That whole line of reasoning is based purely on fear mongering started by Tipper Gore & later Barbara Bush. There has been zero evidence (and yes there have been numerous studies on this topic) to suggest that there is an actual correlation between the two. Furthermore, I found this article earlier today: NPR
It talks about how video games may actually be beneficial to our brains (when designed correctly, ofc). The article talks about how video games can be used to condition our brain to be more efficient. To ignore distractions we experience in our everyday lives. It says nothing about there being any link to violent behavior, nor affecting receptors responsible for aggression.
The reason that academics have an issue with the results, is that the studies do not account for the natural effect of physical competition. Let me explain, if you take two people and test for aggression, then engage them in a physical competitive event, and test for aggression again immediately after, you will find an increase in aggression. This is caused by a combination of physical activity, and the stress of competition. This is considered 'normal'.
Very insightful (yes, I pressed the button at the bottom too). A better research methodology would compare the increased aggression from a session of violent video games with, say, a session of full-contact football practice and watching part of a Tarantino flick (my vote goes to Kill Bill).
If video games result in a consistently higher rate of aggression.. There's cause for further study. If not, it simply fits within the realm of modern human life in regards to exposure to violence and aggression.
Found this story on BBC about violence and violent video games. It references mainly games such as Call to Duty, but MMOs are violent also. You kill things, you chop of body parts in some of them, you assassinate, etc. Plus in MMOs you have the fantasy escapism ala Mazes and Monsters (For those who get the reference) which some claim can also have a negative impact.
For the record, I think it is in large part hocum. I imagine it can affect someone who is having other issues, but I don't believe it to be the cause. However, it is an interesting discussion which I thought I would share.
The findings were released by the American Psychological Association.
It set up a taskforce that reviewed hundreds of studies and papers published between 2005 and 2013."........
It is a group who are anti-computer gaming who are trying to find any little spin they can make to convince idiots that this is true.
Give a psychologist enough time and he can "prove" anything. Just takes tweaking the tests enough. Societies have always been influenced by their forms of media. From making people prudes to violent fanatics. It is all in the presentations and manipulation of the audience. Usually this is specific targeted groups. To target the masses you effect general attitudes. Nazis taught us that in their propaganda. I can not make you a killer but given the right stimuli you will not be horrified if you have knowledge I committed a murder.
That whole line of reasoning is based purely on fear mongering started by Tipper Gore & later Barbara Bush. There has been zero evidence (and yes there have been numerous studies on this topic) to suggest that there is an actual correlation between the two. Furthermore, I found this article earlier today: NPR
It talks about how video games may actually be beneficial to our brains (when designed correctly, ofc). The article talks about how video games can be used to condition our brain to be more efficient. To ignore distractions we experience in our everyday lives. It says nothing about there being any link to violent behavior, nor affecting receptors responsible for aggression.
Roman gladiators got great workouts in the pits. Having some benefits does not always out way the negatives...though I do not believe the causes violence to video game relationship. Pointing out a benefit is a faulty line of attack to stop the main argument.
the obvious elephant in the room is never mentioned.
People who are already fucked up individuals will use whatever they have been exposed to and is handy when they create their dissociative fantasies.
Well, I more agree with these parts.
I think that the second sentence above is that elephant in the room. These people who are show to be violent and have been shown to play violent video games are already messed and are using what is handy to create these fantasies as you say.
I don't like singling out any group even religion just because it's just as unfair. Those people who are killing in the name of an ideology are already messed. if not religion then it would be a philosophy. If not a philosophy it will be because of racism.
I think the only thing that can really be said for sure is that there are violent people out there who are part of various groups/communities and the will use whatever is at hand (as you say) as their canvas of hate.
as far as the premise of "do violent video games make people violent" its' hogwash. I mostly play violent video games and I abhor violence.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Video games? Nah. Well, except fighting games, and that's more or less anger at the cheating AI and frustration with my own lack of skill at them. According to certain politicians though, being a gamer and firearms enthusiast my whole life means I should have killed about forty people by now over parking spaces or other trivial stuff. Because you know, guns and games make people behave violently, right?
AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!
We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD.
To find an intelligent person in a PUG is not that rare, but to find a PUG made up of "all" intelligent people is one of the rarest phenomenons in the known universe.
The reason that academics have an issue with the results, is that the studies do not account for the natural effect of physical competition. Let me explain, if you take two people and test for aggression, then engage them in a physical competitive event, and test for aggression again immediately after, you will find an increase in aggression. This is caused by a combination of physical activity, and the stress of competition. This is considered 'normal'.
Very insightful (yes, I pressed the button at the bottom too). A better research methodology would compare the increased aggression from a session of violent video games with, say, a session of full-contact football practice and watching part of a Tarantino flick (my vote goes to Kill Bill).
If video games result in a consistently higher rate of aggression.. There's cause for further study. If not, it simply fits within the realm of modern human life in regards to exposure to violence and aggression.
This would be more about endorphin, adrenaline, and other hormone dumps during these sessions and the direct chemical effects would fade quickly. Unless you are saying they get addicted to the "rush" and have to keep increasing the stress for bigger dumps.
I don't believe killing in games makes you a killer, but I do think it can have an impact on your mind and how aggressive your are. You can become wound up from playing a violent video game. You can also become paranoid and fearful from watching scary movies. There are definitely better things you can do if you want to become calm and stable person. That's not to say you shouldn't play games with violence. I'm just saying it seems to have have an impact on your aggressiveness. That doesn't mean you will start killing people. You might be more inclined to argue emotionally with others at times though. That is my opinion. Sex/porn also seems to have an impact on aggressiveness. I guess it's all to do with being tense or relaxed. Some things wind us up and others make us calm down.
Most children show on TV contain large among of violent , violent everywhere. YOU don't need violent games to make you a criminal , just watching , flash** ...
The reason that academics have an issue with the results, is that the studies do not account for the natural effect of physical competition. Let me explain, if you take two people and test for aggression, then engage them in a physical competitive event, and test for aggression again immediately after, you will find an increase in aggression. This is caused by a combination of physical activity, and the stress of competition. This is considered 'normal'.
Very insightful (yes, I pressed the button at the bottom too). A better research methodology would compare the increased aggression from a session of violent video games with, say, a session of full-contact football practice and watching part of a Tarantino flick (my vote goes to Kill Bill).
If video games result in a consistently higher rate of aggression.. There's cause for further study. If not, it simply fits within the realm of modern human life in regards to exposure to violence and aggression.
This would be more about endorphin, adrenaline, and other hormone dumps during these sessions and the direct chemical effects would fade quickly. Unless you are saying they get addicted to the "rush" and have to keep increasing the stress for bigger dumps.
Well current research in the area simply exposes subjects to violent video games, then measures their aggression directly afterwards. From the quick search of studies, it was the standard for testing. And I can get on board with that standard.. So long as its compared against other pastimes and activities that don't receive the same intensity of public scrutiny for violence.
As for long-term effects involving repeated and consistent exposure to violent video games.. It could still be compared to long-term exposure to the other mediums. My point was one of relativity: does exposure to violent video games cause an unheard of increase in aggression, or is it simply another form of exposure equal to others we generally accept within our society?
If anything, video games decrease the amount of people who are able to be violent. Through degeneration's such as arthritis, diabetes, obesity, joint pain, back paint, lack of exercise, etc.
Let's face it, a decent % of the "gamer" population spends a lot of their free time indoors minding their own business.
What always gets me about the studies that find a correlation between video game playing and aggressive behavior is that the obvious elephant in the room is never mentioned. Which is that there is much bigger historical and current correlation between religion and aggressive behavior often on a massive scale.
People who are already fucked up individuals will use whatever they have been exposed to and is handy when they create their dissociative fantasies. Very often it's warping of religious texts they have been exposed to, often, especially in soccer, it's pathological identification with a sports team, sometimes, as in the Colorado movie theater shooting a couple of years ago, it's associated with comic book or movie villains or heroes. So doh, sometimes their warped fantasies are associated with video games.
But it doesn't make video games any more of a contributor to aggressive behavior than team sports, religion, comics or movies. It's just fucked up people doing fucked up things. The articles claiming a correlation are just examples of shallow scapegoating.
According to that research video games make you feel aggressive when you fail and get frustrated, and non-violent video games have the same effect as violent video games.
When I was younger it was not the games or failure wich made me angry - it was the other players wich did. But fortunatly I am too old to give a shit about other people now. Gaming is so much more relaxed.
According to that research video games make you feel aggressive when you fail and get frustrated, and non-violent video games have the same effect as violent video games.
Funny, you would say that that goed for everything you can fail at, losing a sports match, even chess can cause this. Being rejected by the girl you fancy, messing up dinner etc. What a hoot, never knew that frustration out of failure could cause aggression, those people......
More OT, I have never been violent and I've been playing videogames for the last 27 years, ever since I was 8. When there is an outbreak of massive violence people go looking for a reason, a scapegoat, even when there is none. Because people need a reason for something to happen, especially a tragedy and nothing is worse then admitting it 'just happened without rhyme or reason.' There are crazy people out there, they do not need videogames to do what they do or anything else. Sometimes life is random and without reason and really, really shitty and unfair. Fortunately after music and movies there are now videogames to blame, society never learns.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
I wonder how the skinner box fits in with all of this? Push a button, get a cookie.
Ever see a mouse throw a keyboard when the wrong cookie dropped?
So no. I don't think the violence in video games makes me violent. Crappy drop rates do. :-)
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
lahnmir said: When there is an outbreak of massive violence people go looking for a reason, a scapegoat, even when there is none. Because people need a reason for something to happen, especially a tragedy and nothing is worse then admitting it 'just happened without rhyme or reason.' There are crazy people out there, they do not need videogames to do what they do or anything else. Sometimes life is random and without reason and really, really shitty and unfair.
I disagree, there is always a reason.
Randomness of life is just another scapegoat like violence in video games. Anything to believe in as long as those doing well themselves don't need to admit that a person is 3 times as likely to get murdered in USA as he's in Canada.
Yes, playing violent games makes you more violent and aggressive. Just like a million other activities and events in life also make you more violent and aggressive. Therefore making aggression gained through videogames a trivial event.
The problem with all studies and documentaries I've seen on the subject, is that none of them ever take the effort to compare violent videogames to any other type of play or even a violent situation in life.
Anyone who has ever looked at, or participated in, a tense game of football between kids (or even adults) knows how much aggression is released there. Same deal with kids simply doing games by themselves in the garden or the playfield, invariably conflict will arise. Heck, just look at everyday traffic situations and how much aggression is going around there. What's important is not that you become aggressive due to circumstances, what's important is that you learn to channel it and place it in a context.
Just yesterday some arsehole was willingly blocking me in traffic when I was on the way home, even though he was breaking the law doing so. When I persisted, took my right and slipped in before him, he generously made a ruckus with the horn and remained stuck to my aft bumper for as long as he could. All the while I was fantasizing about ripping his throat out.
Does that mean I would've done so given the chance? No of course not, because I know the limits of aggression and even though he was an asshole I can still explain his behaviour away. Because everyone wants to get home as quickly as possible from work.
Aggression, conflict and violent behaviour are parts of life. The ones who learn us how to deal with them are our parents in the first place and our other wards, like teachers and so on, in the second place.
If there's any problem with aggression in present day society, it's likely that those people don't put enough time in to actually guide the next generation in how to cope with their aggression. Usually because they simply don't HAVE enough time to do so.
So if a parent interrupts their kid who's in the middle of some raid in WoW to force him to the dinnertable and gets a bad reaction. Well, they usually have themselves to thank for it. Especially if they don't have a clue what their kid is doing and didn't set clear rules and standards to begin with.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
Comments
It talks about how video games may actually be beneficial to our brains (when designed correctly, ofc). The article talks about how video games can be used to condition our brain to be more efficient. To ignore distractions we experience in our everyday lives. It says nothing about there being any link to violent behavior, nor affecting receptors responsible for aggression.
If video games result in a consistently higher rate of aggression.. There's cause for further study. If not, it simply fits within the realm of modern human life in regards to exposure to violence and aggression.
Give a psychologist enough time and he can "prove" anything. Just takes tweaking the tests enough. Societies have always been influenced by their forms of media. From making people prudes to violent fanatics. It is all in the presentations and manipulation of the audience. Usually this is specific targeted groups. To target the masses you effect general attitudes. Nazis taught us that in their propaganda. I can not make you a killer but given the right stimuli you will not be horrified if you have knowledge I committed a murder.
Edit, never mind. Boards are a mess.
Once upon a time....
I think that the second sentence above is that elephant in the room. These people who are show to be violent and have been shown to play violent video games are already messed and are using what is handy to create these fantasies as you say.
I don't like singling out any group even religion just because it's just as unfair. Those people who are killing in the name of an ideology are already messed. if not religion then it would be a philosophy. If not a philosophy it will be because of racism.
I think the only thing that can really be said for sure is that there are violent people out there who are part of various groups/communities and the will use whatever is at hand (as you say) as their canvas of hate.
as far as the premise of "do violent video games make people violent" its' hogwash. I mostly play violent video games and I abhor violence.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!
We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD.
#IStandWithVic
To find an intelligent person in a PUG is not that rare, but to find a PUG made up of "all" intelligent people is one of the rarest phenomenons in the known universe.
This would be more about endorphin, adrenaline, and other hormone dumps during these sessions and the direct chemical effects would fade quickly. Unless you are saying they get addicted to the "rush" and have to keep increasing the stress for bigger dumps.
YOU don't need violent games to make you a criminal , just watching , flash** ...
As for long-term effects involving repeated and consistent exposure to violent video games.. It could still be compared to long-term exposure to the other mediums. My point was one of relativity: does exposure to violent video games cause an unheard of increase in aggression, or is it simply another form of exposure equal to others we generally accept within our society?
Let's face it, a decent % of the "gamer" population spends a lot of their free time indoors minding their own business.
And ill never get tired of saying Osama Bin Laden was a Microsoft Flight Simulator fanboy.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
According to that research video games make you feel aggressive when you fail and get frustrated, and non-violent video games have the same effect as violent video games.
More OT, I have never been violent and I've been playing videogames for the last 27 years, ever since I was 8. When there is an outbreak of massive violence people go looking for a reason, a scapegoat, even when there is none. Because people need a reason for something to happen, especially a tragedy and nothing is worse then admitting it 'just happened without rhyme or reason.' There are crazy people out there, they do not need videogames to do what they do or anything else. Sometimes life is random and without reason and really, really shitty and unfair. Fortunately after music and movies there are now videogames to blame, society never learns.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Ever see a mouse throw a keyboard when the wrong cookie dropped?
So no. I don't think the violence in video games makes me violent. Crappy drop rates do. :-)
Randomness of life is just another scapegoat like violence in video games. Anything to believe in as long as those doing well themselves don't need to admit that a person is 3 times as likely to get murdered in USA as he's in Canada.
The problem with all studies and documentaries I've seen on the subject, is that none of them ever take the effort to compare violent videogames to any other type of play or even a violent situation in life.
Anyone who has ever looked at, or participated in, a tense game of football between kids (or even adults) knows how much aggression is released there. Same deal with kids simply doing games by themselves in the garden or the playfield, invariably conflict will arise. Heck, just look at everyday traffic situations and how much aggression is going around there.
What's important is not that you become aggressive due to circumstances, what's important is that you learn to channel it and place it in a context.
Just yesterday some arsehole was willingly blocking me in traffic when I was on the way home, even though he was breaking the law doing so. When I persisted, took my right and slipped in before him, he generously made a ruckus with the horn and remained stuck to my aft bumper for as long as he could. All the while I was fantasizing about ripping his throat out.
Does that mean I would've done so given the chance? No of course not, because I know the limits of aggression and even though he was an asshole I can still explain his behaviour away. Because everyone wants to get home as quickly as possible from work.
Aggression, conflict and violent behaviour are parts of life. The ones who learn us how to deal with them are our parents in the first place and our other wards, like teachers and so on, in the second place.
If there's any problem with aggression in present day society, it's likely that those people don't put enough time in to actually guide the next generation in how to cope with their aggression. Usually because they simply don't HAVE enough time to do so.
So if a parent interrupts their kid who's in the middle of some raid in WoW to force him to the dinnertable and gets a bad reaction. Well, they usually have themselves to thank for it. Especially if they don't have a clue what their kid is doing and didn't set clear rules and standards to begin with.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!