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Star Citizen Employees Speak Out on Project Woes!

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Comments

  • AnnaTSAnnaTS Member UncommonPosts: 600
    edited October 2015
    Thourne said:
    AnnaTS said:


    Plus i would have doubt in a person who wanted to play around with other peoples money but not their own.
    From this are we to take it that you don't trust any publicly traded entity or partnership?
    They all use someone else s money to some degree.

    Well that is how it is if you want a business loan, you know people get rejected a loan if they don't like your business plan it's a firm NO you can't have a loan.

    You put a reasonable comment and that is the reply i got. lol
  • BMBenderBMBender Member UncommonPosts: 827
    Thourne said:
    BMBender said:
    Thourne said:
    BMBender said:
    Thourne said:
    BMBender said:
    Thourne said:
    AnnaTS said:




    It's still apples/oranges
    Agreed. I asked them about apples and you answered oranges  :pleased: 


    One would assume considering the topic that they were referring to an investment in an un-regulated industry with few precedents.
    I think most of the problems in this thread came about exactly because people have assumed things.
    only if this thread topic was about a mix of published products and independent CF's.  But it isn't it is about a single product and an issue directly related to that product and only that product.  That really shouldn't be that confusing.

    image
  • ThourneThourne Member RarePosts: 757
    AnnaTS said:
    Thourne said:
    AnnaTS said:


    Plus i would have doubt in a person who wanted to play around with other peoples money but not their own.
    From this are we to take it that you don't trust any publicly traded entity or partnership?
    They all use someone else s money to some degree.

    Well that is how it is if you want a business loan, you know people get rejected a loan if they don't like your business plan it's a firm NO you can't have a loan.
    Well that is a reply but it still isn't an answer to the question.
  • AnnaTSAnnaTS Member UncommonPosts: 600
    Thourne said:
    AnnaTS said:
    Thourne said:
    AnnaTS said:


    Plus i would have doubt in a person who wanted to play around with other peoples money but not their own.
    From this are we to take it that you don't trust any publicly traded entity or partnership?
    They all use someone else s money to some degree.

    Well that is how it is if you want a business loan, you know people get rejected a loan if they don't like your business plan it's a firm NO you can't have a loan.
    Well that is a reply but it still isn't an answer to the question.
    I am not answering stupid questions i put a reasonable post and you decided to post back with what you did.
  • ThourneThourne Member RarePosts: 757
    AnnaTS said:
    Thourne said:
    AnnaTS said:
    Thourne said:
    AnnaTS said:


    Plus i would have doubt in a person who wanted to play around with other peoples money but not their own.
    From this are we to take it that you don't trust any publicly traded entity or partnership?
    They all use someone else s money to some degree.

    Well that is how it is if you want a business loan, you know people get rejected a loan if they don't like your business plan it's a firm NO you can't have a loan.
    Well that is a reply but it still isn't an answer to the question.
    I am not answering stupid questions i put a reasonable post and you decided to post back with what you did.
    You put up a response to a question that failed to answer said question. 
    I pointed that out.
    Now you are attacking the question.
    I think I'm done engaging with you.
    You have entered this thread as a neutral who's manta seems to be "I don't know and won't go find out, but here is my uninformed opinion." 
    Not knowing is ok. Asking questions is fine. Wait til you get or go discover the answers to assert your opinion though mate. 
  • MrSnufflesMrSnuffles Member UncommonPosts: 1,117

    We only know a few things about Chris Roberts.

    1. He has produced famous and successful games.

    2. He is very rich already from the games and movies he made before Star Citizen.

    3. He has a previous record of taking way longer than expected to deliver his last  project (freelancer).

    Those people trying to justify the "scam scenario" by saying that Chris Roberts would take the money and run are also ignoring the fact that the entire reason Star Citizen has achieved it's success is because people know and trust Chris Roberts enough to do exactly not that.
    1. He produced 1 famous and successful game. Wing Commander. His original pitch was: "I want WW2 Fighter Planes in Space"
    2. This is pure speculation. If you look closer you will find he lost a lot of money in his "career" as a Movie Producer. He mismanaged funds, projects fell through because of missing funds and he even got sued for $8 million by Kevin Kostner. I doubt he is this incredible wealthy man. I think it is more likely this was a windfall for him because he was in serious financial troubles.
    3. He has previous records of totally fucking up a game and leaving it in a state so bad after 4 years of development that Microsoft had to bail him out and invest another 3 years to fix the mess. I think that says it all.
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    "It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
    - Michael Bitton
    Community Manager, MMORPG.com

    "As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law

    "I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." 
    - SEANMCAD

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  • AnnaTSAnnaTS Member UncommonPosts: 600
    edited October 2015
    Thourne said:
    AnnaTS said:
    Thourne said:
    AnnaTS said:
    Thourne said:
    AnnaTS said:


    Plus i would have doubt in a person who wanted to play around with other peoples money but not their own.
    From this are we to take it that you don't trust any publicly traded entity or partnership?
    They all use someone else s money to some degree.

    Well that is how it is if you want a business loan, you know people get rejected a loan if they don't like your business plan it's a firm NO you can't have a loan.
    Well that is a reply but it still isn't an answer to the question.
    I am not answering stupid questions i put a reasonable post and you decided to post back with what you did.
    You put up a response to a question that failed to answer said question. 
    I pointed that out.
    Now you are attacking the question.
    I think I'm done engaging with you.
    You have entered this thread as a neutral who's manta seems to be "I don't know and won't go find out, but here is my uninformed opinion." 
    Not knowing is ok. Asking questions is fine. Wait til you get or go discover the answers to assert your opinion though mate. 
    Ok fair enough your view just like i have mine.
  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183


    So on the other side, do you think the Escapist is being 100% honest about everything? The id card trouble? The fact that 7(?) separate sources just happened to contact the author within a 2 day period?
    No idea.  I think, they think they got enough credible info to go forward with the story.  Honestly I didn't think much of the story until I read Chris Roberts' first response.  Then their following up with the lawsuit.  I then went back and read the article again.  I find the inclusion of Roberts' response after the fact the most questionable thing from the Escapist honestly.  The spam folder excuse comes off a little weak.  But they did publish it and incorporate it in the story a few hours later.  So who knows about that. 

    As for the stuff you brought up.  The card ID has apparently some discrepancy on what the Escapist was actually shown.  The 7 people in 2 days actually makes sense to me.  They read the article and they felt motivated to reach out.

    All of this would just go away if Roberts could just start a live stream and show everyone what they are working on and how far they are currently on everything.  Other Kickstarter games are doing it.  I think they should too.
    That's the big thing as far as where The Escapist sits in all of this, all they have to do is show an effort to vet these people, that's the extent of their responsibility. Now whether those people are legit, fabricating, telling the truth etc... is not on them what so ever. That falls directly on those bringing forth the allegations. As long as they feel they vetted them to the extent of their ability, they have no need to retract, take down, or apologize.


    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • AnnaTSAnnaTS Member UncommonPosts: 600
    edited October 2015

    We only know a few things about Chris Roberts.

    1. He has produced famous and successful games.

    2. He is very rich already from the games and movies he made before Star Citizen.

    3. He has a previous record of taking way longer than expected to deliver his last  project (freelancer).

    Those people trying to justify the "scam scenario" by saying that Chris Roberts would take the money and run are also ignoring the fact that the entire reason Star Citizen has achieved it's success is because people know and trust Chris Roberts enough to do exactly not that.
    1. He produced 1 famous and successful game. Wing Commander. His original pitch was: "I want WW2 Fighter Planes in Space"
    2. This is pure speculation. If you look closer you will find he lost a lot of money in his "career" as a Movie Producer. He mismanaged funds, projects fell through because of missing funds and he even got sued for $8 million by Kevin Kostner. I doubt he is this incredible wealthy man. I think it is more likely this was a windfall for him because he was in serious financial troubles.
    3. He has previous records of totally fucking up a game and leaving it in a state so bad after 4 years of development that Microsoft had to bail him out and invest another 3 years to fix the mess. I think that says it all.
    I actually knew that it's been mentioned in this forum before, when i said in my previous post i don't know him, i mean't don't know him personally.

    Thanks for going to the effort i should of been more clear to people what i mean't by that.
  • ThourneThourne Member RarePosts: 757
    Distopia said:


    So on the other side, do you think the Escapist is being 100% honest about everything? The id card trouble? The fact that 7(?) separate sources just happened to contact the author within a 2 day period?
    No idea.  I think, they think they got enough credible info to go forward with the story.  Honestly I didn't think much of the story until I read Chris Roberts' first response.  Then their following up with the lawsuit.  I then went back and read the article again.  I find the inclusion of Roberts' response after the fact the most questionable thing from the Escapist honestly.  The spam folder excuse comes off a little weak.  But they did publish it and incorporate it in the story a few hours later.  So who knows about that. 

    As for the stuff you brought up.  The card ID has apparently some discrepancy on what the Escapist was actually shown.  The 7 people in 2 days actually makes sense to me.  They read the article and they felt motivated to reach out.

    All of this would just go away if Roberts could just start a live stream and show everyone what they are working on and how far they are currently on everything.  Other Kickstarter games are doing it.  I think they should too.
    That's the big thing as far as where The Escapist sits in all of this, all they have to do is show an effort to vet these people, that's the extent of their responsibility. Now whether those people are legit, fabricating, telling the truth etc... is not on them what so ever. That falls directly on those bringing forth the allegations. As long as they feel they vetted them to the extent of their ability, they have no need to retract, take down, or apologize.


    I agree that is where they sit.
    I think they wouldn't have had any questions raised if they had done a more balanced approach to their investigation from the beginning. 
    I still believe that they should have contacted CIG and interviewed them directly about the issues, allowed ample time for them to gather data to counter and submit, then reviewed all available evidence from both sides before going to author let alone print the article.
  • MrSnufflesMrSnuffles Member UncommonPosts: 1,117
    ...
    ROFL. Oh yes, some guys who have evidence of criminal wrong-doing would rather be crusaders for the public good than file suit and get a cash-payout like every other person on earth. What "luck" that we have these 7 "anonymous victims" who decided to report their situation to the equivalent of a tabloid rather than seek financial compensation.

    And comparing watergate to something that happens millions of times every year at thousands of companies in the USA? Lmao. Anyone with a job knows how the world really works. All this conjecture about "secret CIG white-knights" who are going to reveal the "scam" and the "wrong-doing" for the public good are living on fantasy island wonderland (aka parents basement). 
    What you conveniently forget in your uneducated rant is that none of these accusations would lead to any financial compensation for the sources (no cash-payout as you like to put it). They have no claims at all. Let's look at the accusations:

    1. Horrible boss that has a short fuse and shouts a lot.... Nope.
    2. Shady hiring practices... Nope. These people are ex-employees so they got hired.
    3. Mismanagement of funds.... Nope.
    4. Embezzlement of funds... Nope.
    5. Wife of boss is a horrible bitch... Nope.

    So now that we have established that none of these claims gives the sources any grounds for a lawsuit that would benefit them financially the rest of us can go back to addressing the real issues.
    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

    "It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
    - Michael Bitton
    Community Manager, MMORPG.com

    "As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law

    "I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." 
    - SEANMCAD

    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    Thourne said:
    Distopia said:

    That's the big thing as far as where The Escapist sits in all of this, all they have to do is show an effort to vet these people, that's the extent of their responsibility. Now whether those people are legit, fabricating, telling the truth etc... is not on them what so ever. That falls directly on those bringing forth the allegations. As long as they feel they vetted them to the extent of their ability, they have no need to retract, take down, or apologize.


    I agree that is where they sit.
    I think they wouldn't have had any questions raised if they had done a more balanced approach to their investigation from the beginning. 
    I still believe that they should have contacted CIG and interviewed them directly about the issues, allowed ample time for them to gather data to counter and submit, then reviewed all available evidence from both sides before going to author let alone print the article.
    I agree, that really depends on  their goal, A: release a story that creates a bunch of hits, and has high circulation, or B: report nothing but the truth as it's proven to be.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • MrSnufflesMrSnuffles Member UncommonPosts: 1,117

    JeroKane said:
     


    I really makes no sense at all for this to be a scam.  CIG stands to make mountains of money if Star Citizen is successful, more annually than what they've thus far collected in crowdfunding.

    If you had the choice of 100mil now, or the potential to make more and not end up with that 100mil if things don't go your way, what would would you choose?

    Most people would hold their hand out asking where is this 100mil.

    Bottom line is. He is already financially independent and has been for some years.
    He doesn't need to run with backers money. 
    Pure speculation. Other sources suggest he was in deep financial troubles after a couple of his film projects fell through and he git sued by Kevin Kostner for $8 million.
    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

    "It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
    - Michael Bitton
    Community Manager, MMORPG.com

    "As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law

    "I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." 
    - SEANMCAD

    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
  • AnnaTSAnnaTS Member UncommonPosts: 600
    edited October 2015
    ...


    So now that we have established that none of these claims gives the sources any grounds for a lawsuit that would benefit them financially the rest of us can go back to addressing the real issues.
    Exactly why  was i asked a question not even about the topic i don't know, but i noticed they didn't answer the question in my post they replied too which was about this topic.
  • ThourneThourne Member RarePosts: 757
    Distopia said:
    Thourne said:
    Distopia said:


    I agree that is where they sit.
    I think they wouldn't have had any questions raised if they had done a more balanced approach to their investigation from the beginning. 
    I still believe that they should have contacted CIG and interviewed them directly about the issues, allowed ample time for them to gather data to counter and submit, then reviewed all available evidence from both sides before going to author let alone print the article.
    I agree, that really depends on  their goal, A: release a story that creates a bunch of hits, and has high circulation, or B: report nothing but the truth as it's proven to be.
    Aye, it does give the appearance of a willful choice to be sensationalist.
  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    edited October 2015

    JeroKane said:
     


    I really makes no sense at all for this to be a scam.  CIG stands to make mountains of money if Star Citizen is successful, more annually than what they've thus far collected in crowdfunding.

    If you had the choice of 100mil now, or the potential to make more and not end up with that 100mil if things don't go your way, what would would you choose?

    Most people would hold their hand out asking where is this 100mil.

    Bottom line is. He is already financially independent and has been for some years.
    He doesn't need to run with backers money. 
    Pure speculation. Other sources suggest he was in deep financial troubles after a couple of his film projects fell through and he git sued by Kevin Kostner for $8 million.
    All angles here are pure speculation. I'd speculate that there wouldn't be 100 mil to walk away with after hiring everyone he has. IF he was to do as some are suggesting, why not just release the original game they talked about? That would not require a larger team, nor a lot of time, it would most likely be out by now and he'd be sitting on over 80 mil? With little to care about biting him in the ass, or going to prison.


    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • ThourneThourne Member RarePosts: 757
    Distopia said:

    JeroKane said:
     





    Bottom line is. He is already financially independent and has been for some years.
    He doesn't need to run with backers money. 
    Pure speculation. Other sources suggest he was in deep financial troubles after a couple of his film projects fell through and he git sued by Kevin Kostner for $8 million.
    All angles here are pure speculation. I'd speculate that there wouldn't be 100 mil to walk away with after hiring everyone he has. IF he was to do as some are suggesting, why not just release the original game they talked about? That would not require a larger team, nor a lot of time, it would most likely be out by now and he'd be sitting on over 80 mil?
    Everyone here is dealing in feelings and thoughts. Not a one of us has the facts.
    That said, I firmly believe that their behavior is not a scam and if the game fails there wont be a penny left for any party to claim.
  • MrSnufflesMrSnuffles Member UncommonPosts: 1,117


    As I said, 7, actually 9 sources just happened to contact her within a two day period. Nine individual people all decided within a 48 hour period to call the same person. What are the odds?

    Pretty standard when an article is published that multiple sources come forward within a couple of days encouraged by the article. Happens all the time in the press.

    Let me just remind you that the people defending CIG have stated that these people also talked to other online publications and it is generally used as an argument to show that the story is bad because others did not run with it.

    Now you say it's suspicious they called the same person within 48 hours. Which is it?

    You got to make up your mind with these arguments. You can't have it both ways, makes you look like a tin foil hat nutcase.

    It's actually pretty funny i just leave it at that.
    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

    "It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
    - Michael Bitton
    Community Manager, MMORPG.com

    "As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law

    "I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." 
    - SEANMCAD

    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
  • JacxolopeJacxolope Member UncommonPosts: 1,140
    jcrg99 said:
    Oh man ... I just tried to read this but that windbag is so off-putting.  I suppose I'll try again after I've digested more of my lunch.

    It's challenging to try and wade through all the bluster and self-righteous indignation coming from someone who's been caught multiple times spreading lies to all corners of the internet.  I have to wonder if Chris Roberts has considered pulling the plug himself just so he doesn't have to deal with this jackass.
    That might be the excuse he uses.

    Whatever the excuse he decides to use for taking 100 Million dollars and not being able to finish what he promised will include DS for sure.

    I wish my life life were that easy- Take 100 million of other peoples money. Not finish and walk away because...Critics... Blame critics.../fans and "donors" are understanding.

    On a side note- I thought the Blog was perfect for its intention. I would bet that behind the scenes theres alot of movement and right now DS needs to play whatever cards he happens to be holding close. You people may not see whats coming- But its coming...
  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    Thourne said:

    Everyone here is dealing in feelings and thoughts. Not a one of us has the facts.
    That said, I firmly believe that their behavior is not a scam and if the game fails there wont be a penny left for any party to claim.
    I personally still don't know what to believe TBH, the good part about that is, I don't think this is going away any time soon, so I'm sure we'll get a good idea of the truth in due time. In turn I feel no real need to jump to a conclusion.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


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  • JacxolopeJacxolope Member UncommonPosts: 1,140
    AnnaTS said:
    Thourne said:
    AnnaTS said:
    Thourne said:
    AnnaTS said:


    Plus i would have doubt in a person who wanted to play around with other peoples money but not their own.
    From this are we to take it that you don't trust any publicly traded entity or partnership?
    They all use someone else s money to some degree.

    Well that is how it is if you want a business loan, you know people get rejected a loan if they don't like your business plan it's a firm NO you can't have a loan.
    Well that is a reply but it still isn't an answer to the question.
    I am not answering stupid questions i put a reasonable post and you decided to post back with what you did.
    I hope you aren't a game journalist, because I would hate to have someone as blind as this writing about games.

    The Ecapist got trolled, hard. If I was them , I would sue Derek Smart.
    Then we will soon see CIG suing like they threatened.

    -Or we have a problem as if they dont sue this is akin to admitting everything in the article. Especially after their public threat.
  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    edited October 2015
    Jacxolope said:


    On a side note- I thought the Blog was perfect for its intention. I would bet that behind the scenes theres alot of movement and right now DS needs to play whatever cards he happens to be holding close. You people may not see whats coming- But its coming...
    Well if his intentions are as he says they are, why would he be holding anything back? The longer he holds out the more backers they gain, and the more of their money as he sees it gets flushed down the drain?

    Edit: Sorry I didn't mean to sound like Dr. Suess.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • SmartySmartSmartySmart Member UncommonPosts: 312
    edited October 2015
    Wow.. just wow! 

    I really wanted to read all posts to be up to date but then...




  • AnnaTSAnnaTS Member UncommonPosts: 600
    AnnaTS said:
    Thourne said:
    AnnaTS said:
    Thourne said:
    AnnaTS said:


    Plus i would have doubt in a person who wanted to play around with other peoples money but not their own.
    From this are we to take it that you don't trust any publicly traded entity or partnership?
    They all use someone else s money to some degree.

    Well that is how it is if you want a business loan, you know people get rejected a loan if they don't like your business plan it's a firm NO you can't have a loan.
    Well that is a reply but it still isn't an answer to the question.
    I am not answering stupid questions i put a reasonable post and you decided to post back with what you did.
    I hope you aren't a game journalist, because I would hate to have someone as blind as this writing about games.

    The Ecapist got trolled, hard. If I was them , I would sue Derek Smart.

    Ok they got trolled, but i still ask the question, if chris roberts is as succesful as people say then why didn't he us his own money for the kickstarter he wasn't even asking that much ?

    I would be having doubts in person who uses other people and not their own.

    Did he not have enough faith in the project to use his own money ?


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