I think that down scaling is fantastic. It will allow me to level my character on any planet I want. For example, if I'm level 45 and dislike Voss, I can hang out and level up on Tatooine for as long as I desire. It will make heroic quests on any planet fresh. I just hope they will adjust the rewards to my actual level. Also, it will prevent ganking. I really can't see any downside to this system.
They've confirmed rewards will scale, so you should be good!
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Imo, level scaling is a bad idea and will probably lose more people than it retains. When I go through an area, I do it on several characters. So I get the experience multiple times as is. I don't want to have to worry about rounding that one corner forgetting trap/mob is coming up and getting my rear handed to me when said mob shouldn't spawn or recognize me as a big enough of a threat to leave me the hell alone. I mean how often do you as a player keep trying to solo those brick red con mobs every time you come across one?
Imo, level scaling is a bad idea and will probably lose more people than it retains. When I go through an area, I do it on several characters. So I get the experience multiple times as is. I don't want to have to worry about rounding that one corner forgetting trap/mob is coming up and getting my rear handed to me when said mob shouldn't spawn or recognize me as a big enough of a threat to leave me the hell alone. I mean how often do you as a player keep trying to solo those brick red con mobs every time you come across one?
@umcorian I agree with you. Several games do the level down thing, though you retain an albeit weaker form of some of your skills. Honestly, removing skills is bad. I can also see the immersion-breaking aspect. Making the level down experience optional would be fantastic.
I don't follow the immersion-breaking aspect at all. Right now by the time you are done with a planet your power has increased so much you just stomp all over it. It's very jarring comparing your time fighting mobs on a planet when you first step foot on it vs when you are done questing on it. Scaling seems a lot more realistic to me.
I do agree that skills shouldn't go away but just be scaled down and making it optional might be nice.
It's why I left GW2, and went ESO. It makes leveling feel pointless. If I'm high level, but a low level mob can still kill me, then what are we doing here? The leveling was worthless then. Even MORE of a waste of time then.
•L2p your class.
•Why is it ANets fault?
•Learn the Mechanics.
•If you tried to solo a Champion, it's suppose to be hard and challenging.
Thing about leveling and content is that sometimes the progress makes sense and sometimes it does not.
When you level up from fighting a rat/kobold to duking out with dragons and demons? Makes sense that turning around to fight a kobold is going to by perspective be a helluva lot easier than it used to be.
When you go from fighting a bunch of people to fighting...more people. Makes less sense.
There are some aspects in which the curve should be apparent in a title like SWtoR. Uniquely skilled components of any group are going to be tougher cookies. Bounty hunters, while not being known for being force users, are at least known in the star wars universe as having some rather tenacious folk within their ranks. Any force user is an obvious upgrade in challenge as well.
The issue comes up that the distribution of these kinds of people and challenges is spread across every zone of the game. You meet force users and supposedly tough characters early on. While it does have stronger prevalence of the best being held out for the end of the player storylines/planets, you still end up having the issue that some relatively credible threats make an appearance that then becomes devalued at the character levels up.
Why the exact same soldiers on one zone are so much weaker in another, makes no sense.
Level scaling is in part an endeavor that solves this fundamental discrepancy. Sure there are other reasons, as well as issues, but that's a pretty big point on it's own.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
I think that down scaling is fantastic. It will allow me to level my character on any planet I want. For example, if I'm level 45 and dislike Voss, I can hang out and level up on Tatooine for as long as I desire. It will make heroic quests on any planet fresh. I just hope they will adjust the rewards to my actual level. Also, it will prevent ganking. I really can't see any downside to this system.
Yes, it's a great change. As long - as you say - the rewards are somehow tailored and adjusted to suit. In my opinion Guild Wars 2 on the whole did a great job of this, and I'm glad to see other developers adapting to the successful mechanic.
I remember level scaling character level in groups in CoX as being a pretty handy feature...
But scaling was designed originally into the game and was well thought out. Most importantly, you had control over it.
This. (though I think it was an update, not built in originally) Have control, and the right times to use it. Suzie writes above that "Several games do the level down thing", well, downscale without any options I can only remember in GW2 and that's a sh.tty game (ok, not just because of level downscale)
TOR has a "traditional", or old-fashioned level-based progression model, with the character getting stronger and stronger as moving through the story. In a such setup downscale is only working if it's optional (first and foremost), and also if it has a well-defined goal (like Mentoring for a dungeon in CoH, or session play in LotRO, etc.)
As for immersion, current setup is more accurate I think. This new: "So, you find it tough to beat those Manka kittens? Lucky for you, you have a talent for the Force, after you graduate you will go several planets, defeating thousands of strong opponents, gaining powers you cannot even imagine right now - but beware, as soon as you set foot on Tython again, those Manka kittens will be waiting for you, and it'd be tough to beat them... Yeah, yeah, it sounds stupid, just like the midi-chlorians, but what can we do, these are the laws the Creators force ( ) upon us." is laughable
(for the record, haven't played since Revan, will go back to check the new update, and almost never go back to lowbie planets, meaning I'm not really affected by this change. I'm arguing the system itself, because a general and forced downscale is simply a dumb idea.)
Sidekicking was added, but the math behind scaling was in at release. It was built into the combat system.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
I think that down scaling is fantastic. It will allow me to level my character on any planet I want. For example, if I'm level 45 and dislike Voss, I can hang out and level up on Tatooine for as long as I desire. It will make heroic quests on any planet fresh. I just hope they will adjust the rewards to my actual level. Also, it will prevent ganking. I really can't see any downside to this system.
How about new characters wanting to start their adventure on hoth? At level 1?
Ok, if that is too much, how about my jedi starts tython->finished corsuscant then rather than going to taris (how that I have my ship) I can go anywhere I want? Wouldn't that be different?
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
I fail to see the point of a leveling system if everything scales. There is no progression.
Really? Everything doesn't scale you can't start at a level 1 fly to Makeb and become a 50. You have to get ready for this...you ready...PROGRESS to 50 before you can get to Makeb and here it is again PROGRESS to 60 to get to Rishi and Yavin 4 and wait for it PROGRESS to survive in the new xpac...
im sorry did you say something about no progression?
Willfully obtuse much? Of course there is game progression, but there is no power progression which is a huge part of the appeal in a leveling system.
No power progression? Yeah my level 1 is way more powerful than my level 10 I guess right? If I tried to go to a level 20,30,50,65 place as a level 10 I'd get worked. Now if I went there as a level 65 I will kick ass. Not just because I gained leveled but I got new abilities that made me more powerful, I got new gear that made me more powerful.
Ok so I corrected you about progression now I just corrected you on "power progression" any other questions?
Seriously? Blocking content by level range is not the same as power progression. I should be able to go back to lower levels and beat the crap out of stuff that used to kick my ass. Getting revenge and feeling like you have actually progressed in power relative to the content is something I very much enjoy. It's also a very important tool for soloers who want to go back and solo some of the earlier group content.
@umcorian I agree with you. Several games do the level down thing, though you retain an albeit weaker form of some of your skills. Honestly, removing skills is bad. I can also see the immersion-breaking aspect. Making the level down experience optional would be fantastic.
@Sbford and @umcorian Where do you get that they remove skills with level scaling?
My understanding from the streams and forums was that you kept all your skills and passives
"However, while under Level Sync we will not take away any abilities or passive effects that you have. Also, while under Level Sync you will earn scaled experience. So if you are a level 60, killing level 30 mobs, you will gain experience appropriate for being a level 60 ."
So I am not sure where the debate about removing skills comes from.
Comments
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I do agree that skills shouldn't go away but just be scaled down and making it optional might be nice.
•Why is it ANets fault?
•Learn the Mechanics.
•If you tried to solo a Champion, it's suppose to be hard and challenging.
When you level up from fighting a rat/kobold to duking out with dragons and demons?
Makes sense that turning around to fight a kobold is going to by perspective be a helluva lot easier than it used to be.
When you go from fighting a bunch of people to fighting...more people. Makes less sense.
There are some aspects in which the curve should be apparent in a title like SWtoR. Uniquely skilled components of any group are going to be tougher cookies. Bounty hunters, while not being known for being force users, are at least known in the star wars universe as having some rather tenacious folk within their ranks. Any force user is an obvious upgrade in challenge as well.
The issue comes up that the distribution of these kinds of people and challenges is spread across every zone of the game. You meet force users and supposedly tough characters early on. While it does have stronger prevalence of the best being held out for the end of the player storylines/planets, you still end up having the issue that some relatively credible threats make an appearance that then becomes devalued at the character levels up.
Why the exact same soldiers on one zone are so much weaker in another, makes no sense.
Level scaling is in part an endeavor that solves this fundamental discrepancy. Sure there are other reasons, as well as issues, but that's a pretty big point on it's own.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
This is not true. The loot scales up to your current level.
• Weapons and Armor
Except the type of sack or bag, this is based off the region you are.
•Basic, fine, rare, or other materials.
•RNG determines whether the items you loot is useless.
•Magic Find increases the chance of the quality the item you loot. Useless or not.
Sounds like a string of bad luck and I know what that feels like.
Sidekicking was added, but the math behind scaling was in at release. It was built into the combat system.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Ok, if that is too much, how about my jedi starts tython->finished corsuscant then rather than going to taris (how that I have my ship) I can go anywhere I want? Wouldn't that be different?
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Seriously? Blocking content by level range is not the same as power progression. I should be able to go back to lower levels and beat the crap out of stuff that used to kick my ass. Getting revenge and feeling like you have actually progressed in power relative to the content is something I very much enjoy. It's also a very important tool for soloers who want to go back and solo some of the earlier group content.
@Sbford and @umcorian Where do you get that they remove skills with level scaling?
My understanding from the streams and forums was that you kept all your skills and passives
Infact it even says so right here http://www.starwarstheoldrepublic.com/info/news/blog/20151002
"However, while under Level Sync we will not take away any abilities or passive effects that you have. Also, while under Level Sync you will earn scaled experience. So if you are a level 60, killing level 30 mobs, you will gain experience appropriate for being a level 60 ."
So I am not sure where the debate about removing skills comes from.