I know, I know, I'm shutting up about it for awhile. This is a link to something I said 1.5 weeks ago, though. Not like I'm throwing down any of the new dirt I got today...
@Adjuvant1 ; Sorry, but I am having difficulty trying to determine what exactly it is that you are saying with this post and link. Would you mind clarifying?
The feature-incomplete pre-alpha everyone's playing right now, when they log in thinking they're playing "Star Citizen mmorpg", is a playtest for the now-disparate product Squadron 42. It will be launched in phases, with ( x ) number of missions (who knows? 15? 50? 70?), and subsequent installments will be paid DLC.
There is no persistent "world" yet, so there is no "Star Citizen mmorpg" yet, at all. All the world outside of that "box of space" is .txt files and concept art.
Thanks for clarification.
I guess I should legitimize my statement. This is from last night.
Just part of the orchestra, they offer their 'free preview' weekend then oh so coincidentally they make it so buy now or pay later for two games not one.
Response:They announced this was coming in advance. Choosing of the date was recent. I would say choosing for it to come after a free week is good marketing.
_______________________
Wasnt this thing supposed to be made for like 5 or 6 million? They have 18 times that much already where is it?
Response: As the funding changed so did the game.
_______________________
Stands to reason (yeah I know there is not of that when it comes to this fiasco) that a stand alone game would be much simpler and quicker to make. But thats the thing they really dont want to make anything they dont have to. Thats why they released the only demo they had and have seemingly spent what little money they had left making it look presentable and adding in a few 'updates' to make the people who really dont need convincing feel better about themselves.
Response: Supposition in complete on your part. You don't like it. Noted
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I cant wait for all these stars they paraded around coming out after all this crashes and burns and basically say they only had handshake deals and they never got a dime, or if they did it was a minimalist retaining fee.
Response: You actually think they haven't been paid?
________________________
But really is this surprising? And is it surprising people still defend it? The fans and brainwashed sheep that bought it are now all in and the website could go down, the servers could disappear and CR and company could vanish and I would say a majority of them would claim they were all just getting away from the negativity and really getting to work on the project.
Response: Ridiculous statement I could only hope is hyperbole. Because people have issue with some of the supposed evidence that is in truth nothing but supposition doesn't make them sheep. In fact one could argue those who believe unsubstantiated claims of the haters are in fact sheep. See this works both ways. Does nothing to further the conversation and is best left out.
________________________
The real problem now is this isnt going to be a spectacular cratering because the orbit on this game has been deteriorating for months now so when it finally does happen most people will have already seen it coming.
I truly begin to feel dismay for these "let us all split into two camps posts". We are a single community people. We are all online gamers. Why can't civil discourse be held? Why must you envision any who disagree with you as the other and only those who walk in lock step with you as worthy fellow travelers? This is not in any way good for debate and only serves to divide an already marginal community.
He pitched Squadron 42 from DAY 1 and as a 6 million dollar game ,not a 100 million dollar game.He has already LONG passed that 6 million expenditure and has not delivered on anything,so to think this is anything but mismanagement and wasted spending is ridiculous.
I am sure he is happy,he gets to play Mr.Hollywood producer and his wife gets her acting career paid for and supported with money he brings in.
Point being it doesn't matter WHEN he retracts his early sales pitch,this guy has not delivered on his promises and never will.Way over spending to build a 20 million dollar game ,you can hire ANY incompetent noob producer to pull that off.I am only assuming the finished product looks like a 20 mil game,he was pitching he could do it for 6 million,until he added a few hollywood stars and found some gimmicky ideas to up the budget.
What happens if one day he comes and says : Guys we failed, we can not deliver the game.
Will they have to return any money ?
I really wonder ? Will they be held responsible financially in any way ? Or will they just laugh and reminisce how they managed to live high life on 100 million dollars for several years ?
That Zano mini drone company was / is supposedly being investigated just for millions blown through. Not sure to what extent but saw it BBC news section on their site a lot. A kickstarter company blows $100+. Those headlines should be enough to get everybody's attention.
Yea. Probably they will be investigated.
But supposed they didnt really steal anything ( i dont believe they did or do ) just very stupidly wasted all the money.
They are completely free to leave, after burning 100+ million dollars
I'd go so far as to say there wouldn't even be an investigation if it crashed and burned. Their very prolific updates via their website and documents they have would likely be enough to show upfront that a good faith attempt was made to create the product. All you really need is to prove you tried without unrelated spending.
So yah, the greatest risk of crowdfunding is exactly what you said. No one gets anything back and they walk away.
They suddenly decided Star Citizen and Squadron 42 are now two separate games, although for years they claimed you are getting all with your preorder/backing ( and people preordered thinking they are getting both. )
I dont know how much more can they bitchslap their poor backers.
I know, I know, I'm shutting up about it for awhile. This is a link to something I said 1.5 weeks ago, though. Not like I'm throwing down any of the new dirt I got today...
@Adjuvant1 ; Sorry, but I am having difficulty trying to determine what exactly it is that you are saying with this post and link. Would you mind clarifying?
The feature-incomplete pre-alpha everyone's playing right now, when they log in thinking they're playing "Star Citizen mmorpg", is a playtest for the now-disparate product Squadron 42. It will be launched in phases, with ( x ) number of missions (who knows? 15? 50? 70?), and subsequent installments will be paid DLC.
There is no persistent "world" yet, so there is no "Star Citizen mmorpg" yet, at all. All the world outside of that "box of space" is .txt files and concept art.
Thanks for clarification.
I guess I should legitimize my statement. This is from last night.
They suddenly decided Star Citizen and Squadron 42 are now two separate games, although for years they claimed you are getting all with your preorder/backing ( and people preordered thinking they are getting both. )
I dont know how much more can they bitchslap their poor backers.
Haha lol. They are Masters of Bullshit :pleased:
Like it or not the changes only effect future backers and not present backers. This really is no different than changing the price of any other product.
I personally don't think they should split them but I can see reasons they may wish to. The largest one to me being that they wouldn't have to market multiplayer to persons only interested in a single player WC like game.
"....At the moment, backers will be able to get Squadron 42 and Star Citizen together for a limited time before February 14th for $45.00...."
The "limited time" lasted over 3 years ;-)
I love how you condemn any source that is not CIG when something bad is printed but when trying to defend CIG then any old blog will do. If I didnt know any better, I would think you are paid to promote this game.
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
I'd go so far as to say there wouldn't even be an investigation if it crashed and burned. Their very prolific updates via their website and documents they have would likely be enough to show upfront that a good faith attempt was made to create the product. All you really need is to prove you tried without unrelated spending.
So yah, the greatest risk of crowdfunding is exactly what you said. No one gets anything back and they walk away.
(Note: I don't believe we won't get a game.)
Their updates don't tell us whether they've used 100% of money to the game, or 75% of money to the game and 25% of money to their own pockets.
There will be an investigation if Star Citizen fails to deliver. It's enough money that some official would take it up and investigate.
But suppose they just burn the 100+ million dollars with bad decisions, they are free to leave and even keep their enormous salaries as executives, as long as it's all spent to making the game.
"....At the moment, backers will be able to get Squadron 42 and Star Citizen together for a limited time before February 14th for $45.00...."
The "limited time" lasted over 3 years ;-)
I love how you condemn any source that is not CIG when something bad is printed but when trying to defend CIG then any old blog will do. If I didnt know any better, I would think you are paid to promote this game.
I understand your point but just in case you wanted the official link here it is.
I'd go so far as to say there wouldn't even be an investigation if it crashed and burned. Their very prolific updates via their website and documents they have would likely be enough to show upfront that a good faith attempt was made to create the product. All you really need is to prove you tried without unrelated spending.
So yah, the greatest risk of crowdfunding is exactly what you said. No one gets anything back and they walk away.
(Note: I don't believe we won't get a game.)
Their updates don't tell us whether they've used 100% of money to the game, or 75% of money to the game and 25% of money to their own pockets.
There will be an investigation if Star Citizen fails to deliver. It's enough money that some official would take it up and investigate.
But suppose they just burn the 100+ million dollars with bad decisions, they are free to leave and even keep their enormous salaries as executives, as long as it's all spent to making the game.
Your assumption that an investigation would occur infers that their final accounting would be rejected. I believe if their, let us call it paperwork for lack of a better term" was solid an investigation would be a waste of taxpayers money.
Edit: I think perhaps this all comes down to a miscommunication. I am certain their filing would be Reviewed but only on a rejection would it then lead to an investigation. Hope that clarifies.
They capped cash requirement to make the game and ALL STRETCH GOALS at $65,000,000.
They stated stretch goals would not affect development of SC.
All we have seen so far, is that funding is well over the required amount, and the game as described including all stretch goals is not even close to being ready, having missed pretty much every deadline they set themselves.
A creative person is motivated by the desire to achieve, not the desire to beat others.
my understsnding for the past year or more is that they are two different games and I dont really watch the development on this game on a regular baises but rahter spurts
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
They capped cash requirement to make the game and ALL STRETCH GOALS at $65,000,000.
They stated stretch goals would not affect development of SC.
All we have seen so far, is that funding is well over the required amount, and the game as described including all stretch goals is not even close to being ready, having missed pretty much every deadline they set themselves.
My response statement was in the context of a response to his point. The current game underdevelopment was not the 6 million dollar game they referred to in their post.
You are, of course, free to make an argument about exceeding the stretch goal and are welcome to do so.
They capped cash requirement to make the game and ALL STRETCH GOALS at $65,000,000.
They stated stretch goals would not affect development of SC.
All we have seen so far, is that funding is well over the required amount, and the game as described including all stretch goals is not even close to being ready, having missed pretty much every deadline they set themselves.
My response statement was in the context of a response to his point. The current game underdevelopment was not the 6 million dollar game they referred to in their post.
You are, of course, free to make an argument about exceeding the stretch goal and are welcome to do so.
of course its not. How in the world could that possibly even work if you modify plans because of more money.
Its like 'dude ? why is there a 100sq foot shack with no facilities in the living room of this manision?' because it was part of the orginal kickstarter..
I gotta say the majority of things I read about this game on forums dosent even make sense
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
He pitched Squadron 42 from DAY 1 and as a 6 million dollar game ,not a 100 million dollar game.He has already LONG passed that 6 million expenditure and has not delivered on anything,so to think this is anything but mismanagement and wasted spending is ridiculous.
I am sure he is happy,he gets to play Mr.Hollywood producer and his wife gets her acting career paid for and supported with money he brings in.
Point being it doesn't matter WHEN he retracts his early sales pitch,this guy has not delivered on his promises and never will.Way over spending to build a 20 million dollar game ,you can hire ANY incompetent noob producer to pull that off.I am only assuming the finished product looks like a 20 mil game,he was pitching he could do it for 6 million,until he added a few hollywood stars and found some gimmicky ideas to up the budget.
What happens if one day he comes and says : Guys we failed, we can not deliver the game.
Will they have to return any money ?
I really wonder ? Will they be held responsible financially in any way ? Or will they just laugh and reminisce how they managed to live high life on 100 million dollars for several years ?
That Zano mini drone company was / is supposedly being investigated just for millions blown through. Not sure to what extent but saw it BBC news section on their site a lot. A kickstarter company blows $100+. Those headlines should be enough to get everybody's attention.
Yea. Probably they will be investigated.
But supposed they didnt really steal anything ( i dont believe they did or do ) just very stupidly wasted all the money.
They are completely free to leave, after burning 100+ million dollars
I wouldn't know. I wouldn't guess. I think it's common sense though that if the day comes. Headlines will be huge. It'll get lots of attention and people will want answers. I don't wish it ill on the company. I don't care. I have not given them anything. So it's not my problem. If they deliver something I like. I'll buy it when it's finished.
My response statement was in the context of a response to his point. The current game underdevelopment was not the 6 million dollar game they referred to in their post.
You are, of course, free to make an argument about exceeding the stretch goal and are welcome to do so.
of course its not. How in the world could that possibly even work if you modify plans because of more money.
I gotta say the majority of things I read about this game on forums dosent even make sense
You'd have to ask them because I become equally baffled by it.
I wouldn't know. I wouldn't guess. I think it's common sense though that if the day comes. Headlines will be huge. It'll get lots of attention and people will want answers. I don't wish it ill on the company. I don't care. I have not given them anything. So it's not my problem. If they deliver something I like. I'll buy it when it's finished.
Oh should that event come to pass it will certainly be newsworthy.
I think it's kind of funny that most of the upset comments here are from people that:
A) Aren't backers
Never had any intention of becoming a backer
C) Have no real interest in game
D) Had no plans to buy it even after release
Drama can be fun sometimes. *grabs a chair and popcorn* So someone please explain why I should be upset about this? Oh I should mention I'm a SC backer, have been since the earliest days of the KS. I'm neither losing or gaining anything from this. Ok, you can start now.
In War - Victory. In Peace - Vigilance. In Death - Sacrifice.
I think it's kind of funny that most of the upset comments here are from people that:
A) Aren't backers
Never had any intention of becoming a backer
C) Have no real interest in game
D) Had no plans to buy it even after release
Drama can be fun sometimes. *grabs a chair and popcorn* So someone please explain why I should be upset about this? Oh I should mention I'm a SC backer, have been since the earliest days of the KS. I'm neither losing or gaining anything from this. Ok, you can start now.
I don't know but there does seem to be a fair amount of aggression from the "self appointed cabal of defenders of other persons money" splinter group among them.
Can't wait for the next announcement sometime after Feb 14th when new patronage dries up "For a limited time only, SQ42 included!"
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
They capped cash requirement to make the game and ALL STRETCH GOALS at $65,000,000.
They stated stretch goals would not affect development of SC.
All we have seen so far, is that funding is well over the required amount, and the game as described including all stretch goals is not even close to being ready, having missed pretty much every deadline they set themselves.
If they all current backers get Squadron 42, it does not matter if they split it or not. You still get it, Squadron 42 is still planted in the SC universe, in fact it's the precursor to SC.
Also, they absolutely inferred that stretch goals would affect SC development, why would you even make such a claim?
So you're main issue is delays, delays that are inevitable in any game development?
my understsnding for the past year or more is that they are two different games and I dont really watch the development on this game on a regular baises but rahter spurts
Your understanding is correct.
SQ42 is one of the 2 major components the other one being the PU.
SQ42 is a single player space opera the likes of wing commander featuring a story line and 40+ missions. [mod edit]
People not interested in the multiplayer, PU aspect can buy SQ42 and experience a single player game like WC, Freespace etc..
Backers till Feb 2016 will have access to both SQ42 and the multiplayer game. Afterwards one will choose what to buy.
Finally, this split was announced a few months back.. it's old news yet some persons here pretend to be taken by surprise and when it comes to SC they loose the ability to do a basic search for the relevant info.
It doesn't have a separate website, it's just a different page on the same domain. And to be fair, the Squadron42 page only showed up a couple of weeks ago so it's quite understandable that people might have not realised their intention with the 2 games.
The split was briefly mentioned in October but not taken all that seriously because there was nothing else said until December's livestream and even then there were no blurbs pushed out to the media. That's only happened in the last few days, so unless you're hanging on CIG's rumour-mill it's quite easy to not see these things until main news sites get ahold of them.
Comments
http://www twitch.tv/supremetokyo/v/38887857
around 30:35
edit : experienced technical difficulty. put a " . " between www and twitch.
We are a single community people.
We are all online gamers.
Why can't civil discourse be held?
Why must you envision any who disagree with you as the other and only those who walk in lock step with you as worthy fellow travelers?
This is not in any way good for debate and only serves to divide an already marginal community.
But supposed they didnt really steal anything ( i dont believe they did or do ) just very stupidly wasted all the money.
They are completely free to leave, after burning 100+ million dollars
I'd go so far as to say there wouldn't even be an investigation if it crashed and burned.
Their very prolific updates via their website and documents they have would likely be enough to show upfront that a good faith attempt was made to create the product.
All you really need is to prove you tried without unrelated spending.
So yah, the greatest risk of crowdfunding is exactly what you said. No one gets anything back and they walk away.
(Note: I don't believe we won't get a game.)
(Retired)- Anarchy Online/Ultima Online/DAoC/Horizonsz/EQ2/SWG/AC1&2/L2/SoR/WoW/TMO/Requiem/Atlantica Online/Manibogi/Rift+(SL)/Lol/Hon/SWTOR/Wakfu/Champions Online/GW/Lotr/CO/TcoS/Tabula Rasa/Meridian 59/Vanguard/Shadowbane/Fury/SotW/Dreamlords/HGL/RoM/DDO/FFXI/Aoc/Eve/Warhammer Online/Gw2/TSW/Tera/Defiance/STO/AoW/DE/Firefall/Darkfall/Neverwinter/PS2/ESO/FF14/Archeage/Gw2
This really is no different than changing the price of any other product.
I personally don't think they should split them but I can see reasons they may wish to. The largest one to me being that they wouldn't have to market multiplayer to persons only interested in a single player WC like game.
There will be an investigation if Star Citizen fails to deliver. It's enough money that some official would take it up and investigate.
But suppose they just burn the 100+ million dollars with bad decisions, they are free to leave and even keep their enormous salaries as executives, as long as it's all spent to making the game.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/15178-Roundup-Free-Fly-212-Patch-And-Other-Updates
I believe if their, let us call it paperwork for lack of a better term" was solid an investigation would be a waste of taxpayers money.
Edit: I think perhaps this all comes down to a miscommunication. I am certain their filing would be Reviewed but only on a rejection would it then lead to an investigation.
Hope that clarifies.
They capped cash requirement to make the game and ALL STRETCH GOALS at $65,000,000.
They stated stretch goals would not affect development of SC.
All we have seen so far, is that funding is well over the required amount, and the game as described including all stretch goals is not even close to being ready, having missed pretty much every deadline they set themselves.
A creative person is motivated by the desire to achieve, not the desire to beat others.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
You are, of course, free to make an argument about exceeding the stretch goal and are welcome to do so.
Its like 'dude ? why is there a 100sq foot shack with no facilities in the living room of this manision?'
because it was part of the orginal kickstarter..
I gotta say the majority of things I read about this game on forums dosent even make sense
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Sensible purchase decision as well.
A) Aren't backers
C) Have no real interest in game
D) Had no plans to buy it even after release
Drama can be fun sometimes. *grabs a chair and popcorn* So someone please explain why I should be upset about this? Oh I should mention I'm a SC backer, have been since the earliest days of the KS. I'm neither losing or gaining anything from this. Ok, you can start now.
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Also, they absolutely inferred that stretch goals would affect SC development, why would you even make such a claim?
So you're main issue is delays, delays that are inevitable in any game development?
SQ42 is one of the 2 major components the other one being the PU.
SQ42 is a single player space opera the likes of wing commander featuring a story line and 40+ missions. [mod edit]
People not interested in the multiplayer, PU aspect can buy SQ42 and experience a single player game like WC, Freespace etc..
Backers till Feb 2016 will have access to both SQ42 and the multiplayer game. Afterwards one will choose what to buy.
Finally, this split was announced a few months back.. it's old news yet some persons here pretend to be taken by surprise and when it comes to SC they loose the ability to do a basic search for the relevant info.
And to be fair, the Squadron42 page only showed up a couple of weeks ago so it's quite understandable that people might have not realised their intention with the 2 games.
The split was briefly mentioned in October but not taken all that seriously because there was nothing else said until December's livestream and even then there were no blurbs pushed out to the media. That's only happened in the last few days, so unless you're hanging on CIG's rumour-mill it's quite easy to not see these things until main news sites get ahold of them.