I wouldn't call 50 hours of gameplay the same as story. I'm pretty sure Orsinium has at least 50 hours of gameplay too and it's a DLC not an Expansion. While Imperial City's gameplay value is infinite for example, just as Cyrodiil.
Either way FFXIV's quests are so badly writen than almost everyone skips them, so instead of 2mins to read something, average person takes 10 sec at best, which brings your Heavensward story to barely 6 hours for average person if it's story would be 50 hours long which it isn't.
However ESO handles it different and 20 hours for Orsinium's Story should be about average, some will need 5 hours others 50. Considering it's a TES game, with probably the best Story of any TES game to date, superb voice acting, the majority of players actually bother reading/listening during quests. And no it's not subjective, ESO is one of the best Story-driven MMOs in history, while FFXIV wouldn't even reach the top 20 list for that. Story and Quests are just not FFXIV's strenghts.
You might have a point that Zenimax should have focused more on Story after launch, but even in the base content there is 500+ hours of fully voiced story content, which casuals need more than a year to complete. ESO launched with hell of a lot solo content, the most I've ever seen in any MMO to date.
Raided Highmaul on Normal -> 952k players (9.52%) Completed Highmaul on Heroic -> 330k players (3.30%) Completed Highmaul on Mythic -> 40k players (0.40%)
Completed Blackrock Foundry on Heroic -> 214k players (2.14%) Completed Blackrock Foundry on Mythic -> 14k players (0.14%)
Raided Hellfire Citadel on Normal -> 554k players (5.54%) Completed Hellfire Citadel on Heroic -> 86k players (0.86%) Completed Hellfire Citadel on Mythic -> 3k players (0.03%)
WoD has just Raids and nothing else. It was either Raid or go away. And yet less than 10% of those 10mil bothered to Raid? Raiding is a niche, more now than ever. It's not worth giving so much resources into it, when most players hate group interactions of that scale. Keeping a 10-20man raid together requires too much work, so it's not odd that players today don't want to bother with it.
MMORPG doesn't mean group or go away. It should be a game with a ton of solo content, solo endgame, with other players running around, and optionally some group dungeons/raids too, which don't reward better gear than solo endgame. Times are changing, players don't want forced group interactions nor forced group endgame, they only want it as an option.
You're right, Heavensward has a lot more than 50 hours of gameplay. That's why I've been playing it everyday for the past 2 months and still have plenty of things to do.
I don't skip story quests in ffxiv and neither do most of the people I play with, so you are wrong about that. On the contrary, by the time I was finished with my own faction's quests in ESO, I was pretty much tired of reading/questing and just wanted to get through the VR levels, so I skipped through most of the quests. So much for that.
Some people like to rush through stuff, that's not the developer's fault. Also, voice acting does not constitute "content" just because it takes longer to get through than reading stuff quickly.
You can't say it's not subjective when you say something like "best story ever" for ESO, because it is. That's your opinion and you can't argue it. I'm sure quite many would disagree.
I can't verify your WoW stats, but they are contrary to what I've heard, and I did find this:
Heroic Hellfire Citadel
H: Hellfire Assault 16688 (45.06%) Hellfire Assault Heroic videos
H: Iron Reaver 15464 (41.75%) Iron Reaver Heroic videos
H: Kormrok 15305 (41.32%) Kormrok Heroic videos
H: Hellfire High Council 15167 (40.95%) Hellfire High Council Heroic videos
H: Kilrogg Deadeye 14593 (39.40%) Kilrogg Deadeye Heroic videos
H: Gorefiend 13858 (37.42%) Gorefiend Heroic videos
H: Shadow-Lord Iskar 11558 (31.21%) Shadow-Lord Iskar Heroic videos
H: Socrethar the Eternal 10305 (27.82%) Socrethar the Eternal Heroic videos
H: Tyrant Velhari 8710 (23.52%) Tyrant Velhari Heroic videos
H: Fel Lord Zakuun 10311 (27.84%) Fel Lord Zakuun Heroic videos
H: Xhul'horac 9423 (25.44%) Xhul'horac Heroic videos
H: Mannoroth 8160 (22.03%) Mannoroth Heroic videos
H: Archimonde 5762 (15.56%) Archimonde Heroic videos
Which would indicate that quite a lot more people are raiding than your stats. This is heroic mode, who knows how many people do LFR. Also keep in mind that 10% of 10 million players is still more than ESO's total population, hardly a niche market.
Keeping an 8-man group together in FF is not really that much work, most groups are just fine. 20-man groups I can see being a problem. And it is worth it because nothing else in an MMO really compares to the experience of raiding.
While I agree that MMOs should have plenty of solo content for people that aren't that interested in grouping, people should be rewarded for grouping to give them incentive to group and that IS what a MULTIPLAYER game is all about. Sorry but this whole trend of solo players getting the same rewards as grouping is absurd and needs to stop asap.
Currently playing: Elder Scrolls Online, Elite: Dangerous | Recently played: FFXIV, Rift, LoTRO, Diablo 3, Path of Exile, Guild Wars 2 | Single player RPGs: Dragon Age Inquisition, Skyrim
I wouldn't call 50 hours of gameplay the same as story. I'm pretty sure Orsinium has at least 50 hours of gameplay too and it's a DLC not an Expansion. While Imperial City's gameplay value is infinite for example, just as Cyrodiil.
Either way FFXIV's quests are so badly writen than almost everyone skips them, so instead of 2mins to read something, average person takes 10 sec at best, which brings your Heavensward story to barely 6 hours for average person if it's story would be 50 hours long which it isn't.
However ESO handles it different and 20 hours for Orsinium's Story should be about average, some will need 5 hours others 50. Considering it's a TES game, with probably the best Story of any TES game to date, superb voice acting, the majority of players actually bother reading/listening during quests. And no it's not subjective, ESO is one of the best Story-driven MMOs in history, while FFXIV wouldn't even reach the top 20 list for that. Story and Quests are just not FFXIV's strenghts.
You might have a point that Zenimax should have focused more on Story after launch, but even in the base content there is 500+ hours of fully voiced story content, which casuals need more than a year to complete. ESO launched with hell of a lot solo content, the most I've ever seen in any MMO to date.
WoD has just Raids and nothing else. It was either Raid or go away. And yet less than 10% of those 10mil bothered to Raid? Raiding is a niche, more now than ever. It's not worth giving so much resources into it, when most players hate group interactions of that scale. Keeping a 10-20man raid together requires too much work, so it's not odd that players today don't want to bother with it.
MMORPG doesn't mean group or go away. It should be a game with a ton of solo content, solo endgame, with other players running around, and optionally some group dungeons/raids too, which don't reward better gear than solo endgame. Times are changing, players don't want forced group interactions nor forced group endgame, they only want it as an option.
"Which would indicate that quite a lot more people are raiding than your stats. This is heroic mode, who knows how many people do LFR. Also keep in mind that 10% of 10 million players is still more than ESO's total population, hardly a niche market.
Keeping an 8-man group together in FF is not really that much work, most groups are just fine. 20-man groups I can see being a problem. And it is worth it because nothing else in an MMO really compares to the experience of raiding.
While I agree that MMOs should have plenty of solo content for people that aren't that interested in grouping, people should be rewarded for grouping to give them incentive to group and that IS what a MULTIPLAYER game is all about. Sorry but this whole trend of solo players getting the same rewards as grouping is absurd and needs to stop asap."
If you believe ESO has less than one million players you are fooling yourself. That's neither here nor there though.
When it comes to rewards group based vs solo I think it comes down to challenge. What I faced yesterday in ESO's Maelstrom Arena was on par with the toughest content I've faced in an mmorpg to date. This is coming from a person who raided 6 nights a week in a world ranking guild in WoW.
I'm still "lol'ing" over the best MMO for the last 1.5 yrs.
That in itself has been very entertaining.
Also to correct something based off of the PTS Patch Notes .......ESO doesn't have 20 hrs of JUST story quests in Orsinium its 20 hours of story and normal quests.
So if I wanted to compare value of the ESO DLC with 20 hrs of story and quest content or FFXIV with Heavensward with 50 hrs of story and quest content along with New Dungeons, New Primals, New Raids and plenty of New Zones and other content to do, I'd take Heavensward.
Also to point out before anyone says ESO is a DLC not an expansion: The costs is very similar, I actually think I picked up Heavenward cheaper then ESO.
Comments
I don't skip story quests in ffxiv and neither do most of the people I play with, so you are wrong about that. On the contrary, by the time I was finished with my own faction's quests in ESO, I was pretty much tired of reading/questing and just wanted to get through the VR levels, so I skipped through most of the quests. So much for that.
Some people like to rush through stuff, that's not the developer's fault. Also, voice acting does not constitute "content" just because it takes longer to get through than reading stuff quickly.
You can't say it's not subjective when you say something like "best story ever" for ESO, because it is. That's your opinion and you can't argue it. I'm sure quite many would disagree.
I can't verify your WoW stats, but they are contrary to what I've heard, and I did find this:
Heroic Hellfire Citadel
H: Hellfire Assault 16688 (45.06%) Hellfire Assault Heroic videos
H: Iron Reaver 15464 (41.75%) Iron Reaver Heroic videos
H: Kormrok 15305 (41.32%) Kormrok Heroic videos
H: Hellfire High Council 15167 (40.95%) Hellfire High Council Heroic videos
H: Kilrogg Deadeye 14593 (39.40%) Kilrogg Deadeye Heroic videos
H: Gorefiend 13858 (37.42%) Gorefiend Heroic videos
H: Shadow-Lord Iskar 11558 (31.21%) Shadow-Lord Iskar Heroic videos
H: Socrethar the Eternal 10305 (27.82%) Socrethar the Eternal Heroic videos
H: Tyrant Velhari 8710 (23.52%) Tyrant Velhari Heroic videos
H: Fel Lord Zakuun 10311 (27.84%) Fel Lord Zakuun Heroic videos
H: Xhul'horac 9423 (25.44%) Xhul'horac Heroic videos
H: Mannoroth 8160 (22.03%) Mannoroth Heroic videos
H: Archimonde 5762 (15.56%) Archimonde Heroic videos
Which would indicate that quite a lot more people are raiding than your stats. This is heroic mode, who knows how many people do LFR. Also keep in mind that 10% of 10 million players is still more than ESO's total population, hardly a niche market.
Keeping an 8-man group together in FF is not really that much work, most groups are just fine. 20-man groups I can see being a problem. And it is worth it because nothing else in an MMO really compares to the experience of raiding.
While I agree that MMOs should have plenty of solo content for people that aren't that interested in grouping, people should be rewarded for grouping to give them incentive to group and that IS what a MULTIPLAYER game is all about. Sorry but this whole trend of solo players getting the same rewards as grouping is absurd and needs to stop asap.
Currently playing: Elder Scrolls Online, Elite: Dangerous | Recently played: FFXIV, Rift, LoTRO, Diablo 3, Path of Exile, Guild Wars 2 | Single player RPGs: Dragon Age Inquisition, Skyrim
"Which would indicate that quite a lot more people are raiding than your stats. This is heroic mode, who knows how many people do LFR. Also keep in mind that 10% of 10 million players is still more than ESO's total population, hardly a niche market.
Keeping an 8-man group together in FF is not really that much work, most groups are just fine. 20-man groups I can see being a problem. And it is worth it because nothing else in an MMO really compares to the experience of raiding.
While I agree that MMOs should have plenty of solo content for people that aren't that interested in grouping, people should be rewarded for grouping to give them incentive to group and that IS what a MULTIPLAYER game is all about. Sorry but this whole trend of solo players getting the same rewards as grouping is absurd and needs to stop asap."
If you believe ESO has less than one million players you are fooling yourself. That's neither here nor there though.
When it comes to rewards group based vs solo I think it comes down to challenge. What I faced yesterday in ESO's Maelstrom Arena was on par with the toughest content I've faced in an mmorpg to date. This is coming from a person who raided 6 nights a week in a world ranking guild in WoW.
That in itself has been very entertaining.
Also to correct something based off of the PTS Patch Notes .......ESO doesn't have 20 hrs of JUST story quests in Orsinium its 20 hours of story and normal quests.
So if I wanted to compare value of the ESO DLC with 20 hrs of story and quest content or FFXIV with Heavensward with 50 hrs of story and quest content along with New Dungeons, New Primals, New Raids and plenty of New Zones and other content to do, I'd take Heavensward.
Also to point out before anyone says ESO is a DLC not an expansion: The costs is very similar, I actually think I picked up Heavenward cheaper then ESO.