horror settings, so I'd prefer a world that isn't a dystopia and isn't full of zombies or vampires.

I love building myself a hut and expanding it to be a farm and then a fancy estate, so I'd like it if the ownership and development of one's personal property was one of the major advancement paths in the game.  Goes nicely with developing one's personal appearance, like mentioned in the previous paragraph.  Pet or mount collecting and breeding is another gameplay activity I really like, which seems like it could fit well in a sandbox.

sunandshadow, it seems you very much like building and feel your investments should be protected no matter what.  I don't particularly agree with this for my vision of the "perfect" sandbox game as that doesn't speak "freedom" to me..  Factions will allow you to hire NPCs to protect your investments while offline, and we've kicked around the idea of having certain servers that are only up for like 6 hours a day for those who only play at certain times every day.  Do you have any other suggestions for systems to protect your buildings and territory while offline?

TheeLord

Originally posted by Fangrim

Oh there should be penalty on death,especially pve death.Instead of a timed debuff (which I think is just annoying) xp loss is okay and for pvp deaths it should probably just be losing ranks.I don't like losing items you worked for by dying to another player though,I don't mind them degrading through use.

For me losing items is just not a good idea,for example say you raided for months and only got one item then lost it on being ganked  it sort of makes raiding pointless.This is also the reason permadeath is just a no no for me.Who would want to risk their life fighting anything hard?

Permadeath is for rl

permadeath wouldn't work I agree.  I like "XP" loss even though factions doesn't actually have XP, we will force lost skill points and research time upon death.  For dropping items, what do you think of allowing all items to drop, but looting items from a corpse has a casting timer, so it may take 20 seconds to loot a sword from a dead body, and you might only pick a couple of items from that body before he returns or takes a new body at his home.  Oh and would this seem more acceptable to you if there was no such thing as raiding for those high tier items (they are crafted instead)  granted it may take many hours of gathering materials for some of the best items in game..

Fangrim

Originally posted by TheeLord

Originally posted by Fangrim

Oh there should be penalty on death,especially pve death.Instead of a timed debuff (which I think is just annoying) xp loss is okay and for pvp deaths it should probably just be losing ranks.I don't like losing items you worked for by dying to another player though,I don't mind them degrading through use.

For me losing items is just not a good idea,for example say you raided for months and only got one item then lost it on being ganked  it sort of makes raiding pointless.This is also the reason permadeath is just a no no for me.Who would want to risk their life fighting anything hard?

Permadeath is for rl

permadeath wouldn't work I agree.  I like "XP" loss even though factions doesn't actually have XP, we will force lost skill points and research time upon death.  For dropping items, what do you think of allowing all items to drop, but looting items from a corpse has a casting timer, so it may take 20 seconds to loot a sword from a dead body, and you might only pick a couple of items from that body before he returns or takes a new body at his home.  Oh and would this seem more acceptable to you if there was no such thing as raiding for those high tier items (they are crafted instead)  granted it may take many hours of gathering materials for some of the best items in game..

 Yes,I do like the idea of crafting being viable and that loot idea sounds good too. Like a nice compromise between full loot and no loot

sunandshadow

Originally posted by TheeLord

Originally posted by sunandshadow

Originally posted by TheeLord

Assuming the game has all of the base game elements you all listed above  , are there some more specific features or systems you can suggest?

Getting into more specifics, I prefer a world that doesn't have guns as a weapon type, and doesn't drop gear as a loot type.  First-person games give me motion sickness, so I pretty much need a third person game.  I don't like realistic worlds much, so I'd prefer a fantasy or science fiction setting where the plants and animals are distinctly different from Earth.  Similarly, I'm not really interested in playing a human character, unless they tend to get mutated or evolved during the game.  Appearance modifications like that make awesome quest or dungeon completion rewards.  Also I don't like horror settings, so I'd prefer a world that isn't a dystopia and isn't full of zombies or vampires.

I love building myself a hut and expanding it to be a farm and then a fancy estate, so I'd like it if the ownership and development of one's personal property was one of the major advancement paths in the game.  Goes nicely with developing one's personal appearance, like mentioned in the previous paragraph.  Pet or mount collecting and breeding is another gameplay activity I really like, which seems like it could fit well in a sandbox.

sunandshadow, it seems you very much like building and feel your investments should be protected no matter what.  I don't particularly agree with this for my vision of the "perfect" sandbox game as that doesn't speak "freedom" to me..  Factions will allow you to hire NPCs to protect your investments while offline, and we've kicked around the idea of having certain servers that are only up for like 6 hours a day for those who only play at certain times every day.  Do you have any other suggestions for systems to protect your buildings and territory while offline?

I really don't want to play a game where I have to worry about protecting my core possessions while offline.  Instead I would suggest an RTS or TBS subgame, comparable to an arena system or battlegrounds.  Something that you can have fun playing one month and get some rewards out of it, but ignore the next month if you aren't in the mood.

anemo

Crafting with some actual design effort put into.

For combat you can see people talking about it for hours upon hours, you can see guides on every fan site, and similar.

For crafting you see a one page wiki article, and occasionally get someone asking for the best way to grind.   If you don't have players complaining about unbalanced aspects in crafting(The same way they do with combat) you did a bad job as a designer(it will be rarer since other crafters aren't in your face like combat, but crafters will still have things to complain about).

 

Another requirement is crafting that does not force unreasonablness into the system.   The simplist one to get rid of is the act of "Spamming" items being required to level your crafting skill or to fulfill some other achiever checklist.   If you need to go so far as to make only repairs level the skill, or the skill not having levels d that.

H0urg1ass

A solid player built economy with some form of true loss so that the economy is stimulated.

That's the very cornerstone of a good sandbox RPG.  The rest is all to taste.