So opinions aren't formed from facts? Or are opinions so deviated from facts/sources that it brings nothing to a discussion? Sorry, I didn't realise we were all creatures born from a cave.
Opinions are simply thoughts on a subject, they have nothing to do with facts. But yes, we're all born from biological caves, that's basically what the womb is.
Not sure if serious... but if you lack any understanding (albeit shallow) of a specific subject (facts wrt.), would you have any opinions? As for the cave thing, I'd suggest some meta-thinking, if you can't understand my reference to unity and equal say without abuse then you may as well be ignored.
Honestly, I'm simply referring to the OP arguing semantics. He's using a set of numbers to correlate and analyse, then disputing everyone else's input as crap and nonsense because of what? That it lacks a source? Oh please, show me your name in any published scientific paper on Nature, then I'll agree with the patronising tone.
Apparently presenting facts requires a paper to be published. Who knew? ROFL!
It shows what PvP games are really all about, and no, it's not about more realism and immersion. It's about cowards hiding behind a screen to they can bully other defenseless players without any risk of direct retaliation like there would be if they acted like asshats in "real life". -Jean-Luc_Picard
Life itself is a game. So why shouldn't your game be ruined? - justmemyselfandi
Apparently presenting facts requires a paper to be published. Who knew? ROFL!
No, but requesting for everyone's opinions to be cited and continuously slam others with patronisation does. Or is it not okay for me to just say that? Like you are consciously asking people to cite every opinion as they discuss on a gaming forum? Give me a break rofl
That just goes to show how little you understand of anything, no wonder you refer to sources so much even though you have ZERO idea how credible your sources even are...
Pick apparent random phrases from my paragraph and correlate them? Like you are with 3 different numbers from different survey census?
So opinions aren't formed from facts? Or are opinions so deviated from facts/sources that it brings nothing to a discussion? Sorry, I didn't realise we were all creatures born from a cave.
Opinions are simply thoughts on a subject, they have nothing to do with facts. But yes, we're all born from biological caves, that's basically what the womb is.
Not sure if serious... but if you lack any understanding (albeit shallow) of a specific subject (facts wrt.), would you have any opinions? As for the cave thing, I'd suggest some meta-thinking, if you can't understand my reference to unity and equal say without abuse then you may as well be ignored.
You can have opinions about a lot of things with what you consider facts but are entirely wrong. Your mind can put together an opinion based on a concept from random bullshit you've heard from people in your travels, who also may be spouting nonsense as facts because they are doing the same thing as you. Then everyone believes a lie to be fact. This happens quite a lot actually. Like every day everywhere.
Also, I don't know what you're getting into about the abuse there. I guess you went into defense mode kinda quick and read into what I said in a way I never intended.
So opinions aren't formed from facts? Or are opinions so deviated from facts/sources that it brings nothing to a discussion? Sorry, I didn't realise we were all creatures born from a cave.
Opinions are simply thoughts on a subject, they have nothing to do with facts. But yes, we're all born from biological caves, that's basically what the womb is.
Not sure if serious... but if you lack any understanding (albeit shallow) of a specific subject (facts wrt.), would you have any opinions? As for the cave thing, I'd suggest some meta-thinking, if you can't understand my reference to unity and equal say without abuse then you may as well be ignored.
You can have opinions about a lot of things with what you consider facts but are entirely wrong. Your mind can put together an opinion based on a concept from random bullshit you've heard from people in your travels, who also may be spouting nonsense as facts because they are doing the same thing as you. Then everyone believes a lie to be fact. This happens quite a lot actually. Like every day everywhere.
Also, I don't know what you're getting into about the abuse there. I guess you went into defense mode kinda quick and read into what I said in a way I never intended.
Ghavrigg mate you're too simple.
Your explanation states baseless opinions exists and are wrong, however, they are not formed from facts (right or wrong). Do you not see your own mistake here?
A lie is a belief based on incorrect or incomplete information/fact - does this not constitute the correlation of the two? Ignore right or wrong because that is purely subjective and we're having an objective debate here, no?
This is why you shouldn't try to hero when you can't even understand "read between the lines"
Also, I'm trying to signify the importance of free speech and everyone's rights to their opinion. I pointed out with absolute clarity that JohnP the OP of this thread, is dismissing everyone's opinions to be wrong cause it lacks a source with a patronising undertone as well. However, he himself does not even possess a shred of FACT that are able to be related to each other. So then, what gives him the right to dismiss and force sourcing/citing of opinion?
*Edited to explain what my cave comment meant cause you seem to miss every word I write
Apparently looking at the avg age of gamers and what they do in real life is too complicated of a logic for some people.
Shakes head*
I am waiting for the hahaha trolled you defense any minute now.
It shows what PvP games are really all about, and no, it's not about more realism and immersion. It's about cowards hiding behind a screen to they can bully other defenseless players without any risk of direct retaliation like there would be if they acted like asshats in "real life". -Jean-Luc_Picard
Life itself is a game. So why shouldn't your game be ruined? - justmemyselfandi
You and I both know very well, through the entirety of this "debate" as you call it, you've continuously tried to link and bring in new "facts" that you've created out of thin air and loosely based on those stats.
Logic is out the window when you patronise others for their opinion and lack common sense to think for yourself.
Sorry, as much as you want me to say that in an effort to push out my last gripes with you, not happening.
Arrogance and Ignorance is a major flaw in all of us, the quicker one learns to spot such irrationality - the quicker you will understand other's perspectives.
Ah.. I didn't realize opinions are more important than facts when debating things. /sarcasm
are you kidding me? Of course opinions are more important here on this forum. If only facts are allowed, you think this place will have so much traffic, and people will have so much fun?
So opinions aren't formed from facts? Or are opinions so deviated from facts/sources that it brings nothing to a discussion? Sorry, I didn't realise we were all creatures born from a cave.
Opinions are simply thoughts on a subject, they have nothing to do with facts. But yes, we're all born from biological caves, that's basically what the womb is.
Not sure if serious... but if you lack any understanding (albeit shallow) of a specific subject (facts wrt.), would you have any opinions? As for the cave thing, I'd suggest some meta-thinking, if you can't understand my reference to unity and equal say without abuse then you may as well be ignored.
You can have opinions about a lot of things with what you consider facts but are entirely wrong. Your mind can put together an opinion based on a concept from random bullshit you've heard from people in your travels, who also may be spouting nonsense as facts because they are doing the same thing as you. Then everyone believes a lie to be fact. This happens quite a lot actually. Like every day everywhere.
Also, I don't know what you're getting into about the abuse there. I guess you went into defense mode kinda quick and read into what I said in a way I never intended.
Ghavrigg mate you're too simple.
Your explanation states baseless opinions exists and are wrong, however, they are not formed from facts (right or wrong). Do you not see your own mistake here?
A lie is a belief based on incorrect or incomplete information/fact - does this not constitute the correlation of the two? Ignore right or wrong because that is purely subjective and we're having an objective debate here, no?
This is why you shouldn't try to hero when you can't even understand "read between the lines"
Also, I'm trying to signify the importance of free speech and everyone's rights to their opinion. I pointed out with absolute clarity that JohnP the OP of this thread, is dismissing everyone's opinions to be wrong cause it lacks a source with a patronising undertone as well. However, he himself does not even possess a shred of FACT that are able to be related to each other. So then, what gives him the right to dismiss and force sourcing/citing of opinion?
*Edited to explain what my cave comment meant cause you seem to miss every word I write
I really enjoy the irony that you're calling my views simplistic, when you're encouraging a simplistic thought on the subject. You're unable to think outside of the box and are too focused on the this mythical "fact" that may or may not even exist in a conversation.
A fact is only a fact if the people talking about it acknowledge it as such. Until then, it's merely an opinion based on a concept between ignorant people. Thus why, for example, people in the world are still engaging in witch burning regardless of any "facts" as to why its wrong and pointless, it's just their opinion that it's for the best, and they have had no factual evidence that could possibly back up this thought.
Also, I don't know what you're talking about with this "hero" bs, I only skimmed the thread and responded to something that caught my eye. I assume you're thinking of yourself as some sort of victim over something I have no clue about. You should probably go see a therapist for that. I'll state clearly that this was in no way an attack, and you come across reasonably intelligent if narrow-minded.
But, that's that, I won't expect you to comprehend and/or agree with anything I've said, I've said my piece.
So opinions aren't formed from facts? Or are opinions so deviated from facts/sources that it brings nothing to a discussion? Sorry, I didn't realise we were all creatures born from a cave.
Opinions are simply thoughts on a subject, they have nothing to do with facts. But yes, we're all born from biological caves, that's basically what the womb is.
Not sure if serious... but if you lack any understanding (albeit shallow) of a specific subject (facts wrt.), would you have any opinions? As for the cave thing, I'd suggest some meta-thinking, if you can't understand my reference to unity and equal say without abuse then you may as well be ignored.
You can have opinions about a lot of things with what you consider facts but are entirely wrong. Your mind can put together an opinion based on a concept from random bullshit you've heard from people in your travels, who also may be spouting nonsense as facts because they are doing the same thing as you. Then everyone believes a lie to be fact. This happens quite a lot actually. Like every day everywhere.
Also, I don't know what you're getting into about the abuse there. I guess you went into defense mode kinda quick and read into what I said in a way I never intended.
Ghavrigg mate you're too simple.
Your explanation states baseless opinions exists and are wrong, however, they are not formed from facts (right or wrong). Do you not see your own mistake here?
A lie is a belief based on incorrect or incomplete information/fact - does this not constitute the correlation of the two? Ignore right or wrong because that is purely subjective and we're having an objective debate here, no?
This is why you shouldn't try to hero when you can't even understand "read between the lines"
Also, I'm trying to signify the importance of free speech and everyone's rights to their opinion. I pointed out with absolute clarity that JohnP the OP of this thread, is dismissing everyone's opinions to be wrong cause it lacks a source with a patronising undertone as well. However, he himself does not even possess a shred of FACT that are able to be related to each other. So then, what gives him the right to dismiss and force sourcing/citing of opinion?
*Edited to explain what my cave comment meant cause you seem to miss every word I write
I really enjoy the irony that you're calling my views simplistic, when you're encouraging a simplistic thought on the subject. You're unable to think outside of the box and are too focused on the this mythical "fact" that may or may not even exist in a conversation.
A fact is only a fact if the people talking about it acknowledge it as such. Until then, it's merely an opinion based on a concept between ignorant people. Thus why, for example, people in the world are still engaging in witch burning regardless of any "facts" as to why its wrong and pointless, it's just their opinion that it's for the best, and they have had no factual evidence that could possibly back up this thought.
Also, I don't know what you're talking to about this "hero" bs, I only skimmed the thread and responded to something that caught my eye. I assume you're thinking of yourself as some sort of victim over something I have no clue about. You should probably go see a therapist for that.
But, that's that, I won't expect you to comprehend or agree with anything I say, I've said my piece. Everyone continue whatever you were doing.
It's alright if you don't understand what I explained and ask of you, there's no need to tell me the struggles you're having with yourself.
You want to be on your way? Then why reply here and talk as if you're the saint? Give me a break.
I see we have a poster attacking another because he doesn't understand the simple logic of `avg age of gamers -> census`. Just ROFL stuff.
It shows what PvP games are really all about, and no, it's not about more realism and immersion. It's about cowards hiding behind a screen to they can bully other defenseless players without any risk of direct retaliation like there would be if they acted like asshats in "real life". -Jean-Luc_Picard
Life itself is a game. So why shouldn't your game be ruined? - justmemyselfandi
It isn't our doing, it is the shareholders and the developers that pander to them.
There are some very niche older style MMOs still out or in the works. The problem is that many times they aren't profitable ENOUGH to justify leaving the doors open.
Companies are no longer content keeping the doors open and furthering a project. They want higher profit gains.
It is all greed, mmo industry as a whole as lost the labor of love mentality.
This post contradicts the concept of `market`. I don't care what your title is ceo, chairman, cfo whatever. $$$ above all. Hence why it is our fault.
It shows what PvP games are really all about, and no, it's not about more realism and immersion. It's about cowards hiding behind a screen to they can bully other defenseless players without any risk of direct retaliation like there would be if they acted like asshats in "real life". -Jean-Luc_Picard
Life itself is a game. So why shouldn't your game be ruined? - justmemyselfandi
Rofl, I knew many people even back in the everquest days that had kids and still played. They would afk for bit and come back. I know people that play MMO's with their kids. I get the point but you didn't explain how having kids has changed todays games other then saying it's all about money these days. More seems like you are whining you don't have enough time to play games like you want cause you have kids. I don't really feel the kid thing is as big of factor as the OP makes it out to be.
Half the people in my corp in EVE have kids (been playing with many of them for years) and it's understood that they are going to have to go afk more frequently that those of us without kids; and that's fine. Virtually everyone spends a couple of hours here and there throughout the week watching TV or a movie, reading a book, or whatever and video games are no different.
Unless of course they're the kind of parents like my sister-in-law; love my nephews to death (they're 4/4/7 years old) but to give an example: whenever they eat, each spoonful of food at every meal is a fucking negotiation. It's painful to observe and bloody loud and stressful. When you're a child you eat what's put in front of you end of story. This is but one example. If we're talking about parents like this then yeah, I can believe their day is pretty packed and likely have little to no time to play video games.
Most parents are not like this though, so I agree with you, the whole kid thing is an overblown excuse. The people I've been playing EVE with for almost a decade now manage just fine. It's a BS excuse unless of course... ^^
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Surprisingly if people have less free time they have less free time. Hence why people who have less free time don't play things that take a long time. This isn't rocket science.
It shows what PvP games are really all about, and no, it's not about more realism and immersion. It's about cowards hiding behind a screen to they can bully other defenseless players without any risk of direct retaliation like there would be if they acted like asshats in "real life". -Jean-Luc_Picard
Life itself is a game. So why shouldn't your game be ruined? - justmemyselfandi
The evolution of MMo's has nothing to do with age.
It has everything to do with Everquest. WTF am I talking about ? Everquest was king of the hill for many years. It was a punishing game even for casual people. Some of the players from top EQ guilds, Tigole Bitties aka Jeff Kaplan, Furor of FOH went on to become developers for Blizzard and WOW.
They made WOW everything EQ wasn't with aspects they would've liked in EQ.
The result... WOW's the big kid on the block for a number of years. Of course everyone else will emulate this success trying to do the same.
For good or for bad, everything adapts one way or the other. To understand and explain why and the reasons for the adaptation; understanding what it was previously and now is crucial. This discussion, frankly lacks all the above and is just punching in the dark.
The evolution of MMo's has nothing to do with age.
It has everything to do with Everquest. WTF am I talking about ? Everquest was king of the hill for many years. It was a punishing game even for casual people. Some of the players from top EQ guilds, Tigole Bitties aka Jeff Kaplan, Furor of FOH went on to become developers for Blizzard and WOW.
They made WOW everything EQ wasn't with aspects they would've liked in EQ.
The result... WOW's the big kid on the block for a number of years. Of course everyone else will emulate this success trying to do the same.
This doesn't explain why WoW itself changed over the years. The vanilla wow pvp high warlord grind was more hardcore than any mmo to this day. 24/7 play was required for that.
It shows what PvP games are really all about, and no, it's not about more realism and immersion. It's about cowards hiding behind a screen to they can bully other defenseless players without any risk of direct retaliation like there would be if they acted like asshats in "real life". -Jean-Luc_Picard
Life itself is a game. So why shouldn't your game be ruined? - justmemyselfandi
The evolution of MMo's has nothing to do with age.
It has everything to do with Everquest. WTF am I talking about ? Everquest was king of the hill for many years. It was a punishing game even for casual people. Some of the players from top EQ guilds, Tigole Bitties aka Jeff Kaplan, Furor of FOH went on to become developers for Blizzard and WOW.
They made WOW everything EQ wasn't with aspects they would've liked in EQ.
The result... WOW's the big kid on the block for a number of years. Of course everyone else will emulate this success trying to do the same.
This doesn't explain why WoW itself changed over the years. The vanilla wow pvp high warlord grind was more hardcore than any mmo to this day. 24/7 play was required for that.
Because they learned from WOW. The exEQ radiers that developed WOW found out that even though they liked raiding, it really weasn't big on anyone else's list. The same with the PVP grind.
They were open-minded and willing to look at the data rather than just stick to assumptions based on their personal preference. Had they not been, WOW would probably be a 50k-player, 40-man raid, rep-grinderrific niche game right now.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
This doesn't explain why WoW itself changed over the years. The vanilla wow pvp high warlord grind was more hardcore than any mmo to this day. 24/7 play was required for that.
How much explaining do we need for that? It was obviously a terrible design, so it was changed.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
The evolution of MMo's has nothing to do with age.
It has everything to do with Everquest. WTF am I talking about ? Everquest was king of the hill for many years. It was a punishing game even for casual people. Some of the players from top EQ guilds, Tigole Bitties aka Jeff Kaplan, Furor of FOH went on to become developers for Blizzard and WOW.
They made WOW everything EQ wasn't with aspects they would've liked in EQ.
The result... WOW's the big kid on the block for a number of years. Of course everyone else will emulate this success trying to do the same.
The whole issue with that is you can't make these games any simpler or more convenient. The reason WoW was popular is because people were both frustrated and burnt out on games like EQ which required a lot of effort to complete. People who couldn't level, group, or complete raids in EQ could now do so in WoW. It was like taking a vacation from work. It's success was predicated on going from a model that was at times like a job to a model that was more just extremely simple entertainment. The question is how does that strategy attract players to other games built on the same premise? It doesn't because going from a vacation to another vacation doesn't provide nearly as much incentive to switch games.
Comments
ROFL!
It shows what PvP games are really all about, and no, it's not about more realism and immersion. It's about cowards hiding behind a screen to they can bully other defenseless players without any risk of direct retaliation like there would be if they acted like asshats in "real life". -Jean-Luc_Picard
Life itself is a game. So why shouldn't your game be ruined? - justmemyselfandi
Pick apparent random phrases from my paragraph and correlate them? Like you are with 3 different numbers from different survey census?
Need I go further?
Also, I don't know what you're getting into about the abuse there. I guess you went into defense mode kinda quick and read into what I said in a way I never intended.
Your explanation states baseless opinions exists and are wrong, however, they are not formed from facts (right or wrong). Do you not see your own mistake here?
A lie is a belief based on incorrect or incomplete information/fact - does this not constitute the correlation of the two? Ignore right or wrong because that is purely subjective and we're having an objective debate here, no?
This is why you shouldn't try to hero when you can't even understand "read between the lines"
Also, I'm trying to signify the importance of free speech and everyone's rights to their opinion. I pointed out with absolute clarity that JohnP the OP of this thread, is dismissing everyone's opinions to be wrong cause it lacks a source with a patronising undertone as well. However, he himself does not even possess a shred of FACT that are able to be related to each other. So then, what gives him the right to dismiss and force sourcing/citing of opinion?
*Edited to explain what my cave comment meant cause you seem to miss every word I write
Shakes head*
I am waiting for the hahaha trolled you defense any minute now.
It shows what PvP games are really all about, and no, it's not about more realism and immersion. It's about cowards hiding behind a screen to they can bully other defenseless players without any risk of direct retaliation like there would be if they acted like asshats in "real life". -Jean-Luc_Picard
Life itself is a game. So why shouldn't your game be ruined? - justmemyselfandi
Logic is out the window when you patronise others for their opinion and lack common sense to think for yourself.
Sorry, as much as you want me to say that in an effort to push out my last gripes with you, not happening.
A fact is only a fact if the people talking about it acknowledge it as such. Until then, it's merely an opinion based on a concept between ignorant people. Thus why, for example, people in the world are still engaging in witch burning regardless of any "facts" as to why its wrong and pointless, it's just their opinion that it's for the best, and they have had no factual evidence that could possibly back up this thought.
Also, I don't know what you're talking about with this "hero" bs, I only skimmed the thread and responded to something that caught my eye. I assume you're thinking of yourself as some sort of victim over something I have no clue about. You should probably go see a therapist for that. I'll state clearly that this was in no way an attack, and you come across reasonably intelligent if narrow-minded.
But, that's that, I won't expect you to comprehend and/or agree with anything I've said, I've said my piece.
You want to be on your way? Then why reply here and talk as if you're the saint? Give me a break.
Just ROFL stuff.
It shows what PvP games are really all about, and no, it's not about more realism and immersion. It's about cowards hiding behind a screen to they can bully other defenseless players without any risk of direct retaliation like there would be if they acted like asshats in "real life". -Jean-Luc_Picard
Life itself is a game. So why shouldn't your game be ruined? - justmemyselfandi
I don't care what your title is ceo, chairman, cfo whatever. $$$ above all.
Hence why it is our fault.
It shows what PvP games are really all about, and no, it's not about more realism and immersion. It's about cowards hiding behind a screen to they can bully other defenseless players without any risk of direct retaliation like there would be if they acted like asshats in "real life". -Jean-Luc_Picard
Life itself is a game. So why shouldn't your game be ruined? - justmemyselfandi
Unless of course they're the kind of parents like my sister-in-law; love my nephews to death (they're 4/4/7 years old) but to give an example: whenever they eat, each spoonful of food at every meal is a fucking negotiation. It's painful to observe and bloody loud and stressful. When you're a child you eat what's put in front of you end of story. This is but one example. If we're talking about parents like this then yeah, I can believe their day is pretty packed and likely have little to no time to play video games.
Most parents are not like this though, so I agree with you, the whole kid thing is an overblown excuse. The people I've been playing EVE with for almost a decade now manage just fine. It's a BS excuse unless of course... ^^
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
This isn't rocket science.
It shows what PvP games are really all about, and no, it's not about more realism and immersion. It's about cowards hiding behind a screen to they can bully other defenseless players without any risk of direct retaliation like there would be if they acted like asshats in "real life". -Jean-Luc_Picard
Life itself is a game. So why shouldn't your game be ruined? - justmemyselfandi
It has everything to do with Everquest. WTF am I talking about ? Everquest was king of the hill for many years. It was a punishing game even for casual people. Some of the players from top EQ guilds, Tigole Bitties aka Jeff Kaplan, Furor of FOH went on to become developers for Blizzard and WOW.
They made WOW everything EQ wasn't with aspects they would've liked in EQ.
The result... WOW's the big kid on the block for a number of years. Of course everyone else will emulate this success trying to do the same.
It shows what PvP games are really all about, and no, it's not about more realism and immersion. It's about cowards hiding behind a screen to they can bully other defenseless players without any risk of direct retaliation like there would be if they acted like asshats in "real life". -Jean-Luc_Picard
Life itself is a game. So why shouldn't your game be ruined? - justmemyselfandi
They were open-minded and willing to look at the data rather than just stick to assumptions based on their personal preference. Had they not been, WOW would probably be a 50k-player, 40-man raid, rep-grinderrific niche game right now.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver