[Editorial] Crowfall: Can Crowfall Bring About a New Era?

SBFord

As we watch a crowd of independent MMO developers make their dream games, watch them strive to make something unique, and watch them struggle to get the damn things out the door, I wonder. Will one of these strongminded studios bring about a new MMO golden age?

Read on for more of Bill Murphy’s Can Crowfall Bring About a New Era?

Everyone wants to bag a TRex.

Slapshot1188

Could it? Sure...and as a backer I sure hope so.

But in general nothing wastes "potential" like MMORPGs do. Great design docs are a dime a dozen these days. Delivering on that promise... well that would be priceless!

meonthissite

One thing they aren't leaving behind apparently is the stacking system that's been used in combat since the first days of WoW. We don't need more of that nonsense that's part of the central problem with fighting in MMOs today. There's literally only 2 titles out right now that have cerebral combat in them (IE traps that matter and conditional burst) that allows players to do setup before the kill of enemies, We need that combat style back and it's not going to come back when developers continue to drop the ball even indie ones.

madazz

Crowfail invests too much of their backed money into paying people to post on Reddit, and for advertorials on MassivelyOP to be a reliable game. They have pissed away too much of their money. This brings up the question... did backers know that a good portion of their money would go towards advertising rather than development? Is there too much or too little a backed project can advertise using the money they obtained?

 

Heck, even a recent "forum member" has been placing ads for crowfall here in the guise of crowfall vs camelot unchained (which is like comparing apples to oranges).

 

With that said, I feel the game is overly ambitious for their limited funds. I feel the game will launch and then disappear within 6-8 months. Its overly ambitious. They say they can spend less time developing because they have no PvE to worry about... that's all just hype to make feel people comfortable with the fact they are wasting so much cash. 

 

I don't trust these guys. Hell, it may be childish, but even looking at the two designers Thomas Blair and Tully Ackland makes me distrust them further.

 

*edit - Just wanted to add. They have layaway for item purchases in case you don't have the money all up front. AHhahahahahah Now isnt that desperation? 

Here is an advertorial from MassivelyOP. Another guy posts about not trusting them either and gets several likes.

http://massivelyop.com/2015/06/25/crowfall-devs-answer-questions-about-stamina-dots-and-more/

Rommie10-284

At the moment, I would say no.  I just think the playerbase for this game will tear it apart, and it will have to morph into something more conventional or shut down.  I'll be happy to be wrong.

 

I think Destiny is closer to the type of game that will be the "New Era" than Crowfall, to be honest.  And that, in my mind, shows how far there still is to go.

madazz

Originally posted by Rommie10-284

At the moment, I would say no.  I just think the playerbase for this game will tear it apart, and it will have to morph into something more conventional or shut down.  I'll be happy to be wrong.

 

I think Destiny is closer to the type of game that will be the "New Era" than Crowfall, to be honest.  And that, in my mind, shows how far there still is to go.

I believe we are talking about a new era for MMO's though. Destiny is a 4 player game with what.. a 16 player lobby? So..... yeah....

kjempff

The first to make a sandbox pve focused game with aaa graphics, building & survival, and rpg elements will define next the next gen. Pvp focused sandboxes only reach so many players, and to attract the huge pve segment for a longer period of time you need to give them a less hostile game environment.

EqNext has it right.. Or shall we say had? That project seem less and less likely to deliver on its concepts. Well, anyways maybe some other high profile game company that gets inspired by the many indie ish builder survival games in the works.

Personally I don't think Crowfall will be the one, it is just too pvp centric, but who knows ?

mmoguy43

Well said Bill! My interest in EQN has almost completely dropped and Crowfall has taken it's place.

Even if it doesn't bring a new era, it will certainly set a new bar for Action PvP MMOs. There are so many great design decisions that it will be difficult to go back to anything else.

It's impressive what they have done so far with a small team and exciting with what's to come.

SpottyGekko

Crowfall may bring about a "new era" for niche games, but that's as far as it will ever go.

 

But nowadays "new era" in MMORPG-terms usually translates to: "many clones were attempted".

TweFoju

since i backed this game up, i certainly hope so that it will at least last for more than 2 years

cameltosis

Like others have said, Crowfall may be successful in comparison to its budget, but it wont be successful in comparison to the AAA MMOs that have been successful in the past. There are three key reasons for this:

 

1) Its a new IP. This means there isn't an existing playerbase or "natural" interest in the game

2) Small budget. This means that they wont have the marketing budget to reach a mass audience

3) Focus on PvP. This means that of the existing MMO playerbase, most will be put off

 

All this means that the potential audience for Crowfall is quite small. If the audience is small, subscriber numbers will be small. This means Crowfall's ability to influence AAA design will be limited and so we're unlikely to see a shift in the MMO space as a result. 

Crowfall is definitely heading in the right direction in my mind and has some nice ideas, but it wont be ushering in a new era of MMOs. 

Whiskey_Sam

Nope.

Mensur

First of all - great peace friend!

I want to say that i agree with you 100% on that one. I also hope crowfall will execute their plan in becoming a great mmorpg

Lheiah

I'm looking forward to Crowfall, but I'm pretty sure I'll be in the group I'm about to describe. Crowfall will not be a major hit simply because of the fact that most of players looking forward to this game will rage quit crying and I'm not just talking about the kiddies. I'm sure a large portion of the readership on this site have never heard of Shadowbane, much less played it.

 

Also, I'm fairly certain the highest profile indie by far is CIG. Whether they are 'indie' now or not, that is where their roots are and therefor have no reason to be compared any differently than the rest of these upstarts. Whether the game fails or not is up to interpretation, but they have already changed the gaming industry more than anyone else by a long shot with their 'open development' marketing strategy. Almost every developer couldn't jump on that wagon fast enough,and it HAS ushered in a new paradigm for development at least.

 

But, here's to hoping...something....will emerge that is compelling again.

Ozmodan

There is always hope that one of these indies will find the right formula for a fun game.  

Being a game where pvp is at the forefront, just makes is more difficult for this title.

Loktofeit

Originally posted by DMKano
Crowfall is a niche game at heart. Same as ArcheAge, and SWG and othet good niche games. Sure niche can be successfull but never to a "new paradigm" degree such as WoW or LoL or any of the major market share games. Which is why I think it won't bring a new Era - that will happen with a completely different genre like when MOBAs exploded with 50million monthly unique players, and we thought wow's 12 mil was impressive.

I think it greatly depends on what they position themselves as. If they consider themselves an MMO or a MOBA then, no... the title has been taken and it's rare that a genre's title holder ever gets dethroned once mainstream knows the genre exists. I add that last criteria because EQ was the title holder and WOW took that title because by the time it hit mainstream EQ was simply dated in every aspect (gameplay, UI, graphics) compared to everything else. LoL reigned and held the title because it was still relevant and 'cool' when MOBAs went mainstream. 

Now, if Crowfall can position itself as the leader in the new genre - a genre of persistent online worlds where the content not only changes and evolves but can be manipulated by the players, then they can usher in a new ERA. At that point, EQ Next/Landmark and all the other persistent worlds in the wings have to decide if they want to

• follow the Big New Thing (they could end up one of the big three or even take the title)
• fall back on 'MMO' (probably not a big sell in the near future) 
• avoid all labels altogether (hard to do because the consumers will put you in their perceived box if you don't claim one.)

 

Crowfall, The Repopulation, Shards Online and a few other titles are in a position where their gameplay is divergent enough that with a good marketing strategy (on top of a solid, stable, feature complete game, of course) they can get the right players in the door, build a great core community, and be one of the top games in their genre. 

 

 

But back to Crowfall specifically... how niche is it, really? If I'm reading their design ideas correctly, they have a decent amount of content planned for several playstyles. More importantly, they have ways for people to enjoy their playstyle with minimal molestation from other playstyles. While it's true that PVPers rarely ever have their battle interrupted by someone baking bread at them, it's very common in most MMOs "with something for everyone" to have PVE players, crafters and gatherers regularly molested by the PVPers looking for easy kills or simply leveling.

They also realize that "PVPer" isn't one monolithic group. Some like guild PVP, some like small bands, some like the gank, and others like massive framerate-crushing full on assaults.  Crowfall is looking to offer a bit of each, AND each campaign is separate from the next. This means the small roving band crew can find PVP where they aren't getting mauled by massive alliances. 

The concept behind Crowfall is what many MMOs aspire to. If we look at the evolution of early PBBGs (Ikariam, Evony, EmpireCraft) to their modern 'social' progeny (Rival Kingdoms, Samurai Siege) we can see where MOBAs are headed. Expect more persistence than just character level and look forward to ownership of some virtual assets for your gods, champions, minions, etc.  

Both MMO and MOBA roads lead to Crowfall. 

 

Now, we just need those guys to pull it off.  

 

SavageHorizon

Lol mmorpg trying to promote Cf as a mmo for all mmo players. Fact is its a PVP mmo no matter how the OP tries to gloss over it. No mmo built around PVP will ever bring in a new era in mmo gaming especially a game that isn't really what many would consider a true mmorpg.

FlyByKnight

Until I see a playable version of all the pieces together, and I see how their cash shop ($800 castles ROTFL) works I'd really appreciate not seeing websites like MMORPG.com adding to the hype train momentum for this game.

 

This game (and other kickstarter or alpha buy-in games) is like a guy on date night trying to talk the panties off a gal. It all sounds good until the drawers have been pilfered and then no phone call the next day. Everything SOUNDS and looks lovely.  What it IS, is a completely unfinished dream being sold.

 

I'd really like to see MMORPG interview these guys and really ask them hard questions (business models, pricing) and hold then accountable for those answers, if/when they do the switcheroo.

 

 

Kajidourden

Personally, I think EQN is going to blow everyone away when it eventually releases.  This is an extreme pie-in-the-sky estimation I realize...but nothing else even remotely piques my interest so it's what I'm going with.

vadio123

Maybe , but avoid hypes can be great move to success

And well i expect find something similiar warhammer and funny moments i have find go Tier 6 defend/attack enemy city 

Yea in this day dont expect full sandbox mmo wth superb realism , permadeath, full loot whatever but funny mmo with pvp 

alemap000

I did my best to support crowfall but the community is already too toxic for me on their boards.  I backed their Kickstarter but IMO I see the game staying small, mainly because if anyone who is not pvp centric takes a risk and tries the game they'll be driven out by the community. 

Very sad as the game looks pretty great.  

Loktofeit

Originally posted by alemap000

I did my best to support crowfall but the community is already too toxic for me on their boards.  I backed their Kickstarter but IMO I see the game staying small, mainly because if anyone who is not pvp centric takes a risk and tries the game they'll be driven out by the community. 

Very sad as the game looks pretty great.  

I stay away for that same reason. Nakawe and a handful of others are not just rude but extremely hostile toward anyone interested in any aspect of the game or community outside of PVP content. I like the game, but that forum crowd makes these forums here look like a family picnic. 

Iselin

Bill, you are old... and not because you use words like "hogwash," but because you seem to be expecting history to repeat itself and ONE game to come along, knock everyone's socks off (yeah, I'm old too,) and influence the industry like WOW did.

 

WOW was a perfect storm that arrived at a point in time when everything was primed for its success just like it was when FB became a thing and later on Twitter.

 

Playing online and just plain being online is part of everyday life now. I think the new era is already here, it's the era of niche.

Loktofeit

Originally posted by Iselin

Bill, you are old... and not because you use words like "hogwash," but because you seem to be expecting history to repeat itself and ONE game to come along, knock everyone's socks off (yeah, I'm old too,) and influence the industry like WOW did.

 

Historically, that has happened with every genre - rpg, sim, fps, etc. - so there is both precedent and pattern. 

Iselin

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by Iselin

Bill, you are old... and not because you use words like "hogwash," but because you seem to be expecting history to repeat itself and ONE game to come along, knock everyone's socks off (yeah, I'm old too,) and influence the industry like WOW did.

 

Historically, that has happened with every genre - rpg, sim, fps, etc. - so there is both precedent and pattern. 

And wishful thinking

 

"Historically" in computer gaming for me goes all the way back to the Atari 800 and 1980. Back then just about everything released was a never before done "game changer" and most of us played the same things because variety was limited.

 

Gaming now is mainstream, massive and diverse. Even the WOW subs are now coming down to earth to levels comparable to other MMORPGs. I think that's the way of the future: more players but more spread out over an increasing number of games.

 

But hey, I'm certainly not immune from wishful thinking. I would love for there to be one new MMORPG to rule them all. I just don't see it happening. 

Allein

Highly doubt any one game is going to bring about a new Era. At least not in the sense of EQ or WoW. The options and number of gamers is simply too high for anything to really get a huge hold of the market.

The "new era" is upon us and is being created in studios all over. It is the era of niche indie type games where no one is the top dog or the game to beat.

Shards, Albion, Crowfall, Star Citizen, Camelot, etc are vastly different. We as gamers might find several interesting, but most likely will settle with what fits us best instead of going with the "best" option voted on by the masses.

I do hope that games like Crowfall help open the pocket books of investors and allow studios to have more/total control of their products and avoid having another 10 years or so of cookie cutter clones that fizzle out after trying to make another massive success.

One game might be technically the biggest "hit" but relatively speaking, nothing is going to match WoW (non-MOBA) for the near or even distant future. Remove it from the equation and there are several games doing "okay" but simply in a different league.

If the new niche games can maintain healthy populations and keep the lights on without trying to one up each other, we should all be in for some fun.