"This isn’t an article about the evils of free to play manipulation to
get you to spend money. This is about how we can target you, because we
(and our partners) know everything about you. We know where you live,
we know your income level, we know your relationships, your favorite
sports teams, your political preferences. We know when you go to work,
and where you work. We can target an event to start for you when we
know you have a long weekend coming up. We own you."
What arrogance. What selfish evil intent.
Would someone tell these bozos, and all the financial elite that believe the same delusions, that no human beings "own" anyone else. I am owned by my Creator. If these bozos want to dispute that they can take that up with Him.... and I would love to see them try.
First of all, you're wrong. There really isn't such a thing as "too many" games. There are hundreds of games released each year and I've never heard someone say "That's too many!" Also, I've never heard a game that was a failure be blamed on "too many games in the genre". The issue isn't too many games...at all!
Let me ask you a question. How many subscription games do you play? Personally, I have played many, but I never maintain more than a single subscription at a time. Why would I? I'm either completely involved with one game, or I'm not. Why would I pay for something I'm not using? I KNOW there's evidence out there supporting this idea, but I can't put my fingers on it. However, the idea is that the majority of people will only maintain one, maybe two subscriptions. How many single-player games have you played recently? I've played 5, at least, in the last 60 days. How many F2P or B2P MMO games have you played in the last 60 days? I've probably played 3 or 4.
In a round-about way you're right. There are too many games to have the subscription model be viable, but it's more about limited capacity than it is about having too many games. Previously, MMORPGs were successful due to a lack of variety. You played X, Y, or Z or you played some other game. That's not really what you are promoting is it? Lack of choice?
With regards to your second point, your numbers are so out-to-lunch it's ridiculous. Games would KILL for 500k subs. You do realize that there are MAYBE a handful (or fewer) games maintaining that number of subscriptions, right? If you're building a subscription MMO and you want it to be sustainable, you better shoot for more around the 10-50k mark. Problem is that aiming low like this, means ROI for investors is beyond what is acceptable. It isn't that investors are, necessarily, in a rush to get their money back, but when the life-span of MMOs is so short, why wouldn't they want money sooner rather than later?
Finally, again, you are so out-to-lunch it's not even funny. If a F2P game could get 10 million people to give them $5 year, every year, they would be jumping up and down for joy. For the vast majority of MMOs, that would be a success. The reality is that when sub numbers start to drop, we need to decide whether to change our model (pro-actively) or wait and see if we're going to have to give Alex and his 4 kids their walking papers and hope he will land on his feet.
I MMOs cost what today? 100 Million or more. That can be sustainable by 500K to 1 Million subs no problem. The problem is there are TOO MANY GAMES. Every game I have played outside of 1 in the last 7 years is throw away. In my past when I had time I maintained 2 to 3 Subscription MMOs and had enough time to play them all. Today I Maintain 1 Subscription MMO, and play 0 other games because FFXIV takes all of my Free Time for Games which is 10 to 15 hours a week. The rest of the time is for Family, my Career and going out and doing other things.
How many Single player games do I play now? 0. Why because I dont want a single player game I can play in 30 hours and be done with it. Seriously I want to play a game like Dragon Warrior, or Final Fantasy 1/3, or chrono trigger, or Neverwinter Nights 1/2. All of which take upwards of 100 or so hours to play. Something that I am willing to pay $60 for several hundred hours of game play vs what is today a throw away game after about 30 hours of game play.
How many F2P B2P games have I played in the last 60 days? 0. Why because they are all P2W or complete Garbage. Why would I want to play the Neverwinter MMO and pay for keys that open up chest that MIGHT have a piece of gear for me, Sorry its more like a Casino. Why would I want to play GW2 which is really more of a hack and slash game much like Diablo 1/2/3 is where I could just pay 60 and play by myself. Why would I play ArcheAge where there are hacks when it comes to land, plus PVP, plus if you spend enough money you can be one of the best PVPers on the server.
I personally would rather see a game shut down that go to P2W tactics and try to sell me on why I should deal with all the negatives in a F2P game. You get a worse community in a F2P game, yes you can have a WOW like community in a P2P game but that is because WOW dont ban anyone anymore. I could call someone the N word and get a 3 day suspension in WOW, in FFXIV I would be band forever.
Now with that said I can accept WOW;s F2P model because its more of a RMT between players. I pay for your sub for a month for X amount of gold. To me thats 100 times more acceptable than F2P cash shop MMOs. Why? I am not going to play a game where stuff I either have to spend time grinding for Gold to buy a cash shop item OR have to spend real money on it just so I dont have to grind gold? I want it to where I spend $15 a month to play a game and get everything in the game and it takes my effort to do. Not where real money is involved beyond the sub.
Side Note: countless MMOs survived on 250K to 1 Million subs with no problem. FFXIV is still doing well as a Sub MMO with between 500K to 1 Million Subs.
It comes down to TOO many MMOs that are of a poor quality to warrant a $15 a month sub. Now if you ask me what Dollar amount is SWTOR worth if it was not F2P. $9.99 I would say. And If the sub was that much without a cash shop I would play it on the side still. Why dont I? Well I dont want to grind Credits to buy some of the looks they have in the game that are Cash Shop only gear. I would rather be spending time running the Operations and either crafting that gear, or doing some crazy long quest, or having to explorer in the game, or running a flash point. How much would Neverwinter be for me? $5.99 and I would sub to the game.
Now yes I have limited time. However I am a type that would Juggle raiding on 2 different games without a problem with nearly the same crew if it was fun. I would sub to both games if they were in the right sub range and well they were not WOW. So its not hard to survive as a Sub game.
Now why am I against F2P? When I really sit down and think about it. My problem is at the CORE of F2P is the cash shop and spending more time having developers revolve around the cash shop than making in game content. Now if F2P was like WOW's token system where said player need to pay with a sub with the token and I as someone who has money was to do a RMT for tokens that I could sell for Gold or Credits or what ever. I am golden with that. WHY? Because all that stuff that I might want should be in game where I need to go get it and not grind gold for it. Maybe grinding gold for a mount where the same kind of mounts I can get in other ways I am cool with. I am just not ok with F2P at all right now and its ruined any chance I will play another F2P game again.
Free to play games and microtransactions are bad for gamers and bad for devs. I avoid both like the plague. Single player games and sub MMOs are what I support. I will never pay for DLC or for a microtransaction. Ever.
DLC in itself is not bad if that DLC is what it was originally supposed to be, extra content produced after the game has been released. In recent times however that vision has been corrupted and we are seeing more and more content being cut from games so that it can be sold as DLC on day one, which in effect is ripping off the gamer by getting them to pay twice for a complete game. The worst example so far being the protheon from mass effect.
Some day one DLC has been around for years without being called that. They used to be called pre-order incentives; but these were generally cosmetic and not really needed. An example of this today is with the day one DLC for the soon to be released Grand Ages : Medieval. It is purely cosmetic and adds nothing whatsoever to gameplay, so those that don't have it are not missing out on anything. If they were then we would be in the realms of the types of DLC that EA puts out.
F2P primarily exists because of (whales) people with bad spending habits or are willing to spend far more than the value it has. Since those people aren't going away neither is F2P games effort put largely in getting players to spend money over a making better game. Still, ironically somehow I find F2P games more honest and interested in making good games compared to some singleplayer games. Such games that want to sell you the game, the "exclusive" DLC content with gameplay via preorder, or other "exclusives" only in a 100-200 $ version of the game all while you don't know what it is exactly you are buying or the value it actually has.
Gonna shorten this since we're both novelists. Anyway, yes, you're right, a $100 million MMO isn't unheard of anymore. I wouldn't say it's the norm. Even WoW, back in the day, cost like $60 million to develop. So if you're shooting for something big, then you're going to have to spend the money. SWTOR was another. Completely voice-acted, crazy amounts of dialogue, individual class stories which were relatively long. That's all expensive stuff. I would never put a restriction saying that we should give up on MMORPG development because there are too many games. SWTOR is amazing and has actually done a LOT of new feature development over the years, since their conversion from subscription.
Today, I would question what game is worth $15 a month. The problem is that, as humans, we are going to have a mental comparison list and when we really put one game up against any other game (including F2P), it's REALLY tough to say "Yes, I'd much rather pay." I've played my fair share of cookie-cutter, anime-style MMORPGs in my day and the reason for such a large number of cookie-cutter MMOs is simply that they have gotten really good at making them quickly, quality or not, and making money quickly. It's an assembly-line mentality.
Again, I think it's really near-sighted to assume that developers are concentrating more on cash shop items than content. They generally have teams for each, complete with monetization experts. The idea that a level designer is going to move over and start making cash shop items isn't always accurate. That isn't to say that the cash shop isn't going to be obnoxious. There are times when it will be. However, content also, generally, gets rolled out relatively frequently, even compared to subscription, if not quicker. Remember that it's not really advantageous for Subscription games to roll out new content. F2P games can charge for new content, sell items to progress through new content, etc., etc. So I feel like there are some fallacies in your statements. I can't disagree that quality is questionable at times, but that's always why we have review sites. If people didn't play the crappy games, then it would force companies to make better games.
Gonna shorten this since we're both novelists. Anyway, yes, you're right, a $100 million MMO isn't unheard of anymore. I wouldn't say it's the norm. Even WoW, back in the day, cost like $60 million to develop. So if you're shooting for something big, then you're going to have to spend the money. SWTOR was another. Completely voice-acted, crazy amounts of dialogue, individual class stories which were relatively long. That's all expensive stuff. I would never put a restriction saying that we should give up on MMORPG development because there are too many games. SWTOR is amazing and has actually done a LOT of new feature development over the years, since their conversion from subscription.
Today, I would question what game is worth $15 a month. The problem is that, as humans, we are going to have a mental comparison list and when we really put one game up against any other game (including F2P), it's REALLY tough to say "Yes, I'd much rather pay." I've played my fair share of cookie-cutter, anime-style MMORPGs in my day and the reason for such a large number of cookie-cutter MMOs is simply that they have gotten really good at making them quickly, quality or not, and making money quickly. It's an assembly-line mentality.
Again, I think it's really near-sighted to assume that developers are concentrating more on cash shop items than content. They generally have teams for each, complete with monetization experts. The idea that a level designer is going to move over and start making cash shop items isn't always accurate. That isn't to say that the cash shop isn't going to be obnoxious. There are times when it will be. However, content also, generally, gets rolled out relatively frequently, even compared to subscription, if not quicker. Remember that it's not really advantageous for Subscription games to roll out new content. F2P games can charge for new content, sell items to progress through new content, etc., etc. So I feel like there are some fallacies in your statements. I can't disagree that quality is questionable at times, but that's always why we have review sites. If people didn't play the crappy games, then it would force companies to make better games.
Yea we tend to write too much
Anyways it seems we have some common ground here. Lets start with the Cash Shops. At first when games like DDO, LOTRO and a few others went F2P I thought that was good because the cash shops were not overly done to where content and just about everything they can put into the cash shop went into the cash shop. It gave me a chance to try both games for 2 or more months then spend money on the game. The problem is now cash shops have gone to the wrong end. For example ArcheAge had Archeum dust which was so critical to crafting and the drop rates in game were so low that crafters that really wanted to do real heavy crafting bought them for real money. Also the Labor Points we would have to buy and keep chugging them on all our characters every 12 hours. This starts to become a credit card game even with a subscription and was poorly designed. And yes you know by the way they designed it F2P that they knew they would make a killing off of stuff like this. Add to that that people could spend thousands of dollars just to own so much land on the server. Again Poor design and I dont have that type of money to play a wallet game.
As for Content some Sub games like WOW have been really bad at coming out with content and F2P games can be faster only because they will throw it in the cash shop and make people pay for it. Again yes its faster but again its a bad tactic. FFXIV has for over 2 years now come out with 3 to 4 dungeons each patch that is 3 to 4 months apart. That is a good design by a P2P game and its not hard to do its you have to have the setup to do it. Now if the game is on the low end of the spectrum for sub numbers yea it can be hard. If they are like WOW there is no excuse for it.
The reason why I say there are too many MMOs is you go and try other games and many feel like a ghost town. They are only propped up by a few Whales that are willing to spend so much money that it keeps the game running. Not because the game is good. Now with that said I am even off the mind of closing down older MMOs because at some point even these games keep the population too spread out.
As for Crappy games. The only reason some people play them is they can play them for free. And many of those players will not spend a dime. I forget where there is a report on F2P games however there was one report that a large number of players never spent any money on them. That is the only reason why people are playing Crappy games. To me if the game sucks it does not matter if its F2P or P2P; I will not play it. However there are some that hates X game then when it goes F2P its the greatest game until the next game they hate goes F2P.
Anyways it seems we have some common ground here. Lets start with the Cash Shops. At first when games like DDO, LOTRO and a few others went F2P I thought that was good because the cash shops were not overly done to where content and just about everything they can put into the cash shop went into the cash shop. It gave me a chance to try both games for 2 or more months then spend money on the game. The problem is now cash shops have gone to the wrong end. For example ArcheAge had Archeum dust which was so critical to crafting and the drop rates in game were so low that crafters that really wanted to do real heavy crafting bought them for real money. Also the Labor Points we would have to buy and keep chugging them on all our characters every 12 hours. This starts to become a credit card game even with a subscription and was poorly designed. And yes you know by the way they designed it F2P that they knew they would make a killing off of stuff like this. Add to that that people could spend thousands of dollars just to own so much land on the server. Again Poor design and I dont have that type of money to play a wallet game.
As for Content some Sub games like WOW have been really bad at coming out with content and F2P games can be faster only because they will throw it in the cash shop and make people pay for it. Again yes its faster but again its a bad tactic. FFXIV has for over 2 years now come out with 3 to 4 dungeons each patch that is 3 to 4 months apart. That is a good design by a P2P game and its not hard to do its you have to have the setup to do it. Now if the game is on the low end of the spectrum for sub numbers yea it can be hard. If they are like WOW there is no excuse for it.
The reason why I say there are too many MMOs is you go and try other games and many feel like a ghost town. They are only propped up by a few Whales that are willing to spend so much money that it keeps the game running. Not because the game is good. Now with that said I am even off the mind of closing down older MMOs because at some point even these games keep the population too spread out.
As for Crappy games. The only reason some people play them is they can play them for free. And many of those players will not spend a dime. I forget where there is a report on F2P games however there was one report that a large number of players never spent any money on them. That is the only reason why people are playing Crappy games. To me if the game sucks it does not matter if its F2P or P2P; I will not play it. However there are some that hates X game then when it goes F2P its the greatest game until the next game they hate goes F2P.
Yeah, I can agree with ArcheAge. I can't really blame ArcheAge, though. For some reason, developers in the Asian market think that North Americans have a metric shit-ton of money. That's why you see games developed in North America or EU being a little more grounded. Also, paying for games in Asia-Pacific countries is nothing new and is actually quite acceptable, so it's not really taboo for them, either. I did an interview with a company promoting an anime-style game. One of the core components was this dance system where you could choreograph your own dances, etc. For me that was just NOT a core piece of gameplay that I would have concentrated on, but I guess it was a big deal. Same goes for vanity items in the cash shop. All about the target market.
I have NOT played FFXIV. I played the beta and it seemed a little too much on the grindy side of things for me in my, now, filthy-casual state of mind. I probably will play it at some point, though, and I've heard lots of great things about it.
Trust me, you're preaching to the choir. I used to review F2P games and it's like.. "EYES BLEEDING!!!!!" The whales are really important to the industry itself, but you're right, it usually comes down to the few supporting the masses. There are, actually, some really good games out there, though. We just, generally, don't see them because of the surrounding stigma of F2P.
I don't think that people will play a free game for the sake of playing a free game. It's certainly a motivating factor. There are others, though, too. In my time, I've actually found that some will play low-population games just to be "the best". Another MAJOR problem for P2P is that people WILL wait now. They are like vultures. For instance, when ESO was released, I played (and subbed to) that. I wanted to play Wildstar, too, but I just left that until it went F2P because I didn't have the time to give it.
One poster summed it up best. It keeps happening because people keep supporting it.Why are people so dumb or are they that dumb?
I don't know why people always equate something that they won't do as "dumb".
While I don't pay for IAPs in mobile games, I don't see why a well-to-do person should not spend his money (no matter how silly it seems to you) on whatever he pleases.
Are the people who spend $500 on a fancy meal "dumb"? The enjoyment of a meal is probably shorter than wearing a vanity IAP item.
Poor whales. You know, the ones who always say "i do what i want with my money", always supporting the wrong side of the spectrum. Now suffer.. In your face, they own you, your money, and your data.
Whales don't care.
but what ever makes you feel better in your own life, I guess.
hmm .. is there a problem if I support the whales right to get fleeced? So what if they are owned. It is their choices.
One poster summed it up best. It keeps happening because people keep supporting it.Why are people so dumb or are they that dumb?
I don't know why people always equate something that they won't do as "dumb".
While I don't pay for IAPs in mobile games, I don't see why a well-to-do person should not spend his money (no matter how silly it seems to you) on whatever he pleases.
Are the people who spend $500 on a fancy meal "dumb"? The enjoyment of a meal is probably shorter than wearing a vanity IAP item.
I look at it from the perspective of enjoyment. If I'm spending 5-10 hours a week on a game, I'm getting pretty good value if I'm throwing $10 or $20 a month at it. Right? I don't feel guilty for NOT spending money. Some games I feel cater to whales. I play one game, probably, 15 hours a week on mobile right now. In my first 30 days, I spent $5 on an "Introductory Offer!!!" that will never come around again!!! Since then, comparable offers are like $40. If they actually had "Sales" on these offers on a monthly basis, I would probably spend $5 or $10 a month. As it stands right now, I haven't spent a dime past that first month. Not until I see something that seems like a value to me, as related to the game itself.
One poster summed it up best. It keeps happening because people keep supporting it.Why are people so dumb or are they that dumb?
I don't know why people always equate something that they won't do as "dumb".
While I don't pay for IAPs in mobile games, I don't see why a well-to-do person should not spend his money (no matter how silly it seems to you) on whatever he pleases.
Are the people who spend $500 on a fancy meal "dumb"? The enjoyment of a meal is probably shorter than wearing a vanity IAP item.
I look at it from the perspective of enjoyment. If I'm spending 5-10 hours a week on a game, I'm getting pretty good value if I'm throwing $10 or $20 a month at it. Right? I don't feel guilty for NOT spending money. Some games I feel cater to whales. I play one game, probably, 15 hours a week on mobile right now. In my first 30 days, I spent $5 on an "Introductory Offer!!!" that will never come around again!!! Since then, comparable offers are like $40. If they actually had "Sales" on these offers on a monthly basis, I would probably spend $5 or $10 a month. As it stands right now, I haven't spent a dime past that first month. Not until I see something that seems like a value to me, as related to the game itself.
But that is the perspective of YOUR enjoyment, and i believe you know that everyone has a different measure.
What is good value to you .. may be different for others. If I am a billionaire (which i am not), throwing away $500 for 10 seconds of amusement may be "good value" .. because I will never run out of money.
This is no different than a fine meal or wine. Personally i love wine, but I cannot afford anything at the multiple hundred of dollars level. And my tongue probably cannot tell the difference between a $100 bottle of while vs a $500 one. (Well, i probably can tell between a cheap $20 vs a good $80 one though ... at least i believe so).
And i know those who can afford and tell the difference between very expensive wines. Who are we to say $500 wines are not good value for them, if they can indeed tell the difference, and afford it?
One poster summed it up best. It keeps happening because people keep supporting it.Why are people so dumb or are they that dumb?
I don't know why people always equate something that they won't do as "dumb".
While I don't pay for IAPs in mobile games, I don't see why a well-to-do person should not spend his money (no matter how silly it seems to you) on whatever he pleases.
Are the people who spend $500 on a fancy meal "dumb"? The enjoyment of a meal is probably shorter than wearing a vanity IAP item.
I look at it from the perspective of enjoyment. If I'm spending 5-10 hours a week on a game, I'm getting pretty good value if I'm throwing $10 or $20 a month at it. Right? I don't feel guilty for NOT spending money. Some games I feel cater to whales. I play one game, probably, 15 hours a week on mobile right now. In my first 30 days, I spent $5 on an "Introductory Offer!!!" that will never come around again!!! Since then, comparable offers are like $40. If they actually had "Sales" on these offers on a monthly basis, I would probably spend $5 or $10 a month. As it stands right now, I haven't spent a dime past that first month. Not until I see something that seems like a value to me, as related to the game itself.
But that is the perspective of YOUR enjoyment, and i believe you know that everyone has a different measure.
What is good value to you .. may be different for others. If I am a billionaire (which i am not), throwing away $500 for 10 seconds of amusement may be "good value" .. because I will never run out of money.
This is no different than a fine meal or wine. Personally i love wine, but I cannot afford anything at the multiple hundred of dollars level. And my tongue probably cannot tell the difference between a $100 bottle of while vs a $500 one. (Well, i probably can tell between a cheap $20 vs a good $80 one though ... at least i believe so).
And i know those who can afford and tell the difference between very expensive wines. Who are we to say $500 wines are not good value for them, if they can indeed tell the difference, and afford it?
Agreed! Checked your agreed box and then responded just to re-iterate my agreement. I think it's the differentiation that people have a problem with. It's like society leaking into games. Personally I don't have a problem with it. MMORPGs are, actually, relatively tame compared to some of the mobile games out there right now. As far as slot machines go, I don't play them regularly, but I will from time-to-time.
"This isn’t an article about the evils of free to play manipulation to
get you to spend money. This is about how we can target you, because we
(and our partners) know everything about you. We know where you live,
we know your income level, we know your relationships, your favorite
sports teams, your political preferences. We know when you go to work,
and where you work. We can target an event to start for you when we
know you have a long weekend coming up. We own you."
What arrogance. What selfish evil intent.
Would someone tell these bozos, and all the financial elite that believe the same delusions, that no human beings "own" anyone else. I am owned by my Creator. If these bozos want to dispute that they can take that up with Him.... and I would love to see them try.
Targeting is marketing.
These people still have to have a product that targets my need/want. They are just using targeting as a means to find people who they think will play their game.
Same thing as a commercial... who targets everyone in hopes of viewers finding their product. Targeting means their product is ONLY good for a small group. That is why their are target shooting.
"This isn’t an article about the evils of free to play manipulation to
get you to spend money. This is about how we can target you, because we
(and our partners) know everything about you. We know where you live,
we know your income level, we know your relationships, your favorite
sports teams, your political preferences. We know when you go to work,
and where you work. We can target an event to start for you when we
know you have a long weekend coming up. We own you."
What arrogance. What selfish evil intent.
Would someone tell these bozos, and all the financial elite that believe the same delusions, that no human beings "own" anyone else. I am owned by my Creator. If these bozos want to dispute that they can take that up with Him.... and I would love to see them try.
Targeting is marketing.
These people still have to have a product that targets my need/want. They are just using targeting as a means to find people who they think will play their game.
Same thing as a commercial... who targets everyone in hopes of viewers finding their product. Targeting means their product is ONLY good for a small group. That is why their are target shooting.
and targeting is a good thing. If they don't target, they will be annoying a lot of people who have no interests in games.
Plus, even if they market to you, you are free to ignore them. This "own" thing is just silly.
Targeting is a self-induced measure of support. Giving someone a false sense of forwardness. Because even if you target, it does not mean you are right, or even if they will buy your product.
It only means you got their info and are attempting to persuade.
A Commercial is out there, and whomever is interested in will take notice.
Comments
"This isn’t an article about the evils of free to play manipulation to get you to spend money. This is about how we can target you, because we (and our partners) know everything about you. We know where you live, we know your income level, we know your relationships, your favorite sports teams, your political preferences. We know when you go to work, and where you work. We can target an event to start for you when we know you have a long weekend coming up. We own you."
What arrogance. What selfish evil intent.
Would someone tell these bozos, and all the financial elite that believe the same delusions, that no human beings "own" anyone else. I am owned by my Creator. If these bozos want to dispute that they can take that up with Him.... and I would love to see them try.
How many Single player games do I play now? 0. Why because I dont want a single player game I can play in 30 hours and be done with it. Seriously I want to play a game like Dragon Warrior, or Final Fantasy 1/3, or chrono trigger, or Neverwinter Nights 1/2. All of which take upwards of 100 or so hours to play. Something that I am willing to pay $60 for several hundred hours of game play vs what is today a throw away game after about 30 hours of game play.
How many F2P B2P games have I played in the last 60 days? 0. Why because they are all P2W or complete Garbage. Why would I want to play the Neverwinter MMO and pay for keys that open up chest that MIGHT have a piece of gear for me, Sorry its more like a Casino. Why would I want to play GW2 which is really more of a hack and slash game much like Diablo 1/2/3 is where I could just pay 60 and play by myself. Why would I play ArcheAge where there are hacks when it comes to land, plus PVP, plus if you spend enough money you can be one of the best PVPers on the server.
I personally would rather see a game shut down that go to P2W tactics and try to sell me on why I should deal with all the negatives in a F2P game. You get a worse community in a F2P game, yes you can have a WOW like community in a P2P game but that is because WOW dont ban anyone anymore. I could call someone the N word and get a 3 day suspension in WOW, in FFXIV I would be band forever.
Now with that said I can accept WOW;s F2P model because its more of a RMT between players. I pay for your sub for a month for X amount of gold. To me thats 100 times more acceptable than F2P cash shop MMOs. Why? I am not going to play a game where stuff I either have to spend time grinding for Gold to buy a cash shop item OR have to spend real money on it just so I dont have to grind gold? I want it to where I spend $15 a month to play a game and get everything in the game and it takes my effort to do. Not where real money is involved beyond the sub.
Side Note: countless MMOs survived on 250K to 1 Million subs with no problem. FFXIV is still doing well as a Sub MMO with between 500K to 1 Million Subs.
It comes down to TOO many MMOs that are of a poor quality to warrant a $15 a month sub. Now if you ask me what Dollar amount is SWTOR worth if it was not F2P. $9.99 I would say. And If the sub was that much without a cash shop I would play it on the side still. Why dont I? Well I dont want to grind Credits to buy some of the looks they have in the game that are Cash Shop only gear. I would rather be spending time running the Operations and either crafting that gear, or doing some crazy long quest, or having to explorer in the game, or running a flash point. How much would Neverwinter be for me? $5.99 and I would sub to the game.
Now yes I have limited time. However I am a type that would Juggle raiding on 2 different games without a problem with nearly the same crew if it was fun. I would sub to both games if they were in the right sub range and well they were not WOW. So its not hard to survive as a Sub game.
Now why am I against F2P? When I really sit down and think about it. My problem is at the CORE of F2P is the cash shop and spending more time having developers revolve around the cash shop than making in game content. Now if F2P was like WOW's token system where said player need to pay with a sub with the token and I as someone who has money was to do a RMT for tokens that I could sell for Gold or Credits or what ever. I am golden with that. WHY? Because all that stuff that I might want should be in game where I need to go get it and not grind gold for it. Maybe grinding gold for a mount where the same kind of mounts I can get in other ways I am cool with. I am just not ok with F2P at all right now and its ruined any chance I will play another F2P game again.
DLC in itself is not bad if that DLC is what it was originally supposed to be, extra content produced after the game has been released. In recent times however that vision has been corrupted and we are seeing more and more content being cut from games so that it can be sold as DLC on day one, which in effect is ripping off the gamer by getting them to pay twice for a complete game. The worst example so far being the protheon from mass effect.
Some day one DLC has been around for years without being called that. They used to be called pre-order incentives; but these were generally cosmetic and not really needed. An example of this today is with the day one DLC for the soon to be released Grand Ages : Medieval. It is purely cosmetic and adds nothing whatsoever to gameplay, so those that don't have it are not missing out on anything. If they were then we would be in the realms of the types of DLC that EA puts out.
Still, ironically somehow I find F2P games more honest and interested in making good games compared to some singleplayer games. Such games that want to sell you the game, the "exclusive" DLC content with gameplay via preorder, or other "exclusives" only in a 100-200 $ version of the game all while you don't know what it is exactly you are buying or the value it actually has.
Gonna shorten this since we're both novelists. Anyway, yes, you're right, a $100 million MMO isn't unheard of anymore. I wouldn't say it's the norm. Even WoW, back in the day, cost like $60 million to develop. So if you're shooting for something big, then you're going to have to spend the money. SWTOR was another. Completely voice-acted, crazy amounts of dialogue, individual class stories which were relatively long. That's all expensive stuff. I would never put a restriction saying that we should give up on MMORPG development because there are too many games. SWTOR is amazing and has actually done a LOT of new feature development over the years, since their conversion from subscription.
Today, I would question what game is worth $15 a month. The problem is that, as humans, we are going to have a mental comparison list and when we really put one game up against any other game (including F2P), it's REALLY tough to say "Yes, I'd much rather pay." I've played my fair share of cookie-cutter, anime-style MMORPGs in my day and the reason for such a large number of cookie-cutter MMOs is simply that they have gotten really good at making them quickly, quality or not, and making money quickly. It's an assembly-line mentality.
Again, I think it's really near-sighted to assume that developers are concentrating more on cash shop items than content. They generally have teams for each, complete with monetization experts. The idea that a level designer is going to move over and start making cash shop items isn't always accurate. That isn't to say that the cash shop isn't going to be obnoxious. There are times when it will be. However, content also, generally, gets rolled out relatively frequently, even compared to subscription, if not quicker. Remember that it's not really advantageous for Subscription games to roll out new content. F2P games can charge for new content, sell items to progress through new content, etc., etc. So I feel like there are some fallacies in your statements. I can't disagree that quality is questionable at times, but that's always why we have review sites. If people didn't play the crappy games, then it would force companies to make better games.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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Anyways it seems we have some common ground here. Lets start with the Cash Shops. At first when games like DDO, LOTRO and a few others went F2P I thought that was good because the cash shops were not overly done to where content and just about everything they can put into the cash shop went into the cash shop. It gave me a chance to try both games for 2 or more months then spend money on the game. The problem is now cash shops have gone to the wrong end. For example ArcheAge had Archeum dust which was so critical to crafting and the drop rates in game were so low that crafters that really wanted to do real heavy crafting bought them for real money. Also the Labor Points we would have to buy and keep chugging them on all our characters every 12 hours. This starts to become a credit card game even with a subscription and was poorly designed. And yes you know by the way they designed it F2P that they knew they would make a killing off of stuff like this. Add to that that people could spend thousands of dollars just to own so much land on the server. Again Poor design and I dont have that type of money to play a wallet game.
As for Content some Sub games like WOW have been really bad at coming out with content and F2P games can be faster only because they will throw it in the cash shop and make people pay for it. Again yes its faster but again its a bad tactic. FFXIV has for over 2 years now come out with 3 to 4 dungeons each patch that is 3 to 4 months apart. That is a good design by a P2P game and its not hard to do its you have to have the setup to do it. Now if the game is on the low end of the spectrum for sub numbers yea it can be hard. If they are like WOW there is no excuse for it.
The reason why I say there are too many MMOs is you go and try other games and many feel like a ghost town. They are only propped up by a few Whales that are willing to spend so much money that it keeps the game running. Not because the game is good. Now with that said I am even off the mind of closing down older MMOs because at some point even these games keep the population too spread out.
As for Crappy games. The only reason some people play them is they can play them for free. And many of those players will not spend a dime. I forget where there is a report on F2P games however there was one report that a large number of players never spent any money on them. That is the only reason why people are playing Crappy games. To me if the game sucks it does not matter if its F2P or P2P; I will not play it. However there are some that hates X game then when it goes F2P its the greatest game until the next game they hate goes F2P.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
I have NOT played FFXIV. I played the beta and it seemed a little too much on the grindy side of things for me in my, now, filthy-casual state of mind. I probably will play it at some point, though, and I've heard lots of great things about it.
Trust me, you're preaching to the choir. I used to review F2P games and it's like.. "EYES BLEEDING!!!!!" The whales are really important to the industry itself, but you're right, it usually comes down to the few supporting the masses. There are, actually, some really good games out there, though. We just, generally, don't see them because of the surrounding stigma of F2P.
I don't think that people will play a free game for the sake of playing a free game. It's certainly a motivating factor. There are others, though, too. In my time, I've actually found that some will play low-population games just to be "the best". Another MAJOR problem for P2P is that people WILL wait now. They are like vultures. For instance, when ESO was released, I played (and subbed to) that. I wanted to play Wildstar, too, but I just left that until it went F2P because I didn't have the time to give it.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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While I don't pay for IAPs in mobile games, I don't see why a well-to-do person should not spend his money (no matter how silly it seems to you) on whatever he pleases.
Are the people who spend $500 on a fancy meal "dumb"? The enjoyment of a meal is probably shorter than wearing a vanity IAP item.
hmm .. is there a problem if I support the whales right to get fleeced? So what if they are owned. It is their choices.
I look at it from the perspective of enjoyment. If I'm spending 5-10 hours a week on a game, I'm getting pretty good value if I'm throwing $10 or $20 a month at it. Right? I don't feel guilty for NOT spending money. Some games I feel cater to whales. I play one game, probably, 15 hours a week on mobile right now. In my first 30 days, I spent $5 on an "Introductory Offer!!!" that will never come around again!!! Since then, comparable offers are like $40. If they actually had "Sales" on these offers on a monthly basis, I would probably spend $5 or $10 a month. As it stands right now, I haven't spent a dime past that first month. Not until I see something that seems like a value to me, as related to the game itself.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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What is good value to you .. may be different for others. If I am a billionaire (which i am not), throwing away $500 for 10 seconds of amusement may be "good value" .. because I will never run out of money.
This is no different than a fine meal or wine. Personally i love wine, but I cannot afford anything at the multiple hundred of dollars level. And my tongue probably cannot tell the difference between a $100 bottle of while vs a $500 one. (Well, i probably can tell between a cheap $20 vs a good $80 one though ... at least i believe so).
And i know those who can afford and tell the difference between very expensive wines. Who are we to say $500 wines are not good value for them, if they can indeed tell the difference, and afford it?
Agreed! Checked your agreed box and then responded just to re-iterate my agreement. I think it's the differentiation that people have a problem with. It's like society leaking into games. Personally I don't have a problem with it. MMORPGs are, actually, relatively tame compared to some of the mobile games out there right now. As far as slot machines go, I don't play them regularly, but I will from time-to-time.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
Targeting is marketing.
These people still have to have a product that targets my need/want. They are just using targeting as a means to find people who they think will play their game.
Same thing as a commercial... who targets everyone in hopes of viewers finding their product. Targeting means their product is ONLY good for a small group. That is why their are target shooting.
Plus, even if they market to you, you are free to ignore them. This "own" thing is just silly.
Targeting is a self-induced measure of support. Giving someone a false sense of forwardness. Because even if you target, it does not mean you are right, or even if they will buy your product.
It only means you got their info and are attempting to persuade.
A Commercial is out there, and whomever is interested in will take notice.