Craft my own skills. I dont mean put some mats in a book that makes the same spell every wizard has but truly make skills. If I want my DD to do 25% of its damage at the end as a dot I should be able to do that. Or pick any DD and have 15% of the damage return as a HoT. If each thing you add had a cost and the more powerful what you adding is, the more it cost, you could balance it that way. I really want to build my own class.
DoT mana regen DPS class. DDing master with low cast times. Tank that uses AoE spells over melee. A rogue that most of his damage comes from insta cast DDs. If I can think of a class, I want to be able to make it. If an MMO gave me that freedom, they would win my business. I get it would be hard to balance but I think its worth it.
Originally posted by Distopia TBH one feature no matter what it is, really doesn't make much difference, I want a number of features that come together to create something along the lines of a modern SWG. A game that has many approaches, for all kinds of different players, all intertwined to create a deep community driven game like SWG was.
We all have that one game high we are chasing. Sometimes you can also remember what it felt like when you played it =-)
Craft my own skills. I dont mean put some mats in a book that makes the same spell every wizard has but truly make skills. If I want my DD to do 25% of its damage at the end as a dot I should be able to do that. Or pick any DD and have 15% of the damage return as a HoT. If each thing you add had a cost and the more powerful what you adding is, the more it cost, you could balance it that way. I really want to build my own class.
DoT mana regen DPS class. DDing master with low cast times. Tank that uses AoE spells over melee. A rogue that most of his damage comes from insta cast DDs. If I can think of a class, I want to be able to make it. If an MMO gave me that freedom, they would win my business. I get it would be hard to balance but I think its worth it.
I like the tier of spells like in EQ2,where every single person who is the same class gets the same spells but you can have tiers,Apprentice 1(starter) Apprentice 4 (crafted) Adept (looted) Expert (crafted) Master (looted) Grandmaster (Limited pick/crafted) Ancient (Super Rare) .This way a dedicated player can be better than the average 'insert class here' because his/her abilities are better.
The way you want it could be interesting but I fear everyone would gravitate towards self heal mana regenerate to be able to 'solo'
Originally posted by TheeLord Simple Q, What is your most wanted feature in a sandbox MMO? What other games have you played and wish they had xyz feature?
Simple.....a community.
I'm not talking about "community" in the sense that you interface with people via a global / local chat channel or some random group generator that throws you into a group of people you'll likely never see again. (*ahem* WOW *ahem*)
I'm talking about the kind of community where you recognize the names of people as they come into view. Where the bad guys make your adrenaline pump in fear, and where the good guys make you feel like you're catching up with old friends.
There are two dynamics in these kind of games that lend to this kind of community, which have gone by the wayside as not palatable to the casual MMO audience.
1) Non-Instanced World - instances are a convenient way to progress in the game, while avoiding everyone else. Having to deal / conflict resolve with other people in the game over access to resources in the game world are what legendary alliances & rivalries are made from.
2) Dependence On Other Players - not being able to do what you want, when you want, by yourself means you have to....you know....talk to other people, build relationships, compete, etc.
Last games i played where I felt like there was a true community of players was Ultima Online and Lineage 2
Originally posted by TheeLord Simple Q, What is your most wanted feature in a sandbox MMO? What other games have you played and wish they had xyz feature?
Simple.....a community.
I'm not talking about "community" in the sense that you interface with people via a global / local chat channel or some random group generator that throws you into a group of people you'll likely never see again. (*ahem* WOW *ahem*)
I'm talking about the kind of community where you recognize the names of people as they come into view. Where the bad guys make your adrenaline pump in fear, and where the good guys make you feel like you're catching up with old friends.
There are two dynamics in these kind of games that lend to this kind of community, which have gone by the wayside as not palatable to the casual MMO audience.
1) Non-Instanced World - instances are a convenient way to progress in the game, while avoiding everyone else. Having to deal / conflict resolve with other people in the game over access to resources in the game world are what legendary alliances & rivalries are made from.
2) Dependence On Other Players - not being able to do what you want, when you want, by yourself means you have to....you know....talk to other people, build relationships, compete, etc.
Last games i played where I felt like there was a true community of players was Ultima Online and Lineage 2
PvE is the main component thats been missing from sandbox games in the last decade. They just felt so drab and pointless. No enemy factions, no backstory, no cool dungeons, very little is challenging to obtain. You either grind resources, craft, gank or siege. Sorry, that alone is not a virtual world. Sandbox game companies need to make the world fun, and give players a structured system of long-term advancement. Working together towards those goals and that interdependence is what creates communities. If players don't have personal or guild goals to achieve every day, they will stop logging in. PvP alone is not enough.
Here we go with the FFA PvP knowing full well that those players run off anyone else interested in playing then they feast on their own until the game dies then they start with the crying about not having a game to play.
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
For me, this is so easy. PvE. PvE is the main component thats been missing from sandbox games in the last decade. They just felt so drab and pointless. No enemy factions, no backstory, no cool dungeons, very little is challenging to obtain. You either grind resources, craft, gank or siege. Sorry, that alone is not a virtual world. Sandbox game companies need to make the world fun, and give players a structured system of long-term advancement. Working together towards those goals and that interdependence is what creates communities. If players don't have personal or guild goals to achieve every day, they will stop logging in. PvP alone is not enough.
Originally posted by TheeLord Simple Q, What is your most wanted feature in a sandbox MMO? What other games have you played and wish they had xyz feature?
Freedom.
To go along with that, NO scripted content, ala NO QUESTS.
I've been playing Minecraft for several years now, and still not bored of it. Multi-player Minecraft. About as open sandbox as one can get. The only thing it lacks is the Massively part. But everything else I desire exists there in spades.
Originally posted by TheeLord Simple Q, What is your most wanted feature in a sandbox MMO? What other games have you played and wish they had xyz feature?
Freedom.
To go along with that, NO scripted content, ala NO QUESTS.
I see no problem with quests, as long as its not quest progression. Quests can be a great method of telling stories and providing a sense of history to a world. Its grinding generic quests for experience that is the problem. That should have never been a thing.
Originally posted by TheeLord Simple Q, What is your most wanted feature in a sandbox MMO? What other games have you played and wish they had xyz feature?
Freedom.
To go along with that, NO scripted content, ala NO QUESTS.
I see no problem with quests, as long as its not quest progression. Quests can be a great method of telling stories and providing a sense of history to a world. Its grinding generic quests for experience that is the problem. That should have never been a thing.
I agree,been saying it for years.Why can't we have a game that is sandbox with NPC's that give quests also ? I just don't get it tbh,there are people that want a sandbox type of 'game' that feels more difficult than real life to me this is not a 'game'.
You could even have kill 10 rat quests within reason,what I mean is once 500 rats are killed by players turning in the quest the NPC stops giving the quest until the population grows again or a set amount of time passes ( I do NOT mean like the tedious heart events in GW2)
A player driven economy with a deep crafting system. I would love to see an MMO where bosses drop items or one use schematics used to craft the item instead of giving you the completed item. Make crafters meaningful like in SWG. I will never forget the names of the best crafters on SWG's Tarquinas server. I knew who to go to when I wanted the best armor, weapons, food or ship parts.
Example of a good crafting/economy scenario:
Kill a boss and he drops a sword hilt that must be given to a crafter to make a complete sword for you instead of dropping the whole sword itself. Or, drop a one use schematic that can be given to the crafter to make for you.
Craft my own skills. I dont mean put some mats in a book that makes the same spell every wizard has but truly make skills. If I want my DD to do 25% of its damage at the end as a dot I should be able to do that. Or pick any DD and have 15% of the damage return as a HoT. If each thing you add had a cost and the more powerful what you adding is, the more it cost, you could balance it that way. I really want to build my own class.
DoT mana regen DPS class. DDing master with low cast times. Tank that uses AoE spells over melee. A rogue that most of his damage comes from insta cast DDs. If I can think of a class, I want to be able to make it. If an MMO gave me that freedom, they would win my business. I get it would be hard to balance but I think its worth it.
I like the tier of spells like in EQ2,where every single person who is the same class gets the same spells but you can have tiers,Apprentice 1(starter) Apprentice 4 (crafted) Adept (looted) Expert (crafted) Master (looted) Grandmaster (Limited pick/crafted) Ancient (Super Rare) .This way a dedicated player can be better than the average 'insert class here' because his/her abilities are better.
The way you want it could be interesting but I fear everyone would gravitate towards self heal mana regenerate to be able to 'solo'
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Originally posted by Distopia TBH one feature no matter what it is, really doesn't make much difference, I want a number of features that come together to create something along the lines of a modern SWG. A game that has many approaches, for all kinds of different players, all intertwined to create a deep community driven game like SWG was.
We all have that one game high we are chasing. Sometimes you can also remember what it felt like when you played it =-)
It's also important to remember, feelings are in the eye of the beholder. Meaning, how one game feels to an individual isn't exactly universal.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by TheeLord Simple Q, What is your most wanted feature in a sandbox MMO? What other games have you played and wish they had xyz feature?
Freedom.
To go along with that, NO scripted content, ala NO QUESTS.
I see no problem with quests, as long as its not quest progression. Quests can be a great method of telling stories and providing a sense of history to a world. Its grinding generic quests for experience that is the problem. That should have never been a thing.
For combat you can see people talking about it for hours upon hours, you can see guides on every fan site, and similar.
For crafting you see a one page wiki article, and occasionally get someone asking for the best way to grind. If you don't have players complaining about unbalanced aspects in crafting(The same way they do with combat) you did a bad job as a designer(it will be rarer since other crafters aren't in your face like combat, but crafters will still have things to complain about).
Another requirement is crafting that does not force unreasonablness into the system. The simplist one to get rid of is the act of "Spamming" items being required to level your crafting skill or to fulfill some other achiever checklist. If you need to go so far as to make only repairs level the skill, or the skill not having levels d that.
Any other suggestions on not forcing spam of crafting items to level up the skill? Repairing items with same skill to level it up is a good idea
All items in Factions will have an effectivness and durability rating range, and will usually be made up of various sub-components. Depending on materials and components used, skill of crafter, effectivness of tools used in crafting etc... all items can have quite a wide range of stats. I like the thought of mini-games for crafting, but I fear they become more of a burden then they actually add to the experience.
On a side note: Personally I won't use the term Sandbox. I call it the "S" word :-)
I have my own theories on it. But in discussions I see a wide range in definitions, often so extreme in absolutes it's to the point of being absurd.
Territory control player-driven activity with no developer storyline on one side, to free roaming non-linear adventure game with tons of developer provided storyline.
I've studied how this difference came about. If you want a brief synopsis, I'll share.
EDIT: btw, beautiful screens !!!
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
Craft my own skills. I dont mean put some mats in a book that makes the same spell every wizard has but truly make skills. If I want my DD to do 25% of its damage at the end as a dot I should be able to do that. Or pick any DD and have 15% of the damage return as a HoT. If each thing you add had a cost and the more powerful what you adding is, the more it cost, you could balance it that way. I really want to build my own class.
DoT mana regen DPS class. DDing master with low cast times. Tank that uses AoE spells over melee. A rogue that most of his damage comes from insta cast DDs. If I can think of a class, I want to be able to make it. If an MMO gave me that freedom, they would win my business. I get it would be hard to balance but I think its worth it.
I think you will love what we are planning with our skills-based advancement and magic being "created" at casting using various spell words to decide what exactly the spell will do.
How do you keep some sort of balance in your ideal game? If you had heavy plate armor wielding sorcerers, and amazingly good archers that can also wield a 2h battleaxe with grace, do you think things will become too unbalanced? I have my own ideas on this, but would like to hear your take
On a side note: Personally I won't use the term Sandbox. I call it the "S" word :-)
I have my own theories on it. But in discussions I see a wide range in definitions, often so extreme in absolutes it's to the point of being absurd.
Territory control player-driven activity with no developer storyline on one side, to free roaming non-linear adventure game with tons of developer provided storyline.
I've studied how this difference came about. If you want a brief synopsis, I'll share.
EDIT: btw, beautiful screens !!!
Thanks, been at it for many years, we are finally getting somewhat close to limited closed testing. It also confuses me, it seems that most mature MMO gamers have one definition of sandbox games (the one I share for the most part) and then newer players have a very different view of the term "sandbox". Unfortunately no one has come up with better terminology to describe these.
Comments
Craft my own skills. I dont mean put some mats in a book that makes the same spell every wizard has but truly make skills. If I want my DD to do 25% of its damage at the end as a dot I should be able to do that. Or pick any DD and have 15% of the damage return as a HoT. If each thing you add had a cost and the more powerful what you adding is, the more it cost, you could balance it that way. I really want to build my own class.
DoT mana regen DPS class. DDing master with low cast times. Tank that uses AoE spells over melee. A rogue that most of his damage comes from insta cast DDs. If I can think of a class, I want to be able to make it. If an MMO gave me that freedom, they would win my business. I get it would be hard to balance but I think its worth it.
We all have that one game high we are chasing. Sometimes you can also remember what it felt like when you played it =-)
I like the tier of spells like in EQ2,where every single person who is the same class gets the same spells but you can have tiers,Apprentice 1(starter) Apprentice 4 (crafted) Adept (looted) Expert (crafted) Master (looted) Grandmaster (Limited pick/crafted) Ancient (Super Rare) .This way a dedicated player can be better than the average 'insert class here' because his/her abilities are better.
The way you want it could be interesting but I fear everyone would gravitate towards self heal mana regenerate to be able to 'solo'
To Craft my own gear with stats depending on material sort and grade which needs intelligently combining different materials.
Material sources need to searched and lokated first, with another minigame.
Seasons and daylight cycles which influence material foraging and behaviour of prey mobs.
Simple.....a community.
I'm not talking about "community" in the sense that you interface with people via a global / local chat channel or some random group generator that throws you into a group of people you'll likely never see again. (*ahem* WOW *ahem*)
I'm talking about the kind of community where you recognize the names of people as they come into view. Where the bad guys make your adrenaline pump in fear, and where the good guys make you feel like you're catching up with old friends.
There are two dynamics in these kind of games that lend to this kind of community, which have gone by the wayside as not palatable to the casual MMO audience.
1) Non-Instanced World - instances are a convenient way to progress in the game, while avoiding everyone else. Having to deal / conflict resolve with other people in the game over access to resources in the game world are what legendary alliances & rivalries are made from.
2) Dependence On Other Players - not being able to do what you want, when you want, by yourself means you have to....you know....talk to other people, build relationships, compete, etc.
Last games i played where I felt like there was a true community of players was Ultima Online and Lineage 2
+1
Purpose.
Give me a WHY and I will stay forever otherwise I feel like I'm wasting my time on repetitive nothings.
SWG had that, no other Sandbox has given me purpose like SWG did.
For me, this is so easy. PvE.
PvE is the main component thats been missing from sandbox games in the last decade. They just felt so drab and pointless. No enemy factions, no backstory, no cool dungeons, very little is challenging to obtain. You either grind resources, craft, gank or siege. Sorry, that alone is not a virtual world. Sandbox game companies need to make the world fun, and give players a structured system of long-term advancement. Working together towards those goals and that interdependence is what creates communities. If players don't have personal or guild goals to achieve every day, they will stop logging in. PvP alone is not enough.
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
+1To go along with that, NO scripted content, ala NO QUESTS.
I see no problem with quests, as long as its not quest progression. Quests can be a great method of telling stories and providing a sense of history to a world. Its grinding generic quests for experience that is the problem. That should have never been a thing.
I agree,been saying it for years.Why can't we have a game that is sandbox with NPC's that give quests also ? I just don't get it tbh,there are people that want a sandbox type of 'game' that feels more difficult than real life to me this is not a 'game'.
You could even have kill 10 rat quests within reason,what I mean is once 500 rats are killed by players turning in the quest the NPC stops giving the quest until the population grows again or a set amount of time passes ( I do NOT mean like the tedious heart events in GW2)
A player driven economy with a deep crafting system. I would love to see an MMO where bosses drop items or one use schematics used to craft the item instead of giving you the completed item. Make crafters meaningful like in SWG. I will never forget the names of the best crafters on SWG's Tarquinas server. I knew who to go to when I wanted the best armor, weapons, food or ship parts.
Example of a good crafting/economy scenario:
Kill a boss and he drops a sword hilt that must be given to a crafter to make a complete sword for you instead of dropping the whole sword itself. Or, drop a one use schematic that can be given to the crafter to make for you.
I liked the way EQ2 did that as well.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
It's also important to remember, feelings are in the eye of the beholder. Meaning, how one game feels to an individual isn't exactly universal.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
*tips hat*
In-deeeed!
Any other suggestions on not forcing spam of crafting items to level up the skill? Repairing items with same skill to level it up is a good idea
All items in Factions will have an effectivness and durability rating range, and will usually be made up of various sub-components. Depending on materials and components used, skill of crafter, effectivness of tools used in crafting etc... all items can have quite a wide range of stats. I like the thought of mini-games for crafting, but I fear they become more of a burden then they actually add to the experience.
Founder and Lead developer of Factions. The complete fantasy sandbox survival MMO.
Factions indiedb Page (most up to date info) | Factions Website
I Agree with this statement for sure!
Founder and Lead developer of Factions. The complete fantasy sandbox survival MMO.
Factions indiedb Page (most up to date info) | Factions Website
On a side note: Personally I won't use the term Sandbox. I call it the "S" word :-)
I have my own theories on it. But in discussions I see a wide range in definitions, often so extreme in absolutes it's to the point of being absurd.
Territory control player-driven activity with no developer storyline on one side, to free roaming non-linear adventure game with tons of developer provided storyline.
I've studied how this difference came about. If you want a brief synopsis, I'll share.
EDIT: btw, beautiful screens !!!
I think you will love what we are planning with our skills-based advancement and magic being "created" at casting using various spell words to decide what exactly the spell will do.
How do you keep some sort of balance in your ideal game? If you had heavy plate armor wielding sorcerers, and amazingly good archers that can also wield a 2h battleaxe with grace, do you think things will become too unbalanced? I have my own ideas on this, but would like to hear your take
Founder and Lead developer of Factions. The complete fantasy sandbox survival MMO.
Factions indiedb Page (most up to date info) | Factions Website
Thanks, been at it for many years, we are finally getting somewhat close to limited closed testing. It also confuses me, it seems that most mature MMO gamers have one definition of sandbox games (the one I share for the most part) and then newer players have a very different view of the term "sandbox". Unfortunately no one has come up with better terminology to describe these.
Founder and Lead developer of Factions. The complete fantasy sandbox survival MMO.
Factions indiedb Page (most up to date info) | Factions Website
the usual stuff that makes sandbox sandbox
open world building/housing
extensive crafting that relies on players to make economy work
conflict over resources
growing crops and animals
some sort of permadeath or high death penalty