Ever notice some players don't understand or imagine uncommon MMORPG concepts?

Vermillion_Raventhal

Its one thing that I have seen is that the genre has many standardized features. Discussing old or outside of the box feature with people who never  played it... they act likely your talking about something impossible or crazy.  

moosecatlol

I had someone try to tell me you couldn't have a listen/listen hybrid based server structure in an mmo in any capacity and wanted to scream "WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN FOR THE PAST 6 YEARS!"

anemo

When they said MMOs will never be able to support terraforming(environmental manipulation). 

waynejr2

Vermillion_Raventhal said:

Its one thing that I have seen is that the genre has many standardized features. Discussing old or outside of the box feature with people who never  played it... they act likely your talking about something impossible or crazy.  

sometimes it is about how you present the message.

sunandshadow

Yeah I had someone tell me the other day that speed and accuracy gameplay doesn't work very well over the internet. o_O

Loktofeit

anemo said:

When they said MMOs will never be able to support terraforming(environmental manipulation). 

When didn't they support it?  Second Life, Shadowbane, Wurm, Shores of Hazeron (in its own wonderful way)... seems like there's always been at least one current MMO with terraforming. 

l2avism

The worst is when you start a thread about something sandbox and people start bringing up instancing and dungeons or leveling and gear progression.
With today's gamer if it isn't a themepark or a moba, then it isn't possible.

There was a comment in the camelot unchained forums where someone said that it is impossible to have thousands of players in the same battle. Obviously they never played the original Dark Age of Camelot (or any other old game for that matter). Modern games lag with 10 people on screen.

Loktofeit

l2avism said:

The worst is when you start a thread about something sandbox and people start bringing up instancing and dungeons or leveling and gear progression.
With today's gamer if it isn't a themepark or a moba, then it isn't possible.

There was a comment in the camelot unchained forums where someone said that it is impossible to have thousands of players in the same battle. Obviously they never played the original Dark Age of Camelot (or any other old game for that matter). Modern games lag with 10 people on screen.

For those of us that did play DAoC, can you remind us what server/battle had thousands of players in the same battle?

Albatroes

To be fair though, those of us who have been playing MMOs for year (myself for almost 15 years now), we had to accept what we were given since choices were limited and many games were subscriptions that were available. Leveling was LOOOOOOOOONG, but also some of us may have had more time to grind out stuff. Heck, I even remember people paying me to help them level in Ragnarok Online while they had to work, but that was when they had exp be map wide. Its funny seeing people complain about not being able to get to cap in 1-2 weeks, when back in the day most games took months to hit cap ONCE (at least in FFXI it used to). Its just the sign of the times really. More options = more competition = more 'underhanded' content to win people over. The current playerbase is only a reflect of the market, just like us older gamers are a reflection of the market we played through. Sure I feel gaming used to be better content wise in the past, but I wont force it others to accept the way I like this. I do ask people to actually think about what they are getting into and question is convenience is worth sacrificing quality.

Ghavrigg

l2avism said:

The worst is when you start a thread about something sandbox and people start bringing up instancing and dungeons or leveling and gear progression.
With today's gamer if it isn't a themepark or a moba, then it isn't possible.

There was a comment in the camelot unchained forums where someone said that it is impossible to have thousands of players in the same battle. Obviously they never played the original Dark Age of Camelot (or any other old game for that matter). Modern games lag with 10 people on screen.

You realize DAoC and no MMO ever has had thousands of people battling at the same time in the same place? At best, there have been hundreds, and even that is pretty messy.

mgilbrtsn

Vermillion_Raventhal said:

Its one thing that I have seen is that the genre has many standardized features. Discussing old or outside of the box feature with people who never  played it... they act likely your talking about something impossible or crazy.  

Can you give an example?

sunandshadow

mgilbrtsn said:

Vermillion_Raventhal said:

Its one thing that I have seen is that the genre has many standardized features. Discussing old or outside of the box feature with people who never  played it... they act likely your talking about something impossible or crazy.  

Can you give an example?

I have a few examples:
- Trying to discuss minigame-style crafting with someone who has never played a game with this feature, they always regard the concept like it's from mars.
- Trying to discuss dating-sim-style interaction with NPCs with someone who has never played a game with this, ditto.
- Trying to discuss sim/time-management style crop-growing gameplay with someone who has never played a game with it usually gets a reaction of "How boring/stupid!" because they can't imagine how it could be exciting, fun, or stylish.

mgilbrtsn

I don't remember seeing this that much, so I'm not sure what they don't get.  Is it possible that it's not a matter of not understanding, but not liking the features?  There are a lot of people who don't like the crafting/gathering/growing mechanics.  I have a friend like that.  All he want to do is quests and kill.  He doesn't understand why I do enjoy the crafting and such, but he does understand the concepts.

nariusseldon

Vermillion_Raventhal said:

Its one thing that I have seen is that the genre has many standardized features. Discussing old or outside of the box feature with people who never  played it... they act likely your talking about something impossible or crazy.  

yeah .. like when you talk about MOBA, instanced pve games, instanced pvp games like WoT, or action MMORPG like Marvel Heroes ... they act like your talking about something impossible or crazy. "It is not a MMO!!!!!!"

Sounds familiar?

TheeLord

it's sometimes hard to see how fun a concept is until it's put into an actual game however.  On paper lots of things look boring or too difficult.

Distopia

A lot of people seem to think it's impossible to offer a game that caters to more than one play-style in this day and age. Or that you can't have an open world PVP system that allows those who only want PVE to have that. Some of these same folks even make claims to have played them all...

BeansnBread

Vermillion_Raventhal said:

Its one thing that I have seen is that the genre has many standardized features. Discussing old or outside of the box feature with people who never  played it... they act likely your talking about something impossible or crazy.  

This type of speculation about "people in general" is meaningless. Especially with zero examples. I would think that someone would be embarrassed bringing an assertion such as this without bringing any evidence of the claim at all.

Is there someone (give an example) that has discussed an "old or outside the box feature" that actually thinks that an "old or outside the box feature" is impossible or crazy?

It's a traditional strawman... except with no obvious motive. Which makes it just come off as jaded old man frustration.

BeansnBread

sunandshadow said:

mgilbrtsn said:

Vermillion_Raventhal said:

Its one thing that I have seen is that the genre has many standardized features. Discussing old or outside of the box feature with people who never  played it... they act likely your talking about something impossible or crazy.  

Can you give an example?

I have a few examples:
- Trying to discuss minigame-style crafting with someone who has never played a game with this feature, they always regard the concept like it's from mars.

That's not an example. It is an invented situation by you.

- Trying to discuss dating-sim-style interaction with NPCs with someone who has never played a game with this, ditto.

That's not an example. It is an invented situation by you.

- Trying to discuss sim/time-management style crop-growing gameplay with someone who has never played a game with it usually gets a reaction of "How boring/stupid!" because they can't imagine how it could be exciting, fun, or stylish.

That's not an example. It is an invented situation by you.

You need to quote one single example. One. Ever. Just one.

Quirhid

l2avism said:

The worst is when you start a thread about something sandbox and people start bringing up instancing and dungeons or leveling and gear progression.
With today's gamer if it isn't a themepark or a moba, then it isn't possible.

There was a comment in the camelot unchained forums where someone said that it is impossible to have thousands of players in the same battle. Obviously they never played the original Dark Age of Camelot (or any other old game for that matter). Modern games lag with 10 people on screen.

While I haven't played DAOC, I am doubtful whether it had thousands of players in the same battle seeing as Eve Online, which has a very basic type of movement and combat in it, has the server on its knees well before they reach a thousand players in a system.

No other game has done anything similar and DAOC is several years old. Their server technology and network code are not likely to be anything special. Otherwise it would have spread.

In this case, people rightly say "it can't be done".

Flyte27

I find it is more likely said ideas have been tried and people try to find reasoning to discredit them or they just try to discredit them on the basis that said ideas don't make money.  I find this is why we have so many bland politically correct games.  The first concern should be making a fun game IMO.  The business side should come second.

Loktofeit

BeansnBread said:

Vermillion_Raventhal said:

Its one thing that I have seen is that the genre has many standardized features. Discussing old or outside of the box feature with people who never  played it... they act likely your talking about something impossible or crazy.  

This type of speculation about "people in general" is meaningless. Especially with zero examples. I would think that someone would be embarrassed bringing an assertion such as this without bringing any evidence of the claim at all.

Is there someone (give an example) that has discussed an "old or outside the box feature" that actually thinks that an "old or outside the box feature" is impossible or crazy?

It's a traditional strawman... except with no obvious motive. Which makes it just come off as jaded old man frustration.

Usualy when people here post something like the OP, it's because of a discussion in another thread that didn't go their way. Maybe that's the case here. If not, then yeah... strawman with out any obvious motive, otherwise known as the T-word.  

nariusseldon

Distopia said:

A lot of people seem to think it's impossible to offer a game that caters to more than one play-style in this day and age. 

It is possible does not mean that it is desirable.

It is simpler, and more focused to play different games for different play-style. There is no compelling reason to me that a single game has to do it all. 

Quirhid

Flyte27 said:

I find it is more likely said ideas have been tried and people try to find reasoning to discredit them or they just try to discredit them on the basis that said ideas don't make money.  I find this is why we have so many bland politically correct games.  The first concern should be making a fun game IMO.  The business side should come second.

Political correctness? What does that have to do with anything? Fun games sell well. Otherwise people wouldn't buy them. If anything, developers tend to often "play it safe". But because of the millions of dollars invested, can really blame them?

Flyte27

Quirhid said:

Flyte27 said:

I find it is more likely said ideas have been tried and people try to find reasoning to discredit them or they just try to discredit them on the basis that said ideas don't make money.  I find this is why we have so many bland politically correct games.  The first concern should be making a fun game IMO.  The business side should come second.

Political correctness? What does that have to do with anything? Fun games sell well. Otherwise people wouldn't buy them. If anything, developers tend to often "play it safe". But because of the millions of dollars invested, can really blame them?

I would say political correctness is a big issue.  It pretty much kills anything that might offend people and usually those are the most interesting points for building a story or having an interesting world IMO.

Generally I don't blame people for wanting to protect their investment, but it does kill a lot of creativity and interesting concepts.

Axehilt

Flyte27 said:

I would say political correctness is a big issue.  It pretty much kills anything that might offend people and usually those are the most interesting points for building a story or having an interesting world IMO.

Generally I don't blame people for wanting to protect their investment, but it does kill a lot of creativity and interesting concepts.

Describing what political correctness is and why you dislike it doesn't answer his question.  He's asking for the relevance of it to this conversation.

Flyte27

Axehilt said:

Flyte27 said:

I would say political correctness is a big issue.  It pretty much kills anything that might offend people and usually those are the most interesting points for building a story or having an interesting world IMO.

Generally I don't blame people for wanting to protect their investment, but it does kill a lot of creativity and interesting concepts.

Describing what political correctness is and why you dislike it doesn't answer his question.  He's asking for the relevance of it to this conversation.

I thought that was fairly obvious.  This topic is about ideas being discarded or discredited by various players in the MMO field.  Political correctness discredits ideas based on weather they fit in with it or not.