And yet PC gaming beats consoles without even breaking a sweat. When will the OP finally understand how this works ?
Hmm, not op, but a very small percentage of consumers are so discerning when it comes to "who beats who" in gaming software. Smartphone game aps are a multi-billion dollar industry because people don't care about what you and I think is important.
There's an egocentric view, generally, from connoisseurs of, well, anything. Obviously we have refined understanding of the series of products, therefore people should like what we like. There's an odd, true axiom, however, "crap is king", and it has alot to do with targeting the pragmatic. If you can make something seem simple and popular, it sells very, very quickly. Complicated but powerful, not so much.
edit: incidentally, over the next two years, choice picks in my personal portfolio are big IT corporations. The service industry for all the dummies who still can't set a microwave clock is going to be big, almost as big as the elderly healthcare industry.
Gaming won't drive PC sales, it never has. Home PC users are the minority anyway. It's businesses that buy mid range PC's to do the legwork of spreadsheets and word processing that make up the bulk of PC sales.
There are places where you need a PC but there's places where a cheap tablet will do. This is why we are seeing the increasing use of wi-fi and tablets, increasing tablet sales and a decline of PC sales. Businesses are also trying to get more out of their PC's. They want 5 years instead of 3 before replacing units. Everyone is trying to make savings where they can.
The market is saturated. The figures will keep dropping and finally they'll even out again. PC's will die and need to be replaced, there just won't be as many of them in use now that there are alternatives. This is just a changing in focus from PC's to smaller, cheaper hardware where appropriate.
So either are fewer persons using PCs or people are keeping the same computer longer (with possible upgrading).
I think it is a mix of those things, people who bought PCs just to be on facebook and browse the web have probably moved over to IPADs but to be fair were they mainly buying the cheap stuff anyways.
As for us PC gamers, I think that the modern CPUs actually last a year longer then 10 years ago. I used to change my GFX card every second year and CPU every third but it seems like it will be every fourth for CPU next time but will continue with the graphics card every 2 years. Games are more depending on GFX cards today then earlier and the speed of CPUs havn't increased as fast as it used to.
Also, I think more people have learned to upgrade their PC themselves today instead of just buying a new. A new SSD, GFX card and more memory makes PCs live longer and more and more people have got that by now.
As for us PC gamers, I think that the modern CPUs actually last a year longer then 10 years ago. I used to change my GFX card every second year and CPU every third but it seems like it will be every fourth for CPU next time but will continue with the graphics card every 2 years. Games are more depending on GFX cards today then earlier and the speed of CPUs havn't increased as fast as it used to.
This really stuck out to me as well. I play the "trickle down" with my comp stuff. I used to upgrade about every 2-3 years with using any decent parts to upgrade my daughters comp. My comp is now 3 years old and I feel no reason to upgrade. my Daughters is stretching 6 years with no reason to upgrade as she does not do any gaming more than Wizard 101 or a short excursion into GW2.
Basically at this point, no reason to do a complete overhaul. I only purchase to run in maintenance mode. No hot new awesomeness coming out that my comp simply can not handle.
Play what you Like. I like SWOTR, Have a referral to get you going! --> http://www.swtor.com/r/nBndbs <-- Several Unlocks and a few days game time to make the F2P considerably easier
With free win10 upgrades from 7 and 8, not much of an issue.
Unless you hate win 10. I still run win 7 myself but hardly for economical reasons. I will upgrade to 10 eventually though, but I would never have gone for 8 (just like I never got Vista and ME).
Many people like their Windows version and keep it for other reasons then money, and they will probably wait with upgrading until they really are forced to. Heck, more then a few people still use XP.
People tend to upgrade GPU's far more often than CPU's, its easier for one thing, not only that but as long as you have a half decent CPU anyway, then as long as you have a good GPU, your pretty much good to go, and anyone with a high end CPU now, probably won't need to upgrade again for another 5 years or so, by which time, whether or not Windows 10 has been replaced by Windows 11, could be a bit more relevant.
With free win10 upgrades from 7 and 8, not much of an issue.
Unless you hate win 10. I still run win 7 myself but hardly for economical reasons. I will upgrade to 10 eventually though, but I would never have gone for 8 (just like I never got Vista and ME).
Many people like their Windows version and keep it for other reasons then money, and they will probably wait with upgrading until they really are forced to. Heck, more then a few people still use XP.
So I think it will have an impact on sales.
Same thing here. I stayed with xp for a long time because it worked. I never used Vista because it was a bag of nails.
Finally went with windows 7 and it's solid, never a problem. Never had any intention of using windows 8. I feel no need to upgrade to windows 10 and I won't bother unless I'm forced to. If games stop supporting windows 7 I'll have to do it but until them I'm sticking.
With free win10 upgrades from 7 and 8, not much of an issue.
Unless you hate win 10. I still run win 7 myself but hardly for economical reasons. I will upgrade to 10 eventually though, but I would never have gone for 8 (just like I never got Vista and ME).
Many people like their Windows version and keep it for other reasons then money, and they will probably wait with upgrading until they really are forced to. Heck, more then a few people still use XP.
So I think it will have an impact on sales.
After being hesitant over Windows 10, I kept all 3 of my PCs at win7. I upgraded one of first, ran flawless for 2 months - long story short all of my PCs are win10 now been running awesome for 6 months.
Zero issues so far, also in case people worry about lack of media for repair or rescue reasons - Microsoft has a free ISO download as a bootable USB drive in case you need to reinstall win10 from scratch.
As much as people bitch about MS, win10 has been an awesome OS for me.
Windows 10 has been a lot less stable than Windows 7 for me. It's nowhere near the blue-screen-a-day days of Windows 98, but neither is it anywhere near the years-between-crashes of Windows 7. The Windows 10 taskbar has a rather nasty habit of locking up so that clicking on it does nothing. Occasionally I get horrible artifacting upon booting, and have to immediately reboot the computer a second time to fix it.
There are also driver problems. The gamepad I used on my Windows 7 computer doesn't have a Windows 10 driver at all. The video card in my parents' Windows 7 computer doesn't have a Windows 10 driver at all, either. In their case, upgrading to Windows 10 would quite literally break the computer.
And even while many consumers can readily upgrade, it's much harder for businesses. Businesses generally don't want to spread their workstations among several different operating systems if they don't have to. Many businesses just upgraded from XP to Windows 7 in the last few years. Windows has traditionally been attractive for enterprise use precisely because Microsoft will maintain support for such old hardware and software for so many years. If Windows is going to stop doing that, then it becomes a lot less attractive to a lot of businesses.
Windows 10 has been a lot less stable than Windows 7 for me. It's nowhere near the blue-screen-a-day days of Windows 98, but neither is it anywhere near the years-between-crashes of Windows 7. The Windows 10 taskbar has a rather nasty habit of locking up so that clicking on it does nothing. Occasionally I get horrible artifacting upon booting, and have to immediately reboot the computer a second time to fix it.
There are also driver problems. The gamepad I used on my Windows 7 computer doesn't have a Windows 10 driver at all. The video card in my parents' Windows 7 computer doesn't have a Windows 10 driver at all, either. In their case, upgrading to Windows 10 would quite literally break the computer.
And even while many consumers can readily upgrade, it's much harder for businesses. Businesses generally don't want to spread their workstations among several different operating systems if they don't have to. Many businesses just upgraded from XP to Windows 7 in the last few years. Windows has traditionally been attractive for enterprise use precisely because Microsoft will maintain support for such old hardware and software for so many years. If Windows is going to stop doing that, then it becomes a lot less attractive to a lot of businesses.
Well, when you have the correct hardware that has supporting drivers and such, Windows 10 can't be beat by any other version of windows. Not only is it more stable, but it's also the best performing version thus far. Then on top, with the new Direct X ... people who are gaming are going to eventually need to upgrade if they want to take advantage of the massive improvements when devs begin to switch over.
This means those gamers who like to stick with old versions of windows, will be putting themselves at a very big disadvantage unless they upgrade.
I notice a lot more people only accessing sites from their phones. Some don't even own a pc. Usually it died and they can't afford another one and find it easy to use a smart phone or the pc at work.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
With free win10 upgrades from 7 and 8, not much of an issue.
Unless you hate win 10. I still run win 7 myself but hardly for economical reasons. I will upgrade to 10 eventually though, but I would never have gone for 8 (just like I never got Vista and ME).
Many people like their Windows version and keep it for other reasons then money, and they will probably wait with upgrading until they really are forced to. Heck, more then a few people still use XP.
So I think it will have an impact on sales.
Same thing here. I stayed with xp for a long time because it worked. I never used Vista because it was a bag of nails.
Finally went with windows 7 and it's solid, never a problem. Never had any intention of using windows 8. I feel no need to upgrade to windows 10 and I won't bother unless I'm forced to. If games stop supporting windows 7 I'll have to do it but until them I'm sticking.
If it ain't broke, don't try and fix it.
+1
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Its not just PC game sales that are down. All sales are down. We are heading into recession in 2016, the writing is on the wall in BOLD type.
Actually, consumer sentiment is several points higher than anticipated. More USA jobs have been created in the last 12 months than any point in the last 8 years. At the moment, people, surprisingly particularly millenials, are bolstering retirement accounts and personal assets. This is a really, really good sign. It means more people have money and they're looking for smart ways to spend it.
All systems are go for a prolific bull market lasting well into the summer. Any talk of a "2016 recession" is nonsense.
Employment is a lagging indicator. The market has been tanking since the Fed quarter percent rate hike, despite millenials dumping money into a 401k.
Windows 10 has been a lot less stable than Windows 7 for me. It's nowhere near the blue-screen-a-day days of Windows 98, but neither is it anywhere near the years-between-crashes of Windows 7. The Windows 10 taskbar has a rather nasty habit of locking up so that clicking on it does nothing. Occasionally I get horrible artifacting upon booting, and have to immediately reboot the computer a second time to fix it.
There are also driver problems. The gamepad I used on my Windows 7 computer doesn't have a Windows 10 driver at all. The video card in my parents' Windows 7 computer doesn't have a Windows 10 driver at all, either. In their case, upgrading to Windows 10 would quite literally break the computer.
And even while many consumers can readily upgrade, it's much harder for businesses. Businesses generally don't want to spread their workstations among several different operating systems if they don't have to. Many businesses just upgraded from XP to Windows 7 in the last few years. Windows has traditionally been attractive for enterprise use precisely because Microsoft will maintain support for such old hardware and software for so many years. If Windows is going to stop doing that, then it becomes a lot less attractive to a lot of businesses.
Well, when you have the correct hardware that has supporting drivers and such, Windows 10 can't be beat by any other version of windows. Not only is it more stable, but it's also the best performing version thus far. Then on top, with the new Direct X ... people who are gaming are going to eventually need to upgrade if they want to take advantage of the massive improvements when devs begin to switch over.
This means those gamers who like to stick with old versions of windows, will be putting themselves at a very big disadvantage unless they upgrade.
For stability, I'm comparing a new computer I built with new hardware on Windows 10 versus the previous computer I built running Windows 7. I'm not saying Windows 10 is terrible. I'm saying my Windows 10 computer isn't nearly as stable as my Windows 7 computer was. It only took days for Windows 10 to crash on me more times than Windows 7 had in nearly six years.
For drivers, you can make that case if building a new computer. But you can't make that case for Microsoft is pushing Windows 10 on people with older hardware for which Windows 10 drivers don't even exist. Even with a new computer, buying a new computer shouldn't require replacing peripherals because of missing drivers, which is the problem I ran into.
As for games, if DirectX 12 is Windows 10 only, that's likely to make Vulkan look awfully good by comparison. Vulkan isn't going to be restricted by OS. You can argue that not many gamers use Linux or Mac OS, but that's not the case for Windows 7.
For stability, I'm comparing a new computer I built with new hardware on Windows 10 versus the previous computer I built running Windows 7. I'm not saying Windows 10 is terrible. I'm saying my Windows 10 computer isn't nearly as stable as my Windows 7 computer was. It only took days for Windows 10 to crash on me more times than Windows 7 had in nearly six years.
For drivers, you can make that case if building a new computer. But you can't make that case for Microsoft is pushing Windows 10 on people with older hardware for which Windows 10 drivers don't even exist. Even with a new computer, buying a new computer shouldn't require replacing peripherals because of missing drivers, which is the problem I ran into.
As for games, if DirectX 12 is Windows 10 only, that's likely to make Vulkan look awfully good by comparison. Vulkan isn't going to be restricted by OS. You can argue that not many gamers use Linux or Mac OS, but that's not the case for Windows 7.
Well, who knows what is wrong with your computer then. I have not ever had a single crash on Windows 10, which makes me believe the issue is on your end rather than it being an issue with the OS itself. Keeping in mind, my computer is 6 years old and it's running Windows 10 flawlessly.
The point is ... nothing is going to look better than windows 10 once most companies are using DX12 and graphic cards are taking full advantage of it's capabilities.
Exactly. It's important to know that if you switch right now from Windows 7 to Windows 10, you won't get a single DPS advantage in any of the games you are playing. There is absolutely NO reason to upgrade to 10, except for the Microsoft invasive marketing of course, unless you play one of the few indie games that use DX12... the list is short, it's less than 10 games which for most nobody ever heard about. And even for those, the gain is very limited, the DX12 flag is mostly a marketing argument more than a real performance improvement.
My Windows 7 is rock stable. I cloned my system on a second SSD to check out WIndows 10, and I had nothing but trouble, not to mention intolerance for my older devices like my serial Wacom tablet, for absolutely NO gain at all in all the games I'm playing... WoW, Tomb Raider, The Crew, Elite Dangerous, Shards, Witcher 3, Shadow of Mordor, LOTRO, SW: Battlefront, GW2, Minecraft, SOTA... Not a single of those games got any noticeable improvement from moving to Windows 10, but I got several crashes and problems which I never had to face with 7. No need to mention that I will stay with 7 for the foreseeable future.
The switch right now at this moment may not be worth it to some. But as time goes on for pc gamers, it would be silly not to switch.
Also, the only way you can say DX12 is a marketing argument is if you don't actually understand it. Of course there are real performance improvements with DX12, last I remember close to a 30% - 50% increase in FPS, compared to DX11. It's not like this is all talk either, it's been well tested and in some cases the performance can even achieve well above the 30% - 50% mark, depending on the game engine. http://www.pcworld.com/article/2900814/tested-directx-12s-potential-performance-leap-is-insane.html
Sure, there are not many games now at the moment taking advantage of this, but that is how it always is typically when a new DX comes out. However, as time goes on most games are very likely to use it as there is not a good reason not too.
Granted most devs are also likely to allow past versions of DX to work with their game, but you wouldn't be getting those huge performance improvements playing on an earlier version of windows.
For stability, I'm comparing a new computer I built with new hardware on Windows 10 versus the previous computer I built running Windows 7. I'm not saying Windows 10 is terrible. I'm saying my Windows 10 computer isn't nearly as stable as my Windows 7 computer was. It only took days for Windows 10 to crash on me more times than Windows 7 had in nearly six years.
For drivers, you can make that case if building a new computer. But you can't make that case for Microsoft is pushing Windows 10 on people with older hardware for which Windows 10 drivers don't even exist. Even with a new computer, buying a new computer shouldn't require replacing peripherals because of missing drivers, which is the problem I ran into.
As for games, if DirectX 12 is Windows 10 only, that's likely to make Vulkan look awfully good by comparison. Vulkan isn't going to be restricted by OS. You can argue that not many gamers use Linux or Mac OS, but that's not the case for Windows 7.
Well, who knows what is wrong with your computer then. I have not ever had a single crash on Windows 10, which makes me believe the issue is on your end rather than it being an issue with the OS itself. Keeping in mind, my computer is 6 years old and it's running Windows 10 flawlessly.
The point is ... nothing is going to look better than windows 10 once most companies are using DX12 and graphic cards are taking full advantage of it's capabilities.
Exactly. It's important to know that if you switch right now from Windows 7 to Windows 10, you won't get a single DPS advantage in any of the games you are playing. There is absolutely NO reason to upgrade to 10, except for the Microsoft invasive marketing of course, unless you play one of the few indie games that use DX12... the list is short, it's less than 10 games which for most nobody ever heard about. And even for those, the gain is very limited, the DX12 flag is mostly a marketing argument more than a real performance improvement.
My Windows 7 is rock stable. I cloned my system on a second SSD to check out WIndows 10, and I had nothing but trouble, not to mention intolerance for my older devices like my serial Wacom tablet, for absolutely NO gain at all in all the games I'm playing... WoW, Tomb Raider, The Crew, Elite Dangerous, Shards, Witcher 3, Shadow of Mordor, LOTRO, SW: Battlefront, GW2, Minecraft, SOTA... Not a single of those games got any noticeable improvement from moving to Windows 10, but I got several crashes and problems which I never had to face with 7. No need to mention that I will stay with 7 for the foreseeable future.
The switch right now at this moment may not be worth it to some. But as time goes on for pc gamers, it would be silly not to switch.
Also, the only way you can say DX12 is a marketing argument is if you don't actually understand it. Of course there are real performance improvements with DX12, last I remember close to a 30% - 50% increase in FPS, compared to DX11. It's not like this is all talk either, it's been well tested and in some cases the performance can even achieve well above the 30% - 50% mark, depending on the game engine. http://www.pcworld.com/article/2900814/tested-directx-12s-potential-performance-leap-is-insane.html
Sure, there are not many games now at the moment taking advantage of this, but that is how it always is typically when a new DX comes out. However, as time goes on most games are very likely to use it as there is not a good reason not too.
Granted most devs are also likely to allow past versions of DX to work with their game, but you wouldn't be getting those huge performance improvements playing on an earlier version of windows.
When is the last time that a version of DirectX:
1) was widely adopted, and 2) was only available on a new OS and not also on some older version of Windows that predated the version of DirectX by at least two years?
A cursory look at the history of DirectX says "never". DirectX 10 was Vista-exclusive, and scarcely used in spite of adding some really cool stuff. DirectX 11.1 was Windows 8-exclusive, and can you name a single game that used it, ever? A Google search turns up Battlefield 4 and nothing else, and it also had a nearly identical DirectX 11 version.
DirectX 11 was Windows 7-exclusive for all of five days before the Vista version was available. DirectX 9.0c released more than three years after Windows XP, but still was ported back as far as Windows 98.
If you're building a new computer, sure, I'd go with Windows 10. But how many game developers want their game to only be playable by gamers who built a new computer within the last year? How about the last two years?
There's also the issue that, when you upgrade an OS, things can go wrong. Simple patching can break stuff, and service packs even more so. An entirely new OS patched on top of an old one is a lot more chances for things to go wrong, and sometimes things do go wrong. Yes, the upgrade process works fine for a lot of people. But not everyone, and that's a big risk that isn't sensible to take without a good reason to do so.
The original explosion in consumer PC sales where for reasons more easily replicated with smart phones and tablets. PC's true home is at work or for gaming / home office workers. At one point the PC was the only way for grandma to get online.
Man i used to upgrade my pc all the time for gaming. But since now i find that most new games just suck but have great graphics i just stopped doing it.
I'm a developer, not for games, but for real time movie/video effects. I invite you to read my previous post again, and understand it. Right now, there's absolutely NO good reason for a gamer to upgrade, except looking for trouble. You won't get even 1% of FPS increase on your actual games unless their engine is rewritten for DX12.
I don't understand why people always do this. Let me show you what you did.
Here is a quote of what I said to begin with
Then on top, with the new Direct X ... people who are gaming are going to eventually need to upgrade if they want to take advantage of the massive improvements when devs begin to switch over.
I highlighted the important word here for you. I was never talking about "right now." Yet you replied to me in a manner acting like that is what I was saying.
Now here is quote from you.
Exactly. It's important to know that if you switch right now from Windows 7 to Windows 10, you won't get a single DPS advantage in any of the games you are playing.
Again, I was never talking about right now, so if anyone is guilty of not understanding, it's you. I am only adding onto what I originally said. You are the one going off and talking about "right now" when that was never even a part of my point.
If we are talking about right now, I freaking agree with you 100%. But that was never what I was talking about .. so you need to learn to read.
A cursory look at the history of DirectX says "never". DirectX 10 was Vista-exclusive, and scarcely used in spite of adding some really cool stuff. DirectX 11.1 was Windows 8-exclusive, and can you name a single game that used it, ever? A Google search turns up Battlefield 4 and nothing else, and it also had a nearly identical DirectX 11 version.
DirectX 11 was Windows 7-exclusive for all of five days before the Vista version was available. DirectX 9.0c released more than three years after Windows XP, but still was ported back as far as Windows 98.
Game companies can't just simply adopt a new graphics api the instant it comes out. In most cases they wait until they start making new games. So when a new API comes out, you really can't expect to see games start using it till anywhere between 3 - 5 years. Also, the improvements of a DX version greatly effects whether it's worth the move.
As for DX12 remaining exclusive to Windows 10, it's very possible. You seem to forget that windows 10 isn't like past versions of windows. They are trying to phase out past versions and that is why they are giving it away free to those who have past versions. Also they have already confirmed DX12 will not be on past versions. So unless they change their mind, it's not going to happen.
If you're building a new computer, sure, I'd go with Windows 10. But how many game developers want their game to only be playable by gamers who built a new computer within the last year? How about the last two years?
There's also the issue that, when you upgrade an OS, things can go wrong. Simple patching can break stuff, and service packs even more so. An entirely new OS patched on top of an old one is a lot more chances for things to go wrong, and sometimes things do go wrong. Yes, the upgrade process works fine for a lot of people. But not everyone, and that's a big risk that isn't sensible to take without a good reason to do so.
I never said devs only want their games to be playable on new computers. In fact, I said the opposite. Of course they will be playable on older systems, they just will not perform nearly as well due to not utilizing DX12.
As for the upgrade process. The great thing about windows 10 is that when you upgrade from a previous version, it allows you to do fresh installs as much as you want. So after the upgrade process if need be, you can just backup what you want and install it fresh. The OS is locked to your systems hardware configuration so there is no keys or anything like that you need to worry about. So ... not really an issue anymore.
Game companies can't just simply adopt a new graphics api the instant it comes out. In most cases they wait until they start making new games. So when a new API comes out, you really can't expect to see games start using it till anywhere between 3 - 5 years. Also, the improvements of a DX version greatly effects whether it's worth the move.
As for DX12 remaining exclusive to Windows 10, it's very possible. You seem to forget that windows 10 isn't like past versions of windows. They are trying to phase out past versions and that is why they are giving it away free to those who have past versions. Also they have already confirmed DX12 will not be on past versions. So unless they change their mind, it's not going to happen.
If Vulkan does well as it's to soon to tell as it's not out yet it maybe faster to see games under Vulkan alot more then on DX12.
Game companies can't just simply adopt a new graphics api the instant it comes out. In most cases they wait until they start making new games. So when a new API comes out, you really can't expect to see games start using it till anywhere between 3 - 5 years. Also, the improvements of a DX version greatly effects whether it's worth the move.
As for DX12 remaining exclusive to Windows 10, it's very possible. You seem to forget that windows 10 isn't like past versions of windows. They are trying to phase out past versions and that is why they are giving it away free to those who have past versions. Also they have already confirmed DX12 will not be on past versions. So unless they change their mind, it's not going to happen.
If Vulkan does well as it's to soon to tell as it's not out yet it maybe faster to see games under Vulkan alot more then on DX12.
Well, only the future will tell. Competition is always certainly nice to have.
Vulkan has the same problems as OpenGL. It's not integrated into Visual Studio, and it doesn't have a proper debugger like Visual Studio Graphics Diagnostics. It's going to have very limited use in game development, no more than OpenGL.
Vulkan has the same problems as OpenGL. It's not integrated into Visual Studio, and it doesn't have a proper debugger like Visual Studio Graphics Diagnostics. It's going to have very limited use in game development, no more than OpenGL.
You're kidding, right? If you think that are the problems of OpenGL... you can't be serious.
Vulkan has the same problems as OpenGL. It's not integrated into Visual Studio, and it doesn't have a proper debugger like Visual Studio Graphics Diagnostics. It's going to have very limited use in game development, no more than OpenGL.
It's not out yet to see what problems and road blocks it haves. But for the debug tool
It depends on how good they integrate into Visual Studio. Steven Klug from SoE talked about this at length. They liked the DirectX debugger and optimizer from Microsoft, and they liked Intel's optimizers, Parallel and Compose. They want those things as easily integrated into Visual Studio as possible. It's not that anyone forces these developers to use DirectX, it's just that it's much easier to write code for than relying on open source API that aren't integrated into Visual Studio.
It was never the differences in speed between graphical API, or loyalty to the windows platform, it has just always been easier to develop for DirectX since there's several powerful debugger and optimizer tools and it is so nicely integrated into Visual Studio, that choosing OpenGL for game development was kind of like shooting yourself in the foot. The developers that did use OpenGL for game development, like IDSoftware, did it more because of principle than anything else.
Vulkan isn't going to change anything I think. It's in the same boat is OpenGL.
Comments
There's an egocentric view, generally, from connoisseurs of, well, anything. Obviously we have refined understanding of the series of products, therefore people should like what we like. There's an odd, true axiom, however, "crap is king", and it has alot to do with targeting the pragmatic. If you can make something seem simple and popular, it sells very, very quickly. Complicated but powerful, not so much.
edit: incidentally, over the next two years, choice picks in my personal portfolio are big IT corporations. The service industry for all the dummies who still can't set a microwave clock is going to be big, almost as big as the elderly healthcare industry.
There are places where you need a PC but there's places where a cheap tablet will do. This is why we are seeing the increasing use of wi-fi and tablets, increasing tablet sales and a decline of PC sales. Businesses are also trying to get more out of their PC's. They want 5 years instead of 3 before replacing units. Everyone is trying to make savings where they can.
The market is saturated. The figures will keep dropping and finally they'll even out again. PC's will die and need to be replaced, there just won't be as many of them in use now that there are alternatives. This is just a changing in focus from PC's to smaller, cheaper hardware where appropriate.
I think it is a mix of those things, people who bought PCs just to be on facebook and browse the web have probably moved over to IPADs but to be fair were they mainly buying the cheap stuff anyways.
As for us PC gamers, I think that the modern CPUs actually last a year longer then 10 years ago. I used to change my GFX card every second year and CPU every third but it seems like it will be every fourth for CPU next time but will continue with the graphics card every 2 years. Games are more depending on GFX cards today then earlier and the speed of CPUs havn't increased as fast as it used to.
Also, I think more people have learned to upgrade their PC themselves today instead of just buying a new. A new SSD, GFX card and more memory makes PCs live longer and more and more people have got that by now.
Basically at this point, no reason to do a complete overhaul. I only purchase to run in maintenance mode. No hot new awesomeness coming out that my comp simply can not handle.
--> http://www.swtor.com/r/nBndbs <--
Several Unlocks and a few days game time to make the F2P considerably easier
Many people like their Windows version and keep it for other reasons then money, and they will probably wait with upgrading until they really are forced to. Heck, more then a few people still use XP.
So I think it will have an impact on sales.
Finally went with windows 7 and it's solid, never a problem. Never had any intention of using windows 8. I feel no need to upgrade to windows 10 and I won't bother unless I'm forced to. If games stop supporting windows 7 I'll have to do it but until them I'm sticking.
If it ain't broke, don't try and fix it.
There are also driver problems. The gamepad I used on my Windows 7 computer doesn't have a Windows 10 driver at all. The video card in my parents' Windows 7 computer doesn't have a Windows 10 driver at all, either. In their case, upgrading to Windows 10 would quite literally break the computer.
And even while many consumers can readily upgrade, it's much harder for businesses. Businesses generally don't want to spread their workstations among several different operating systems if they don't have to. Many businesses just upgraded from XP to Windows 7 in the last few years. Windows has traditionally been attractive for enterprise use precisely because Microsoft will maintain support for such old hardware and software for so many years. If Windows is going to stop doing that, then it becomes a lot less attractive to a lot of businesses.
This means those gamers who like to stick with old versions of windows, will be putting themselves at a very big disadvantage unless they upgrade.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
For drivers, you can make that case if building a new computer. But you can't make that case for Microsoft is pushing Windows 10 on people with older hardware for which Windows 10 drivers don't even exist. Even with a new computer, buying a new computer shouldn't require replacing peripherals because of missing drivers, which is the problem I ran into.
As for games, if DirectX 12 is Windows 10 only, that's likely to make Vulkan look awfully good by comparison. Vulkan isn't going to be restricted by OS. You can argue that not many gamers use Linux or Mac OS, but that's not the case for Windows 7.
The point is ... nothing is going to look better than windows 10 once most companies are using DX12 and graphic cards are taking full advantage of it's capabilities.
The switch right now at this moment may not be worth it to some. But as time goes on for pc gamers, it would be silly not to switch.
Also, the only way you can say DX12 is a marketing argument is if you don't actually understand it. Of course there are real performance improvements with DX12, last I remember close to a 30% - 50% increase in FPS, compared to DX11. It's not like this is all talk either, it's been well tested and in some cases the performance can even achieve well above the 30% - 50% mark, depending on the game engine.
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2900814/tested-directx-12s-potential-performance-leap-is-insane.html
Sure, there are not many games now at the moment taking advantage of this, but that is how it always is typically when a new DX comes out. However, as time goes on most games are very likely to use it as there is not a good reason not too.
Granted most devs are also likely to allow past versions of DX to work with their game, but you wouldn't be getting those huge performance improvements playing on an earlier version of windows.
You have to be friggin kidding me there's another thread about this...
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
1) was widely adopted, and
2) was only available on a new OS and not also on some older version of Windows that predated the version of DirectX by at least two years?
A cursory look at the history of DirectX says "never". DirectX 10 was Vista-exclusive, and scarcely used in spite of adding some really cool stuff. DirectX 11.1 was Windows 8-exclusive, and can you name a single game that used it, ever? A Google search turns up Battlefield 4 and nothing else, and it also had a nearly identical DirectX 11 version.
DirectX 11 was Windows 7-exclusive for all of five days before the Vista version was available. DirectX 9.0c released more than three years after Windows XP, but still was ported back as far as Windows 98.
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If you're building a new computer, sure, I'd go with Windows 10. But how many game developers want their game to only be playable by gamers who built a new computer within the last year? How about the last two years?
There's also the issue that, when you upgrade an OS, things can go wrong. Simple patching can break stuff, and service packs even more so. An entirely new OS patched on top of an old one is a lot more chances for things to go wrong, and sometimes things do go wrong. Yes, the upgrade process works fine for a lot of people. But not everyone, and that's a big risk that isn't sensible to take without a good reason to do so.
Here is a quote of what I said to begin with
I highlighted the important word here for you. I was never talking about "right now." Yet you replied to me in a manner acting like that is what I was saying.
Now here is quote from you.
Again, I was never talking about right now, so if anyone is guilty of not understanding, it's you. I am only adding onto what I originally said. You are the one going off and talking about "right now" when that was never even a part of my point.
If we are talking about right now, I freaking agree with you 100%. But that was never what I was talking about .. so you need to learn to read.
Yes ... it is totally you not understanding.
Game companies can't just simply adopt a new graphics api the instant it comes out. In most cases they wait until they start making new games. So when a new API comes out, you really can't expect to see games start using it till anywhere between 3 - 5 years. Also, the improvements of a DX version greatly effects whether it's worth the move.
As for DX12 remaining exclusive to Windows 10, it's very possible. You seem to forget that windows 10 isn't like past versions of windows. They are trying to phase out past versions and that is why they are giving it away free to those who have past versions. Also they have already confirmed DX12 will not be on past versions. So unless they change their mind, it's not going to happen.
I never said devs only want their games to be playable on new computers. In fact, I said the opposite. Of course they will be playable on older systems, they just will not perform nearly as well due to not utilizing DX12.
As for the upgrade process. The great thing about windows 10 is that when you upgrade from a previous version, it allows you to do fresh installs as much as you want. So after the upgrade process if need be, you can just backup what you want and install it fresh. The OS is locked to your systems hardware configuration so there is no keys or anything like that you need to worry about. So ... not really an issue anymore.
https://www.khronos.org/news/permalink/glave-demo-debug-tool-for-the-vulkan-api
As it's not out yet and if I remember Opengl have a debug tool as well if not then we won't be having the games that are out working under opengl.
It was never the differences in speed between graphical API, or loyalty to the windows platform, it has just always been easier to develop for DirectX since there's several powerful debugger and optimizer tools and it is so nicely integrated into Visual Studio, that choosing OpenGL for game development was kind of like shooting yourself in the foot. The developers that did use OpenGL for game development, like IDSoftware, did it more because of principle than anything else.
Vulkan isn't going to change anything I think. It's in the same boat is OpenGL.