EA was the investor for Bioware to develop SWTOR. NCSoft was the investor for their new NA studio run by Richard Garriott and his brother to develop Tabula Rasa. Microsoft invested (and so did SOE actually at that time) in Brad McQuaid's Sigil Games to develop Vanguard. Warner Bros. invested in Monolith to develop The Matrix Online.
In all these cases, the investors lost many millions of dollars. Especially EA took a huge hit! and vowed to never invest in another MMO project again.
uhm arnt' those mostly publicly traded companies? with investors?
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling." - Michael Bitton Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." - SEANMCAD
Oh man ... I just tried to read this but that windbag is so off-putting. I suppose I'll try again after I've digested more of my lunch.
It's challenging to try and wade through all the bluster and self-righteous indignation coming from someone who's been caught multiple times spreading lies to all corners of the internet. I have to wonder if Chris Roberts has considered pulling the plug himself just so he doesn't have to deal with this jackass.
Got to disagree with you there. It's actually an easy read. Whatver other nasty things we might say about DS and his games, he's not a bad writer... and his lawyer is an even better one:
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Oh man ... I just tried to read this but that windbag is so off-putting. I suppose I'll try again after I've digested more of my lunch.
It's challenging to try and wade through all the bluster and self-righteous indignation coming from someone who's been caught multiple times spreading lies to all corners of the internet. I have to wonder if Chris Roberts has considered pulling the plug himself just so he doesn't have to deal with this jackass.
Got to disagree with you there. It's actually an easy read. Whatver other nasty things we might say about DS and his games, he's not a bad writer... and his lawyer is an even better one:
This thread is not about Derek Smart vs. Chris Roberts. This thread is about Escapist vs. CIG.
Please find or create a thread for the petty squabbles between 2 Game Developers.
Thank you.
That probably went through one ear and out the other.
Well to be fair... Without DS these people would not have any platform to stand on... The only reason they got "air time" is because of the DS/CR deathmatch... It would not have the click potential elsewise.
This thread is not about Derek Smart vs. Chris Roberts. This thread is about Escapist vs. CIG.
Please find or create a thread for the petty squabbles between 2 Game Developers.
Thank you.
I'd agree if we include all of the people injecting DS into this convo, not just one side's use against his persona, but also those sharing his statements on every other page. Seems kinda one sided otherwise.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
This thread is not about Derek Smart vs. Chris Roberts. This thread is about Escapist vs. CIG.
Please find or create a thread for the petty squabbles between 2 Game Developers.
Thank you.
That probably went through one ear and out the other.
Well to be fair... Without DS these people would not have any platform to stand on... The only reason they got "air time" is because of the DS/CR deathmatch... It would not have the click potential elsewise.
I agree because people where already voicing concerns before he started to shout louder, but people keep using him in their arguments to defend Star Citizen, but i think it has gone pass that stage now.
Oh man ... I just tried to read this but that windbag is so off-putting. I suppose I'll try again after I've digested more of my lunch.
It's challenging to try and wade through all the bluster and self-righteous indignation coming from someone who's been caught multiple times spreading lies to all corners of the internet. I have to wonder if Chris Roberts has considered pulling the plug himself just so he doesn't have to deal with this jackass.
Got to disagree with you there. It's actually an easy read. Whatver other nasty things we might say about DS and his games, he's not a bad writer... and his lawyer is an even better one:
Freyermuth just seems totally outclassed. Bluster and threats seems to be all he can come up with in this letter and his letter to The Escapist.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Freyermuth just seems totally outclassed. Bluster and threats seems to be all he can come up with in this letter and his letter to The Escapist.
I don't think if CIG goes forward with anything that Freyermuth will have anything to do with the legal end of it. It is outside his area of expertise after all. I'd expect them to hire someone for further actions.
From what I understand he is bringing 2-3 million a month and this money is coming in from people donating to support the game. This is pretty lucrative and I suppose they can just continue to get this money as long as they go on developing the game. Better not release anything soon since the money seems to be quite good.
Oh man ... I just tried to read this but that windbag is so off-putting. I suppose I'll try again after I've digested more of my lunch.
It's challenging to try and wade through all the bluster and self-righteous indignation coming from someone who's been caught multiple times spreading lies to all corners of the internet. I have to wonder if Chris Roberts has considered pulling the plug himself just so he doesn't have to deal with this jackass.
Got to disagree with you there. It's actually an easy read. Whatver other nasty things we might say about DS and his games, he's not a bad writer... and his lawyer is an even better one:
The difference in quality of the two lawyers is pretty crazy.
Yeah. For every F. Lee Bailey there are dozens of Saul Goodman's
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Freyermuth just seems totally outclassed. Bluster and threats seems to be all he can come up with in this letter and his letter to The Escapist.
Well to be fair...Freyermuth's position wasn't just coming from a position of legalese. He's a player in all of this just as any other person that is a part of SC, CIG/SC goes down, he goes down. OF course he's going to use heated rhetoric, it's personal for him. DS's lawyer is simply being a lawyer.
I'm quite confounded actually on why folks feel CIG shouldn't respond in the manner they have. But that's the way it always goes, the accused are always the only side expected to act "professionally".
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Oh man ... I just tried to read this but that windbag is so off-putting. I suppose I'll try again after I've digested more of my lunch.
It's challenging to try and wade through all the bluster and self-righteous indignation coming from someone who's been caught multiple times spreading lies to all corners of the internet. I have to wonder if Chris Roberts has considered pulling the plug himself just so he doesn't have to deal with this jackass.
Got to disagree with you there. It's actually an easy read. Whatver other nasty things we might say about DS and his games, he's not a bad writer... and his lawyer is an even better one:
The writing prowess isn't what makes it hard to read for me. It's the content. And since you linked that letter, what about this crap in the second to last paragraph?
"In the meantime, Mr. Smart’s primary demand was, and is, accountability. Mr. Smart has simply asked that Mr. Roberts provide accountability to the thousands of investors to demonstrate that he has not squandered nearly $90,000,000, while failing, repeatedly, to deliver on milestones and promises. Objectively speaking, that does not appear to be an unreasonable request; however, rather than publicly disclose the actual status of the development, rather than committing to a delivery date, Mr. Roberts chose to escalate the matter by publicly and personally attacking Mr. Smart; and now threatening him with criminal liability. Needless to say, this will not deter Mr. Smart, who intends to protect the public’s interest and the integrity of game devepment."
I guess nobody told this lawyer that crowdfunding pledges aren't "investments" they're donations. And who the hell does he think Derek Smart is anyway? Why should CIG acquiesce to anything he demands especially after they refunded his money? It's moronic to suggest that Derek Smart is entitled to anything from CIG. He should have left them alone after getting his refund. The lawyer talks about Derek Smart like he works for some government regulatory agency or something and that CIG should just give him everything he's asking for. Completely ridiculous.
This is why people are tired of hearing his name.
People keep forgetting that Derek Smart has made games before, so all these progress videos chris does do you not think he might of noticed they hadn't made of much of a progress as they should of done.
Plus i don't care how rubbish his games are, i haven't played them and that will just be another attack him and a lame response.
Oh man ... I just tried to read this but that windbag is so off-putting. I suppose I'll try again after I've digested more of my lunch.
It's challenging to try and wade through all the bluster and self-righteous indignation coming from someone who's been caught multiple times spreading lies to all corners of the internet. I have to wonder if Chris Roberts has considered pulling the plug himself just so he doesn't have to deal with this jackass.
Got to disagree with you there. It's actually an easy read. Whatver other nasty things we might say about DS and his games, he's not a bad writer... and his lawyer is an even better one:
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling." - Michael Bitton Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." - SEANMCAD
Well to be fair...Freyermuth's position wasn't just coming from a position of legalese. He's a player in all of this just as any other person that is a part of SC, CIG/SC goes down, he goes down. OF course he's going to use heated rhetoric, it's personal for him. DS's lawyer is simply being a lawyer.
I'm quite confounded actually on why folks feel CIG shouldn't respond in the manner they have. But that's the way it always goes, the accused are always the only side expected to act "professionally".
If one uses the public arena to self promote (an agenda, a ideology, a policy, a game, whatever) how one comports themselves in that arena of public relations is relevant. DS didn't get his rep simply because of his games, it's unfortunate that earlier CR/CIG was determined to follow the leader.
This thread is not about Derek Smart vs. Chris Roberts. This thread is about Escapist vs. CIG.
Please find or create a thread for the petty squabbles between 2 Game Developers.
Thank you.
I'd agree if we include all of the people injecting DS into this convo, not just one side's use against his persona, but also those sharing his statements on every other page. Seems kinda one sided otherwise.
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling." - Michael Bitton Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." - SEANMCAD
People keep forgetting that Derek Smart has made games before, so all these progress videos chris does do you not think he might of noticed they hadn't made of much of a progress as they should of done.
Plus i don't care how rubbish his games are, i haven't played them and that will just be another attack him and a lame response.
That's the thing though DS wouldn't know what it takes to create such a game...All that sounds like is I can't do it, so no one can, so yes his skill and experience (his games) are relevant if you want to go down the road of arguing such a point.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Oh man ... I just tried to read this but that windbag is so off-putting. I suppose I'll try again after I've digested more of my lunch.
It's challenging to try and wade through all the bluster and self-righteous indignation coming from someone who's been caught multiple times spreading lies to all corners of the internet. I have to wonder if Chris Roberts has considered pulling the plug himself just so he doesn't have to deal with this jackass.
Got to disagree with you there. It's actually an easy read. Whatver other nasty things we might say about DS and his games, he's not a bad writer... and his lawyer is an even better one:
The writing prowess isn't what makes it hard to read for me. It's the content. And since you linked that letter, what about this crap in the second to last paragraph?
"In the meantime, Mr. Smart’s primary demand was, and is, accountability. Mr. Smart has simply asked that Mr. Roberts provide accountability to the thousands of investors to demonstrate that he has not squandered nearly $90,000,000, while failing, repeatedly, to deliver on milestones and promises. Objectively speaking, that does not appear to be an unreasonable request; however, rather than publicly disclose the actual status of the development, rather than committing to a delivery date, Mr. Roberts chose to escalate the matter by publicly and personally attacking Mr. Smart; and now threatening him with criminal liability. Needless to say, this will not deter Mr. Smart, who intends to protect the public’s interest and the integrity of game devepment."
I guess nobody told this lawyer that crowdfunding pledges aren't "investments" they're donations. And who the hell does he think Derek Smart is anyway? Why should CIG acquiesce to anything he demands especially after they refunded his money? It's moronic to suggest that Derek Smart is entitled to anything from CIG. He should have left them alone after getting his refund. The lawyer talks about Derek Smart like he works for some government regulatory agency or something and that CIG should just give him everything he's asking for. Completely ridiculous.
Well the whole debate about "donations" vs. "investments" vs. "purchases" is a good one and worthy of its own thread like we have seen here in "The Pub" many times.
Personally I find the "donation" argument baseless in the context of providing specific digital goods for specific prices. Even specific "rewards" for different tiers in standard KS drives blur that line. I also find that argument to be just too convenient to deflect and cast blame on the "donors" of, for example, Greed Monger, because they should have known better... lets the Jason Appletons of the world get a free ride.
And yes, I knew you weren't talking about his penmanship - I just chose to go there all by myself.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Comments
This thread is not about Derek Smart vs. Chris Roberts. This thread is about Escapist vs. CIG.
Please find or create a thread for the petty squabbles between 2 Game Developers.
Thank you.
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
- Michael Bitton
Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about."
- SEANMCAD
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https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4497650/15-10-02_Response_To_RSI_Cease_Desist.pdf
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
This have been a good conversation
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
However, this isnt DS vs CR...
Removing DS from the conversation is impossible and when everything is said and done DS will be credited with bringing out the truth.
But its the information- Not that man- That is getting mixed up.
Arguments like "DS made a shit game" are just...Stupid. make a new thread about DS's game. This is about CRs game tht the community funded.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4497650/15-09-30_Cease_Desist_Letter_from_RSI.pdf
Freyermuth just seems totally outclassed. Bluster and threats seems to be all he can come up with in this letter and his letter to The Escapist.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I'd expect them to hire someone for further actions.
EDIT
Not 5 pages of rant
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I'm quite confounded actually on why folks feel CIG shouldn't respond in the manner they have. But that's the way it always goes, the accused are always the only side expected to act "professionally".
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
People keep forgetting that Derek Smart has made games before, so all these progress videos chris does do you not think he might of noticed they hadn't made of much of a progress as they should of done.
Plus i don't care how rubbish his games are, i haven't played them and that will just be another attack him and a lame response.
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
- Michael Bitton
Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about."
- SEANMCAD
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
By all means.
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
- Michael Bitton
Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about."
- SEANMCAD
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Personally I find the "donation" argument baseless in the context of providing specific digital goods for specific prices. Even specific "rewards" for different tiers in standard KS drives blur that line. I also find that argument to be just too convenient to deflect and cast blame on the "donors" of, for example, Greed Monger, because they should have known better... lets the Jason Appletons of the world get a free ride.
And yes, I knew you weren't talking about his penmanship - I just chose to go there all by myself.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED