>>> Let this be an example on how to get your money back from Cloud Imperium Games. It's not to late. >>>
You do know that its pretty easy to get a refund from CIG, do you not ? They just ask for the reason. Almost every other company does the same, not only in the gaming industry.
Erillion you clearly didn't read the part where I was denied a refund upon asking the first time.
And you threatened that if they didn't refund you that you'd "...make some forum/blog posts to further dissuade potential backers..." and yet you did anyway...... Even after getting your refund.... Interesting.....
They aren't incorrect in saying that their TOS specifically states that refunds are not given. This is the case with most crowdfunded games. However, I know that SC does. So why the flaming email when you are asked a question? [mod edit]
Well on the whole Star Citizen controversy, if Roberts would of just stuck with his original idea he would of had the money plus for it. But then he seen all the cash coming in and started making promises that a lot of developers working for him said was impossible to do. The sad part with people like the main Cry Engine dev Dan Tracy leaving (which is huge) does not look good for SC being made. With that said I think what may really piss off people is how much cash Roberts may actually walk away with in profit. That is if we ever find that out. Either way it will be a huge blow to crowd funding.
It should be noted that all your complaints about "the impossible" are reasons why people backed this game. It's the people backing the project who took it to the next level, who increased the scope of the project. Granted, it kind of screwed the original KS backers, but they were also given the opportunity to get a refund.
Secondly, Chris Roberts is not going to walk away with anything. First of all, you're assuming that the SC community would ALLOW him to walk away. In reality there would likely be a class action suit or suits filed. He's got 1 million people that he'd be pissing off. Secondly, unless he walks away in the next 6 months, he will likely have nothing left to walk away with. The current per/employee cost, per year at CIG, based on an average salary of $75,000 (which I believe was quoted somewhere but can't find it) and a labour burden of 50% (which is reasonable) is $112,500 annually. That comes out to over $28 million annually based on CIGs current 250 person staff. Someone had some other numbers kicking around for employee counts, etc., but I believe it was something like 180 the previous year and 90 the year before that.So there's probably been around $56 million in burn already, plus, plus, I think there's probably not any more than $25 million to $30 million in the bank, and I think that's being pretty generous. Either way, he's not walking away with much. Especially when he's already proven he can make $100 million relatively easily with this model. Open it up to a larger audience, then open up the store to add-on modules, space stations, planets, etc. that people can buy for crazy amounts of money and the thing is a billion dollar game. Walking away is not an option because the result of delivering the game is much more beneficial than not.
Interesting read but only speculation on your part. Heck CR could be paying him self and his wife a million a year. With how the game (or should we say no actual game) this would be pretty much a reasonable estimate if we take that article from The Escapist as being true with only 8m left. The money has to be going some where and other than commercials and the modules they have released wouldn't account for all that being gone. Or would it?
Plus with Dan Tracy leaving which is a huge deal, has to put some worry into this game actually getting done any time soon. So I think CR has a lot of work ahead of himself to get more money into this company along with some top notch developers. Like I said losing Dan Tracy is huge and it hurts them bad. Plus the rumor is a lot more are leaving very soon. The company is in trouble, so money right now has to be a concern for CR!
But am sure someone like you and Erillion will try and put a nice face on all this and say the sky isn't falling!
Well on the whole Star Citizen controversy, if Roberts would of just stuck with his original idea he would of had the money plus for it. But then he seen all the cash coming in and started making promises that a lot of developers working for him said was impossible to do. The sad part with people like the main Cry Engine dev Dan Tracy leaving (which is huge) does not look good for SC being made. With that said I think what may really piss off people is how much cash Roberts may actually walk away with in profit. That is if we ever find that out. Either way it will be a huge blow to crowd funding.
It should be noted that all your complaints about "the impossible" are reasons why people backed this game. It's the people backing the project who took it to the next level, who increased the scope of the project. Granted, it kind of screwed the original KS backers, but they were also given the opportunity to get a refund.
Secondly, Chris Roberts is not going to walk away with anything. First of all, you're assuming that the SC community would ALLOW him to walk away. In reality there would likely be a class action suit or suits filed. He's got 1 million people that he'd be pissing off. Secondly, unless he walks away in the next 6 months, he will likely have nothing left to walk away with. The current per/employee cost, per year at CIG, based on an average salary of $75,000 (which I believe was quoted somewhere but can't find it) and a labour burden of 50% (which is reasonable) is $112,500 annually. That comes out to over $28 million annually based on CIGs current 250 person staff. Someone had some other numbers kicking around for employee counts, etc., but I believe it was something like 180 the previous year and 90 the year before that.So there's probably been around $56 million in burn already, plus, plus, I think there's probably not any more than $25 million to $30 million in the bank, and I think that's being pretty generous. Either way, he's not walking away with much. Especially when he's already proven he can make $100 million relatively easily with this model. Open it up to a larger audience, then open up the store to add-on modules, space stations, planets, etc. that people can buy for crazy amounts of money and the thing is a billion dollar game. Walking away is not an option because the result of delivering the game is much more beneficial than not.
Interesting read but only speculation on your part. Heck CR could be paying him self and his wife a million a year. With how the game (or should we say no actual game) this would be pretty much a reasonable estimate if we take that article from The Escapist as being true with only 8m left. The money has to be going some where and other than commercials and the modules they have released wouldn't account for all that being gone. Or would it?
Plus with Dan Tracy leaving which is a huge deal, has to put some worry into this game actually getting done any time soon. So I think CR has a lot of work ahead of himself to get more money into this company along with some top notch developers. Like I said losing Dan Tracy is huge and it hurts them bad. Plus the rumor is a lot more are leaving very soon. The company is in trouble, so money right now has to be a concern for CR!
But am sure someone like you and Erillion will try and put a nice face on all this and say the sky isn't falling!
Not like what you have written is anything else but your own speculation
Well on the whole Star Citizen controversy, if Roberts would of just stuck with his original idea he would of had the money plus for it. But then he seen all the cash coming in and started making promises that a lot of developers working for him said was impossible to do. The sad part with people like the main Cry Engine dev Dan Tracy leaving (which is huge) does not look good for SC being made. With that said I think what may really piss off people is how much cash Roberts may actually walk away with in profit. That is if we ever find that out. Either way it will be a huge blow to crowd funding.
It should be noted that all your complaints about "the impossible" are reasons why people backed this game. It's the people backing the project who took it to the next level, who increased the scope of the project. Granted, it kind of screwed the original KS backers, but they were also given the opportunity to get a refund.
Secondly, Chris Roberts is not going to walk away with anything. First of all, you're assuming that the SC community would ALLOW him to walk away. In reality there would likely be a class action suit or suits filed. He's got 1 million people that he'd be pissing off. Secondly, unless he walks away in the next 6 months, he will likely have nothing left to walk away with. The current per/employee cost, per year at CIG, based on an average salary of $75,000 (which I believe was quoted somewhere but can't find it) and a labour burden of 50% (which is reasonable) is $112,500 annually. That comes out to over $28 million annually based on CIGs current 250 person staff. Someone had some other numbers kicking around for employee counts, etc., but I believe it was something like 180 the previous year and 90 the year before that.So there's probably been around $56 million in burn already, plus, plus, I think there's probably not any more than $25 million to $30 million in the bank, and I think that's being pretty generous. Either way, he's not walking away with much. Especially when he's already proven he can make $100 million relatively easily with this model. Open it up to a larger audience, then open up the store to add-on modules, space stations, planets, etc. that people can buy for crazy amounts of money and the thing is a billion dollar game. Walking away is not an option because the result of delivering the game is much more beneficial than not.
Interesting read but only speculation on your part. Heck CR could be paying him self and his wife a million a year. With how the game (or should we say no actual game) this would be pretty much a reasonable estimate if we take that article from The Escapist as being true with only 8m left. The money has to be going some where and other than commercials and the modules they have released wouldn't account for all that being gone. Or would it?
Plus with Dan Tracy leaving which is a huge deal, has to put some worry into this game actually getting done any time soon. So I think CR has a lot of work ahead of himself to get more money into this company along with some top notch developers. Like I said losing Dan Tracy is huge and it hurts them bad. Plus the rumor is a lot more are leaving very soon. The company is in trouble, so money right now has to be a concern for CR!
But am sure someone like you and Erillion will try and put a nice face on all this and say the sky isn't falling!
Not like what you have written is anything else but your own speculation
Except the part about losing the #1 guy Dan Tracy that knows how the Cry Engine works! That is fact!
Well on the whole Star Citizen controversy, if Roberts would of just stuck with his original idea he would of had the money plus for it. But then he seen all the cash coming in and started making promises that a lot of developers working for him said was impossible to do. The sad part with people like the main Cry Engine dev Dan Tracy leaving (which is huge) does not look good for SC being made. With that said I think what may really piss off people is how much cash Roberts may actually walk away with in profit. That is if we ever find that out. Either way it will be a huge blow to crowd funding.
It should be noted that all your complaints about "the impossible" are reasons why people backed this game. It's the people backing the project who took it to the next level, who increased the scope of the project. Granted, it kind of screwed the original KS backers, but they were also given the opportunity to get a refund.
Secondly, Chris Roberts is not going to walk away with anything. First of all, you're assuming that the SC community would ALLOW him to walk away. In reality there would likely be a class action suit or suits filed. He's got 1 million people that he'd be pissing off. Secondly, unless he walks away in the next 6 months, he will likely have nothing left to walk away with. The current per/employee cost, per year at CIG, based on an average salary of $75,000 (which I believe was quoted somewhere but can't find it) and a labour burden of 50% (which is reasonable) is $112,500 annually. That comes out to over $28 million annually based on CIGs current 250 person staff. Someone had some other numbers kicking around for employee counts, etc., but I believe it was something like 180 the previous year and 90 the year before that.So there's probably been around $56 million in burn already, plus, plus, I think there's probably not any more than $25 million to $30 million in the bank, and I think that's being pretty generous. Either way, he's not walking away with much. Especially when he's already proven he can make $100 million relatively easily with this model. Open it up to a larger audience, then open up the store to add-on modules, space stations, planets, etc. that people can buy for crazy amounts of money and the thing is a billion dollar game. Walking away is not an option because the result of delivering the game is much more beneficial than not.
Interesting read but only speculation on your part. Heck CR could be paying him self and his wife a million a year. With how the game (or should we say no actual game) this would be pretty much a reasonable estimate if we take that article from The Escapist as being true with only 8m left. The money has to be going some where and other than commercials and the modules they have released wouldn't account for all that being gone. Or would it?
Plus with Dan Tracy leaving which is a huge deal, has to put some worry into this game actually getting done any time soon. So I think CR has a lot of work ahead of himself to get more money into this company along with some top notch developers. Like I said losing Dan Tracy is huge and it hurts them bad. Plus the rumor is a lot more are leaving very soon. The company is in trouble, so money right now has to be a concern for CR!
But am sure someone like you and Erillion will try and put a nice face on all this and say the sky isn't falling!
Not like what you have written is anything else but your own speculation
Except the part about losing the #1 guy Dan Tracy that knows how the Cry Engine works! That is fact!
Yeah, that's definitely a loss, but you're assuming that Dan Tracy was the glue that was holding everything together and somehow it will now all fall apart. You're correct, the FACT is that Dan Tracy is gone. There is another FACT that goes along with that, though. That's that here's a list of former CryTek employees working at CIG: Marco Corbetta Sean Tracy Robert Stephens Cort Soest Brian Chambers Stephen Bender Allen Chen Todd Papy Pascal Muller Francesco Roccucci Arti Dave Hayo Koekkoek Gavin Bird Hannes Appell Dan Trufin Michael Barclay William Josephy Simon Vickers Stephen North John Crewe Sean Ellis Christopher Bolte Sascha Hoba (Lead Engineer from Crytek) Erasmus Brosdau Adam Rutkowski Riham Toulan Will Greenough
Pretty long list. That's a FACT. Also, it should be noted that there is a notable Lead Engineer who was the Lead Engineer on Cryengine as well. So I can respect the hit that Dan Tracy might make, the assumption that his leaving signifies the death of the game, somehow, or even a significant hit, might be over-exaggerated. Especially when CIG essentially hired all former Crytek employees (who have ample experience with the engine).
I'm still not seeing it. 90 million dollars to make a game bigger than anything we've ever imagined. Something most people in the industry say is impossible. Now there's Mark Hamill and a large cast of stars relying on this 90 million dollars - who knows how much is left.
World of Warcraft spent 200 million and it's a cartoon graphics game, with linear progression, and simple compared to what this hopes to accomplish.
I'm still not seeing it. 90 million dollars to make a game bigger than anything we've ever imagined. Something most people in the industry say is impossible. Now there's Mark Hamill and a large cast of stars relying on this 90 million dollars - who knows how much is left.
World of Warcraft spent 200 million and it's a cartoon graphics game, with linear progression, and simple compared to what this hopes to accomplish.
I'm not sure where you're pulling that number from. WoW took like $50 million to make.
On the other hand, Destiny took over a million bucks to make, as did GTA5. It's costly to make a beautiful game. Art assets are not cheap to produce any more. It's not like snapping a pic of some bricks and putting a pastel filter on it in photoshop. Cities are, literally, drawn from the ground-up. I think that's where a lot of money goes.
I'm still not seeing it. 90 million dollars to make a game bigger than anything we've ever imagined. Something most people in the industry say is impossible. Now there's Mark Hamill and a large cast of stars relying on this 90 million dollars - who knows how much is left.
World of Warcraft spent 200 million and it's a cartoon graphics game, with linear progression, and simple compared to what this hopes to accomplish.
I'm not sure where you're pulling that number from. WoW took like $50 million to make.
On the other hand, Destiny took over a million bucks to make, as did GTA5. It's costly to make a beautiful game. Art assets are not cheap to produce any more. It's not like snapping a pic of some bricks and putting a pastel filter on it in photoshop. Cities are, literally, drawn from the ground-up. I think that's where a lot of money goes.
WoW took 4.5 years and $63 million to make and that was 11 years ago with gfx that even for the time weren't pushing the boundries.
GTA 5 took $137 mill just for development.
Really 90 mill is a paltry ammount for the game they are trying to develop
WoW took 4.5 years and $63 million to make and that was 11 years ago with gfx that even for the time weren't pushing the boundries.
GTA 5 took $137 mill just for development.
Really 90 mill is a paltry ammount for the game they are trying to develop
Being a spaceship game, you save good chunk of resources since you do not have to create landscape environments.
While some things are more expensive today, some are also cheaper and RSI bought tons of middleware.
Regardless, here is the important and most disturbing part about your comment and SC in general: You plan your project within boundaries of your budget, not the other way round.
WoW took 4.5 years and $63 million to make and that was 11 years ago with gfx that even for the time weren't pushing the boundries.
GTA 5 took $137 mill just for development.
Really 90 mill is a paltry ammount for the game they are trying to develop
Being a spaceship game, you save good chunk of resources since you do not have to create landscape environments.
While some things are more expensive today, some are also cheaper and RSI bought tons of middleware.
Regardless, here is the important and most disturbing part about your comment and SC in general: You plan your project within boundarious of your budget, not the other way round.
That's the thing though they're going to have planetary environments aswell as space so that chunk of resources is still needed.
And CR is known for this I remember waiting a long time for Freelancer and when it finally came out me and my mate were like wtf is this! It was a massive let down.
Sort of depends on what that something is, doesn't it?
Watching Bernie Madoff fail was much better than the alternative.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
That's what there is currently though, just a couple of demo's really and a space sim where kb/mouse are superior to joystick control.
Do not let the fact distract you that (last time i looked and posted about it here) the Top 5 of the leaderboard all used joysticks and the Top 20 have used 50:50 % joystick/mouse.
Erillion you clearly didn't read the part where I was denied a refund upon asking the first time.
I read it very clearly .... that instead of a normal letter asking for a refund you immediately threatened them with the BBB and negative reviews.
I know of other cases (e.g. a friend of mine) that wrote a simple, normal, friendly letter and asked for a refund. They asked him why. A reason was given. A refund was given. End of story. No need for anyone to threaten anything.
In German we have a saying "So wie man in den Wald hineinruft, so tönt es zurück !" ... "What goes around, comes around."
Sort of depends on what that something is, doesn't it?
Watching Bernie Madoff fail was much better than the alternative.
Bernie Madoff was into crowdfunded games ? Interesting - i did not know that. ;-)
Have fun
See? That's what happens when you take a specific topic and turn it into a hasty generalization like you and that other guy who was talking about sociopaths did.
Some shit deserves to fail and it's good for the community when it does. There is no always in this topic.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Comments
Let this be an example on how to get your money back from Cloud Imperium Games. It's not to late.
>>>
You do know that its pretty easy to get a refund from CIG, do you not ? They just ask for the reason. Almost every other company does the same, not only in the gaming industry.
Have fun
This bit made me laugh.
With that said, after all that's been happening with SC, it will bring hope that people will stop being so blind if this game crashes and burn.
And you threatened that if they didn't refund you that you'd "...make some forum/blog posts to further dissuade potential backers..." and yet you did anyway...... Even after getting your refund.... Interesting.....
They aren't incorrect in saying that their TOS specifically states that refunds are not given. This is the case with most crowdfunded games. However, I know that SC does. So why the flaming email when you are asked a question? [mod edit]
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
Plus with Dan Tracy leaving which is a huge deal, has to put some worry into this game actually getting done any time soon. So I think CR has a lot of work ahead of himself to get more money into this company along with some top notch developers. Like I said losing Dan Tracy is huge and it hurts them bad. Plus the rumor is a lot more are leaving very soon. The company is in trouble, so money right now has to be a concern for CR!
But am sure someone like you and Erillion will try and put a nice face on all this and say the sky isn't falling!
Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event
4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.
http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/
Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!
Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event
4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.
http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/
Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!
Yeah, that's definitely a loss, but you're assuming that Dan Tracy was the glue that was holding everything together and somehow it will now all fall apart. You're correct, the FACT is that Dan Tracy is gone. There is another FACT that goes along with that, though. That's that here's a list of former CryTek employees working at CIG:
Marco Corbetta
Sean Tracy
Robert Stephens
Cort Soest
Brian Chambers
Stephen Bender
Allen Chen
Todd Papy
Pascal Muller
Francesco Roccucci
Arti Dave
Hayo Koekkoek
Gavin Bird
Hannes Appell
Dan Trufin
Michael Barclay
William Josephy
Simon Vickers
Stephen North
John Crewe
Sean Ellis
Christopher Bolte
Sascha Hoba (Lead Engineer from Crytek)
Erasmus Brosdau
Adam Rutkowski
Riham Toulan
Will Greenough
Pretty long list. That's a FACT. Also, it should be noted that there is a notable Lead Engineer who was the Lead Engineer on Cryengine as well. So I can respect the hit that Dan Tracy might make, the assumption that his leaving signifies the death of the game, somehow, or even a significant hit, might be over-exaggerated. Especially when CIG essentially hired all former Crytek employees (who have ample experience with the engine).
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
World of Warcraft spent 200 million and it's a cartoon graphics game, with linear progression, and simple compared to what this hopes to accomplish.
On the other hand, Destiny took over a million bucks to make, as did GTA5. It's costly to make a beautiful game. Art assets are not cheap to produce any more. It's not like snapping a pic of some bricks and putting a pastel filter on it in photoshop. Cities are, literally, drawn from the ground-up. I think that's where a lot of money goes.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
GTA 5 took $137 mill just for development.
Really 90 mill is a paltry ammount for the game they are trying to develop
While some things are more expensive today, some are also cheaper and RSI bought tons of middleware.
Regardless, here is the important and most disturbing part about your comment and SC in general: You plan your project within boundaries of your budget, not the other way round.
That's the thing though they're going to have planetary environments aswell as space so that chunk of resources is still needed.
And CR is known for this I remember waiting a long time for Freelancer and when it finally came out me and my mate were like wtf is this!
It was a massive let down.
Watching Bernie Madoff fail was much better than the alternative.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Have fun
Have fun
I know of other cases (e.g. a friend of mine) that wrote a simple, normal, friendly letter and asked for a refund. They asked him why. A reason was given. A refund was given. End of story. No need for anyone to threaten anything.
In German we have a saying "So wie man in den Wald hineinruft, so tönt es zurück !" ... "What goes around, comes around."
Have fun
Some shit deserves to fail and it's good for the community when it does. There is no always in this topic.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED