When you go out to dinner look around you and see how many people are talking to the people they are with. Most will be looking at their cellphones. MMO players are merely reflecting society today.
1) The players like a few on here and who destroy official forums. All they do is cry an moan about how horrible the game is. Anytime there is a change they bitch and moan. It's all they do. Pick a game on here example and anyone can pick 4 or 5 posters who will spam their hate for it. Swtor? Jest will be right there crying about it for example. Why would you want to group with someone who complains during the entire raid or dungeon.
2) The entitlement generation they think they are entitled to the best loot without any effort and when it requires an effort they want to fly through as fast as possible skipping everything they can and screaming at those who aren't in a hurry.
I tend to believe it's the design of the game, not the players that push antisocial behavior. The first signs of this is when by default every game had a Global chat channel, or zone chat channels where they could just ask whatever and get an answer.
In the best team based mmorpgs you didn't have global chat in the beginning. You had a /say where only people in a radius could hear you and then a /yell which was a little bigger. The point is people had to actually talk to other people to find out information, information being the drama in the game, who was doing what, where something was happening.... you had to be somewhat civil to advance. This forced players to 'introduce't themselves and build relationships.
In today's game you never even have to see another people which starts you on a path to be anti social.
I think it is a combination of things. I think there is a gamer set who are inherently anti-social and withdrawn. Perhaps, they have issues communicating with people on a direct level or they anxiety or personality disorders. I'm not sure what true cause is, but there is an anti-social group among mmo players. I think PvP plays a big part. Look, I see the appeal in PvP and I hope to run more group stuff. However, there are a group of people who are competitive and anti-social. I don't plan or routinely plan to sign on a community to run around by myself and beat up on people or get in a "gang" and go around beating up on people. I, for one, am some what invested in the story of a game. I can just play something like mortal combat or something similar if I want to beat up on people. I join an mmo because I am seeking to socialize and play along with other people. Personally, I'm a RPer. You can here the nastiness in other's messages about pathetic people who use mmos as a source of interaction. I want to form teams and groups/guilds that run content designed to challenge us. There's enough competition and nastiness in the REAL world. I don't need an mmo to beat up on people. I can get that from my Marvel vs Capcom game or something similar. It just seems dark, twisted, and disturbing. Frankly, I'd be worried about people who only want to do that.
Also, there are a group of (yes again) anti-social people who lack any patience. You're are going to encounter new people ALL THE TIME in a game. If not, then that game is on it's way to an impending death. BE PATIENT. Whether it's PUG or just some open world group material. There will always be someone learning the material. Don't start yelling and openly bitching at people. If nothing else, you'll turn them off and kill the game you seem to like. I think every game should have aspects of both PvP and PvE. Otherwise, just separate them so I can stay away from weird, nasty, and socially-incompetent people. In my favorite mmo (RIP), you could get advice at the drop of a hat from numerous people around you with one public question. It was just that type of community.
Frankly, as the shift towards PvP, and maybe F2P, grows I think the community will continue to become nastier and nastier. I am not sure what the threshold for change will be. Perhaps, decreasing sales might prompt developers to refrain from exclusive PvP stuff and refocus on archetypes and mechanics that encourage team play. I hate those comments about having to be dependent on a particular set to accomplish things. YEAH...TEAMWORK. It doesn't mean that your archetype should not be able to run things alone also.
They deal with the hordes of jerks you find on-line by NOT dealing with them.
People that get treated badly enough, long enough, will do that you know.
Ask a lot of long term gamers what is one of the first things they do in a game? Turn off world chat if they can. People want to have fun...not be bombarded with constant reminders of how awful some people are.
It goes downhill from that. To seeing first hand how people treat others badly, and act badly, just because they can.
These types of jerks are the worst enemies to other people that like grouping and playing games with some decent folks.
A good question would be what do people find fun in MMOs today. A better question is why do they find these games fun.
IP and good combat gameplay?
For example, there is no other place I can find an action RPG game with lots of marvel characters but marvel heroes.
Or quick e-sports type matches as in World of Tank? I played World of World ship a little bit because i like the idea of piloting big capital ship. There is no good single player game that allows me to do that.
It's not much fun when you are alone and doing the same thing over and over again IMO. It's all very scripted at best and usually in a fairly bland and predictable way.
Fun is subjective. CLEARLY it is fun for some doing *some* stuff over and over again .. otherwise Diablo 2 (the second one) would not have players playing for 10+ years.
I am talking about what is fun for me .. clearly you find other things fun. A good question is what kind of fun will devs be providing because they cannot please everyone.
When you go out to dinner look around you and see how many people are talking to the people they are with. Most will be looking at their cellphones. MMO players are merely reflecting society today.
Pretty much .. if people want to have fun with software, and not people, is there a reason not to give it to them?
We are talking about entertainment here, not education, or trying to save society.
It started when people started to think that they need to be heard. You see it in the forums too, people who just put their point in regardless of it being beneficial or worthwhile. We like to call them trolls or haters or filthy neckbeards or some other term that is supposed to categorize them into a specific fold. The thing we might fail to realize is that the problem may exist beyond the space between the keyboard and the chair. The problem might be an environment of isolation forcing an individual to reach out in the only "safe" form they know. Maybe it's aggression, or maybe cynicism or even offensive perversion. The thing is, that the person is looking for a response. The person is looking for interaction. The person is filling a need. We can try and label them but isn't that also contributing to a environment of isolation? Take a moment and seriously consider what pain is driving the person who acts sore all the time. Maybe it might be a little easier to forgive them for making a mistake, and maybe it will bring back the community that we all miss.
Or maybe it's because their is such unbalance between the population amounts of males vs females. If you fill a henhouse with a bunch of roosters and only a couple chickens it's a noisy mess with lots of fighting. (I believe the term is "too many cocks - not enough hens")
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I am talking about what is fun for me .. clearly you find other things fun. A good question is what kind of fun will devs be providing because they cannot please everyone.
Well, you can make a damned good eleven-year stab at it and bank a hundred billion or so.
However maligned the approach is, here on this site, inclusion is always going to be more profitable than the converse.
To answer this question just go out to any family event, or social gathering, school, or bus stop or heck anywhere where people are in groups.
What is the common thing you see - people glued to their smartphones.
Social media has made people less social and more alone than ever.
People have fundamentally changed and games are just a reflection of this.
I am sick of the texters. Yesterday, I was at a stop light when a guy turning left on a green arrow started to turn into my car. He was texting during a turn? Who the hell does that? If I hadn't hit the horn, he would have him me with his dually pickup. Thankfully he waved at me letting me know if everything was OK!
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
culd b tht ppl r tired of th drama tht usually appears specially if some1 doesnt get th drop he/she wants n also many r tired of th elitist ppl tht complain if yu dun do exactly as he/she planned or kick yu if yu dun have the "right" skills weapons
To answer this question just go out to any family event, or social gathering, school, or bus stop or heck anywhere where people are in groups.
What is the common thing you see - people glued to their smartphones.
Social media has made people less social and more alone than ever.
People have fundamentally changed and games are just a reflection of this.
I am sick of the texters. Yesterday, I was at a stop light when a guy turning left on a green arrow started to turn into my car. He was texting during a turn? Who the hell does that? If I hadn't hit the horn, he would have him me with his dually pickup. Thankfully he waved at me letting me know if everything was OK!
Wow. What a complete douchebag.
It's amazing that all of these new incredible technologies allow all of the truly moronic specimens to display an even higher level of stupidity. Look at that picture for god's sake; as if any of those morons are so important that they do not have the time to walk from one place to the next without being "connected".
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
culd b tht ppl r tired of th drama tht usually appears specially if some1 doesnt get th drop he/she wants n also many r tired of th elitist ppl tht complain if yu dun do exactly as he/she planned or kick yu if yu dun have the "right" skills weapons
.... and then of course there are the people that refuse to type out words in full and use so many shortcuts that there comment becomes incomprehensible. Enough of those and you just start ignoring chat.
It's too bad that it's not possible to make a game that is great for soloing, duos, triads, Four Man Groups, Traditional 6-Player groups, 8 man squads, 10-12 man Parties, 16 man Multi-Groups, 24 to 40+ man raids and armies.
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
culd b tht ppl r tired of th drama tht usually appears specially if some1 doesnt get th drop he/she wants n also many r tired of th elitist ppl tht complain if yu dun do exactly as he/she planned or kick yu if yu dun have the "right" skills weapons
.... and then of course there are the people that refuse to type out words in full and use so many shortcuts that there comment becomes incomprehensible. Enough of those and you just start ignoring chat.
Posts like that should be deleted by the mods. If you cannot take the time to write out your thoughts properly than you do not belong on an internet forum and should be banished eternally to be nothing more than a shitty texter.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
culd b tht ppl r tired of th drama tht usually appears specially if some1 doesnt get th drop he/she wants n also many r tired of th elitist ppl tht complain if yu dun do exactly as he/she planned or kick yu if yu dun have the "right" skills weapons
.... and then of course there are the people that refuse to type out words in full and use so many shortcuts that there comment becomes incomprehensible. Enough of those and you just start ignoring chat.
Posts like that should be deleted by the mods. If you cannot take the time to write out your thoughts properly than you do not belong on an internet forum and should be banished eternally to be nothing more than a shitty texter.
I don't think it's politically correct in the current day and age to resort to such extreme measures just for usage of Internet speak instead of english language.
A polite remainder, or a weakest warning via pm to stop goofing around, sure, but the next to most extreme measure right away ?
Yes it probably is intentional, but if it's not flaming, outward apparent trolling, verbal abuse, etc, ... is it really appropriate to overact in that way to a probably non-primary english speaking individual ?
Always great to have a perfect example of where the problem lies, thanks for stepping up.
My pleasure?
If people are incapable of making friends within a game unless you're forced to, how am I the problem?
If you're finding it hard to make friends, be it in the MMOs, online FPS/RTS/MOBA communities, then you're probably not that likeable.
And anyone thinking removing the LFG tool will help build better communities is deluded.
I don't think the removal of LFD would solve it but there is an almost one to one correlation between the addition of LFD and the rise of anti-social behavior.
Today in WoW if your random dungeon/raid/lfg pug wipes it's not uncommon for one of the members to tell the rest of the group to go kill themselves and immediately drop group.
6 months before LFD was introduced this type of behavior was almost unheard of.
A year and a half after the addition of LFD this type of behavior was common place and you could expect to encounter it on a weekly if not a daily basis.
But you do have a point, it's probably too late to stuff the genie back in the bottle and I doubt any game that already has LFD would remove it but if a new game without the feature came along I would certainly give it look.
Today in WoW if your random dungeon/raid/lfg pug wipes it's not uncommon for one of the members to tell the rest of the group to go kill themselves and immediately drop group.
6 months before LFD was introduced this type of behavior was almost unheard of.
yeh .. isn't it great that now i don't have to tolerate anyone in my entertainment? I can just quit whenever i want.
I'm sure there will be varying opinions on what led to it, but I'm going to go with the rise of the elitism as commonplace behavior (thanks to dps meters and similar mods).
Before elitism became rampant, you could go to a dungeon or raid, and as long as you didn't blatantly do something moronic, everything was fine. It was easy to have a good time with strangers. Just show up, try hard, have fun.
But then guides started coming out, performance mods, gear mods, etc, etc. And people became numbers. You were expected to KNOW the content before ever seeing it. Talk about spoilers . . . how is that even fun? I'd rather experience things as they come in game, not because I youtube'd the fight and watched it 30 times before reading a step by step guide for what my class should be doing during the fight.
So now, you get into pretty much any game, it'll be decent at launch before people have had a chance to inundate the community with these resources, but eventually the elitism will creep back in and you'll join a group that just wants to go as fast as possible and is watching everyone's numbers constantly so they can dole out blame for being 3% less efficient!
If you look at people's fondest memories of games like UO, they'll remember stuff like coming across someone who figured out some silly convoluted way of trapping their house, and it was fun. If UO was mainstream in today's marketplace, "the best build" would exist for every aspect of the game and if you didn't follow it, you would be "wrong". And "the best trap" would be viewed on youtube 500k times and everyone would be doing it. yadda yadda.
This is exactly how I feel about it. People piss and moan about the state of MMO gaming and how the industry caters to the "casuals" or the "elites". The bottom line in my opinion, is that "we" (the consumer), have made it the way it is today. The gaming companies are only chasing our money. Will the genre ever be the way us oldtimers remember? No......I think it is dying. Until the genre dies and is reborn later on with a fresh player base.....we are all doomed to play just the way we are playing today.
I remember when everything was new.....people did not know what they were doing. You asked questions...you just stood around and chatted.....you banded together so you didn't get smoked. Later it became about how fast you could run the dungeon....how efficient you were....and if you were doing your "job" right. Why in the hell would I be worried about that in an endeavor to have fun? I have a real world job where I have to worry about those things. Why would I want to come home and work another job?
Don't get me wrong. There are still groups of like minded people out there playing. It's just that it is getting harder and harder to find them. I have resorted to mostly solo play because of this. I do not want the drama and I sure as hell don't want to sign up for a job I don't get paid for .
culd b tht ppl r tired of th drama tht usually appears specially if some1 doesnt get th drop he/she wants n also many r tired of th elitist ppl tht complain if yu dun do exactly as he/she planned or kick yu if yu dun have the "right" skills weapons
.... and then of course there are the people that refuse to type out words in full and use so many shortcuts that there comment becomes incomprehensible. Enough of those and you just start ignoring chat.
Posts like that should be deleted by the mods. If you cannot take the time to write out your thoughts properly than you do not belong on an internet forum and should be banished eternally to be nothing more than a shitty texter.
I don't think it's politically correct in the current day and age to resort to such extreme measures just for usage of Internet speak instead of english language.
A polite remainder, or a weakest warning via pm to stop goofing around, sure, but the next to most extreme measure right away ?
Yes it probably is intentional, but if it's not flaming, outward apparent trolling, verbal abuse, etc, ... is it really appropriate to overact in that way to a probably non-primary english speaking individual ?
"culd b tht ppl r", "th", "some1", "n also many r", "if u dun do", "kick yu if yu dun have". Please.
This is not a case of ESL, which I have no issue with whatsoever. This is lazy ass poor texting BS that has no place on a forum. We are not limited by characters here so there is no excuse for that type of early 2000's crap diction.
It doesn't matter if it's not flaming/trolling/verbal abuse, if you can't be bothered with putting your thoughts into a somewhat intelligent manner than just zip it.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Comments
1) The players like a few on here and who destroy official forums. All they do is cry an moan about how horrible the game is. Anytime there is a change they bitch and moan. It's all they do. Pick a game on here example and anyone can pick 4 or 5 posters who will spam their hate for it. Swtor? Jest will be right there crying about it for example. Why would you want to group with someone who complains during the entire raid or dungeon.
2) The entitlement generation they think they are entitled to the best loot without any effort and when it requires an effort they want to fly through as fast as possible skipping everything they can and screaming at those who aren't in a hurry.
In the best team based mmorpgs you didn't have global chat in the beginning. You had a /say where only people in a radius could hear you and then a /yell which was a little bigger. The point is people had to actually talk to other people to find out information, information being the drama in the game, who was doing what, where something was happening.... you had to be somewhat civil to advance. This forced players to 'introduce't themselves and build relationships.
In today's game you never even have to see another people which starts you on a path to be anti social.
Also, there are a group of (yes again) anti-social people who lack any patience. You're are going to encounter new people ALL THE TIME in a game. If not, then that game is on it's way to an impending death. BE PATIENT. Whether it's PUG or just some open world group material. There will always be someone learning the material. Don't start yelling and openly bitching at people. If nothing else, you'll turn them off and kill the game you seem to like. I think every game should have aspects of both PvP and PvE. Otherwise, just separate them so I can stay away from weird, nasty, and socially-incompetent people. In my favorite mmo (RIP), you could get advice at the drop of a hat from numerous people around you with one public question. It was just that type of community.
Frankly, as the shift towards PvP, and maybe F2P, grows I think the community will continue to become nastier and nastier. I am not sure what the threshold for change will be. Perhaps, decreasing sales might prompt developers to refrain from exclusive PvP stuff and refocus on archetypes and mechanics that encourage team play. I hate those comments about having to be dependent on a particular set to accomplish things. YEAH...TEAMWORK. It doesn't mean that your archetype should not be able to run things alone also.
People that get treated badly enough, long enough, will do that you know.
Ask a lot of long term gamers what is one of the first things they do in a game? Turn off world chat if they can. People want to have fun...not be bombarded with constant reminders of how awful some people are.
It goes downhill from that. To seeing first hand how people treat others badly, and act badly, just because they can.
These types of jerks are the worst enemies to other people that like grouping and playing games with some decent folks.
It just gets old..you know?
I am talking about what is fun for me .. clearly you find other things fun. A good question is what kind of fun will devs be providing because they cannot please everyone.
Pretty much .. if people want to have fun with software, and not people, is there a reason not to give it to them?
We are talking about entertainment here, not education, or trying to save society.
It started when people started to think that they need to be heard. You see it in the forums too, people who just put their point in regardless of it being beneficial or worthwhile. We like to call them trolls or haters or filthy neckbeards or some other term that is supposed to categorize them into a specific fold. The thing we might fail to realize is that the problem may exist beyond the space between the keyboard and the chair. The problem might be an environment of isolation forcing an individual to reach out in the only "safe" form they know. Maybe it's aggression, or maybe cynicism or even offensive perversion. The thing is, that the person is looking for a response. The person is looking for interaction. The person is filling a need. We can try and label them but isn't that also contributing to a environment of isolation? Take a moment and seriously consider what pain is driving the person who acts sore all the time. Maybe it might be a little easier to forgive them for making a mistake, and maybe it will bring back the community that we all miss.
Or maybe it's because their is such unbalance between the population amounts of males vs females. If you fill a henhouse with a bunch of roosters and only a couple chickens it's a noisy mess with lots of fighting. (I believe the term is "too many cocks - not enough hens")
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
However maligned the approach is, here on this site, inclusion is always going to be more profitable than the converse.
I am sick of the texters. Yesterday, I was at a stop light when a guy turning left on a green arrow started to turn into my car. He was texting during a turn? Who the hell does that? If I hadn't hit the horn, he would have him me with his dually pickup. Thankfully he waved at me letting me know if everything was OK!
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
n also many r tired of th elitist ppl tht complain if yu dun do exactly as he/she planned or kick yu if yu dun have the "right" skills weapons
It's amazing that all of these new incredible technologies allow all of the truly moronic specimens to display an even higher level of stupidity. Look at that picture for god's sake; as if any of those morons are so important that they do not have the time to walk from one place to the next without being "connected".
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
A polite remainder, or a weakest warning via pm to stop goofing around, sure, but the next to most extreme measure right away ?
Yes it probably is intentional, but if it's not flaming, outward apparent trolling, verbal abuse, etc, ... is it really appropriate to overact in that way to a probably non-primary english speaking individual ?
Today in WoW if your random dungeon/raid/lfg pug wipes it's not uncommon for one of the members to tell the rest of the group to go kill themselves and immediately drop group.
6 months before LFD was introduced this type of behavior was almost unheard of.
A year and a half after the addition of LFD this type of behavior was common place and you could expect to encounter it on a weekly if not a daily basis.
But you do have a point, it's probably too late to stuff the genie back in the bottle and I doubt any game that already has LFD would remove it but if a new game without the feature came along I would certainly give it look.
I remember when everything was new.....people did not know what they were doing. You asked questions...you just stood around and chatted.....you banded together so you didn't get smoked. Later it became about how fast you could run the dungeon....how efficient you were....and if you were doing your "job" right. Why in the hell would I be worried about that in an endeavor to have fun? I have a real world job where I have to worry about those things. Why would I want to come home and work another job?
Don't get me wrong. There are still groups of like minded people out there playing. It's just that it is getting harder and harder to find them. I have resorted to mostly solo play because of this. I do not want the drama and I sure as hell don't want to sign up for a job I don't get paid for .
This is not a case of ESL, which I have no issue with whatsoever. This is lazy ass poor texting BS that has no place on a forum. We are not limited by characters here so there is no excuse for that type of early 2000's crap diction.
It doesn't matter if it's not flaming/trolling/verbal abuse, if you can't be bothered with putting your thoughts into a somewhat intelligent manner than just zip it.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb