MIDORA - "The Final Update: What really happened."

Tybost

Important note: 85% of the images / context posted has been broken over the years; and is difficult to catchup on now.

Highly suggest reading the bolded below and then skip ahead to the very final update: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/epicmindsinc/midora-0/posts/3623076

-

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/epicmindsinc/midora-0/posts/1463740
Ladies and gentlemen. Is your day bland? Introducing... Midora (a 2D action-adventure game) and the Developer behind it 'Epic Minds'.

I'm not a backer of this project, simply a bystander that has been enjoying things unfold.

• This is a story of a developer under the name 'Epic Minds' that brought a 2D action-adventure game to Kickstarter in June 2014, and succeeded in raising above his set goal of $73,470/$60,000. Also a story about an inexperienced developer that has a continued history of failure to meet backer expectations, and has repeatedly failed to release any news worthy updates to backers since June 2014. Causing backers to become increasingly skeptical of any real progress being made.

Why might you ask!?

Where to begin? Let us start from the beginning!

Midora is a 2D action-adventure game in development by 'Epic Minds' that managed to raise $73,470 from a total of 3,359 backers in June-2014. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/epicmindsinc/midora-0/

Everything was seemingly on track with updates leading into early February-2015.

March disappears without a development update, and then April comes with a new update bearing some unfortunate news.
 https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/epicmindsinc/midora-0/posts/1167729
 

Many who pledged towards the development of Midora were outraged at the reason they paused development. It was because they wanted to work on another smaller mobile game to scruff up some cash, to eventually continue production on Midora. This was the first misstep Epic Minds made as it basically said they used up the raised $73,470 funds since the crowdfunding ended in June-2014 and other things.




Epic Minds realized they made a mistake as most backers expressed extreme disappointment, and some were outraged to the point of wanting to file a lawsuit, calling them scammers, and many other things.

Only a mere 3 days later they updated with a new update to calm the waters...



They were happy to hear the news, but backers were skeptical of the project at this point. It raised many more questions and concerns about the ongoing development, and was the first misstep the Midora developers made.

April 22nd, 2015 - Mistakes were made and an apology update was sent out a week later https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/epicmindsinc/midora-0/posts/1208299



Backers accepted his apology.



May 4th 2015 - Comes and the development is seemingly back on track, and some development progress was shown which made backers happy. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/epicmindsinc/midora-0/posts/1220546

Tybost

June 13th 2015 - Developers over at Epic Minds called upon their backers to help them get greenlit. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/epicmindsinc/midora-0/posts/126323




July 21st, 2015 - After a month of silence a new update was released onto kickstarter, announcing that the progress on Midora had slowed down.



You can find the link to the post and comments here: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/epicmindsinc/midora-0/posts/1300518

• This is of course months of little to no noticeable progress being posted, backers were starved for real content updates.
• Keep in mind at this point it has already been a year with no gameplay footage, and only some scraps of actual development were posted throughout the year.

August 27th, 2015 - Another month has passed and no content news worthy post had been made  https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/epicmindsinc/midora-0/posts/1336252



Backers are not pleased with the update... probably hoping to hear something newsworthy.




Sept 2nd, 2015 - https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/epicmindsinc/midora-0/posts/1342242 - An update was released which showed off some artwork, and a video showing off how backer rewards were made:


"We are still working on finding that precious publisher deal that we desperately need." Backers were actually pleased with this update, but then... came the next update!

[WARNING, WARNING, YOU ARE ENTERING THE MEAT AND BEANS OF THE THREAD]

This is a big one! [EXPLOSIVE CHARGES SET]

Mother of god are you still reading this thread? well guess what! You've made it to the present day-ISH.

• You can probably guess that backers at this point aren't too happy with 'Epic Minds' and the lackluster updates made throughout the year.

October 5th, 2015 - https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/epicmindsinc/midora-0/posts/1372414 - The developer of Midora [Epic Minds] made a new update telling backers that the search for a publisher failed.

Although they are still seeking a publisher instead of working on the game.



Epic Minds claims they only received around $55,000, instead of the goal which hit $73,000, and is basically spent and gone.

Oh... they also need another $120,000 and $150,000 to complete the game... *Cough*



Backers are NOT happy with what the Midora developer at this point, and is the breaking point of the community of Midora.



You could very well say the Community/PR work has been handled incredibly poorly. This was the point backers threw their hands up in the air and had enough.

They really need to hire someone else to make the update announcements!
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Here is the link again to the most recent post made on kickstarter with many more comments on the Oct. 5th update [Good Read]  https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/epicmindsinc/midora-0/posts/1372414?page=2#comments

Tybost

November 2, 2015 - A user then posted onto the comments section saying someone offered help to complete Midora



Nintendonuggets apparently sent 'Epic Minds' an offer to help them with the completion of the game. http://nintendonuggets.com/we-offered-to-finish-midora-but-epic-minds-blew-us-off/




Below's note is likely the spark which led 'Epic Minds' Epicmhyre a developer on Midora to respond to Nintendonuggets article and title "We offered to finish midora but epic minds blew us off"


November 4th - The article was then responded to by the developer of Midora 'Epic Minds' and rejected. Read the full reply from the developer here firing back at their offer/article [Continued]- http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1snps89



Meanwhile... backers in the comments section: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/epicmindsinc/midora-0/comments



Nintendonuggets responds to Epic Minds response... heating things up http://nintendonuggets.com/response-to-epic-minds-the-guy-who-stole-73k-on-kickstarter/



Epic Minds responds back to the second article [Continued] - http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1snq3ku


Poor backers but this  this truly is comedy gold! - Had to share it

Meanwhile the battle has been taken to twitter: https://twitter.com/EpicMhyre



Unfortunately, the original Midora/Nintendonuggets story has stopped short of an interesting saga and ended disappointingly with a ceasefire.



However, since the creation of this thread [Nov, 11th] more has happened!

November 17th  - Backers were promised a livestream which was to happen a few days later. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/epicmindsinc/midora-0/posts/1417782



...which was then delayed a couple of days later to November 27th on Friday @noon. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/epicmindsinc/midora-0/posts/1422741

Backers were not pleased, and very few were forgiving, even though the developer apparently lives near Paris. It did however buy some time, though this does not change the fact that backers are done with fruitless updates, and displeased with the broken promises.



Additionally on the second page the developer himself found this thread, and commented himself confirming the time/schedule.


I replied and said the thread was not created to the bash Epic Minds and Midora, (to make sure he knows im not out to get em) But to instead expose the story that has unfolded thus far!He replied again and gave the official date for the Q/A/Build!

12/17/2015 - 26-Days Later after the livestream!

Great Scott! - It would seem we time-traveled into the future Marty! (Using a Tardis!?)

I have come back here to update the story so far!

It's important to note: that the livestream did indeed happen, and over sixty backers showed up. Epic Minds was able to successfully deliver a much needed cushion to buy some time as they seek a publisher. They talked out of a perilous situation, and offered an honest response to the mounting concerns. A playable alpha build was also released which could be described as 'broken' and 'lackluster' which was also restricted to windows PC.

Linux & Mac - You were spared!

Unfortunately, for reasons listed in this thread by the developers themselves [PG.03] the livestream was pulled down from twitch's archive for buggy audio, and the playable build was also pulled down because it was crashing on startup. What does this mean for backers who missed the stream, or the chance to play the alpha build? Too Bad!

• This continues to be a story about a developer who has been releasing lackluster updates, and has been failing to meet backer expectations.

• They are likely still looking to find a publisher, which is sad because they have little hope of finding one. Legend says they are still seeking out a publisher in 2020!

holdenhamlet

Good read.  These new kickstarter projects are full of drama.

It seems to me that they should have followed the Star Citizen model.  Instead of stopping after achieving their goal, just continue on raising money by selling virtual goods in game.

It seems as soon as a company stops campaigning for money, people expect a product.  But until then it seems people don't mind a lack of progress as long as they're continuing to be sold something.

Wizardry

There is NOTHING confusing to me when comes to KS's or crowd funding of any kind.IMO people are brain dead clueless and have no right at all for blaming someone else for their stupidity.

You are NOT investing,you will NEVER own any part of these developers studios/games,you have absolutely no say one way or the other.There is no legal document to support any of your money,you are simply FOOLISHLY throwing it into the wind,so imo people that do this deserve everything they get.

If some waking up to Folger's is still needed i will spell it out...99% of the people you meet in this world are either completely untrustworthy or can be trusted with very little.There are many people who would fail their best friend or family member,so imagine how they would treat you are your money.I think a LOT of people just need to wake up to reality.

As to that game,it looked like a cartoon comic pile of junk to me,if you feel comfortable with giving money to a game that looks like it was made for the Sega genesis,then go right ahead but don't come crying later or acting all surprised when things go south.

Sits patiently waiting with his popcorn box while Star Citizen fans break open their wallets once again.

Erinak1

To be honest, I hadn't heard of any of the people in these posts before this post so for some other company i haven't heard of to say that kickstarter is going downhill solely because of them is laughable. There have been way higher profile people doing that. The problem isn't people losing faith in kickstarter, plenty of people still use Kickstarter, the problem is people are losing blind faith and THAT. IS. GREAT. 

Regardless it was fun to read and forget!

waynejr2

Wizardry said:

There is NOTHING confusing to me when comes to KS's or crowd funding of any kind.IMO people are brain dead clueless and have no right at all for blaming someone else for their stupidity.

You are NOT investing,you will NEVER own any part of these developers studios/games,you have absolutely no say one way or the other.There is no legal document to support any of your money,you are simply FOOLISHLY throwing it into the wind,so imo people that do this deserve everything they get.

If some waking up to Folger's is still needed i will spell it out...99% of the people you meet in this world are either completely untrustworthy or can be trusted with very little.There are many people who would fail their best friend or family member,so imagine how they would treat you are your money.I think a LOT of people just need to wake up to reality.

As to that game,it looked like a cartoon comic pile of junk to me,if you feel comfortable with giving money to a game that looks like it was made for the Sega genesis,then go right ahead but don't come crying later or acting all surprised when things go south.

Sits patiently waiting with his popcorn box while Star Citizen fans break open their wallets once again.

Exactly.  You know if this was a real investment you would negotiate for a software escrow just in case the game went under or perhaps off in a way different direction.  KS is not an investment.

tawess

to be fair.. i would have laughed ninnuggets out fo the building too... They might be the DaVinci of game makers but they seem to lack... How should i say it... Any semblance of realityattachment. 

LynxJSA

"Mother of god are you still reading this thread? well guess what! You've made it to the present day-ISH. "

I LOL'd when I got to that point. :awesome: 

Tybost

An update on Midora: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/epicmindsinc/midora-0/posts/1417782
Read more above + new backer comments!



Later a tweet was made and the kickstarter post was updated to provide the following:

Here are some backer comment highlights since the update was made




"We are still unsure if we will stream this coming Friday or Saturday."
Here is the twitch stream: http://www.twitch.tv/midoragame
"We will update you on the real date and time here and on facebook/twitter when we know."
Here is their twitter: https://twitter.com/MidoraGame/

Trying to find out if the livestream Q&A already happened or if it will be happening later tonight 11/21/2015. It has been 4-days since the update was made Nov. 17th - Some comments may have discouraged the developers of Midora to host a livestream.




[Ceasefire post has been moved up top]

I did a pretty good job with the first post bringing people up to date. I will be updating the main post title to something a little more appropriate in the near future. Since we're going beyond the original short lived guerrilla fight story between Midora & Nintendonuggets.

Slapshot1188

Sounds like something between the dual fiascoes of Greedmonger and Pathfinder Online.  Wish I had heard of this months ago!

Games like this are pure gold for the popcorn crowd.

Tybost

Slapshot1188 said:

Sounds like something between the dual fiascoes of Greedmonger and Pathfinder Online.  Wish I had heard of this months ago!

Games like this are pure gold for the popcorn crowd.

This is certainly hitting a boiling point, and it only seems to get better and better. I can see it heading in the same direction as Greedmonger. However right now Epic Minds Midora still has a chance to fly out of the mud. Especially if they deliver a playable alpha to backers which is apparently right around the corner.

I have noticed quite a few comments deleted, and some of my screen-caps above have set them in stone. I will be highlighting some more new comments below. However before that an update regarding the stream which was suppose to happen yesterday, or today.

One user has been sitting in the stream channel since the update /Salute


Backer reaction to the no-show stream

--Highlighting some more comments-- Backers are pulling support and calling for action

Tybost

Regarding the Livestream (via Facebook) Delayed til Monday!


Only FB has been updated regarding the postponed status for now.

EDIT: Demo will be playable for EVERYONE including non-backers (Public) https://www.facebook.com/MidoraGame/

Well then... looking forward to Monday!

See you then!

Slapshot1188

Wow.  Sounds more and more like Greedmonger with every post.  They missed their Stream and couldn't tell anybody for personal reasons?  Sounds like when the Greedmonger dev missed his stream because he fell asleep with a headache! 

Please record this if it happens... the Greedmonger stream was EPIC as they went from "All is well" to, yeah this is an embarrassing piece of shit over the course of the stream and eventually shut it down the next day.

I have to go find that steam video.  It remains my finest work to date.

Tybost

Haha. We need the guy who bestowed the title "Lumpyman" to go in and ask some questions on the livestream. Small update this morning: Official Postponement of the livestream https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/epicmindsinc/midora-0/posts/1422741

Here is a comment highlight post from the new update (which I agree with 100%)



Talk about god awful horribad Community/PR: To say your next update would have a build of the game available and ready to play in the next kickstarter update. They finally release an update a month later only to say the livestream and build will be coming in a couple of days, only to eventually postpone it!



Imagine if they were smart and decided to wait until they were ready (Monday) and then post an update on kickstarter, having the name as (Playable Build: Avaliable Now) Instead of Upcoming Livestream +Q/A and have the playable build available that same day, with a livestream around the corner.



However, it would seem the developer who is suppose to stream, lives in Paris and not to far away from last weeks attacks.



I will of course change/remove con-artist from the title of the thread, and replace it with something more appropriate like stupid and inexperienced or something around those lines. Assuming the playable build they release to the public in the coming days is an actual game demo. It will speak far louder than any words they could say at this point.



Here is the twitch link for Monday: http://www.twitch.tv/midoragame


Although the message given in the final sentence has me concerned, since they like to post the most important parts at the end. Talk about shit Community/PR~ The playable build will be the saving grace this coming Monday, and will determine the fate of Epic Minds.

We'll see exactly where the story goes this Monday... to be continued!

---New Comment Highlights---

Lightning Fast Response:

Later in the day... couple more comment highlights

Slapshot1188

Tybost said:

Haha. We need the guy who bestowed the title "Lumpyman" to go in and ask some questions on the livestream.

LOL.  Let me know the date/times and I'll see if I can pop in.

Octagon7711

This is something.  I hope things get worked out.  Delay after delay after delay after...

Tybost

Today is a very special day. A livestream should be happening which will determine the fate of Midora and Epic Minds credibility.

In the meantime, let us sit back and take a moment to think about how things could turn out for Midora and Epic Minds future as a game developer.

How will things turn out today for them?

• Option A: Epic Minds and Midora will succeed in delivering something 'Epic' to backers. They have promised access to a (Public) demo build which is huge. It will be their saving grace, and they will rise from the ashes.
  

• Option B: Frieza from Dragon Ball Z Blows up Planet Midora and Epic Minds credibility with it!
  

Somehow he doesn't seem to be all too evil this time around.


Here are the links to follow today if you are interested! (Keep an eye out)
http://www.twitch.tv/midoragame

Be sure to check in on twitter which they might post the link to the Q/A twitch stream
https://twitter.com/MidoraGame/
or
https://www.facebook.com/MidoraGame/

11:31 AM

Monday, November 23, 2015 (GMT+1)

Time in Paris, France

Also if you have any questions, you will be able to ask them via: Twitter/Facebook/Twitch/PM and can send them in right now to potentially be answered!

Slapshot1188

What time?

ArChWind

perfect fraud

(Wonders when people will wise up.)

Tybost

Slapshot1188 said:

What time?

No specific time was announced. "The current plan is to stream on Monday, however we have a few calls with interested companies in the morning so a stream may or may not happen depending on how long it takes". I highly doubt they will delay any further unless they are stupid, especially when backers are beginning to truly turn on them at this point. Epic Minds better get gud, and get gud fast with the community! Winter is coming! ...and maybe frieza



I doubt the livestream will show failure as the Greed Monger livestream. Potential chance to watch them fail live and display their stupidity. Chance of bouncing back into positive community light. Anyway, you want to be here for what comes after, which is the playable demo. If you miss the stream they might post it onTwitch and Youtube afterwards. Midora has not seen any newsworthy update for a very long time. I will of course update the thread and warn everyone in advance when (if) the livestream goes live. (If im up) lol~



They are one step away from becoming the next Greedmonger... what will happen, which path will they end walking on... im always rooting for ones success deep down inside.



BUT TO BE HONEST WITH MYSELF....OHHHH!! ITS BECOMING TOO DIFFICULT TO HIDE MY #OVERHYPED FEELINGS TOWARDS THE IMPENDING DOOM... OR SUCCESS OF MIDORA! PLEASE...

DELAY! DELAY! GIVE ME MORE... FEED ME! OHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!.. MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!

Haha... but in all seriousness. I truly really feel for the backers here. These guys @Epic Minds have the worst Community/PR I've ever seen. Need a break and ensure I have popcorn ready for either bad news or good, either way it will be a good good day even if the stream doesn't happen.  #Sanity-restoring #4Hour-Cooldown

CrazKanuk

Wow, for someone is apparently isn't a backer of this project, you certainly have taken an interest in advocating for the backers of the project. This could, possibly, be one of the longest posts ever. 

Herase

Looks shady, but the feeling I get from this is they're not very committed to the project.

The attitude feels like something me and mates would have, start putting ideas of our game together for a week, then stopping and doing whatever, then coming back a week or two later and doing a bit more, but never giving it our full attention and time.

Feel this is the more likely case, but could be a straight up con  

Tybost

CrazKanuk said:

Wow, for someone is apparently isn't a backer of this project, you certainly have taken an interest in advocating for the backers of the project. This could, possibly, be one of the longest posts ever. 

Haha. I literally have nothing better to do in my morning ;( sipping coffee and reading exciting updates!

Some retaliation is going on too just now!



He's replying to the developer that made a post attacking another user for apparently 'Being that Guy" and other things. [His message posted again in spoiler]

Aim to please.

Hopefully im not overdoing it! More to come... will quiet down until something bigger happens. ;0 or unless anyone has any questions regarding everything going on.

Hopefully my entertainment is also some of your entertainment too!

---UPDATE--- MIDORA DEVELOPER IS INSIDE OF THE TWITCH CHANNEL! 2:57 PM in Paris! http://www.twitch.tv/midoragame

Could be a sign of things starting soon!

Pratt2112

Wizardry said:

There is NOTHING confusing to me when comes to KS's or crowd funding of any kind.IMO people are brain dead clueless and have no right at all for blaming someone else for their stupidity.

You are NOT investing,you will NEVER own any part of these developers studios/games,you have absolutely no say one way or the other.There is no legal document to support any of your money,you are simply FOOLISHLY throwing it into the wind,so imo people that do this deserve everything they get.

If some waking up to Folger's is still needed i will spell it out...99% of the people you meet in this world are either completely untrustworthy or can be trusted with very little.There are many people who would fail their best friend or family member,so imagine how they would treat you are your money.I think a LOT of people just need to wake up to reality.

As to that game,it looked like a cartoon comic pile of junk to me,if you feel comfortable with giving money to a game that looks like it was made for the Sega genesis,then go right ahead but don't come crying later or acting all surprised when things go south.

Sits patiently waiting with his popcorn box while Star Citizen fans break open their wallets once again.

Well, you're clearly a highly cynical person - your post makes that much clear.

Regardless, I'm happy to report that every Kickstarter I've backed has completed and released their respective product, with only one experiencing a hiccup that required them to split it up into smaller "chapters", rather than one big game (which they explained, and followed through on). I've backed 2 game developers, and 2 bands. All 4 have delivered, and in satisfactory fashion.

Are there projects/products that fail? Yep. However, there are also many, many that succeed. And it's used for *far* more than games.

Thing is, as usual, people amplify the bad news, while burying the good news. So, all we ever hear about is the projects that fail, which gives people - like yourself - the impression that crowd-funding is some con job or something.

At the end of the day, I don't think it's news to anyone at this point that investing in a crowd-funded projects is a risk. People look at the project, if it looks interesting and promising to them, then they may choose to back it. If not, they can back away and wait for another that feels better to them. 

Your remarks are not only highly misleading, they're also superfluous. Your post seems more like a personal rant for your own edification.

Tybost

STREAM IS HAPPENING IN A COUPLE OF HOURS! TWITCH TITLE UPDATED: http://www.twitch.tv/midoragame

Edit: Livestream has been delayed until Friday, 27th.