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I just give up on gaming.

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  • khameleonkhameleon Member UncommonPosts: 486
    I found duelyst this week, one of the best games Ive ever played...  and its free. gaming is getting better and better!

    GAME TIL YOU DIE!!!!

  • ShaighShaigh Member EpicPosts: 2,150
    Sciela said:
    Okay, wow, I didn't expect this thread to blow up so much. I'll try to respond to everything, but as you can imagine, I won't be quoting a whole lot.
    Gaming didn't change, you just got older. Stuff that was fun when you were a kid suddenly aren't fun anymore. Stuff that used to challenge you doesn't anymore. Problem is that you need to accomplish something with your life instead of wasting it on gaming and other entertainment.

    If you can't find things in life that brings you joy its a good time to have a conversation with some adults. You might think you are smart but wisdom comes with age.
    Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 9,404
    Isn't it a tad too early in life to give up one of the more funner things in life ? I am going to be 60 in a few years and no one is taking away my games . I have such enthusiasm when I find a new game and half the fun is reading ,planning and building my character and I enjoy all this too much to give it up. You have to have the right attitude to enjoy anything in life and gaming is no different. Hopefully they will have to pry my cold ,dead hands from the keyboard to bury me. 
    Garrus Signature
  • DerrosDerros Member UncommonPosts: 1,216
    edited February 2016
    Eadan1 said:
    Derros said:
    Eadan1 said:
    What you claim to be your honest opinions doesn't refute my argument though. If people "playing" those games for "free" stopped, that would result in the "game" dying completely before long and result in no profits for the companies. They make money of people "playing" their "game" for "free".
    Why the quotes? they are playing a game at no cost to them, therefore free. That they are contributing to an envrionment that is profitable to the company making the game doesnt make it any less free to those not spending money. If this is the old "you are the product being sold" line, then, well, yeah, you arent paying for the game, fair trade imo.
    I am using quotes because I am not a in favor of words getting hijacked for personal interests. Is it fair trade when you add the facts like Riot and Valve think they have the right to punish people without giving any reason because people are "playing" their "game" for "free"? Do you think if "free players" were aware of the fact that these "games" are making all their money of "free players", these companies could get away with it?
    To your first point depends on the TOS, I dont play LoL or DOTA2, so I cant specifically comment on that. But I havent seen a whole lot of cries of totally free players being treated differently than those who had bought things. Even then, ive known people banned from say, GW2, WoW, FF14 with little to reason given or recourse. Paying doesnt inherently protect you either.

    To your second point, absolutely, but really what is there even to get away with? Letting you play without cost in order to boost the population and provide a positive gaming environment for those that are willing to pay some or even lots? Scandalous. Selling data for marketing? virtually everything you do electronically these days from credit cards to those discount cards, to visiting websites, to videos you watch contribute to that, its a lost battle imo. Gaming communities are populations of extremes, at least among those who actually speak the most and loudest. If they like a game, they will defend it to the death, if they hate it, it might as well be a xeno to a space marine, ignored at best, purged at worst.


  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,630
    Can I have your stuff?

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • Flyte27Flyte27 Member RarePosts: 4,574
    I generally agree with the OP, but I don't think it's greedy suits.  I think it's our culture in modern society.  This is what I was alluding to in the quests thread.  All you have to do is listen to the developers here and the way they talk about game creation.  They show little care for weather they think something is fun or not.  They just poor over statistics to find out what is the best way to get the most people playing.  It is simple a design based on making the most money.  This allows little room for a developer to actually make a game they personally care about because they are crafting it with the design of bringing in the most people possible.  This effects everything in modern society.  There is a right way to live based on statistics.  Then you have the other half who sound like psychiatrists trying to exploit their customers habits.  Basically we are having games made by people who are going to school and getting degrees in varying fields and doing things in a very robotic way to optimize money output.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 44,060
    I'm starting to think OP is yanking our chain.

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • xpsyncxpsync Member EpicPosts: 1,854
    Kyleran said:
    I'm starting to think OP is yanking our chain.
    Or the OP needs a seriously break from gaming all together.

    Trust me when you come back it's not the wonderful awe that you used to have but more about you simply accept, keep your options open, less critical about the way they are.

    For me i caved and tried Tera LOVE IT!!!, then caved and tried BnS LOVE IT TOO, hell i'm even doing pvp in BnS where before i flat out refused to pvp ever.

    My main grip between Tera and BnS is Tera i level ridiculously fast, then end up always out leveling content before i can enjoy any challenge within the content, where BnS so far has it perfectly in line, enjoying that far more as i have challenge. The great thing about pvp in BnS is it's how well you know your class, how skilled you are, maybe you should get into something like that?

    Finally, as mentioned gaming is big biz now, things ain't going to change anytime soon. A poor analogy but may help is to treat games like movies. How often do you go back to the movies every day and watch the same movie every day? Not usually, you watch the movie, enjoy it, wait or got to next movie.

    Treat games like that now, play it while your having fun, then wait or move to next game. We are saturated with movies, now we are saturated with games. Variety and options are not a problem, but when it comes to games it the root of the problem.

    It's not our fault, the industry made games like this so...
    My faith is my shield! - Turalyon 2022

    Your legend ends here and now! - (Battles Won Long Ago)

    Currently Playing; Dragonflight and SWG:L
  • epicpantzepicpantz Member UncommonPosts: 11
  • DerrosDerros Member UncommonPosts: 1,216
    edited February 2016
    Eadan1 said:
    Derros said:
    To your second point, absolutely, but really what is there even to get away with? Letting you play without cost in order to boost the population and provide a positive gaming environment for those that are willing to pay some or even lots? Scandalous. Selling data for marketing? virtually everything you do electronically these days from credit cards to those discount cards, to visiting websites, to videos you watch contribute to that, its a lost battle imo. Gaming communities are populations of extremes, at least among those who actually speak the most and loudest. If they like a game, they will defend it to the death, if they hate it, it might as well be a xeno to a space marine, ignored at best, purged at worst.
    But they are not letting you play without cost. They are letting you launch their software without cost. So the real value of their free sofware is that of any .exe file, which people wouldn't normally use because of virus threat. If more people were aware of the deception that's "F2P", they would react differently.

    Edit: Last time I bashed "F2P" model, I wasn't aware that this site indirectly makes money of it, so had to take abuse from posters backed by moderators. Before that happens again, PEACE. In case my messages don't get deleted, I suggest anyone reading them unless they want to stay ignorant about the "F2P" deception.

    I think we're arguing semantics at this point, what does play really mean, cost as an absolute vs monetarily. I think you're seeing a conspiracy where there isnt one, just business and marketing. As long as a company is upfront with what I can play without spending money, even if grinding is involved vs what I have to pay for I think I can make a value judgement about if I am enjoying things enough to invest that time or money. In the end though, thats every game paid or not, just in some, you've already paid the money in advance.

    As to the OP, you may have simply immersed yourself to deeply in gaming, that you have seen the tropes and mechanics so many times that you subconsciously spot them when you play the next game. I admit the most gaming ive done in recent years, is a few F2P games, simply because I cant afford new gen systems, a new computer, or new games as they release. I will say that there are solid games out there, from AAA to indie even with what I can play. 

    As to games in the past vs today? There may be something to be said about older design which was restrained by the physical media, so simpler design and a narrower focus was needed to fit alot of things on there. That narrowing of focus might be needed again.
  • VestigeGamerVestigeGamer Member UncommonPosts: 518
    Sure, I could shut up and move on, or adjust.  But why?  Video games used to give me the entertainment I enjoyed.  They no longer do.  Why?  Because my habits have not changed either, though you beat me on the Atari 2600.  Commodore 64 was my first computer.  I find it amazing that your habits have not changed when the games certainly and undeniably have.  But that's just me.
    That's actually very simple. Since my habits have not changed, I still love gaming. The acceptance or rejection of games today has more to do with my perception in general, not my experience.
      The whole 'glass is half full/empty' expression. It's irrelevant that I started with the Atari, or played on Commodore 64 myself later (still remember the game Barbarian, finishing opponents by lopping off their head with that little reptile coming in and kicking it off the screen). 
      I just know that if I were to only try to and recapture those feelings of great new experiences, I'd be miserable. I can no longer experience that first kiss, first car feel, first fight, etc. 
      I've seen my parent's generation sitting around and just complaining about the 'new' trends, technology, etc comparing to the days of old. I try not to do that too much, though it's hard at times. ;)
      It becomes less possible to discuss anything when someone (not implying you here either) makes blanket statements on society, stating it's all gone to shit and only the past is relevant. 
    OK, I get you now.  Your "gaming habits" being more broadly used than I did.

    It really is not about "capturing the past."  I still play old video games.  I still enjoy them.  There is no "awe and wonder" left in doing that.  What I miss most ion video games today is the possibility to fail, not meaning die.  Crafting is auto-success.  Spells always go off as planned.  Attacks always hit their targeted space.  There is no "contrast" to viodeo games (especially MMOs) anymore.  No ultra highs or lows, like there used to be.  This makes video games bland.  I have not felt like "rage quitting" a game in a decade or more.  Nothing catches me like that anymore.

    I am glad that many players have fun and enjoy games today.  I just wish players like me were not forgotten.  It is hard to accept that where I was once the target audience, I no longer matter, even though I have money to spend, too.  MORE money than most (over half, I guess) gamers spend today in MMOs.  I guess I can count on saving that video game money.

    VG

  • VestigeGamerVestigeGamer Member UncommonPosts: 518
    Shaigh said:
    Gaming didn't change, you just got older.
    This is wrong on so many levels.  Gaming DID change.  It changed to be "more efficient" to accommodate players who don't have the time to play.  There is no way in hell  games of 15 or more years ago are anything like games being made today.  If you think this is so, you have never played a game from the last millennium.

    VG

  • Flyte27Flyte27 Member RarePosts: 4,574
    Sure, I could shut up and move on, or adjust.  But why?  Video games used to give me the entertainment I enjoyed.  They no longer do.  Why?  Because my habits have not changed either, though you beat me on the Atari 2600.  Commodore 64 was my first computer.  I find it amazing that your habits have not changed when the games certainly and undeniably have.  But that's just me.
    That's actually very simple. Since my habits have not changed, I still love gaming. The acceptance or rejection of games today has more to do with my perception in general, not my experience.
      The whole 'glass is half full/empty' expression. It's irrelevant that I started with the Atari, or played on Commodore 64 myself later (still remember the game Barbarian, finishing opponents by lopping off their head with that little reptile coming in and kicking it off the screen). 
      I just know that if I were to only try to and recapture those feelings of great new experiences, I'd be miserable. I can no longer experience that first kiss, first car feel, first fight, etc. 
      I've seen my parent's generation sitting around and just complaining about the 'new' trends, technology, etc comparing to the days of old. I try not to do that too much, though it's hard at times. ;)
      It becomes less possible to discuss anything when someone (not implying you here either) makes blanket statements on society, stating it's all gone to shit and only the past is relevant. 
    OK, I get you now.  Your "gaming habits" being more broadly used than I did.

    It really is not about "capturing the past."  I still play old video games.  I still enjoy them.  There is no "awe and wonder" left in doing that.  What I miss most ion video games today is the possibility to fail, not meaning die.  Crafting is auto-success.  Spells always go off as planned.  Attacks always hit their targeted space.  There is no "contrast" to viodeo games (especially MMOs) anymore.  No ultra highs or lows, like there used to be.  This makes video games bland.  I have not felt like "rage quitting" a game in a decade or more.  Nothing catches me like that anymore.

    I am glad that many players have fun and enjoy games today.  I just wish players like me were not forgotten.  It is hard to accept that where I was once the target audience, I no longer matter, even though I have money to spend, too.  MORE money than most (over half, I guess) gamers spend today in MMOs.  I guess I can count on saving that video game money.
    Perhaps part of what is missing is that gamers were a niche audience and now almost everyone plays.  I think it's always nice to be a member of a small group that relates to one another.  Now gamers do not relate to each other due to there being different target audiences.  People also don't hold the same respect in the gaming community for gaming in general.  I think some of the old game mechanics and player attitudes that kept others out is why some liked them a lot.  Not everyone was willing to suffer through certain things.  Things will never go back to that way though.  The market is flooded and developers develop for the masses usually.  The niche group of gamers and their attitudes towards gaming has been mostly eclipsed by modern day gamers.
  • Jonnyp2Jonnyp2 Member UncommonPosts: 243
    Flyte27 said:
    Perhaps part of what is missing is that gamers were a niche audience and now almost everyone plays.  I think it's always nice to be a member of a small group that relates to one another.  Now gamers do not relate to each other due to there being different target audiences.  People also don't hold the same respect in the gaming community for gaming in general.  I think some of the old game mechanics and player attitudes that kept others out is why some liked them a lot.  Not everyone was willing to suffer through certain things.  Things will never go back to that way though.  The market is flooded and developers develop for the masses usually.  The niche group of gamers and their attitudes towards gaming has been mostly eclipsed by modern day gamers.
    Problem is most of these players won't make any concessions.  There have been quite a few mmos released lately that have at least made attempts to implement some niche systems, yet they get trashed when they fail to meet some unrealistic expectations.  
  • Flyte27Flyte27 Member RarePosts: 4,574
    Jonnyp2 said:
    Flyte27 said:
    Perhaps part of what is missing is that gamers were a niche audience and now almost everyone plays.  I think it's always nice to be a member of a small group that relates to one another.  Now gamers do not relate to each other due to there being different target audiences.  People also don't hold the same respect in the gaming community for gaming in general.  I think some of the old game mechanics and player attitudes that kept others out is why some liked them a lot.  Not everyone was willing to suffer through certain things.  Things will never go back to that way though.  The market is flooded and developers develop for the masses usually.  The niche group of gamers and their attitudes towards gaming has been mostly eclipsed by modern day gamers.
    Problem is most of these players won't make any concessions.  There have been quite a few mmos released lately that have at least made attempts to implement some niche systems, yet they get trashed when they fail to meet some unrealistic expectations.  
    That's what I mean.  I think most of the players who want an old game want the other gamers gone from existence.  Obviously that is not going to happen.  There is money being made in that market.  Players have changed (even the old ones like myself).  We can't go back to that time even if there is an old game that has similar systems.
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    Eadan1 said:

    "Free to play" isn't free though. It exists to decrease queue times for games like Hearthstone and mobas, and make the game more populated and therefore livelier in MMOs. You spend time which is a resource much more valuable than money in most cases.
    How about "financially free to play"? Now that would be accurate. Value of time is not the same for different people. 
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775


    I am glad that many players have fun and enjoy games today.  I just wish players like me were not forgotten.  It is hard to accept that where I was once the target audience, I no longer matter, even though I have money to spend, too.  MORE money than most (over half, I guess) gamers spend today in MMOs.  I guess I can count on saving that video game money.
    Are you a whale, and willing to spend hundreds of dollar on p2w items?

    We all want to matter, but the truth is, devs are not obligated to cater to you, or me. It is a free market. You can always choose some other entertainment. 


  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    Sciela said:
    Ever since I was little, like 3-4 years old, I've loved gaming. Even if I didn't know what was going on, I still had fun. The older I got, the more I fell in love with gaming, and it stuck with me throughout my entire life (22 now). But, lately I've been seeing a trend. It's been happening for 10-12 years or so now, but I just chose to pretend like it didn't exist. But, gaming was dying, and is now buried for years.

    Where before games were developed by people who loved what they did, now they're developed by greedy suits who really don't give a damn, so long as you shovel money into their mouths -- even companies that held on to what really mattered for so long eventually succumbed to their greed (Nintendo in particular). New companies pop up every now and then and develop a truly good game, but then the success gets to them, and they start down the wallet-humping path. Quality just isn't really all that important anymore, and that's apparent everywhere you look.
    ...
    Challenge. Remember that word? The current generation of gamers doesn't want to ever hear or see that word, and throws tantrums any time a game hints at it (thanks, society), so every game is built without challenge. Where before you'd wipe to a raid boss  for hours before figuring out how to beat it, now you just beat it straight up, 'cause that's fun apparently. Where before you had to actually be good at the game to progress, now you just win by default, since everyone is a winner. Where combat was fast-paced, mechanically intensive and required an amount of thought and effort, now we have flashy, brainless combat that, while fast-paced, is ultimately boring because it's just a spamfest.
    ....
    Sometimes, I hate having a brain. If I was a moron, all these games would be fun. You know, I used to dream of developing my own games, composing my own soundtracks, telling my own stories... I just don't know anymore. Childhood dreams are silly anyway. (shortened a bit for your convinence, read the OP post if you want it all)
    Yeah, the trend have been to make computer games easier and easier the last 15 years. Anyone not believing that should try play all 3 Diablo games at the same difficulty and compare.

    Trend do eventually turn around though and I have a feeling the crowd that enjoys easy games are more and more moving to mobile platforms so I think it is likely that the difficulty will go up at least somewhat in the nearest future. How much harder the next trends will be though is imposssible to tell right now.

    So if you want a hard time your choices right now are: to play games against other players, play old games or try another medium (like pen and paper RPGs). Or you can stay away from gaming altogether until the trend turn of course.

    Trends do always change eventually, but some stay really long.
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441

    10 years ago there was just as great or  small percentage of people making games that they thought would make then money as they are now.There was just great or small a percentage of people making games just for love. 

    Don't kid yourself.  People haven't changed. 
    10 years, yes. 20 years there were more and 30 years ago most games were actually made by really small companies that made fun games and got a bit of cash for it as a bonus. 

    I don't think OP meant 10 years ago, it was actually even worse back then, now at least there are crowdfunded games, 2006 was more or less ruled by EA, Valve, Ubi soft and Activision.
  • AntiquatedAntiquated Member RarePosts: 1,415
    Pfft. After they chased the roleplayers from roleplaying games, doom was always scripted.
  • DerrosDerros Member UncommonPosts: 1,216
    Eadan1 said:
    Their punishment and matchmaking systems aren't disclosed, and it would be naive to think that Valve doesn't use them to encourage profitable behaviour in users. For any uninformed reader, any user can report other users in a match. Valve collects this data, along with whatever data they can related to the match and users, and can decide to punish anyone at any time without a reason. So the free users, whose existence only serves to decrease queue times before games, will be subject to repeated punishments to modify their behaviour to be more profitable for Valve.

    Thats pretty much ALL online games where the company runs the servers, its not a strict F2P thing.
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    Eadan1 said:
    Derros said:

    I think we're arguing semantics at this point, what does play really mean, cost as an absolute vs monetarily. I think you're seeing a conspiracy where there isnt one, just business and marketing. As long as a company is upfront with what I can play without spending money, even if grinding is involved vs what I have to pay for I think I can make a value judgement about if I am enjoying things enough to invest that time or money. In the end though, thats every game paid or not, just in some, you've already paid the money in advance.

    Semantics is everything though. That's why some governments keep using the term terrorists to refer to civilians to look like heroes when they bomb them, instead of war criminals. And to think companies won't do all in their power to abuse people, especially gamers who are considered kids or adults acting like kids by the powers that be, would be the conspiracy not the other way around.

    That's why Valve made a documentary called "Free to Play". If they can force the notion that users are "playing for free", then they can use it to try to justify their disgusting abuse of their users. It's nothing like the rare cases of some people accidently or - even more rarely- negligently being mistreated in some non-cash shop games. It's punishing people consistently for the sake of profits while making them think otherwise. It's disgusting even by "F2P" standards.

    Their punishment and matchmaking systems aren't disclosed, and it would be naive to think that Valve doesn't use them to encourage profitable behaviour in users. For any uninformed reader, any user can report other users in a match. Valve collects this data, along with whatever data they can related to the match and users, and can decide to punish anyone at any time without a reason. So the free users, whose existence only serves to decrease queue times before games, will be subject to repeated punishments to modify their behaviour to be more profitable for Valve.

    Have you actually watched that documentary (which is all about the 2014 international DOTA2 tournament... and pretty good at that)? I have no idea what that has to do with the argument you're trying to make lol.

    Here's a link for you.. watch it free on youtube:  


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  • AxehiltAxehilt Member RarePosts: 10,504
    Sciela said:
    I've tried almost every MMO you can think of, trying to find a game to fill the void and a place to call home... but it just seems like none exist anymore. So I have single-player games that last me 8-10 hours on average, and League (which, honestly, is boring, but it's better than staring at wall and sleeping when I'm not working).
    So to summarize:
    • I haven't changed, that's bullshit!
    • Here's a list of 3rd person action games I used to play.
    • Now I play MMORPGs.
    You say you seek challenge:
    • What difficulty did you play Fallout 4 on?
    • What's the hardest raid content you've completed in MMORPGs?
    • Why did you switch to MMORPGs, when you listed zero RPGs as historically challenging games?
    I'm not totally against what you're saying, because I do feel MMORPGs would be way better off with a difficulty slider, to help early parts of the game be appropriately challenging for skilled players (naturally with rewards scaled up to match the tougher challenge.)  CoH provided that, but it's disappointingly missing from most games.  That said, you will eventually reach challenging content in the better MMORPGs.  

    But remember that RPGs have always allowed you to partially circumvent their challenge by progressing your character, so it won't ever be the ideal genre for a player who's really focused on challenge.  For that you'd be better off playing things like I Wanna Be The Guy, and similar games (mostly indie) where challenge is actually the focus of the game.

    "What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver

  • PepeqPepeq Member UncommonPosts: 1,977
    Axehilt said:
     I do feel MMORPGs would be way better off with a difficulty slider, to help early parts of the game be appropriately challenging for skilled players (naturally with rewards scaled up to match the tougher challenge.) 
    Now that's an interesting concept... a game that gets harder the better you get at playing it.

    You one-shot a rat... the next rat takes two-shots to kill it... the next dodges your attacks so you have to sneak up on it if you expect to kill it... the next one after that has a posse of friends that attack you once you kill it.

    Oh, that would be intriguing indeed! 
  • VestigeGamerVestigeGamer Member UncommonPosts: 518
    Axehilt said:
    Sciela said:
    I've tried almost every MMO you can think of, trying to find a game to fill the void and a place to call home... but it just seems like none exist anymore. So I have single-player games that last me 8-10 hours on average, and League (which, honestly, is boring, but it's better than staring at wall and sleeping when I'm not working).
    So to summarize:
    • I haven't changed, that's bullshit!
    • Here's a list of 3rd person action games I used to play.
    • Now I play MMORPGs.
    You say you seek challenge:
    • What difficulty did you play Fallout 4 on?
    • What's the hardest raid content you've completed in MMORPGs?
    • Why did you switch to MMORPGs, when you listed zero RPGs as historically challenging games?
    I'm not totally against what you're saying, because I do feel MMORPGs would be way better off with a difficulty slider, to help early parts of the game be appropriately challenging for skilled players (naturally with rewards scaled up to match the tougher challenge.)  CoH provided that, but it's disappointingly missing from most games.  That said, you will eventually reach challenging content in the better MMORPGs.  

    But remember that RPGs have always allowed you to partially circumvent their challenge by progressing your character, so it won't ever be the ideal genre for a player who's really focused on challenge.  For that you'd be better off playing things like I Wanna Be The Guy, and similar games (mostly indie) where challenge is actually the focus of the game.
    Well said, Axehilt.  Good observation.

    Difficulty sliders can be good.  EQ had one called "open world."  There were very few zones that were "level locked."  If a player was bored with the zones right outside of their starter town, they could move on to another zone that was harder.  Want a real challenge?  Move to a zone designed for 10 levels above your character.

    VG

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