I'm Predicting A Video Game Crash For One Simple Reason

Distopia

NorseGod said:

IMO,

Because "corporate greed" is applied anytime a business takes corrective actions that are not always pleasant to some. The label is overused and misplaced.

There is a political agenda pushing this. That corporations are bad. Being rich is bad. Being successful is bad.

That's why I say corporate greed by their terms, is a myth.

What you're showing is you've fallen into the opposite end of the spectrum...

VengeSunsoar

No. It's about people asking other people  to pay for them and their life regardless of how much work they or other people work.  In a voluntary system everyone earning and making the same is  fine.

 If it's not  voluntary you just made me your slave by taking from me and all  the work i do to give it to someone who didn't put in the same time or effort.

Society does  not owe anyone anything. The corporation does  not owe you a job.  Society does not owe you a wage. You owe it to yourself to go get one. 

NorseGod

Distopia said:

VengeSunsoar said:

No. Not  everyone does deserve a living wage.  The world owes you nothing.  You are entitled to only what you are willing to do yourself.  You will only be paid what society feels  your actions are worth. 

So no.  Everyone is not entitled to a living wage. 

This is what sucks about these conversation on just about any level. People seem to just buy into corporate propaganda, which is the only entity served by such a mentality. The more they outsource the real industries, the more they price gouge as much as they can, with politicians/media in their pocket pushing beliefs like this, the more actual living wages slip away, while the people most effected are steadfast in defense of such actions without even realizing it.

This isn't really about entitlement, not in the least bit... that's just more of the propaganda people buy into..

I make a living off businesses that outsource. You see, I made my own way with the tools and resources I had.

I'm in Industry X.
Industry X is moving overseas with no end in sight.
Found a workaround and still be in Industry X.
Profit.

Politicians and media are on the corporations side? Really? Oh, and you think because you can pile on more taxes, laws, hire quotas, and other burdens, they will stick around? You're telling the rest of us you would stick around? Unlikely.

NorseGod

Distopia said:

NorseGod said:

IMO,

Because "corporate greed" is applied anytime a business takes corrective actions that are not always pleasant to some. The label is overused and misplaced.

There is a political agenda pushing this. That corporations are bad. Being rich is bad. Being successful is bad.

That's why I say corporate greed by their terms, is a myth.

What you're showing is you've fallen into the opposite end of the spectrum...

Why did you use the word "fallen"?

Charlie.Cheswick

NorseGod said:

Distopia said:

NorseGod said:

IMO,

Because "corporate greed" is applied anytime a business takes corrective actions that are not always pleasant to some. The label is overused and misplaced.

There is a political agenda pushing this. That corporations are bad. Being rich is bad. Being successful is bad.

That's why I say corporate greed by their terms, is a myth.

What you're showing is you've fallen into the opposite end of the spectrum...

Why did you use the word "fallen"?

Heh - I'm imagining you would use the word "ascension". 

NorseGod

Charlie.Cheswick said:

NorseGod said:

Distopia said:

NorseGod said:

IMO,

Because "corporate greed" is applied anytime a business takes corrective actions that are not always pleasant to some. The label is overused and misplaced.

There is a political agenda pushing this. That corporations are bad. Being rich is bad. Being successful is bad.

That's why I say corporate greed by their terms, is a myth.

What you're showing is you've fallen into the opposite end of the spectrum...

Why did you use the word "fallen"?

Heh - I'm imagining you would use the word "ascension". 

lol

Seriously though, I'm neither.

Charlie.Cheswick

NorseGod said:

Distopia said:

VengeSunsoar said:

No. Not  everyone does deserve a living wage.  The world owes you nothing.  You are entitled to only what you are willing to do yourself.  You will only be paid what society feels  your actions are worth. 

So no.  Everyone is not entitled to a living wage. 

This is what sucks about these conversation on just about any level. People seem to just buy into corporate propaganda, which is the only entity served by such a mentality. The more they outsource the real industries, the more they price gouge as much as they can, with politicians/media in their pocket pushing beliefs like this, the more actual living wages slip away, while the people most effected are steadfast in defense of such actions without even realizing it.

This isn't really about entitlement, not in the least bit... that's just more of the propaganda people buy into..

I make a living off businesses that outsource. You see, I made my own way with the tools and resources I had.

I'm in Industry X.
Industry X is moving overseas with no end in sight.
Found a workaround and still be in Industry X.
Profit.

Politicians and media are on the corporations side? Really? Oh, and you think because you can pile on more taxes, laws, hire quotas, and other burdens, they will stick around? You're telling the rest of us you would stick around? Unlikely.

Whether or not one would stick around would depend on their priorities, morality, patriotism etc. I would hope that one's only reference for answers would not be dictated purely by the profit motive.

Razeekster

Slapshot1188 said:

Razeekster said:

VengeSunsoar said:

Well if that's your dream i guess you better get to work to achieve it instead of demanding other people give you things you haven't earned. 

I have literally "demanded" nothing but a living wage. That should be a given for everyone. You try living off $7.50 an hour in today's world without a roommate to help out. It's not easy at all.

And all these people telling me to apply to places or move somewhere else: you apparently missed the part where I said I moved towns to try and find a job and sent my resume with applications to over 40 places and only got an interview request from one place.

A lot of you seem to think I'm lazy when I busted my ass off just to find a job that only pays me the bare minimum. 

It really actually irritates me to see this suggestion that I am at all lazy. I definitely AM NOT. That $700 computer I built? Busted my ass off for that for a good two years.

I have loans to pay, car insurance, rent, plus people to pay back for keeping me on my feet for the six plus months that I was looking for a job. 

Look for a different line of work?  Get a skill that is actually useful and someone will pay for? Minimum wage jobs are not meant to be careers.  Go work sorting packages for a company like UPS or work in an Amazon warehouse.  Sure you will have to start working third shift but they will pay you close to the "living wage" you whine for.  You will bust your ass working though.  Heck, right now both of those companies are filling thousands and thousands of seasonal jobs.   Here you go: http://www.adeccousa.com/job-seekers/pages/job-detail.aspx?jobid=US_EN_1_027779_11064163&bid=1000 

Took me less than 1 minute. You are welcome.  

If you are willing to work off hours and weekends its very easy to find jobs that pay your "living wage".    Good luck.

It's actually a bit (quite a bit) harder for me since I have hips that aren't in my sockets and scoliosis, so I can't lift anything above 10 pounds basically. That and discrimination against disabled workers is really quite prevalent from what I've personally experienced.

And no, I don't want pity for having disabilities. It's just a fact I live with.

NorseGod

Charlie.Cheswick said:

NorseGod said:

Distopia said:

VengeSunsoar said:

No. Not  everyone does deserve a living wage.  The world owes you nothing.  You are entitled to only what you are willing to do yourself.  You will only be paid what society feels  your actions are worth. 

So no.  Everyone is not entitled to a living wage. 

This is what sucks about these conversation on just about any level. People seem to just buy into corporate propaganda, which is the only entity served by such a mentality. The more they outsource the real industries, the more they price gouge as much as they can, with politicians/media in their pocket pushing beliefs like this, the more actual living wages slip away, while the people most effected are steadfast in defense of such actions without even realizing it.

This isn't really about entitlement, not in the least bit... that's just more of the propaganda people buy into..

I make a living off businesses that outsource. You see, I made my own way with the tools and resources I had.

I'm in Industry X.
Industry X is moving overseas with no end in sight.
Found a workaround and still be in Industry X.
Profit.

Politicians and media are on the corporations side? Really? Oh, and you think because you can pile on more taxes, laws, hire quotas, and other burdens, they will stick around? You're telling the rest of us you would stick around? Unlikely.

Whether or not one would stick around would depend on their priorities, morality, patriotism etc. I would hope that one's only reference for answers would not be dictated purely by the profit motive.

I wish that were a reality. But you're going to have to convince Americans to buy American at a higher cost and stop shopping at Target and Wal-Mart.

I just don't see that happening for a long time, sadly.

VengeSunsoar

I've actually read several papers that assert  that buying strictly local would actually cause the economy to shrink significantly. A great deal of income is generated by import and export, more than would be offset by just buying local,  which effectively stops when you just by local. 

Razeekster

H0urg1ass said:

Enlist in the Military, pick any job that gets you a security clearance.  The military will pay off your college loans over the course of three years. Then you can make serious money as a contractor when you leave the military after your first enlistment.

But then again, that requires putting in real work for a minimum of four years, and no, making donuts is not real work.

I actually would love it if I could qualify for the military but last time I was aware, I can't due to my disabilities.

NorseGod

Razeekster said:

H0urg1ass said:

Enlist in the Military, pick any job that gets you a security clearance.  The military will pay off your college loans over the course of three years. Then you can make serious money as a contractor when you leave the military after your first enlistment.

But then again, that requires putting in real work for a minimum of four years, and no, making donuts is not real work.

I actually would love it if I could qualify for the military but last time I was aware, I can't due to my disabilities.

Ah.

If I had a nickle...

Razeekster

VengeSunsoar said:

I've actually read several papers that assert  that buying strictly local would actually cause the economy to shrink significantly. A great deal of income is generated by import and export, more than would be offset by just buying local,  which effectively stops when you just by local. 

What "papers" are these because as someone who has lived in rural areas and seen what Wal-Mart has done to local businesses, I find that hard to believe.

Razeekster

NorseGod said:

Razeekster said:

H0urg1ass said:

Enlist in the Military, pick any job that gets you a security clearance.  The military will pay off your college loans over the course of three years. Then you can make serious money as a contractor when you leave the military after your first enlistment.

But then again, that requires putting in real work for a minimum of four years, and no, making donuts is not real work.

I actually would love it if I could qualify for the military but last time I was aware, I can't due to my disabilities.

Ah.

If I had a nickle...

Wow, gonna get real low in that dirt and mud and suggest I'm lying about having disabilities, huh? I wish I were lying. Trust me. 

VengeSunsoar

Razeekster said:

VengeSunsoar said:

I've actually read several papers that assert  that buying strictly local would actually cause the economy to shrink significantly. A great deal of income is generated by import and export, more than would be offset by just buying local,  which effectively stops when you just by local. 

What "papers" are these because as someone who has lived in rural areas and seen what Wal-Mart has done to local businesses, I find that hard to believe.

I'd never be able to find them now, it was like 10 years ago and I don't believe they were journals, merely articles in things like forbes, or Bloomberg, the economist...

I can tell you that despite the negativity of things like free trade on certain markets, the overall market has increased significantly due to them, taking it away would cause a crash.

edit - of course many are warning about debt levels wreaking havoc anyway... so take your pick.

Distopia

VengeSunsoar said:

No. It's about people asking other people  to pay for them and their life regardless of how much work they or other people work.  In a voluntary system everyone earning and making the same is  fine.

 If it's not  voluntary you just made me your slave by taking from me and all  the work i do to give it to someone who didn't put in the same time or effort.

Society does  not owe anyone anything. The corporation does  not owe you a job.  Society does not owe you a wage. You owe it to yourself to go get one. 

I have a job thank you very much as does my wife (we live quite cozy lives, for now) that won't last at this rate..., yet that isn't the point I was making and you know it (wanting a job), it's not about owing anything it's about an interest in the financial stability of a nation, not just a corporate entity... That hasn't been the interest of these mega corps for quite some time.

Distopia

NorseGod said:

Distopia said:

VengeSunsoar said:

No. Not  everyone does deserve a living wage.  The world owes you nothing.  You are entitled to only what you are willing to do yourself.  You will only be paid what society feels  your actions are worth. 

So no.  Everyone is not entitled to a living wage. 

This is what sucks about these conversation on just about any level. People seem to just buy into corporate propaganda, which is the only entity served by such a mentality. The more they outsource the real industries, the more they price gouge as much as they can, with politicians/media in their pocket pushing beliefs like this, the more actual living wages slip away, while the people most effected are steadfast in defense of such actions without even realizing it.

This isn't really about entitlement, not in the least bit... that's just more of the propaganda people buy into..

Politicians and media are on the corporations side? Really? Oh, and you think because you can pile on more taxes, laws, hire quotas, and other burdens, they will stick around? You're telling the rest of us you would stick around? Unlikely.

Again with the absurdity... is that the only angle you can argue from? Our economy is at it's strongest when the interest of the nation is of the most pertinence to our industries, it's at its weakest when it's all about corporate profit, welcome to 2015 as that's where we are now... Great for you, you found a way to circumvent that... most suffer from it, but that's of no concern to you obviously...

psiic

Razeekster said:

psiic said:

Let me guess you got a degree in liberal arts, or art history or so other useless education so you could smoke dope and party your way through college with the other liberal socialist entitled generation who think they should be able to sit around on their ass all day dipping a doughnut in a fryer every 2 hours or so for $15 an hour.  

I grew up dirt poor, crying myself to sleep hungry many nights. Cardboard in my shoes to keep the cold out. No fucking G I Joe, or He-man, or any of that crap other kids had. I had a BB gun to hunt squirrels and rabbits.  

I worked my ass off from the time I was 12 years old, most days for a hell of a lot less than $7.50 an hour.

Paper route, cutting grass, shoveling horse crap, washing dishes, line cook, bar back, all before I was 17 and joined the Navy.

22 years and I did not waste a day of it. Free education in drafting, engineering, construction, plumbing, and electricity.

I did not sit on my lazy ass waiting for anyone to give it to me.

I went after it every freaking day sometimes from 4 am to midnight, and never once did I whine or complain.

I hate this worthless generation. You don't feel you make enough fucking money than get a 2nd job, a 3rd job.
Learn a useful skill that is in demand.  

Hell I pay $20 a hour for guys to hang drywall, not a real hard skill to learn, but lemme tell ya they earn it. Hell my laborers make $12 an hour, dumb as rocks, not a high school diploma among them. Smart enough to get a job in construction.

Just boggles the mind how the hell we got where we are. The healthiest, most highly educated generation we have every had, and they are the most worthless pathetic useless human beings this world has ever known.                                                                                                                                                                                 

Oh please, I raised myself so I know what a tough childhood is. The difference is I don't use my crappy childhood as an excuse for others having to suffer. Because of my crappy childhood I want the future to be better for future generations because I'm not an asshole who believes that future generations should have to go through the same crap that my generation or past generations have gone through.

This "I suffered so everyone else should have too" seems to be the biggest excuse here. It's pretty troubling to be honest.

It's a very selfish, bitter attitude to have.

My point is, this is still the land of opportunity. If the OP is not happy with only making $7.50 then he can do something about it other than whine about it. 

psiic

Krimzin said:

Razeekster said:

My generation is broke and underpaid.

I'm 22, working at Dunkin Donuts for the measly wage of $7.50 an hour. I'm working with people with freaking 4+ years of college around my age (20-25) who can't get work in their fields, and so they're working at bloody Dunkin Donuts for $7.50 an hour (a lot of them with kids too, paying off college debts). I JUST am finally getting internet in my apartment after almost 4 months.

The bottom line is that most of my generation cannot afford $60 games, and when we're up to bat (so to speak) we will not be able to afford to keep the game industry alive unless wages have been raised.

It's really too bad, but the world has turned into a place of rampant greed and the rot is now bleeding into video games too.

Your generation is broke because you choose to be. You have time to play games you have time to go to school or get a second job. Being successful isn't easy. Being successful is about sacrifice. So you cant find a solid job in your area. Move. Example, Amazon.com is hiring 2000 workers in TX for $15/hr to start. 

The golden rule, don't bitch about your problems until you have a solution. 

If you truly wanted to do better you would. You are content with how much you work vs how much you earn so you want to group others into your situation to make yourself feel better. Truth is that there are a lot of 22 year old men and women making much more of their lives than you are choosing to do. Instead of whining about it on a forum, make a change.

Change your attitude, Change your life.

Very well said. 

Distopia

psiic said:

Krimzin said:

Razeekster said:

My generation is broke and underpaid.

I'm 22, working at Dunkin Donuts for the measly wage of $7.50 an hour. I'm working with people with freaking 4+ years of college around my age (20-25) who can't get work in their fields, and so they're working at bloody Dunkin Donuts for $7.50 an hour (a lot of them with kids too, paying off college debts). I JUST am finally getting internet in my apartment after almost 4 months.

The bottom line is that most of my generation cannot afford $60 games, and when we're up to bat (so to speak) we will not be able to afford to keep the game industry alive unless wages have been raised.

It's really too bad, but the world has turned into a place of rampant greed and the rot is now bleeding into video games too.

Your generation is broke because you choose to be. You have time to play games you have time to go to school or get a second job. Being successful isn't easy. Being successful is about sacrifice. So you cant find a solid job in your area. Move. Example, Amazon.com is hiring 2000 workers in TX for $15/hr to start. 

The golden rule, don't bitch about your problems until you have a solution. 

If you truly wanted to do better you would. You are content with how much you work vs how much you earn so you want to group others into your situation to make yourself feel better. Truth is that there are a lot of 22 year old men and women making much more of their lives than you are choosing to do. Instead of whining about it on a forum, make a change.

Change your attitude, Change your life.

Very well said. 

Why do people make it out that it's so easy to just up and move? you need to be able to afford to do that, Simply moving from one area in Maryland to another cost a very hefty sum for my wife and I, moving across the country for 15 bucks an hour? LMAO...good point indeed..

I agree you need to work hard to get by, that's the extent of any point there..

NorseGod

Distopia said:

NorseGod said:

Distopia said:

VengeSunsoar said:

No. Not  everyone does deserve a living wage.  The world owes you nothing.  You are entitled to only what you are willing to do yourself.  You will only be paid what society feels  your actions are worth. 

So no.  Everyone is not entitled to a living wage. 

This is what sucks about these conversation on just about any level. People seem to just buy into corporate propaganda, which is the only entity served by such a mentality. The more they outsource the real industries, the more they price gouge as much as they can, with politicians/media in their pocket pushing beliefs like this, the more actual living wages slip away, while the people most effected are steadfast in defense of such actions without even realizing it.

This isn't really about entitlement, not in the least bit... that's just more of the propaganda people buy into..

Politicians and media are on the corporations side? Really? Oh, and you think because you can pile on more taxes, laws, hire quotas, and other burdens, they will stick around? You're telling the rest of us you would stick around? Unlikely.

Again with the absurdity... is that the only angle you can argue from? Our economy is at it's strongest when the interest of the nation is of the most pertinence to our industries, it's at its weakest when it's all about corporate profit, welcome to 2015 as that's where we are now... Great for you, you found a way to circumvent that... most suffer from it, but that's of no concern to you obviously...

People go into business to make money, not run a charity for a nation.

Like I said to someone earlier, you need to convince Americans to buy American at higher prices.

Getting rid of NAFTA would be a start. Who gave us that btw? Corporations or our representative government?

There would be nothing I would love more than see Wal-Mart go out of business. But that's just not going to happen.

Corporations in the U.S. pay the highest taxes in the world. Provide benefits. Forced to hire unqualified people by law. And on and on and on. I don't blame them for moving overseas. THAT is reality.

Welcome to 2015.

psiic

laserit said:

Razeekster said:

ugh

Mark my words

Just tack on another 20 or 30 years and you'll say the exact same word, but on the other side of the debate.

As sure a thing as death and taxes

So true. The really messed up part is these young people think their visions and ideals of a better world are unique and original. They do not realize real change takes time, money, and power, but when you get old, rich, and connected, you really are just too wore out to bother with the big stuff.  I just focus on the little crap I know I can personally change that way the young people can still be outraged and indignant over the same big stuff we were when we were that age. 

Shoko_Lied

jalexbrown said:

stayontarget said:

Minimum wage in my state is $12 to $15 dollars/hour.  Wherever you live it sucks.

Minimum wage is typically correlated to cost of living, so it should in theory basically come out even so you can maintain exactly the same quality of life anywhere on whatever is minimum wage.  Of course this is just the theory, and in practice it's likely not the case.

Except steam games don't change in price if you live in a place with higher minimum wage. So a gamer's pseudo NEET lifestyle can be more easily maintained, even if everything else goes up in price

Razeekster

Distopia said:

NorseGod said:

Distopia said:

VengeSunsoar said:

No. Not  everyone does deserve a living wage.  The world owes you nothing.  You are entitled to only what you are willing to do yourself.  You will only be paid what society feels  your actions are worth. 

So no.  Everyone is not entitled to a living wage. 

This is what sucks about these conversation on just about any level. People seem to just buy into corporate propaganda, which is the only entity served by such a mentality. The more they outsource the real industries, the more they price gouge as much as they can, with politicians/media in their pocket pushing beliefs like this, the more actual living wages slip away, while the people most effected are steadfast in defense of such actions without even realizing it.

This isn't really about entitlement, not in the least bit... that's just more of the propaganda people buy into..

Politicians and media are on the corporations side? Really? Oh, and you think because you can pile on more taxes, laws, hire quotas, and other burdens, they will stick around? You're telling the rest of us you would stick around? Unlikely.

Again with the absurdity... is that the only angle you can argue from? Our economy is at it's strongest when the interest of the nation is of the most pertinence to our industries, it's at its weakest when it's all about corporate profit, welcome to 2015 as that's where we are now... Great for you, you found a way to circumvent that... most suffer from it, but that's of no concern to you obviously...

It's funny to me because it's history literally repeating itself and people are just too brainwashed to even attempt to research the truth instead of what corporations tell them.

Distopia

NorseGod said:

Distopia said:

Again with the absurdity... is that the only angle you can argue from? Our economy is at it's strongest when the interest of the nation is of the most pertinence to our industries, it's at its weakest when it's all about corporate profit, welcome to 2015 as that's where we are now... Great for you, you found a way to circumvent that... most suffer from it, but that's of no concern to you obviously...

People go into business to make money, not run a charity for a nation.

Like I said to someone earlier, you need to convince Americans to buy American at higher prices.

Getting rid of NAFTA would be a start. Who gave us that btw? Corporations or our representative government?

There would be nothing I would love more than see Wal-Mart go out of business. But that's just not going to happen.

Corporations in the U.S. pay the highest taxes in the world. Provide benefits. Forced to hire unqualified people by law. And on and on and on. I don't blame them for moving overseas. THAT is reality.

Welcome to 2015.

Of course I never said otherwise, you're missing the point I am making here... We're in a f'd up situation across the board, and both sides of the isle are to blame if we want to get political about it... One side pushing companies away, another protecting hurtful practices because it fills their pockets. There needs to be a real shake up of the highest level to make any difference which will never happen in this climate of apathy..