Charge Back and Refunds

Phry

BeansnBread said:

They said 2016 about 6 months ago or so. But... well, we'll see I guess.

It will be interesting to see what excuses emerge when people are asking the same questions, next year.

Babuinix

There's no need to rush the game, 6 months , 12 months, 24 months more. If it's for the better why not. Lesser games have been made in more time with bigger budgets from bigger company's.

BeansnBread

why not 100 years? It'll be REALLY awesome then!

rpmcmurphy

Babuinix said:

Pristine showroom simulator lol? It's fealing gritty already in the places they want it to feel gritty. ArcCorp dark alleys, low-level hangar, pirate hangar etc. The pristine feel you have now in Crusader and some ArcCorp areas is ofc intended, as it is a "civilized space". They will contrast with the uncivilized space aka pirate locations. Nyx and other pirate bases in asteroids feel way darker and grittier.

That's just a concept art ripoff from BladeRunner, let's have some real game screenshots please.

I just prefer the grungy feel for the majority of the game, that's my personal opinion. I'm not a fan of ultra shiny ships, preppy clothing, shniy glass ArcCorp, shiny industrial Port Olisar and so on. It's plastic, like Ken and Barbie go to space or some crap.

Babuinix

rpmcmurphy said:

That's just a concept art ripoff from BladeRunner, let's have some real game screenshots please.

I just prefer the grungy feel for the majority of the game, that's my personal opinion. I'm not a fan of ultra shiny ships, preppy clothing, shniy glass ArcCorp, shiny industrial Port Olisar and so on. It's plastic, like Ken and Barbie go to space or some crap.

That's a concept art of Levsky in Nyx.  A "outcast" hideout populated by shady people and pirates alike. Read all about it here: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/spectrum-dispatch/14953-Observist-Dark-Levski-Nyx



I guess you never actually went to the inalpha places that are meant to be gritty yet.




etc

rpmcmurphy

Yes I know it's concept art from Nyx, I'm just having a laugh because it has a BladeRunner vibe and because CIG have been caught appropriating various bits of artwork in their advertising material...
Heh, Nyx coming soon (dated Aug 2015) I'd hate to see what delay means if that's soon

Anyhow, I'm obviously not getting my point across.
I don't care that there are areas that are gritty. What I care about is that the overall aesthetic of the original pitch trailer and what we have now is quite different. The visual style they were originally going for is much more pleasing to me than the visual style we have now.

Does that explain it a bit better?

Babuinix

So what does it matter anyway? You were generalising in categorizing the game by being Pristine showroom simulator lol. The original trailer didn't have pbr or enhanced lightning or as good assets has they have now. The visual style is the same but with enhanced tech as it came from the same director aka Chris Roberts. We haven't seen much of the assets shown in the pitch video trailer except the vandul ships and the hornet who look way better now than before.

Erillion

rpmcmurphy said:

Yes I know it's concept art from Nyx, I'm just having a laugh because it has a BladeRunner vibe and because CIG have been caught appropriating various bits of artwork in their advertising material...
Heh, Nyx coming soon (dated Aug 2015) I'd hate to see what delay means if that's soon

Anyhow, I'm obviously not getting my point across.
I don't care that there are areas that are gritty. What I care about is that the overall aesthetic of the original pitch trailer and what we have now is quite different. The visual style they were originally going for is much more pleasing to me than the visual style we have now.

Does that explain it a bit better?

I think there is a misunderstanding. 

There will be several "aesthetic" looks used in this game. Not one overall.

You will have the clean, civilian feeling of ports like Port Olisar and the bigger spaceports on the prime planets like Terra.

You will have the utilitarian, busy feeling of military installations and ships.

You will have the dark, dingy and gritty feeling of pirate ports and backwater colonies.

Add to that the distinct corporate lines and identities of the various ship and equipment manufacturers.

Stir the pot with a touch of "Star Wars" esque "used item" feeling.


You may have liked a specific look and i guess that one will ALSO be in the game. But it will not be the only one.


Have fun

rpmcmurphy

I sincerely hope it does not have different aesthetic styles in the game, that will be a guaranteed mistake.

Using an aesthetic style is to ensure a consistency across all areas of the game, it controls the overall theming regardless of localised architecture or fashion or whatever otherwise it would be jarring as hell traversing from one area to the other.

For example, if you were reading a Batman comic, you get to a point where Bruce goes out of town to visit someone and the artwork changes to the aesthetic that's used in Spiderman, it would be extremely weird.

rpmcmurphy

Babuinix said:

So what does it matter anyway? You were generalising in categorizing the game by being Pristine showroom simulator lol. The original trailer didn't have pbr or enhanced lightning or as good assets has they have now. The visual style is the same but with enhanced tech as it came from the same director aka Chris Roberts. We haven't seen much of the assets shown in the pitch video trailer except the vandul ships and the hornet who look way better now than before.

I don't see the problem. We were discussing things regarding Star Citizen and I simply said I prefer the stylisation used in the original trailer, granted I might have used some additional words, ie Plastic Ken & Barbie In Space MMO, pristine showroom simulator, Minority Reports Meets World of Warcraft In Space and so on but that was purely for entertainment purposes and only aimed at highlighting how much I preferred the original style

rpmcmurphy

MisterZebub said:

Certainly no need to rush so much they release a half finished game, which seems to be what many AAA game companies are doing these days. However any project that seems to hang in limbo without a clear idea of when it will release is going to cause some people a certain amount of anxiety. Said anxiety will be much much worse when its being felt by people who backed your project, you know actually became the people that paid your fucking salary.

With the unexpected boon of backer cash the game scope was able to grow exponentially as well. The problem is, it doesn't feel like CR or CIG have a bastard clue that so did the importance of their responsibility to get this project to a launch date in a reasonable fucking amount of time. 

I think this is why people were thrown so much by the MVP comment and the lack of clarity around what the MVP will consist of.

The official line upto that point was

Star Citizen is a project for gamers, by gamers. By financing the project using crowd funding, our team is not beholden to a publisher who would insist we ship a game unfinished, de-featured or broken to meet a particular schedule.

making some allowances for certain stretch goals obviously, but even still.

mr1602

MisterZebub said:

And yet what have we heard from the Escapist since then? Not one single fucking peep. So I'm guessing the people who actually know their legal shit at the Escapist saw that warning as quite dangerous and chose the better part of valor and went and hid under their desks hoping the whole issue would go away.

If 'The Escapists' did what you claim they did, they would have retracted the article.
The fact that they didn't and was awarded for their work is opposite to what you are claiming.

mr1602

Regarding the 'MVP', I can state that VISA/MC (as of 1 to 120 days ago) still considered the state of Star Citizen as 'undelivered' as they are still accepting charge backs.

fatears

MisterZebub said:

mr1602 said:

MisterZebub said:

And yet what have we heard from the Escapist since then? Not one single fucking peep. So I'm guessing the people who actually know their legal shit at the Escapist saw that warning as quite dangerous and chose the better part of valor and went and hid under their desks hoping the whole issue would go away.

If 'The Escapists' did what you claim they did, they would have retracted the article.
The fact that they didn't and was awarded for their work is opposite to what you are claiming.

No they wouldn't have as that would have been an outright admission of guilt. Instead they buried any further articles and left the article writer and her credibility twisting in the wind.

My original point was that CIG do not understand libel. Stop raising strawmen. 

CIG threatened legal action over an article printed in good faith, with corroborating direct sources... conclusion, CIG do not understand libel. It is that simple. 

rpmcmurphy

Would an NDA really cover things like staff / boss behaviour in the workplace?
I can see it being used to protect trade secrets and the like but protecting what is essentially gossip?
I just can't see that.

fatears

MisterZebub said:

fatears said:

MisterZebub said:

mr1602 said:

MisterZebub said:

And yet what have we heard from the Escapist since then? Not one single fucking peep. So I'm guessing the people who actually know their legal shit at the Escapist saw that warning as quite dangerous and chose the better part of valor and went and hid under their desks hoping the whole issue would go away.

If 'The Escapists' did what you claim they did, they would have retracted the article.
The fact that they didn't and was awarded for their work is opposite to what you are claiming.

No they wouldn't have as that would have been an outright admission of guilt. Instead they buried any further articles and left the article writer and her credibility twisting in the wind.

My original point was that CIG do not understand libel. Stop raising strawmen. 

CIG threatened legal action over an article printed in good faith, with corroborating direct sources... conclusion, CIG do not understand libel. It is that simple. 

Some supposed sources whom still worked for CIG and were still bound by an NDA agreement. Not a strawman at all. 

If they were "supposed sources" and by implication unverified, then CIG would have been able to act on their threat to sue. You are contradicting yourself. 

fatears

MisterZebub said:

rpmcmurphy said:

Would an NDA really cover things like staff / boss behaviour in the workplace?
I can see it being used to protect trade secrets and the like but protecting what is essentially gossip?
I just can't see that.

It all depends on what the agreement considers to be confidential information. Normally financial, and inner office workings such as HR disputes are considered to be confidential, especially if they are talking to a member of the press. And usually talking to the press outside official channels is also a big no no. Heck I knew a guy who got fired because his wife who worked in HR had come to him for advice on a dispute, and he in turn discussed it with another coworker, who then spread it all over the fucking job site. Since it was a potential sexual harassment issue that got the company sued.

fatears said: 

If they were "supposed sources" and by implication unverified, then CIG would have been able to act on their threat to sue. You are contradicting yourself. 

Wrong again my friend. They are supposed sources because their names haven't been released by the Escapist journalist. She claims she vetted them as legitimate, so as of now we have only her word on the matter. And no CIG would not have continued with a lawsuit. What part of "Cease and Desist" do you not understand? If the recipient complies with a letter of cease and desist, which the Escapist obviously has, there is no reason to waste the time or money on a lawsuit.

CIG required a retraction under the threat of legal action; The Escapist stood by their article. CIG did not take said legal action. 

I assume you have no background in law, but choose to debate it regardless. 

rpmcmurphy

MisterZebub said:

Wrong again my friend. They are supposed sources because their names haven't been released by the Escapist journalist. She claims she vetted them as legitimate, so as of now we have only her word on the matter. And no CIG would not have continued with a lawsuit. What part of "Cease and Desist" do you not understand? If the recipient complies with a letter of cease and desist, which the Escapist obviously has, there is no reason to waste the time or money on a lawsuit.

I have to disagree with this. You say that it's only her word but she was backed by John Keefer (Managing Editor), the Escapists' legal department etc. They must have had confidence in their position.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/14727-The-Escapist-Explains-Its-Star-Citizen-Sources-Vetting-and-Respo

I also believe they have to protect their sources as support for whistleblowers is something I view as really important. If you take away anonymization people would simply be too scared to speak out, enabling bad or illegal behaviour to continue unchecked.
In this situation they detailed their due diligence, a bit of it was ropey but on the whole it sounds like they did what was expected to ensure the legitimacy of the statements. There's really very little else they could have done.

GeezerGamer

Phry said:

BeansnBread said:

They said 2016 about 6 months ago or so. But... well, we'll see I guess.

It will be interesting to see what excuses emerge when people are asking the same questions, next year.

It'll be the same....
Ad-Homs, and "Haters gonna hate"

Octagon7711

It is strange how they never did a followup saying that they had been invited to tour the studio.

Babuinix

I don't reall y know what happened besides the fact that CIG never adressed The Escapist again and the Escapist never ever published another piece about Star Citizen as a game or as a Game Company, my theory is that they were shut-down by a lawsuit, mutual agreement or something alike. All I know is that Im glad that rubbish was put down for good.

jcrg99

Babuinix said:

I don't reall y know what happened besides the fact that CIG never adressed The Escapist again and the Escapist never ever published another piece about Star Citizen as a game or as a Game Company, my theory is that they were shut-down by a lawsuit, mutual agreement or something alike. All I know is that Im glad that rubbish was put down for good.

Its not like The Escapist was reporting on Star Citizen regularly, before those articles. Your theory does not sound consistent enough. Sorry.

Babuinix

Hahaha right:

- http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/136143-Star-Citizen-Too-Much-Game-for-Consoles-to-Handle

- http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/136678-Star-Citizen-Hits-49-Million-Still-Needs-Crowdfunding-Support

- http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/137807-Star-Citizen-Most-Crowdfunded-Project-Ever-at-55-Million

- http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/137764-Star-Citizen-LEGO-Ideas-Campaign-Reaches-10-000-Support#&gid=gallery_3294&pid=1

- http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/138339-Star-Citizen-FPS-Module-Revealed#&gid=gallery_3439&pid=1

- http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/140085-Star-Citizen-to-be-Over-100-GB-Have-6-GB-Patches

Sorry

Kefo

Babuinix said:

I don't reall y know what happened besides the fact that CIG never adressed The Escapist again and the Escapist never ever published another piece about Star Citizen as a game or as a Game Company, my theory is that they were shut-down by a lawsuit, mutual agreement or something alike. All I know is that Im glad that rubbish was put down for good.

If there was a lawsuit and CIG won chances are they would have demanded that the article be retracted. Since it's still up I would assume that CIG's bark is worse than its bite

Babuinix

Bark or bite, it did shut Escapist's dirty mouth.