This seems like a game that isn't backed by huge amounts of money. When you start considering that, you start to realize that the game will cut corners in certain areas to make up for the lack of funds. If those cut corners are housing, Crafting, things to do outside of dungeon/quest crawling, then I already am not interested.
The devs have said themselves in the last information dump, that if they do not get a another round of investments, development is more or less toast.
That being the case, I personally fail to see why there is any hype at all for this title, but every game has its diehard boosters [mod edit]
This seems like a game that isn't backed by huge amounts of money. When you start considering that, you start to realize that the game will cut corners in certain areas to make up for the lack of funds. If those cut corners are housing, Crafting, things to do outside of dungeon/quest crawling, then I already am not interested.
The devs have said themselves in the last information dump, that if they do not get a another round of investments, development is more or less toast.
That being the case, I personally fail to see why there is any hype at all for this title, but every game has its diehard boosters
[mod edit]
Why do you keep propagating this lie? They never said they were reliant on further investments. Not before their recent investor, and certainly not after.
Your anti-hype is far less rational than anything I've seen on this sub-forum. This is a project of passion. They were working on their own dime prior to funding. It might have taken a long time for the game to launch, and probably would have resulted in a far lower quality end product, but they had no intention of stopping or even postponing development pending funding.
Pantheon will have a strong, skilled, mature, AND well educated player base, another reason to go down on this. People who will play with passion, who seek true adventures
Regardless, a game with that longevity and a stable playerbase will do well on P2P, just as they did in the past.
The problem is no MMO has been able to pull off a stable playerbase in the last several years - including the almighty WoW. And the problem is NOT THE GAMES - it's the current players tendencies to jump from game to game no matter how good the games are - many players simply don't have any interest to stick to a single game like they did 10+ years ago. People look at the new shiny and try it - steam makes it far too easy.
Also there is an inherent business problem with a pure P2P model - the hard spending ceiling per player.
Imagine running a business where you allow any single customer to only spend $15 per month -
- you lose out on customers who would spend $5, or maybe $10
- some customers can easily spend $100s and $1000s and you lose out on that revenue as well
- A customer who has not come by your business in a while but might want to take a 10min peek will be reluctant to spend a whole $15 just for a quick look
Lastly once you start to lose customers (inevitable in online games over time) - it's impossible to recover - this is why over time just about every online game has shifted to F2P + cash shop
Pure P2P model is dead for MMOs
Also in general there is a growing dislike of subscription models in other industries - example paid TV/Cable/Satellite "packages" - where you have to shell out a subscription price for a package where you only want to watch one show - like Game of Thrones - but you are forced to buy HBO package.
The ability to only pay for a single show is that you want to watch is an overwhelmingly picked option in all the market research.
Bottom line - there's a growing preference for "pay for features I want" - and drop the subscription.
It's hard to shift a public perception of a something that is deemed as negative - aka subscription services.
Wrong and jaded, P2P is not dead, the market is dead !
A poll was conducted here on the General forums and it was overwhelmingly voted for P2P over F2P.
DMKano is all around this site promoting Free to Play for some reason.
You have to understand, mmos are ALL RELEASED WITH 30 DAYS OF CONTENT. That is why players are jumping ship. They follow a story line to the end, then no replay value !
30 days of content
No reason for community to keep you logged in
Simple mindless games.
Grouping mini games.
Someone please explain why anyone would play a resent released game more than 30 days ?
Somehow I have a hunch that anyone including the weak, unskilled immature and uneducated will be able to play it too.
The only relevant thing from this list is "immature".
Unskilled, well we all have been beginners at some point. As long as people are willing to learn, thats cool.
Weak and uneducated, well strength isnt really needed for playing a computer game and as long as people can read and write, much more education isnt really necessary. Well, some basic math. You should know that +10 AC is better than +5 AC etc.
So what remains is immature and I think in a group focused game like this, such people will have to learn social skills or really have a hard time.
The problem is no MMO has been able to pull off a stable playerbase in the last several years - including the almighty WoW.
AFAIK Blizzard is ruled by greedy investors now who really dont care how stable the playerbase is as long as the total number of players is always high.
AFAIK WoW was a pretty good game, challengewise, when it got released.
I also think these subscription only crusaders don't understand that the sub model is going away not just because players are tired of them, but more importantly because game companies don't feel subscriptions alone are netting them enough income.
What gives you that idea? Have you ever sat down and done the math on subs? Subs are plenty sufficient to keep a game up and running. Brad even talked about this in one of his blog discussions.
The reason most moved to a FTP model is because retaining subs is nearly impossible with the way that games are designed today. You can't make content in such a way that everyone can solo the content and consume years of development in a couple weeks. This leaves you using mundane gimmicks to try and retain the subs which never work (ie dalies, token grinds for end game gear that has no purpose, etc...).
FTP development model allows them to design the game in a way that encourages store use. For instance, you make your exp ridiculously long grinds of bland process for little reward, then sell exp/faction/etc... potions to "lessen" the monotony. You put lottery based reward systems that disallow proper risk/reward and then sell gimmicks that increase roll chances. You imbalance the economy with purchasable currency which creates a treadmill of continued purchase. The list goes on and on.
FTP games have become monetary gimmicks where at least for the short term, they can increase revenue greatly with common marketing gimmicks. In the end, for a FTP game, you need a MASSIVE player base as only roughly 10% of that base usually use the store. The moment your player base begins to shrink, then the game goes into maintenance mode or they end up sun setting it.
With a PTP there is much more pressure to create a consistent amount of quality content to keep people interested and playing. There is no need for that with FTP, you just need to have good gimmicks to encourage people to throw money away to bypass things in the game that are boring. That is, FTP has you pay them to tolerate their game play, PTP has you pay them to provide enjoyable content. Their focus of design between the two are night and day.
I have my doubts this team can pull it off,i sense a very limited budget and too much sounds like they want to revive the same old same old of yesteryear.
There is only one game i want any part of from days gone by and that is some of FFXI.Take some of the systems and class ideas and evolve from there,i do not want another DCUO or EQ or Ultima and definitely nothing like Wow.
I can tell you the one aspect that turns me off every time>>>>Yellow markers over npc heads.If i see that i know right away it is not going to be a game that i want to play.There are many other signs i look for that tell me instantly if a developer has the mindset to create great things or just looking to rehash bad ideas just because they can and it is easier.
That is because EQ worked, has been out for near 20 years and players of the EQ generation want that type of play they had in the past, not what mainstream is providing now.
The point of Pantheon is to provide what worked again. When WoW came out, everyone copied WoW because it was successful, but they continued to copy WoW for all of its faults as well. Each step WoW made in the direction of mainstreaming, everyone else did and the result is what you see today, boring treadmill theme park mmos where everyone wins all the time because losing wouldn't be fun!
As for the yellow markers, Pantheon is not going to do that. Read up on their site, the discussion, goals, etc... What they are doing is everything that MMOs these days are not. That is a good thing.
I also think these subscription only crusaders don't understand that the sub model is going away not just because players are tired of them, but more importantly because game companies don't feel subscriptions alone are netting them enough income.
What gives you that idea? Have you ever sat down and done the math on subs? Subs are plenty sufficient to keep a game up and running. Brad even talked about this in one of his blog discussions.
The reason most moved to a FTP model is because retaining subs is nearly impossible with the way that games are designed today. You can't make content in such a way that everyone can solo the content and consume years of development in a couple weeks. This leaves you using mundane gimmicks to try and retain the subs which never work (ie dalies, token grinds for end game gear that has no purpose, etc...).
FTP development model allows them to design the game in a way that encourages store use. For instance, you make your exp ridiculously long grinds of bland process for little reward, then sell exp/faction/etc... potions to "lessen" the monotony. You put lottery based reward systems that disallow proper risk/reward and then sell gimmicks that increase roll chances. You imbalance the economy with purchasable currency which creates a treadmill of continued purchase. The list goes on and on.
FTP games have become monetary gimmicks where at least for the short term, they can increase revenue greatly with common marketing gimmicks. In the end, for a FTP game, you need a MASSIVE player base as only roughly 10% of that base usually use the store. The moment your player base begins to shrink, then the game goes into maintenance mode or they end up sun setting it.
With a PTP there is much more pressure to create a consistent amount of quality content to keep people interested and playing. There is no need for that with FTP, you just need to have good gimmicks to encourage people to throw money away to bypass things in the game that are boring. That is, FTP has you pay them to tolerate their game play, PTP has you pay them to provide enjoyable content. Their focus of design between the two are night and day.
Sinist is right F2P is a gimmick for short games.
This should have a sticky posted on every game forum, because it's a fact.
Instead we have to fight about the crap free-to-play over and over again !
People who dont see that F2P is taking over has no clue. Games like Candy Crush are making millions a buck or two at a time. Optional subs and cash shops give players the freedom to pick where they come in at to support a game. Or just get the few things they want. In the end, F2P, P2P or B2P are all valid as long as the price is fair.
People who dont see that F2P is taking over has no clue. Games like Candy Crush are making millions a buck or two at a time. Optional subs and cash shops give players the freedom to pick where they come in at to support a game. Or just get the few things they want. In the end, F2P, P2P or B2P are all valid as long as the price is fair.
Taking over? Of course it has taken over, I don't think people are arguing that. The issue is if PTP can be viable. The game industry was bought out by the mega-entertainment industry. Do you not remember publishers buying out all the successful game studios (Black isle, Bioware, Blizzard, Bethesda, etc..?). They are now all subsidiaries of major mega-corporations, not the small group of people in studios making games because they loved games themselves. Now all the businesses are ran by people don't even like games, much less understand them. It is now a hard line marketing business, like the "boy band" market in the music industry.
Notice how there used to be multiple types of genres of computer games in the past? Now they are all labelled "a new and exciting rpg/adventure/action/strategy/FPS/MOBA/<insert fad> game". It is because in business, diversification in product costs more. It is more profitable to make a single product and get everyone to buy it.
As I said previously, FTP games are marketing gimmicks. It is less effort with a bigger initial profit return to go FTP as you spend less effort in game content design. You don't have to worry about cutting corners or providing continued quality content because the players have no monthly bill staring at them. Instead, you apply the convenience marketing approach through creating content people hate doing and then giving them a way to do it easier, for a price of course. I have seen idiots complain about a 15 dollar a month sub being too expensive (which totals 180 in a year), but turn around and spend 300 bucks on PTW garbage. At least the guy paying the sub can walk away if the game stops providing what it promised, the FTP guy is out the 300 bucks paid in a single month more than the sub guy does in an entire year.
Regardless, to each their own, and I am sure there will always be some variation of those FTP out there, more power to people who want to play them, but PTP is in no way dead, it just isn't common anymore. There is a market for it, but it takes a company who is willing to cater to specific needs to be profitable with it. Today's MMOs can't hack a PTP because none of them are worth paying a monthly fee in the first place.
People who dont see that F2P is taking over has no clue. Games like Candy Crush are making millions a buck or two at a time. Optional subs and cash shops give players the freedom to pick where they come in at to support a game. Or just get the few things they want. In the end, F2P, P2P or B2P are all valid as long as the price is fair.
Taking over? Of course it has taken over, I don't think people are arguing that. The issue is if PTP can be viable. The game industry was bought out by the mega-entertainment industry. Do you not remember publishers buying out all the successful game studios (Black isle, Bioware, Blizzard, Bethesda, etc..?). They are now all subsidiaries of major mega-corporations, not the small group of people in studios making games because they loved games themselves. Now all the businesses are ran by people don't even like games, much less understand them. It is now a hard line marketing business, like the "boy band" market in the music industry.
Notice how there used to be multiple types of genres of computer games in the past? Now they are all labelled "a new and exciting rpg/adventure/action/strategy/FPS/MOBA/<insert fad> game". It is because in business, diversification in product costs more. It is more profitable to make a single product and get everyone to buy it.
As I said previously, FTP games are marketing gimmicks. It is less effort with a bigger initial profit return to go FTP as you spend less effort in game content design. You don't have to worry about cutting corners or providing continued quality content because the players have no monthly bill staring at them. Instead, you apply the convenience marketing approach through creating content people hate doing and then giving them a way to do it easier, for a price of course. I have seen idiots complain about a 15 dollar a month sub being too expensive (which totals 180 in a year), but turn around and spend 300 bucks on PTW garbage. At least the guy paying the sub can walk away if the game stops providing what it promised, the FTP guy is out the 300 bucks paid in a single month more than the sub guy does in an entire year.
Regardless, to each their own, and I am sure there will always be some variation of those FTP out there, more power to people who want to play them, but PTP is in no way dead, it just isn't common anymore. There is a market for it, but it takes a company who is willing to cater to specific needs to be profitable with it. Today's MMOs can't hack a PTP because none of them are worth paying a monthly fee in the first place.
If it was still viable most MMOs would be using the model and they are not. Pure sub model is the exception to the rule now. If you could come up with a list longer then 5 companies that used it and doing well I would be shocked. Its outdated for many reasons and the biggest and most important is how we play. Most people play an MMO now for a few months and move to another MMO with a new expansion only to return 3-12 months later. With a pure sub pay wall some dont come back when they want to see whats changed. Even WoW the titan is now Sub with cash shop and the fact they have no F2P IMO is the reason they are falling in numbers so fast. Viable in this market? Nope.
Wrong and jaded, P2P is not dead, the market is dead !
A poll was conducted here on the General forums and it was overwhelmingly voted for P2P over F2P.
DMKano is all around this site promoting Free to Play for some reason.
You have to understand, mmos are ALL RELEASED WITH 30 DAYS OF CONTENT. That is why players are jumping ship. They follow a story line to the end, then no replay value !
30 days of content
No reason for community to keep you logged in
Simple mindless games.
Grouping mini games.
Someone please explain why anyone would play a resent released game more than 30 days ?
P2P is not dead... look at the overwhelming number of games that added cash shops and went f2p.
Market is dead? Lol - there are more players playing online now than at any point in history.
Reality is hard to ignore.
Promoting f2p... Again promoting reality friend
A poll on this site means diddly squat, a representation of a miniscule minority.
Also the idea that all MMOS are releases with 30 days of content .... lol
Do you believe the stuff you write?
You just moved the goal posts. This conversation was about Pay 2 Play MMOs, not the number of people playing online games in general.
The truth of the matter is, the number of people playing MMOs is stagnant. Since EverQuest's prime and the introduction of WoW, the number of people on the internet has tripled; yet the number of people playing MMOs has not increased accordingly. Not even close. The genre has actually lost people in recent years, not gained.
There are less people playing MMOs collectively than playing League of Legends on the average night. This is because the genre hasn't innovated or followed in the original direction. That direction is creating more than just a game, but virtual worlds that captivate and immerse the audience similar to TV and movies, yet with player interaction and the ability to shape the future of that world.
Until such a time as games get back to those goals and MMORPGs actually become massively multiplayer online role playing games, the average person won't be interested in the trivial, short term offerings of this genre. We need MMOs made by gamers, for gamers. We need MMOs created specifically for certain demographics, not games attempting to be all things to all people. Until then, the average player won't be subbing, nor will we see all the 100s of millions from other genres stop by to visit.
If it was still viable most MMOs would be using the model and they are not. Pure sub model is the exception to the rule now. If you could come up with a list longer then 5 companies that used it and doing well I would be shocked. Its outdated for many reasons and the biggest and most important is how we play. Most people play an MMO now for a few months and move to another MMO with a new expansion only to return 3-12 months later. With a pure sub pay wall some dont come back when they want to see whats changed. Even WoW the titan is now Sub with cash shop and the fact they have no F2P IMO is the reason they are falling in numbers so fast. Viable in this market? Nope.
People hop MMOs because of the way MMOs are designed. Also, there is more than just one audience in the MMO market. MMOs lose people because of the way they are designed. There are no games like EQ anymore, even EQ isn't designed like EQ was. So, the reason there is no sub market is because there are no sub games that are honestly trying to appeal to that market. I know hundreds of people I have played with over the years who no longer play MMOs, not because "they changed", but because the market started catering to a mentality that none of them cared for.
People hop MMO to MMO because you can consume all of any MMOs content these days in a few weeks and are left with running stupid gimmicks over and over for pointless rewards. Contrast that with when EQ was in its day where the bulk of people weren't even at level cap before the next expansion came out and you see the problem here.
In the mainstream games today, people have seen and done everything, collected every worth while loot, etc... but this was not the case in games like EQ, AC, etc... It was nearly unheard of for people to have gotten all the loot in the game and in many cases, there were many who had never got to see a given rare named pop or do a given raid boss.
So yes, it is viable, but not for main streamers, rather for those who want what EQ was and tire of the mainstream FTP gimmick games out there. Heck, as for myself, I don't even play MMOs anymore as they are all garbage. None of the many friends I have from MMOs over the years do either. There is a market, but it isn't "mainstream", there is already plenty of games for those folks, Pantheon isn't being made for them.
This seems like a game that isn't backed by huge amounts of money. When you start considering that, you start to realize that the game will cut corners in certain areas to make up for the lack of funds. If those cut corners are housing, Crafting, things to do outside of dungeon/quest crawling, then I already am not interested.
The devs have said themselves in the last information dump, that if they do not get a another round of investments, development is more or less toast.
That being the case, I personally fail to see why there is any hype at all for this title, but every game has its diehard boosters
[mod edit]
Why do you keep propagating this lie? They never said they were reliant on further investments. Not before their recent investor, and certainly not after.
Your anti-hype is far less rational than anything I've seen on this sub-forum. This is a project of passion. They were working on their own dime prior to funding. It might have taken a long time for the game to launch, and probably would have resulted in a far lower quality end product, but they had no intention of stopping or even postponing development pending funding.
Apparently reading is not fundamental.
This is what the dev released as part of their FAQ dump:
Has Pantheon been funded? How are you guys going to address the development costs of making an MMO?
In
addition to money coming in via crowdfunding, Visionary Realms received
a significant first round of funding from an angel investor earlier
this year. This enabled us to put the team on payroll as well as bring
on additional developers. We are currently seeking a second round of
funding to enable us to continue to build the team, specifically more
artists and world builders.
What they are not saying is what happens when the first round of money runs out.
And it will, barring another round of investment, which they say here in so many words.
So how are they going to continue development when the money is gone, keep going at the same rate? Pull money out of their ass? Panhandle in front of the office?
This is what is called "corporate speak". This is putting the best possible face on the fact that they do not have the investment capital to take this game to release. Yeah... they need more funding to "build the team", because that sounds so much better than "keep the lights on past next March". The reality is without more money, they will have to let a number of the paid people go (or work for free), and how can do anything BUT slow development to a crawl?
I am not the one not being rational here, and I know how a real company's finances work. You can't "will" an MMO into being just because it is a "project of passion". It takes resources, hardware, office space, software licenses, art assets and a whole bunch more, and ALL of that comes down to money.
Which they are running out of. How do we know that? Because that is what "looking for a second round of investment" means.
Another way to look at it is that P:RotF will fill a specific niche, not unlike train sims and Football manager. This ifc is a good thing since it does not have the mass-appeal to break out of said niche. Neither does it´s potential customers want it to.
But to call it "the last hope" comes of as a bit pretentious. A bit like how people who are in to indie music sometimes bemoans the "decline of the art" and holding up their own favorite band as the last bastion of said art.
I find it strange how a real mmo is known here as niche.
It's a perception created here among the thousands of free seekers !
- Free is not niche
- Liner is not niche
- Fast action is not niche
- But an open world, community based Multi-player-Game with a subscription is a niche.
Nothing against you Tawess, It just something that came to mind.
I agree. With that the definition of MMORPG has not changed, just the way developers abused the title to gain recognition. This in turn has caused many new "MMORPG" players to be misinformed of what the genre is supposed to be.
What they are not saying is what happens when the first round of money runs out. **snip**
Ah, so you are speculating. Ok, fine.. but please excuse me if I view your "speculation" with the same credibility as most gossip that exists in video gaming forums.
What they are not saying is what happens when the first round of money runs out. **snip**
Ah, so you are speculating. Ok, fine.. but please excuse me if I view your "speculation" with the same credibility as most gossip that exists in video gaming forums.
Oh? Then what does "we need a second round of funding" mean to you if, not "the first round of funding was not enough and the money is going to run out because of our monthly burn rate"?
This is called "reading comprehension", not gossip.
The FAQ says quite plainly that the more money means more people working on the game. Thus, without that money they would go back to developing it the same way they were developing it for the first year and a half... without major funding. This is not a corporate endeavor or a big business, so trying to interpret a small personal business as such doesn't work. Permitted the core members of the team have money to continue working, they will continue working. I'm sure more money means they can devote more time, but in the end its a labor of love. Pantheon is not the kind of game people look to work for to make big bucks.
Just because Visionary Realms is giving blow by blow updates, it doesn't mean anything.
You guys are reading into this too deep. All companies have problems mishaps and financial situations. Especially when it comes to a product that will not produce any revenue until completed.
What would you expect
Just sit back and wait...............Maybe will have a game, then maybe not.........My guess is yes !
Another way to look at it is that P:RotF will fill a specific niche, not unlike train sims and Football manager. This ifc is a good thing since it does not have the mass-appeal to break out of said niche. Neither does it´s potential customers want it to.
But to call it "the last hope" comes of as a bit pretentious. A bit like how people who are in to indie music sometimes bemoans the "decline of the art" and holding up their own favorite band as the last bastion of said art.
I find it strange how a real mmo is known here as niche.
It's a perception created here among the thousands of free seekers !
- Free is not niche
- Liner is not niche
- Fast action is not niche
- But an open world, community based Multi-player-Game with a subscription is a niche.
Nothing against you Tawess, It just something that came to mind.
The original real MMOs were a niche. It wasn't until the genre tried to expand that they became not a niche. It is a good thing for them to be returning to catering towards niche markets. That is what allowed them to fulfill the desires of their specific player bases.
Cant call any game the winner till it comes out. I do like what they are shooting for but I need to see solid proof they can even release before I drop money. Being a crowd funded game this maybe their greatest downfall, peoples doubts. Will say this, if they have a release date and I play a beta that shows polish I will be buying this game. People who expect the scope of a triple A MMO I think will be disappointed but I am sure they have the talent to hit a niche market. I am that niche so here is hoping.
Comments
That being the case, I personally fail to see why there is any hype at all for this title, but every game has its diehard boosters [mod edit]
Your anti-hype is far less rational than anything I've seen on this sub-forum. This is a project of passion. They were working on their own dime prior to funding. It might have taken a long time for the game to launch, and probably would have resulted in a far lower quality end product, but they had no intention of stopping or even postponing development pending funding.
Wrong and jaded, P2P is not dead, the market is dead !
A poll was conducted here on the General forums and it was overwhelmingly voted for P2P over F2P.
DMKano is all around this site promoting Free to Play for some reason.
You have to understand, mmos are ALL RELEASED WITH 30 DAYS OF CONTENT. That is why players are jumping ship. They follow a story line to the end, then no replay value !
30 days of content
No reason for community to keep you logged in
Simple mindless games.
Grouping mini games.
Someone please explain why anyone would play a resent released game more than 30 days ?
Unskilled, well we all have been beginners at some point. As long as people are willing to learn, thats cool.
Weak and uneducated, well strength isnt really needed for playing a computer game and as long as people can read and write, much more education isnt really necessary. Well, some basic math. You should know that +10 AC is better than +5 AC etc.
So what remains is immature and I think in a group focused game like this, such people will have to learn social skills or really have a hard time.
AFAIK Blizzard is ruled by greedy investors now who really dont care how stable the playerbase is as long as the total number of players is always high.
AFAIK WoW was a pretty good game, challengewise, when it got released.
Who cares about those ? Somebody only paying five bucks doesnt even pay back your fixed costs for the internet connection and maintaining the server.
The only reason companies accept free to play is because they can make money of you from the shops or make you turn subscription.
If Pantheon turns P2W, I'll be simply not interested.
The reason most moved to a FTP model is because retaining subs is nearly impossible with the way that games are designed today. You can't make content in such a way that everyone can solo the content and consume years of development in a couple weeks. This leaves you using mundane gimmicks to try and retain the subs which never work (ie dalies, token grinds for end game gear that has no purpose, etc...).
FTP development model allows them to design the game in a way that encourages store use. For instance, you make your exp ridiculously long grinds of bland process for little reward, then sell exp/faction/etc... potions to "lessen" the monotony. You put lottery based reward systems that disallow proper risk/reward and then sell gimmicks that increase roll chances. You imbalance the economy with purchasable currency which creates a treadmill of continued purchase. The list goes on and on.
FTP games have become monetary gimmicks where at least for the short term, they can increase revenue greatly with common marketing gimmicks. In the end, for a FTP game, you need a MASSIVE player base as only roughly 10% of that base usually use the store. The moment your player base begins to shrink, then the game goes into maintenance mode or they end up sun setting it.
With a PTP there is much more pressure to create a consistent amount of quality content to keep people interested and playing. There is no need for that with FTP, you just need to have good gimmicks to encourage people to throw money away to bypass things in the game that are boring. That is, FTP has you pay them to tolerate their game play, PTP has you pay them to provide enjoyable content. Their focus of design between the two are night and day.
The point of Pantheon is to provide what worked again. When WoW came out, everyone copied WoW because it was successful, but they continued to copy WoW for all of its faults as well. Each step WoW made in the direction of mainstreaming, everyone else did and the result is what you see today, boring treadmill theme park mmos where everyone wins all the time because losing wouldn't be fun!
As for the yellow markers, Pantheon is not going to do that. Read up on their site, the discussion, goals, etc... What they are doing is everything that MMOs these days are not. That is a good thing.
Sinist is right F2P is a gimmick for short games.
This should have a sticky posted on every game forum, because it's a fact.
Instead we have to fight about the crap free-to-play over and over again !
Taking over? Of course it has taken over, I don't think people are arguing that. The issue is if PTP can be viable. The game industry was bought out by the mega-entertainment industry. Do you not remember publishers buying out all the successful game studios (Black isle, Bioware, Blizzard, Bethesda, etc..?). They are now all subsidiaries of major mega-corporations, not the small group of people in studios making games because they loved games themselves. Now all the businesses are ran by people don't even like games, much less understand them. It is now a hard line marketing business, like the "boy band" market in the music industry.
Notice how there used to be multiple types of genres of computer games in the past? Now they are all labelled "a new and exciting rpg/adventure/action/strategy/FPS/MOBA/<insert fad> game". It is because in business, diversification in product costs more. It is more profitable to make a single product and get everyone to buy it.
As I said previously, FTP games are marketing gimmicks. It is less effort with a bigger initial profit return to go FTP as you spend less effort in game content design. You don't have to worry about cutting corners or providing continued quality content because the players have no monthly bill staring at them. Instead, you apply the convenience marketing approach through creating content people hate doing and then giving them a way to do it easier, for a price of course. I have seen idiots complain about a 15 dollar a month sub being too expensive (which totals 180 in a year), but turn around and spend 300 bucks on PTW garbage. At least the guy paying the sub can walk away if the game stops providing what it promised, the FTP guy is out the 300 bucks paid in a single month more than the sub guy does in an entire year.
Regardless, to each their own, and I am sure there will always be some variation of those FTP out there, more power to people who want to play them, but PTP is in no way dead, it just isn't common anymore. There is a market for it, but it takes a company who is willing to cater to specific needs to be profitable with it. Today's MMOs can't hack a PTP because none of them are worth paying a monthly fee in the first place.
The truth of the matter is, the number of people playing MMOs is stagnant. Since EverQuest's prime and the introduction of WoW, the number of people on the internet has tripled; yet the number of people playing MMOs has not increased accordingly. Not even close. The genre has actually lost people in recent years, not gained.
There are less people playing MMOs collectively than playing League of Legends on the average night. This is because the genre hasn't innovated or followed in the original direction. That direction is creating more than just a game, but virtual worlds that captivate and immerse the audience similar to TV and movies, yet with player interaction and the ability to shape the future of that world.
Until such a time as games get back to those goals and MMORPGs actually become massively multiplayer online role playing games, the average person won't be interested in the trivial, short term offerings of this genre. We need MMOs made by gamers, for gamers. We need MMOs created specifically for certain demographics, not games attempting to be all things to all people. Until then, the average player won't be subbing, nor will we see all the 100s of millions from other genres stop by to visit.
People hop MMO to MMO because you can consume all of any MMOs content these days in a few weeks and are left with running stupid gimmicks over and over for pointless rewards. Contrast that with when EQ was in its day where the bulk of people weren't even at level cap before the next expansion came out and you see the problem here.
In the mainstream games today, people have seen and done everything, collected every worth while loot, etc... but this was not the case in games like EQ, AC, etc... It was nearly unheard of for people to have gotten all the loot in the game and in many cases, there were many who had never got to see a given rare named pop or do a given raid boss.
So yes, it is viable, but not for main streamers, rather for those who want what EQ was and tire of the mainstream FTP gimmick games out there. Heck, as for myself, I don't even play MMOs anymore as they are all garbage. None of the many friends I have from MMOs over the years do either. There is a market, but it isn't "mainstream", there is already plenty of games for those folks, Pantheon isn't being made for them.
This is what the dev released as part of their FAQ dump:
Has Pantheon been funded? How are you guys going to address the development costs of making an MMO?
In addition to money coming in via crowdfunding, Visionary Realms received a significant first round of funding from an angel investor earlier this year. This enabled us to put the team on payroll as well as bring on additional developers. We are currently seeking a second round of funding to enable us to continue to build the team, specifically more artists and world builders.What they are not saying is what happens when the first round of money runs out.
And it will, barring another round of investment, which they say here in so many words.
So how are they going to continue development when the money is gone, keep going at the same rate? Pull money out of their ass? Panhandle in front of the office?
This is what is called "corporate speak". This is putting the best possible face on the fact that they do not have the investment capital to take this game to release. Yeah... they need more funding to "build the team", because that sounds so much better than "keep the lights on past next March". The reality is without more money, they will have to let a number of the paid people go (or work for free), and how can do anything BUT slow development to a crawl?
I am not the one not being rational here, and I know how a real company's finances work. You can't "will" an MMO into being just because it is a "project of passion". It takes resources, hardware, office space, software licenses, art assets and a whole bunch more, and ALL of that comes down to money.
Which they are running out of. How do we know that? Because that is what "looking for a second round of investment" means.
I agree. With that the definition of MMORPG has not changed, just the way developers abused the title to gain recognition. This in turn has caused many new "MMORPG" players to be misinformed of what the genre is supposed to be.
This is called "reading comprehension", not gossip.
Just because Visionary Realms is giving blow by blow updates, it doesn't mean anything.
You guys are reading into this too deep. All companies have problems mishaps and financial situations. Especially when it comes to a product that will not produce any revenue until completed.
What would you expect
Just sit back and wait...............Maybe will have a game, then maybe not.........My guess is yes !