TL;DR: People just want their gear and will do whatever they have to in order to get it.
What do you expect? Guilds are just random people thrown together because of the need to raid. Sure, true friendship is possible .. but i wouldn't bet on it.
They don't even tell you their true identity most of the time.
If you expect everything being handed to you as soon as you join a guild and dont have to help out then It's you not the guild that is a problem. I hate freeloaders. If you really want to be part of a guild, you only need to do 2 things. 1: Be social in the guild, log into TS/vent be active in that or just use the chat, dont stay quite. 2: Help others in the guild when they asking for assistance.
If you manage to do 1 and 2 then everything will fall in place.
Thanks, but that advise made sense 12-13 years ago.
There are people in my guilds that are just like me. Looking to do group content. I help them. I enjoy helping others obtain whatever it is they are trying to accomplish.
However, when there are 6 of us standing around , grouped up, begging for 2 more to help us, nobody responds. Not even when offered in-game money.
Myself and others are active and do what we can, but at what point do you feel like an idiot begging for help? I have a little more self-respect than that.
The person's answer? "you're joining a guild, it's not a life choice ..."
The thing is everything you do is a "life choice". How you spend your time, who you spend it with.
He does not mean that literally. He just meant that it is not that important. You can always quit if you don't like the people.
And we are only talking about guilds in games ... people don't even stick to games. Now personally i don't bother with guilds, but if you do, it is quite easy to just join multiple and quit (or just ignore) the ones you do not like.
yeah but it's still a "life choice". At least in the context of my video gaming hobby.
Why should I join just any guild only to be supremely annoyed and then leave. Maybe even leaving bad blood in the process as "some people" take that very personally. And he already gave me the info I needed; I asked for places where I could learn about his guild and instead of giving them to me, he gave me a "quip".
That tells me everything I need right there.
My whole life is about mitigating nonsense, stress, bad decisions. I concentrate on things that I believe will be fun, fulfilling and make my life better.
I pretty much follow the advice that a teacher gave me years ago: "say no to the things you don't want so you can say yes to the things you do want".
And I would much prefer to stick with a guild I find fulfilling or at least has good people. I've been gaming with a small group since Lineage 2 so it works.
Then again Nariusseldon, you and I see games and gaming from very different places.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
It's been that way for a long time. If you get lucky you might stumble on a good guild that is the exception, but most are the rule.
There is the 'A' team and the 'B' team for raids and dungeons. A team is set up by the guild leader, his personal friends, and a couple good outsiders recruited to fill the slot to make runs ezmode farmable. A team gets first run with fillers and B team getting second run. Everyone else can is there can go do sod all.
No one from A or B is going to blow locks for the rest of the guild. Everyone apologizing for that is already on the A or B team and is under some delusion that if you put in enough time supporting the system you'll get your turn as well. That's a lie.
The last time I did this was in Rift. I was an A team member of a small raiding guild with big aspirations, but the guild leader was weak. After about a year larger raid guilds in the alliance siphoned off the rest of the a-list members. The entire time the poor suckers at the bottom just got used.
TL;DR: People just want their gear and will do whatever they have to in order to get it.
That describes what I see.
But that's not all. Everyone replying thinks I'm anti-social and spamming for help. It's not like that.
For example, there is and event going on. Some of this event requires a group. Us "outsiders", aka unknown cannon fodder, want to do event stuff. The "core" group doesn't want to help because they don't feel like the event is as important than farming tier gear for their 7th or 8th alt.
I care about content, not gear. My main will never be geared. By the time I get "geared" it's outdated and under-leveled anyways by patches or expansions. So I don't waste my time with it.
I wish people didn't draw conclusions. Makes me wonder why they are so defensive.
TL;DR: People just want their gear and will do whatever they have to in order to get it.
What do you expect? Guilds are just random people thrown together because of the need to raid. Sure, true friendship is possible .. but i wouldn't bet on it.
They don't even tell you their true identity most of the time.
Who cares about "true identity" in the context of video games? Whether i have a job, am called John or Will or i'm male/female, whats the point? Either you enjoy playing with someone, or you don't. Your "true identitiy" is how you behave while playing and in voice chat, if using any. Or what you post in the game and/or guild forum.
Now if you play long enough together, you may feel comfortable telling the other guy something about yourself, but thats a result of playing together, not a requirement for doing so. Actually, the more "real life" (as if the time spent gaming wouldn't be real) comes into play, the more likely all those issues with preferential treatment etc. crop up.
I'll wait to the day's end when the moon is high And then I'll rise with the tide with a lust for life, I'll Amass an army, and we'll harness a horde And then we'll limp across the land until we stand at the shore
Weird idea and I know its probably CRAZY to even consider it but....how about you and the other people that feel the same as you just.....i dont know....leave the guild and make one that follows the type of things you want? OH MAN, MY HEAD IS GOING TO EXPLODE NOW!
Guilds dont suck, people complaining about guilds are the ones that suck. If you can't find one, make your own, simple.
Weird idea and I know its probably CRAZY to even consider it but....how about you and the other people that feel the same as you just.....i dont know....leave the guild and make one that follows the type of things you want? OH MAN, MY HEAD IS GOING TO EXPLODE NOW!
Guilds dont suck, people complaining about guilds are the ones that suck. If you can't find one, make your own, simple.
I thought about that. Then we can be just like the people we left. Brilliant!
I'll tell you why I don't do that. Because I don't feel the need to be "in-charge", like others need to be. Just like I don't think telling people I meet that I'm a GM in a video game like that is important and should be on my resume or something. People like that don't impress me.
Guilds dont suck there are just more Suck Guilds , for every good guild out there you need to wade thru a cesspool of 20 suck guilds , was easier to find good guilds 15 years ago even 10 years ago ..
Weird idea and I know its probably CRAZY to even consider it but....how about you and the other people that feel the same as you just.....i dont know....leave the guild and make one that follows the type of things you want? OH MAN, MY HEAD IS GOING TO EXPLODE NOW!
Guilds dont suck, people complaining about guilds are the ones that suck. If you can't find one, make your own, simple.
I thought about that. Then we can be just like the people we left. Brilliant!
I'll tell you why I don't do that. Because I don't feel the need to be "in-charge", like others need to be. Just like I don't think telling people I meet that I'm a GM in a video game like that is important and should be on my resume or something. People like that don't impress me.
You don't have to be in charge. it could just be a guild of like minded people and when one person wants to do something they let people know. You get together, you do stuff and keep it light.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
So what's the "number" in today's mmorpg guild group that considers a person a full member? Back in the FFXI days 2 week 'trial' was pretty common before someone was considered a member of a linkshell (guild).
To counter point, in many games guilds are usually just used for the buffs. Not necessarily the grouping factor.
2 week trial? In FFXI? That couldn't have been an endgame LS/guild. My guild had a 6 month trial with applications out the door.
Unfortunately that sort of system no longer works due to the ridiculous amounts of options players have today. Not to mention the ease of leveling coupled with the ability to server hop without much issue.
The other issue which has also been mentioned already is that there are simply way too many guilds these days. Everyone thinks they can run their own today and end up taking one or two good players away from what could potentially be better guilds. This scatters all the good players which inevitable causes guilds to slowly die as those players find each other.
"If you're not recruiting, you're dying" has never been more true than in todays guild climate.
If you are not apart of the 5-6 "cool" kid core group of a guild, don't ever expect any help with group content, tier gear, quest help, etc.
What you CAN expect is doing what THEY want the rest of you to do, like farming tier gear, killing a world boss for a rare drop, etc etc.
Very tired of being told that not all guilds are like that. Yes, they are. I guild hop a lot to find this magical guild in many MMOs and this is all the same.
Tired of getting gear, achievements, and content done for the cool group. Tired of nobody responding to calls for help from other guildmates not in the cool group.
Oh and be sure to be online during raid times in case they need to fill a spot. You won't get anything, but you must help cool kid #4 farm gear for his 7th alt, while you're wearing trash.
Is this common for any of you these days?
I've actually run into this less in the last few years than I did back in the day.
Yeah, if you joined a well establish guild where people have known each other for years and are very deep into current content you can expect to have a cool kids club.
Look for newer guilds or ones that haven't started raiding yet or only recently started. If they're burnishing their raid credentials in their trade chat advertisement it's probably not the guild for you.
You don't have to be in charge. it could just be a guild of like minded people and when one person wants to do something they let people know. You get together, you do stuff and keep it light.
You're right.
I figured that out a few months into AoC release. We were all made to raid with the GM to get him raid tokens to gear up and nobody else was allowed to loot. I felt like I was working and not playing games. I thought about making my own guild, maybe doing the same thing since people think this is acceptable.
But, could just find like minded people and be normal. Like what you are suggesting. I knew this years ago. But you know, if you're not in charge, you'll never get what you want these days.
This thread isn't about raids or gear. It's about the ability to form a holy trinity group of 4, to kill a rare world boss for an achievement or loot drop. Or a once a year event during the week.
This is about 40 people online and somebody asks for 10 minutes of help and only a few of us answer the call.
Or watching a new guy in the guild ask in chat if we're doing anything thing and cringing. Why? because the core group replies in chat "RAID TIMES ARE 4, 6, AND 8. THE RAID WE RUN IS IN MOTD.
I sent a tell to that guy and said, what they are telling you is no, you will do what they want you to do and the times they say to do it. His reply? "Damn, what was that? If I would have known, I would never had asked." I said, I know, when I saw you ask in guild chat, I thought to myself, prepare your anus, bro.
You see, if somebody suggests to do something outside raid times and destinations, all hell breaks loose. They feel that you are taking people away from them in case they need someone to fill a spot.
Weird idea and I know its probably CRAZY to even consider it but....how about you and the other people that feel the same as you just.....i dont know....leave the guild and make one that follows the type of things you want? OH MAN, MY HEAD IS GOING TO EXPLODE NOW!
Guilds dont suck, people complaining about guilds are the ones that suck. If you can't find one, make your own, simple.
I thought about that. Then we can be just like the people we left. Brilliant!
I'll tell you why I don't do that. Because I don't feel the need to be "in-charge", like others need to be. Just like I don't think telling people I meet that I'm a GM in a video game like that is important and should be on my resume or something. People like that don't impress me.
How does making a guild that does the things you want to do or has the same goals as you, equal being the same as the guild you're in? I'm sure you thought long and hard when you compiled that sentence. As was mentioned before, YOU dont have to run anything. However, you can suggest the idea to the group of people that you say you are around that feel the same and one of them can run it. Then you just join and get the guild you want. There's no point in complaining about something while still being engaged in it hoping it'll change. You either stay cause you like it, or leave cause you dont. People form guilds because they have their interest in mind and either recruit people with similar interests or need the numbers for tax. A guild in itself is neither evil or righteous, its all about how you use it.
How does making a guild that does the things you want to do or has the same goals as you, equal being the same as the guild you're in? I'm sure you thought long and hard when you compiled that sentence. As was mentioned before, YOU dont have to run anything. However, you can suggest the idea to the group of people that you say you are around that feel the same and one of them can run it. Then you just join and get the guild you want. There's no point in complaining about something while still being engaged in it hoping it'll change. You either stay cause you like it, or leave cause you dont. People form guilds because they have their interest in mind and either recruit people with similar interests or need the numbers for tax. A guild in itself is neither evil or righteous, its all about how you use it.
I'm not disagreeing with you at all. People love doing that stuff. I don't. I just want to log in and play when I can. I want to be able to achieve something (game related), each login session.
How does making a guild that does the things you want to do or has the same goals as you, equal being the same as the guild you're in? I'm sure you thought long and hard when you compiled that sentence. As was mentioned before, YOU dont have to run anything. However, you can suggest the idea to the group of people that you say you are around that feel the same and one of them can run it. Then you just join and get the guild you want. There's no point in complaining about something while still being engaged in it hoping it'll change. You either stay cause you like it, or leave cause you dont. People form guilds because they have their interest in mind and either recruit people with similar interests or need the numbers for tax. A guild in itself is neither evil or righteous, its all about how you use it.
I'm not disagreeing with you at all. People love doing that stuff. I don't. I just want to log in and play when I can. I want to be able to achieve something (game related), each login session.
Understandable, but honestly being here and talking about it changes nothing. You dont have to be a leader to spark change. Bringing up the idea is good enough. If people share your thoughts, then maybe one of them will lead and you join. Or you all leave together to find a new guild.
The best guilds are the ones where someone sends you a whisper asking if you would be interested in joining. And to see if your a good fit put you are put on a two week trial to see if you are a good fit and you get to see if you like the guild. Today you just get spam invites without even a whisper to talk. This is the way it is in mmo's today so good luck finding a good guild. Your almost better off solo iin these new mmo's.
How does making a guild that does the things you want to do or has the same goals as you, equal being the same as the guild you're in? I'm sure you thought long and hard when you compiled that sentence. As was mentioned before, YOU dont have to run anything. However, you can suggest the idea to the group of people that you say you are around that feel the same and one of them can run it. Then you just join and get the guild you want. There's no point in complaining about something while still being engaged in it hoping it'll change. You either stay cause you like it, or leave cause you dont. People form guilds because they have their interest in mind and either recruit people with similar interests or need the numbers for tax. A guild in itself is neither evil or righteous, its all about how you use it.
I'm not disagreeing with you at all. People love doing that stuff. I don't. I just want to log in and play when I can. I want to be able to achieve something (game related), each login session.
Understandable, but honestly being here and talking about it changes nothing. You dont have to be a leader to spark change. Bringing up the idea is good enough. If people share your thoughts, then maybe one of them will lead and you join. Or you all leave together to find a new guild.
I just needed to vent. Had guildmates come help me 2 nights ago, they looted everything and I got nothing and then they left. Said they will help me again later. So later comes around. One doesn't reply. Ones tells me they have what they need and doesn't want to do it anymore, and the other says that they need to clean their inventory. Keep in mind, this is a 5 minute fight for a open world mob that is event related. I guess I'll get a chance next year....
If you are not apart of the 5-6 "cool" kid core group of a guild, don't ever expect any help with group content, tier gear, quest help, etc.
What you CAN expect is doing what THEY want the rest of you to do, like farming tier gear, killing a world boss for a rare drop, etc etc.
Very tired of being told that not all guilds are like that. Yes, they are. I guild hop a lot to find this magical guild in many MMOs and this is all the same.
Tired of getting gear, achievements, and content done for the cool group. Tired of nobody responding to calls for help from other guildmates not in the cool group.
Oh and be sure to be online during raid times in case they need to fill a spot. You won't get anything, but you must help cool kid #4 farm gear for his 7th alt, while you're wearing trash.
Is this common for any of you these days?
While this happens often and frequently, it's also quite easy (it doesn't take hours n hours) to see if a guild is like this.
Best trick is to play a good while solo, learn some mechanics on your own and refuse all invites for awhile, do some forums searching in the guild section then do the guild hopping till you find a home you like.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
While this happens often and frequently, it's also quite easy (it doesn't take hours n hours) to see if a guild is like this.
Best trick is to play a good while solo, learn some mechanics on your own and refuse all invites for awhile, do some forums searching in the guild section then do the guild hopping till you find a home you like.
That's actually how I get in guilds 90% of the time.
I'll be in a PUG doing well and somebody from a progression guild is like dude, why are you not in a guild? Then I see his guild tag and think, "oh, this is one of the big boys that clears endgame content. I want to do that." That's how I usually end up in a guild.
I ran a guild for 16 years , it was great but then people guld hop alot, after helping and using the guild....This is why alot of the good guilds retired they get tired of the users...... so you only have your self to blame for the guild hopping and bad guilds today...It was never this way 5 years ago as much , 10 not at all.. People today are all about them selves, so your fault, not the guilds.. Yes there are bad ones, but people screw the good ones over, we always ran guild stuff every day... and people still leave whine... I had people stay for 16 years of course... but those others do ruin it.
If you expect everything being handed to you as soon as you join a guild and dont have to help out then It's you not the guild that is a problem. I hate freeloaders. If you really want to be part of a guild, you only need to do 2 things. 1: Be social in the guild, log into TS/vent be active in that or just use the chat, dont stay quite. 2: Help others in the guild when they asking for assistance.
If you manage to do 1 and 2 then everything will fall in place.
This.... people think we would just hold there hand,I always help people and people always leave and say oh I joined a friends guld after they got a ton of loot from you, so it goes both ways... I ran the guild for 16 years and seen some messed up stuff, but also met some awesome people to.
If you are not apart of the 5-6 "cool" kid core group of a guild, don't ever expect any help with group content, tier gear, quest help, etc.
What you CAN expect is doing what THEY want the rest of you to do, like farming tier gear, killing a world boss for a rare drop, etc etc.
Very tired of being told that not all guilds are like that. Yes, they are. I guild hop a lot to find this magical guild in many MMOs and this is all the same.
Tired of getting gear, achievements, and content done for the cool group. Tired of nobody responding to calls for help from other guildmates not in the cool group.
Oh and be sure to be online during raid times in case they need to fill a spot. You won't get anything, but you must help cool kid #4 farm gear for his 7th alt, while you're wearing trash.
Is this common for any of you these days?
Yes, guilds suck. This is a natural corollary of the fact that people suck.
Just create a guild with yourself and your spouse and your close (i.e., actually know them in real life) friends and be done with it.
I ran a guild for 16 years , it was great but then people guld hop alot, after helping and using the guild....This is why alot of the good guilds retired they get tired of the users...... so you only have your self to blame for the guild hopping and bad guilds today...It was never this way 5 years ago as much , 10 not at all.. People today are all about them selves, so your fault, not the guilds.. Yes there are bad ones, but people screw the good ones over, we always ran guild stuff every day... and people still leave whine... I had people stay for 16 years of course... but those others do ruin it.
I would stay in your guild. Don't lay blame on me because I'm trying to find you.
Yeah its the sad reality of MMORPGs. I wouldn't really blame the guild, just certain people. As was said before, there are a lot of people that like to use guilds for benefits or w/e they can get for free, like those nagging people who instantly ask "can I have money?" the second they enter. So people tend to build 0 tolerance when anyone ask anything and is relatively new. Also have to take into account the person's day, possible schedule, mood, etc. Not everyone is a complete arse to be an arse and can depend on the day.
Comments
They don't even tell you their true identity most of the time.
There are people in my guilds that are just like me. Looking to do group content. I help them. I enjoy helping others obtain whatever it is they are trying to accomplish.
However, when there are 6 of us standing around , grouped up, begging for 2 more to help us, nobody responds. Not even when offered in-game money.
Myself and others are active and do what we can, but at what point do you feel like an idiot begging for help? I have a little more self-respect than that.
Your solution is too simplistic.
Why should I join just any guild only to be supremely annoyed and then leave. Maybe even leaving bad blood in the process as "some people" take that very personally. And he already gave me the info I needed; I asked for places where I could learn about his guild and instead of giving them to me, he gave me a "quip".
That tells me everything I need right there.
My whole life is about mitigating nonsense, stress, bad decisions. I concentrate on things that I believe will be fun, fulfilling and make my life better.
I pretty much follow the advice that a teacher gave me years ago: "say no to the things you don't want so you can say yes to the things you do want".
And I would much prefer to stick with a guild I find fulfilling or at least has good people. I've been gaming with a small group since Lineage 2 so it works.
Then again Nariusseldon, you and I see games and gaming from very different places.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
But that's not all. Everyone replying thinks I'm anti-social and spamming for help. It's not like that.
For example, there is and event going on. Some of this event requires a group. Us "outsiders", aka unknown cannon fodder, want to do event stuff. The "core" group doesn't want to help because they don't feel like the event is as important than farming tier gear for their 7th or 8th alt.
I care about content, not gear. My main will never be geared. By the time I get "geared" it's outdated and under-leveled anyways by patches or expansions. So I don't waste my time with it.
I wish people didn't draw conclusions. Makes me wonder why they are so defensive.
Now if you play long enough together, you may feel comfortable telling the other guy something about yourself, but thats a result of playing together, not a requirement for doing so. Actually, the more "real life" (as if the time spent gaming wouldn't be real) comes into play, the more likely all those issues with preferential treatment etc. crop up.
I'll wait to the day's end when the moon is high
And then I'll rise with the tide with a lust for life, I'll
Amass an army, and we'll harness a horde
And then we'll limp across the land until we stand at the shore
- Albert Einstein
Guilds dont suck, people complaining about guilds are the ones that suck. If you can't find one, make your own, simple.
I'll tell you why I don't do that. Because I don't feel the need to be "in-charge", like others need to be. Just like I don't think telling people I meet that I'm a GM in a video game like that is important and should be on my resume or something. People like that don't impress me.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Unfortunately that sort of system no longer works due to the ridiculous amounts of options players have today. Not to mention the ease of leveling coupled with the ability to server hop without much issue.
The other issue which has also been mentioned already is that there are simply way too many guilds these days. Everyone thinks they can run their own today and end up taking one or two good players away from what could potentially be better guilds. This scatters all the good players which inevitable causes guilds to slowly die as those players find each other.
"If you're not recruiting, you're dying" has never been more true than in todays guild climate.
Yeah, if you joined a well establish guild where people have known each other for years and are very deep into current content you can expect to have a cool kids club.
Look for newer guilds or ones that haven't started raiding yet or only recently started. If they're burnishing their raid credentials in their trade chat advertisement it's probably not the guild for you.
I figured that out a few months into AoC release. We were all made to raid with the GM to get him raid tokens to gear up and nobody else was allowed to loot. I felt like I was working and not playing games. I thought about making my own guild, maybe doing the same thing since people think this is acceptable.
But, could just find like minded people and be normal. Like what you are suggesting. I knew this years ago. But you know, if you're not in charge, you'll never get what you want these days.
This thread isn't about raids or gear. It's about the ability to form a holy trinity group of 4, to kill a rare world boss for an achievement or loot drop. Or a once a year event during the week.
This is about 40 people online and somebody asks for 10 minutes of help and only a few of us answer the call.
Or watching a new guy in the guild ask in chat if we're doing anything thing and cringing. Why? because the core group replies in chat "RAID TIMES ARE 4, 6, AND 8. THE RAID WE RUN IS IN MOTD.
I sent a tell to that guy and said, what they are telling you is no, you will do what they want you to do and the times they say to do it. His reply? "Damn, what was that? If I would have known, I would never had asked." I said, I know, when I saw you ask in guild chat, I thought to myself, prepare your anus, bro.
You see, if somebody suggests to do something outside raid times and destinations, all hell breaks loose. They feel that you are taking people away from them in case they need someone to fill a spot.
It's shitty.
But yeah, I hear ya man.
Best trick is to play a good while solo, learn some mechanics on your own and refuse all invites for awhile, do some forums searching in the guild section then do the guild hopping till you find a home you like.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
I'll be in a PUG doing well and somebody from a progression guild is like dude, why are you not in a guild? Then I see his guild tag and think, "oh, this is one of the big boys that clears endgame content. I want to do that." That's how I usually end up in a guild.
Just create a guild with yourself and your spouse and your close (i.e., actually know them in real life) friends and be done with it.
You will be much more happy!