So NCsoft are censoring western Blade and Soul afterall?

Asm0deus

I hope this fails hard....just like scarletblade

Kiyoris

I love when people say "women in games need to be strong and empowering"

what the hell are these fruitcakes talking about??

they are pixels on a screen

how is that going to empower you?

you should probably go see the nearest shrink, before you hurt yourself

tawess

Kiyoris said:

I love when people say "women in games need to be strong and empowering"

what the hell are these fruitcakes talking about??

they are pixels on a screen

how is that going to empower you?

you should probably go see the nearest shrink, before you hurt yourself

Nice underbridgedweller tactic there... I have no doubt you are smart enough to actually understand how things fit together... You just like to get a rise out of people. 

But if you feel honest confusion i´l be glad to fill you in... berry laden dessert or not... 

KayAndroid

scorpex-x said:

So a friend just told me that along with all the censoring they are doing to the game they are also going to be adding a file integrity system to make sure you cannot mod the game and when they catch you doing it they will ban you.

They are now also rewriting quests they deem to be risque to make them more palatable for the western audience.

Do you happen to know if this also includes the famous quest where the child realizes he's been tricked and kills himself?

(The link SHOULD skip to the part where the man is explaining the lie to the kid, and then the kid does it shortly after, If not, it happens at about 12:55)

Dagon13

Holyborn said:

holdenhamlet said:

scorpex-x said:

Here is the female lynn race (child like race) in bns.

Since they wear less clothes than Elin in tera do you really think Ncwest won't alter this before final release?  I bet they will.

http://s1049.photobucket.com/user/cotodaman/media/BNSCBT2/FeMaleLynClothes/Screenshot39795.png.html

Holy moly those are "worse" than Elins.  Wait until the internet gets a load of this!

TERA (a great game of it's time IMO) was bashed to hell and back for having Elins.  Let's see if B&S suffers the same fate.

Elins is what saved Tera. Without it they prob wouldnt have this suc6

Are those pre or post censoring?  I looked through a lot of the outfits and they were all pretty tasteful without looking like they were lazily censored.  I would actually consider playing this race based on those screenshots.

shalissar

tawess said:

Kiyoris said:

I love when people say "women in games need to be strong and empowering"

what the hell are these fruitcakes talking about??

they are pixels on a screen

how is that going to empower you?

you should probably go see the nearest shrink, before you hurt yourself

Nice underbridgedweller tactic there... I have no doubt you are smart enough to actually understand how things fit together... You just like to get a rise out of people. 

But if you feel honest confusion i´l be glad to fill you in... berry laden dessert or not... 

I would honestly like to know. With the cosmetic industry still raking in billions from selling snake oil to aging women, I wonder what exactly is the purpose of trying to remove the sexualization of women from video games? is this like a baby steps kind of thing?

I am a woman, by the way and a big fan of Hyung-Tae Kim's art for its greatly exaggerated proportions and amazing color schemes. I honestly don't have a problem with them changing the underwear at the start or altering quests (who cares, it's mindless and meaningless, not like it was some important story arc crucial to your character's place in the world) but I would absolutely hate to see this artist's vision become distorted a la China's "censorship". And yes I consider nudity and cleavage to be a part of his artistic vision.

JJ82

I think I will just keep playing the Japanese version. Not for the skin, but because I do not support censorship, Fascism or idiocy. If you don't support what they are doing, don't play this version. Speak with your wallet or don't complain.

JJ82

shalissar said:

tawess said:

Kiyoris said:

I love when people say "women in games need to be strong and empowering"

what the hell are these fruitcakes talking about??

they are pixels on a screen

how is that going to empower you?

you should probably go see the nearest shrink, before you hurt yourself

Nice underbridgedweller tactic there... I have no doubt you are smart enough to actually understand how things fit together... You just like to get a rise out of people. 

But if you feel honest confusion i´l be glad to fill you in... berry laden dessert or not... 

I would honestly like to know.

Do not ever try to make sense of 3rd wave feminism, youll go insane if you do. 1st wave feminist Dr Christina Sommers summed up the attack on video games best, it was something gender feminists (3rd wave) did to stay relevant by adding yet another made up way to be a victim. She did a 3 hour talk on the Joe Rogan Experience this last week, part of it is on gaming, a nice long conversation on how these SJWs are going to eat themselves because nothing the say stands up to basic scrutiny.

Horusra

JJ82 said:

I think I will just keep playing the Japanese version. Not for the skin, but because I do not support censorship, Fascism or idiocy. If you don't support what they are doing, don't play this version. Speak with your wallet or don't complain.

Rather speak with my wallet and not support any of this crap.

Talonsin

What will we Americans complain about next?

Personally I find the NA pic much hotter than the non-censored picture. 

tawess

shalissar said:

I would honestly like to know. With the cosmetic industry still raking in billions from selling snake oil to aging women, I wonder what exactly is the purpose of trying to remove the sexualization of women from video games? is this like a baby steps kind of thing?

I am a woman, by the way and a big fan of Hyung-Tae Kim's art for its greatly exaggerated proportions and amazing color schemes. I honestly don't have a problem with them changing the underwear at the start or altering quests (who cares, it's mindless and meaningless, not like it was some important story arc crucial to your character's place in the world) but I would absolutely hate to see this artist's vision become distorted a la China's "censorship". And yes I consider nudity and cleavage to be a part of his artistic vision.

Well... As i have had it explained it is mostly about trying to use a new angle, more and more children get in contact with videogames, so videogames becomes part of creating the norm. So if the image of women in games moves on from male eyecandy (that is what it mostly was... A way to sell something to a perceived male population by adhering to and reinforcing the masculinity norm.. Just look at most fantasy art from 80´s and 90´s ) and moves towards the sort of more balanced and less stereotypical image that we start to see in games today. Providing a wider field of role models for up and coming human beings. 

So yeah.. it is a babysteps kind of thing. 

Now for this very particular game... Honestly i do not mind... (beyond my on average annoyance with negative social norms) since as you mention there is a particular artist involved... It would be like making a alien movie but diffusing style of H R Giger. But on the other hand... Something marked as soft-core or being slapped with the M rating in the US would seriously crimp the sales... And the US phobia of sex is way older than modern feminism... So it is not all their fault either. 



So to sum it up. 

A: Gender is a useless social construct 
B: Females have been on the receiving end of a lot of shit due to it 
C: NCSoft cares more about bottom dollar than the feminism movement. But also likes to score free PR: 

JJ82 said:

Do not ever try to make sense of 3rd wave feminism, youll go insane if you do. 1st wave feminist 

--------

What if i told you that most of what you know regarding how society works... Is just a big old construct and is a result of mostly church laws, re population strategies, capitalism and good old fashion... Fear. 

But what do i know... 

jesteralways

What they should have removed from the game is that "lolicon" race, it is without any doubt in game just to please the pedophiles. instead they are censoring race name, costumes that are "too revealing".... idiots!!

shalissar

tawess said:

shalissar said:

I would honestly like to know. With the cosmetic industry still raking in billions from selling snake oil to aging women, I wonder what exactly is the purpose of trying to remove the sexualization of women from video games? is this like a baby steps kind of thing?

I am a woman, by the way and a big fan of Hyung-Tae Kim's art for its greatly exaggerated proportions and amazing color schemes. I honestly don't have a problem with them changing the underwear at the start or altering quests (who cares, it's mindless and meaningless, not like it was some important story arc crucial to your character's place in the world) but I would absolutely hate to see this artist's vision become distorted a la China's "censorship". And yes I consider nudity and cleavage to be a part of his artistic vision.

Well... As i have had it explained it is mostly about trying to use a new angle, more and more children get in contact with videogames, so videogames becomes part of creating the norm. So if the image of women in games moves on from male eyecandy (that is what it mostly was... A way to sell something to a perceived male population by adhering to and reinforcing the masculinity norm.. Just look at most fantasy art from 80´s and 90´s ) and moves towards the sort of more balanced and less stereotypical image that we start to see in games today. Providing a wider field of role models for up and coming human beings. 

So yeah.. it is a babysteps kind of thing.

I understand, thanks for the insight. I'm sure it works out but what do you do when these children grow up and discover pornography? It's probably the most damaging in its ubiquity and blatancy in representing women as meat puppets. I wouldn't be surprised if it completely undermines everything feminism works for in changing how women are viewed.

edit: maybe they'd be less likely to watch it if they aren't exposed to so much sexualization of women earlier?

Hariken

Not really surprised. And not to piss of the fanboys,but i don't think this game will have longevity in the U.S. Some of the things they do won't fly here with most people. Like the loot/upgrade system. The whole bidding on drops may work in Asia but it will be a negative here. So much fighting on the boards about this that they are locking threads now. I see a rush to check it out in January but after a few months they will be looking for players.

tawess

shalissar said:

I understand, thanks for the insight. I'm sure it works out but what do you do when these children grow up and discover pornography? It's probably the most damaging in its ubiquity and blatancy in representing women as meat puppets. I wouldn't be surprised if it completely undermines everything feminism works for in changing how women are viewed.

edit: maybe they'd be less likely to watch it if they aren't exposed to so much sexualization of women earlier?

Nah... Porn can be as healthy as anything when it comes to sending out signals. It is all about how it is made. But i think it is perhaps more a question of these new generations taking porn for what it is... A fantasy... Not a confirmation of a already established norm.  

All in all it is about establishing sound ideals and create individuals who see the norms of society for what they are... Nothing more than a bunch of suggestion. 

BigRambo

Heh, it's funny how most of you are writing that they are trying to appeal to the masses instead of the minority. The real question here is; Will Blade & Soul really going to attract that many people in the Western market?  No, not by a long shot. I could really care less if characters got their junk and boobs hanging freely. I just want a new MMO that stands out from out of the 200+ releases we've gotten in under 10 years. I'm still waiting for more Devs to create a MMO that looks a lot like Atlantica Online (Battle system wise) but P2P and no P2W cash shop. 

 Most of you are already implying that B&S will be a big hit in the West, let me spare you the future heart ache by saying No, B&S won't do anything spectacular to attract anyone's attention in the long run. It'll be that other "wannabe big shot" MMO that'll be forgotten 2-3 months after release.  I don't need to play the game to know that it has nothing good to offer, I've played well over 70 MMO's in under 5 years that looks pretty much the same as B&S.  

 BTW, hows Star Wars Battlefront going? I posted a few times that EA would of botched it. The in game video trailer LAGS, no campaign, 80$ for a incomplete game + 70$ season pass.  When you know the business as well as I, you don't need to try a game out to judge it. Just give me any new MMO releasing with a 5 minute REAL game play trailer and I'll tell you if it's worth it or not. 

 People really need to stop falling for hype, EA and NCSoft and others feed off hype to make millions if not billions on their crappy games.  Go to EA's Facebook page, EVERYONE wants the heads of EA's execs for screwing up Battlefront. But those same idiots crying about Battlefront will go buy the next "Big" EA title. So from where I stand, the only Devs / Pubs to trust right now when it comes to MMO's are Blizzard / Activision. 
If only falling off a 100 story building be the new hype, we'd lose a lot of these idiots screwing up our MMO experience.  

tawess

Well BigRambo tell that to NCSofts marketdepartment. =P 

Loke666

Quizzical said:

Looking at the pictures linked from the original post, I didn't even find it immediately obvious which was the "censored" version and which was the "uncensored" version, as the "censored" version shows a lot more skin.  "Censorship" doesn't seem like the right word there.

I tend to prefer armor that looks like it could plausibly be functional armor.  That doesn't necessarily mean plate mail; real soldiers don't wear that today, as it restricts your movement too much.  But going to war while nearly naked looks ridiculous.  If you want sentient characters wearing very little, keep them in towns and out of combat.

Well, the protection of a real plate armor makes it worth wearing in a battle. However it was not something people wore all the time so having something that are easier to move in makes sense for an adventurer.

As for wearing close to nothing there is some logic to it in hot places, rainforrest indians for example tend to have rather small clothes. In temperated world it only works for people with access to magic (who probably can keep warm in other ways) and none humans who make be evolved for colder climates than humans.

I am not sure why they bothered this revamp, both types of "clothes" seems pretty useless in the wilderness unless you adventure on a tropical beach. If they wanted to make the armors and clothes realistic it would be one thing but practically I see little difference and I doubt any feminist would be more (or less) offended by either style.

They should have added a few new realistic armors instead (while keeping the original ones) so the players could choose the style they prefer themselves. It would have been the same amount of work and far better for the players.

zaberfangx

Is this all about money really. With the Censorship the lower ESRB rating more target ads that can hit to sell the game in places that would it been to much for younger viewers.

scorpex-x

B&S was already a incredibly small niche title, all this tinkering will do is kill the desire for fans to play it and make that playerbase even smaller.

Dumb company employing an even dumber feminist to run it.

Iselin

scorpex-x said:

B&S was already a incredibly small niche title, all this tinkering will do is kill the desire for fans to play it and make that playerbase even smaller.

Dumb company employing an even dumber feminist to run it.

So... Ken and Barbie can still be dressed up as slutty as you'd like but Skipper's see-through panties have been toned down... and the loli race is still there... yeah those damn feminists are at it again.

Meanwhile back in Japan...

Sexually explicit Japan manga evades new laws on child pornography

Sovrath

scorpex-x said:

B&S was already a incredibly small niche title, all this tinkering will do is kill the desire for fans to play it and make that playerbase even smaller.

Dumb company employing an even dumber feminist to run it.

You are assuming all the "fans" care about changing some outfits.

MrMelGibson

holdenhamlet said:

Anyone that plays Blade and Soul is going to hell!

How does one go to a fictitious place?  Or is it a new mmo?

Yaevindusk

Sovrath said:

scorpex-x said:

B&S was already a incredibly small niche title, all this tinkering will do is kill the desire for fans to play it and make that playerbase even smaller.

Dumb company employing an even dumber feminist to run it.

You are assuming all the "fans" care about changing some outfits.

I'll probably make a different post about this, as it has come out just recently and this thread if fairly old.

But taken from reddit -- and who knows if this is true or not:

Censorship Related

• The localization team is deleting posts on the forums which criticize their decisions instead of forwarding the posts to CM's/Moderators.
• Quests are being altered to remove content they find personally offensive or not "welcoming" enough.
• Story/NPC dialogue being altered to turn the player into a strict hero archetype with no moral failings or ambiguity. Villains are now stereotypical cartoon-tier evil.
• Lingerie removed and turned into cash shop item. Replaced with regular bra and panties, default poses also changed. Picture
• Surnames are being erased by mashing them together with given names (example: Bruce Wayne becomes Brucewayne, Do Chun becomes Dochun) I consider this kind of cultural erasure to be censorship and it's also retarded as fuck.

Localization Related

• Memes have been added and in many cases it turns a situation meant to be taken seriously into a comical one. (side note: what's with social justice types adding memes into everything they write, translate or localize?)
• Story being dumbed down. Removal of foreshadowing is resulting in a confusing/inferior experience.
• Game lore is being altered or changed outright because they feel it doesn't make sense.
• NPC personalities changed or randomly swapped around with other NPC's for no discernible reason.
• Titles are replacing names entirely in some cases.

In my opinion, 90% of that -- if true -- is incredibly incompetent changes and makes me think no real research went into the so-called localization.  There was an interesting forum discussion regarding the surnames being combined as well and why they did such (in addition to how they even got their reasoning wrong).  Though my initial and uneducated reactions were that, they were spot on in thinking that surnames are taboo in North America.  Absolutely 100% on the money.

Nearly all of the Localization area is pretty dumb as well.  Eliminated story, changing character personalities, etc.  The game had established lore and anime that will become irrelevant and make fans confused for the sake of simplicity of story.  Though I'll just wait for official announcements or confirmation on the matter as a whole.

JDis25

Blade and Soul is "Ecchi", meaning it is not supposed to be pornographic, but is meant to be "suggestive". It is a style that pushes boundaries of what viewers may find acceptable to get people talking about it, as well as for others to feel they can express themselves on all levels without feeling persecuted for what appeals to them in particular.  It is not about objectifying but rather being completely honest about what the artist finds attractive and appealing.