Unless the theory they refer to is widely established.
Simply put, Axehilt wants me to prove that pre-order packs make money, a fact that is widely established and in the public realm.... I refuse to because he is hiding behind his own intellectual laziness. This does not make him right, it makes him disingenuous.
For starters, it was once "widely established" that the earth is flat. So no, common opinions aren't a replacement for evidence.
Second, this isn't about whether they make money. This is about whether they make lots of money. Enough that they can ignore retention (even though clearly retention would still be beneficial to them, as they make F2P games with ongoing microtransactions and they'd be fools to run their limited reputation into the ground chasing after pre-order after pre-order.)
Look, this isn't complicated: If the article exists, just link it! If PWE says they get the majority of their revenue from pre-orders over the lifetime of their games, then that's what actually happened and proves your claim. Unlike other posters, just because I started this discussion challenging your position that doesn't mean I'm going to stay on this side if you have objective evidence proving what you say. A lot of posters in these forums will stare objective evidence in the face and refuse to admit they're wrong. I am not one of those posters.
For starters, it was once "widely established" that the earth is flat. So no, common opinions aren't a replacement for evidence.
No it wasn't. We can see a circular shadow on the moon or a curved horizon on the ocean... we have known the world was round for time immemorial. The church had even estimated its circumference which is why they advised Columbus not to try to circumnavigate it as he would run out of supplies.
Simply put, PvP was the answer for me. Limitless content and self progression.
I don't think strict pve game play will get it's allure back. At least not for me. It's all been done before. It's just reskin after reskin. I don't think I'm the only one. Some just will not admit, or have not realized, so they bounce from game to game looking for that fresh feeling.
Simply put, PvP was the answer for me. Limitless content and self progression.
I don't think strict pve game play will get it's allure back. At least not for me. It's all been done before. It's just reskin after reskin. I don't think I'm the only one. Some just will not admit, or have not realized, so they bounce from game to game looking for that fresh feeling.
If reskins are all that is offered then yes, players will bounce back and forth but I don't think that has to do with PvP at all. I think it has to do with MMOs as a whole melding into a non-descript blob devoid of new ideas.
Simply put, PvP was the answer for me. Limitless content and self progression.
I don't think strict pve game play will get it's allure back. At least not for me. It's all been done before. It's just reskin after reskin. I don't think I'm the only one. Some just will not admit, or have not realized, so they bounce from game to game looking for that fresh feeling.
This... And challenge and immersion. If the game isn't at that right level of challenge, then I get bored. I only have so many years left to live, and I want to play some challenging content, please. This often means PvP. I think this is why the MOBA and TCG and FPS arena formats are so popular. It used to be the goal: max level, tweek your gear, PvP or Raid. Now you can skip all the beginning stuff; it's just the way it is.
It'd be really cool to have the option to log-in to an MMORPG as an NPC, weak and trivial, no great stats, but getting bonuses for doing some sort of menial task like: give 5 adventuring heroes a quest. Except you could do it through local chatting with them or something. I don't know where that came from, but whatever. Oh! the immersion part. Yes. Challenge me and immerse me, and I will play for the longevity of the game.
And...evolve over time (I think this a new standard anyways).
The proper question is why do you personally tend to quit games more quickly than you used to. What changed is you, more so than games.
In the last few years alone, I've stayed with Uncharted Waters Online, Guild Wars 2, and Neverwinter each for several months at a time.
Admittedly this entire thread is anecdotal. I am stating my opinions from my own experience of a) the amount of time I spend playing games; and, b) the turnover of players I see in my own small sphere of experience.
Unless the theory they refer to is widely established.
Simply put, Axehilt wants me to prove that pre-order packs make money, a fact that is widely established and in the public realm.... I refuse to because he is hiding behind his own intellectual laziness. This does not make him right, it makes him disingenuous.
For starters, it was once "widely established" that the earth is flat. So no, common opinions aren't a replacement for evidence.
That the earth is more or less round has been widely known since ancient times. Any civilization that traveled much at sea or studied astronomy probably found it fairly obvious. Other, more primitive civilizations didn't necessarily have any real reason to care about the global topology of the earth. Sometimes people confuse the earth being round (easy to prove) with the earth revolving about the sun (much harder to prove and not really known until about 300 years ago), but that's a different issue entirely.
Nevertheless, your point is salvageable in a meta way. It is commonly believed today that it used to be widely believed that that the earth was flat, but that doesn't mean that there actually used to be a bunch of people who thought that the earth was flat.
Many years ago when I picked up an mmo I expected to stay there for several months at least. These days I barely expect to stay more than one. Why is this?
I have a few incomplete thoughts on the subject:
Community- This does affect how long people expect to play.
Monetisation - This doesn't really affect how long people expect to play
Kickstarter - This actually increases how long people expect to play
Over-saturation - This doesnt affect how long people expect to play
Design - This does affect how long people expect to play.
Technology - This increase how long people expect to play
Mechanics - This does affect how long people expect to play
Innovation - This does not affect how long people expect to play
...or lack thereof. "Been here, done that" syndrome compels players to rush similar content.
Overall, your list would indicate that people would be expecting to play longer than they actually do.... which I believe is true. It is also the opposite of your post.
Care to provide any commentary for your opinions?
I will freely admit that I don't have any solid data to show that people are buying games with the expectation of playing for more than a few days/weeks/months. However, there is a LOT of data that shows that people leave a game after a few days/weeks/months. It is possible that they didnt expect to play that long... but it seems counterintuitive.
Many years ago when I picked up an mmo I expected to stay there for several months at least. These days I barely expect to stay more than one. Why is this?
I have a few incomplete thoughts on the subject:
Community- This does affect how long people expect to play.
Monetisation - This doesn't really affect how long people expect to play
Kickstarter - This actually increases how long people expect to play
Over-saturation - This doesnt affect how long people expect to play
Design - This does affect how long people expect to play.
Technology - This increase how long people expect to play
Mechanics - This does affect how long people expect to play
Innovation - This does not affect how long people expect to play
...or lack thereof. "Been here, done that" syndrome compels players to rush similar content.
Overall, your list would indicate that people would be expecting to play longer than they actually do.... which I believe is true. It is also the opposite of your post.
Care to provide any commentary for your opinions?
I will freely admit that I don't have any solid data to show that people are buying games with the expectation of playing for more than a few days/weeks/months. However, there is a LOT of data that shows that people leave a game after a few days/weeks/months. It is possible that they didnt expect to play that long... but it seems counterintuitive.
I didn't necessarily need evidence. I was just wondering what the reasoning was behind your various conclusions.... you kinda jumped to the conclusion without explanation.
50 years ago some doctor stated that stretching before exercise reduced injury. There was no evidence for it, it was just widely assumed. Today we know that static stretching before dynamic activity actually increases injuries rates and slows down performance and an active warm up is better.
Everyone believes mother babies will abandon their chicks if humans touch them. Completely wrong.
Everyone believes sugar makes kids hyper. Not according to the JAMA, funnily enough sugar free drinks made kids even more hyper.
Cholesterol in eggs is bad for your heart. Since the 60's when this was reported study after study after study has shown this to be false.
Lightning never strikes the same place twice. It does, all the time.
and on and on and on... You get the idea.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
50 years ago some doctor stated that stretching before exercise reduced injury. There was no evidence for it, it was just widely assumed. Today we know that static stretching before dynamic activity actually increases injuries rates and slows down performance and an active warm up is better.
Everyone believes mother babies will abandon their chicks if humans touch them. Completely wrong.
Everyone believes sugar makes kids hyper. Not according to the JAMA, funnily enough sugar free drinks made kids even more hyper.
Cholesterol in eggs is bad for your heart. Since the 60's when this was reported study after study after study has shown this to be false.
Lightning never strikes the same place twice. It does, all the time.
and on and on and on... You get the idea.
Not really. You seem to be equating known falsehoods with evidence based conclusions.
Unless the theory they refer to is widely established.
Simply put, Axehilt wants me to prove that pre-order packs make money, a fact that is widely established and in the public realm.... I refuse to because he is hiding behind his own intellectual laziness. This does not make him right, it makes him disingenuous.
For starters, it was once "widely established" that the earth is flat. So no, common opinions aren't a replacement for evidence.
Second, this isn't about whether they make money. This is about whether they make lots of money. Enough that they can ignore retention (even though clearly retention would still be beneficial to them, as they make F2P games with ongoing microtransactions and they'd be fools to run their limited reputation into the ground chasing after pre-order after pre-order.)
Look, this isn't complicated: If the article exists, just link it! If PWE says they get the majority of their revenue from pre-orders over the lifetime of their games, then that's what actually happened and proves your claim. Unlike other posters, just because I started this discussion challenging your position that doesn't mean I'm going to stay on this side if you have objective evidence proving what you say. A lot of posters in these forums will stare objective evidence in the face and refuse to admit they're wrong. I am not one of those posters.
Actually the whole "Earth is Flat" thing is widely exaggerated. It was never a real thing, Christopher Columbus thought that the world was smaller than everyone else did (so sailing West to Asia would be a good idea) but they all thought it was round and had done so for thousands of years.
For the rest, I would like to see that article too.
For starters, it was once "widely established" that the earth is flat. So no, common opinions aren't a replacement for evidence.
No it wasn't. We can see a circular shadow on the moon or a curved horizon on the ocean... we have known the world was round for time immemorial. The church had even estimated its circumference which is why they advised Columbus not to try to circumnavigate it as he would run out of supplies.
Again, this information is widely available. If you choose not to read it that is your prerogative.
Yes .. yes Mr Axehilt you will need to provide links and evidence that the world was once flat or your case is without merit and substance .. or of course you could argue with Pythogoras and Aristotle ... but dam they wont be able to provide links either .. this is quite a conondrum
, but the way the MMO market has gone about it would be like having twenty different almost indistinguishable fun parks opened in one town.
Note: I've been sick as a dog, if my post makes no sense my apologies lol...
Not for me really, as to me the most distinguishing characteristic of themeparks (what's on the market now) is the property itself, which is highly different from game to game. This dictates a lot about how an overall game feels for me, this is a big part in why I've only played a few of them at any length. AOC, SWTOR and ESO... that is basically it. These games feel drastically different than each other to me, in world/atmosphere... Not to mention the many differences in game-play between the three.
I can imagine this being the case for folks who play them solely to level through them and reach some point in them, while having no desire to really dig into the story that is going on within. Then again I am not sure why that type is playing a themepark in the first place. Especially more than one.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Comments
Again, this information is widely available. If you choose not to read it that is your prerogative.
The spherical earth concept didn't really make an appearance till 6th century BC.
I don't think strict pve game play will get it's allure back. At least not for me. It's all been done before. It's just reskin after reskin. I don't think I'm the only one. Some just will not admit, or have not realized, so they bounce from game to game looking for that fresh feeling.
If reskins are all that is offered then yes, players will bounce back and forth but I don't think that has to do with PvP at all. I think it has to do with MMOs as a whole melding into a non-descript blob devoid of new ideas.
And challenge and immersion. If the game isn't at that right level of challenge, then I get bored. I only have so many years left to live, and I want to play some challenging content, please. This often means PvP. I think this is why the MOBA and TCG and FPS arena formats are so popular. It used to be the goal: max level, tweek your gear, PvP or Raid. Now you can skip all the beginning stuff; it's just the way it is.
It'd be really cool to have the option to log-in to an MMORPG as an NPC, weak and trivial, no great stats, but getting bonuses for doing some sort of menial task like: give 5 adventuring heroes a quest. Except you could do it through local chatting with them or something. I don't know where that came from, but whatever. Oh! the immersion part. Yes. Challenge me and immerse me, and I will play for the longevity of the game.
And...evolve over time (I think this a new standard anyways).
Gaming since 1985; Online gaming since 1995; No End in Sight! My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8POVoJ8fdOseuJ4U1ZX-oA
In the last few years alone, I've stayed with Uncharted Waters Online, Guild Wars 2, and Neverwinter each for several months at a time.
Nevertheless, your point is salvageable in a meta way. It is commonly believed today that it used to be widely believed that that the earth was flat, but that doesn't mean that there actually used to be a bunch of people who thought that the earth was flat.
Everyone believes mother babies will abandon their chicks if humans touch them. Completely wrong.
Everyone believes sugar makes kids hyper. Not according to the JAMA, funnily enough sugar free drinks made kids even more hyper.
Cholesterol in eggs is bad for your heart. Since the 60's when this was reported study after study after study has shown this to be false.
Lightning never strikes the same place twice. It does, all the time.
and on and on and on...
You get the idea.
For the rest, I would like to see that article too.
http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2013/05/people-in-columbus-time-did-not-think-the-world-was-flat/
Not for me really, as to me the most distinguishing characteristic of themeparks (what's on the market now) is the property itself, which is highly different from game to game. This dictates a lot about how an overall game feels for me, this is a big part in why I've only played a few of them at any length. AOC, SWTOR and ESO... that is basically it. These games feel drastically different than each other to me, in world/atmosphere... Not to mention the many differences in game-play between the three.
I can imagine this being the case for folks who play them solely to level through them and reach some point in them, while having no desire to really dig into the story that is going on within. Then again I am not sure why that type is playing a themepark in the first place. Especially more than one.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson