I can understand why someone would want to make the comparison, It's because of the massive seamless world. But besides that massive seamless world the two games really don't share too much in common.
Not only The massive open world.. (however this is offcourse huge part of my feeling)
But also the depth of the non combat systems, trading and crafting, there is a small RTS game inside BDO... which has the same depth as Vanguard crafting and diplomacy.. espescially when you compare that with the knowledge system and influencing NPC to give you pieces of story and quests or even buffs.
Anyway, despite being a sandbox game, there is more depth in this game then most any (themepark) game released since Vanguard.
Only if you rate a game by its outside shell, you will not see what this game has in common with Vanguard... i never said it is Vanguard2, i only said there is some depth in this game that reminds me of vanguard.
Luckilly this game got finished before release and is not overly bugged.. (yeah i know sounds harsh towards a great game like vanguard) But then, the orriginal Devs never got the chance to finish the game.. I would have loved to see a finished version of Vanguard.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
I wont play BDO simply because of the class system being gender restricted and the combat was so incredibly easy. I would gather packs of mobs and destroy them with no sense of danger what so ever. I got to 15 in a matter of minutes, no joke. Instead of questing, I would grind on mobs(which I DO enjoy) and it was so quick it felt like there was no challenge to the game, that paired with easy mobs made it feel like I was playing another form of Diablo. Just hack an slash, kill kill kill, rinse repeat with zero challenge. The other part is the lack of any group content and structure. With zero healers, classes that generate threat, I won't play it. I had that mess with other action combat oriented games and won't do it again.
I can understand why someone would want to make the comparison, It's because of the massive seamless world. But besides that massive seamless world the two games really don't share too much in common.
Not only The massive open world.. (however this is offcourse huge part of my feeling)
But also the depth of the non combat systems, trading and crafting, there is a small RTS game inside BDO... which has the same depth as Vanguard crafting and diplomacy.. espescially when you compare that with the knowledge system and influencing NPC to give you pieces of story and quests or even buffs.
Anyway, despite being a sandbox game, there is more depth in this game then most any (themepark) game released since Vanguard.
Only if you rate a game by its outside shell, you will not see what this game has in common with Vanguard... i never said it is Vanguard2, i only said there is some depth in this game that reminds me of vanguard.
Luckilly this game got finished before release and is not overly bugged.. (yeah i know sounds harsh towards a great game like vanguard) But then, the orriginal Devs never got the chance to finish the game.. I would have loved to see a finished version of Vanguard.
I think the scope of the two games is something that is definitely comparable. The way they go about it, is very much different.
Strange thing, this is the first game that gives me that openworld feel eversince Vanguard.. The urge to go out and discover, the sandboxy feel, the knowledge system that has some functionallity of the diplomacy system in Vanguard. A crafting system with actuall depth.. And some other side systems like the trading..
An MMO is much much more then just Combat, and thats where this is the first AAA game since the release of Vanguard that actually emphasis that part of the MMO...
I hear you on this and feel the same.
I remember when this site was crying for games like this.
The NPC amity influence mini-game is reminiscent of Vanguard diplomacy... other than that, I don't see it /shrug
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Strange thing, this is the first game that gives me that openworld feel eversince Vanguard.. The urge to go out and discover, the sandboxy feel, the knowledge system that has some functionallity of the diplomacy system in Vanguard. A crafting system with actuall depth.. And some other side systems like the trading..
An MMO is much much more then just Combat, and thats where this is the first AAA game since the release of Vanguard that actually emphasis that part of the MMO...
I hear you on this and feel the same.
I remember when this site was crying for games like this.
I don't think anyone has ever, even once, asked for another P2W (or pay for power) Asian grinder.
The damn things keep washing up on the shore like so much debris from a shipwreck.
Strange thing, this is the first game that gives me that openworld feel eversince Vanguard.. The urge to go out and discover, the sandboxy feel, the knowledge system that has some functionallity of the diplomacy system in Vanguard. A crafting system with actuall depth.. And some other side systems like the trading..
An MMO is much much more then just Combat, and thats where this is the first AAA game since the release of Vanguard that actually emphasis that part of the MMO...
I hear you on this and feel the same.
I remember when this site was crying for games like this.
I don't think anyone has ever, even once, asked for another P2W (or pay for power) Asian grinder.
The damn things keep washing up on the shore like so much debris from a shipwreck.
2/5
Sorry but these types of replies just don't carry weight anymore.
I havent played BDO but I have watched enough streams and it is nothing like Vanguard. I was there at launch and was one of the last 5 or 6 people left playing when the servers shut down.
MMOs are dead but if someone somewhere could make amodernized version of (the original) Vanguard and have it be stable it would resurrect the whole industry.
I havent played BDO but I have watched enough streams and it is nothing like Vanguard. I was there at launch and was one of the last 5 or 6 people left playing when the servers shut down.
MMOs are dead but if someone somewhere could make amodernized version of (the original) Vanguard and have it be stable it would resurrect the whole industry.
Again, I think Pantheon Rise of the fallen will be that game.
I havent played BDO but I have watched enough streams and it is nothing like Vanguard. I was there at launch and was one of the last 5 or 6 people left playing when the servers shut down.
MMOs are dead but if someone somewhere could make amodernized version of (the original) Vanguard and have it be stable it would resurrect the whole industry.
Again, I think Pantheon Rise of the fallen will be that game.
Cant be unless they get rid of the one thing both those games have in common.
Its like thinking SC will be good.
There are guys with the ability to actually MAKE a game and get it out the door, then you have 'visionaries' who might have decent concepts but have ZERO ability to actually put the finished product on the market.
I havent played BDO but I have watched enough streams and it is nothing like Vanguard. I was there at launch and was one of the last 5 or 6 people left playing when the servers shut down.
MMOs are dead but if someone somewhere could make amodernized version of (the original) Vanguard and have it be stable it would resurrect the whole industry.
Again, I think Pantheon Rise of the fallen will be that game.
Cant be unless they get rid of the one thing both those games have in common.
Its like thinking SC will be good.
There are guys with the ability to actually MAKE a game and get it out the door, then you have 'visionaries' who might have decent concepts but have ZERO ability to actually put the finished product on the market.
Excuses you but SC will be good..Just in ten years when it's released
I havent played BDO but I have watched enough streams and it is nothing like Vanguard. I was there at launch and was one of the last 5 or 6 people left playing when the servers shut down.
MMOs are dead but if someone somewhere could make amodernized version of (the original) Vanguard and have it be stable it would resurrect the whole industry.
Again, I think Pantheon Rise of the fallen will be that game.
Cant be unless they get rid of the one thing both those games have in common.
Its like thinking SC will be good.
There are guys with the ability to actually MAKE a game and get it out the door, then you have 'visionaries' who might have decent concepts but have ZERO ability to actually put the finished product on the market.
You mean getting rid of Brad McQuaid ? I can only agree... And McQuaid isn't a visionary, he's stuck in a 20 years old concept.
He is a vissionary, just not a manager nor a marketeer...
Even when it comes to Vanguard, all the refereshing ideas come from Brad.. However he could not prioritize well, and so the project grew out of proportions.. That growing out of proportions was the reson they cut development However, an out of proportions MMO, thats exactly what am huge part of his playerbase is still dreaming about.
Brad had a vision, and that vision was away from themeparks, and exactly those themeparks where hot in the vanguard days.. Only now people start realising again that there might be more to MMo's then just themeparks
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
I havent played BDO but I have watched enough streams and it is nothing like Vanguard. I was there at launch and was one of the last 5 or 6 people left playing when the servers shut down.
MMOs are dead but if someone somewhere could make amodernized version of (the original) Vanguard and have it be stable it would resurrect the whole industry.
Again, I think Pantheon Rise of the fallen will be that game.
Cant be unless they get rid of the one thing both those games have in common.
Its like thinking SC will be good.
There are guys with the ability to actually MAKE a game and get it out the door, then you have 'visionaries' who might have decent concepts but have ZERO ability to actually put the finished product on the market.
You mean getting rid of Brad McQuaid ? I can only agree... And McQuaid isn't a visionary, he's stuck in a 20 years old concept.
I think a huge majority of MMO players, myself included, would squee with excitement for a new mmo that employed some 20 year old concepts that were thrown out the window along the way, leaving us with soul less theme parks galore. An EQ or Vanguard style game made in this day and age? Sign me up!!!
I havent played BDO but I have watched enough streams and it is nothing like Vanguard. I was there at launch and was one of the last 5 or 6 people left playing when the servers shut down.
MMOs are dead but if someone somewhere could make amodernized version of (the original) Vanguard and have it be stable it would resurrect the whole industry.
Again, I think Pantheon Rise of the fallen will be that game.
Cant be unless they get rid of the one thing both those games have in common.
Its like thinking SC will be good.
There are guys with the ability to actually MAKE a game and get it out the door, then you have 'visionaries' who might have decent concepts but have ZERO ability to actually put the finished product on the market.
You mean getting rid of Brad McQuaid ? I can only agree... And McQuaid isn't a visionary, he's stuck in a 20 years old concept.
You can hate/loathe/bash/whatever you want towards Brad(Yes he did have personal problems but so what, we all do in some form or another and I'm not making excuses for him) but you have to remember, Brad was one of the main reasons we got EQ, and Vanguard. 2 games that left their marks in the MMO world. EQ is still going till this day and still has Daybreak games largest playerbase and it was the grandfather of 3D MMO's. It started it all. Some people will argue that Meridian or UO did but EQ was what launched the genre into stardom and into a market that was growing. Then we got Vanguard, another incredible game that we're still talking about till this day as to how good it was, regardless of the technical issues it DID have, it still provided a massive open world with LOTS to explore, see, do, experience. Vanguard and EQ are the 2 last MMO's that made you "feel" like you were in a living breathing world. All these other MMO's, while some are fun, have a lot of features that disconnect you from the game world. They just feel like lobby games.
I miss both these games because of how they made the world feel. Not many games today, if any can you say that about. Pantheon, please be the sum of all that was good for both EQ and Vanguard.
By the way, what is wrong with this so called "20 year concept"? Take a look hard look at MMO's today. MOST of them tank quickly because of the lack of things to do, lack of game world, lack of immersion in the world, things being given out on a silver platter(things easily obtainable) everything being instances, the list could go on and on. Games tried to move away from concepts that worked and I agree, games need to evolve and change over time but making them from a living breathing game world to a boxed instance full of shit is NOT the right direction and that's how the genre has gone the past 10 years or so and the reason why its shit.
I can tell you right now I have 4-5 friends who we all play MMO's together and we're waiting for another Vanguard type game to arrive. We talk about it daily, how we miss Vanguard. We all agree it certainly had its issues but putting those aside, its gameplay aspects, world, scenery, size and scope, were all incredible and they weren't even finished!
The problem with you guys is that you confuse "a huge majority" with "a couple of mmorpg.com posters".
I think you are confusing those people who think there is a huge majority with those people who are well aware that the majority would not want these types of games.
Doesn't mean they shouldn't be made as long as the developers are clear about what their population is going to be like.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I havent played BDO but I have watched enough streams and it is nothing like Vanguard. I was there at launch and was one of the last 5 or 6 people left playing when the servers shut down.
MMOs are dead but if someone somewhere could make amodernized version of (the original) Vanguard and have it be stable it would resurrect the whole industry.
Again, I think Pantheon Rise of the fallen will be that game.
Cant be unless they get rid of the one thing both those games have in common.
Its like thinking SC will be good.
There are guys with the ability to actually MAKE a game and get it out the door, then you have 'visionaries' who might have decent concepts but have ZERO ability to actually put the finished product on the market.
You mean getting rid of Brad McQuaid ? I can only agree... And McQuaid isn't a visionary, he's stuck in a 20 years old concept.
I think a huge majority of MMO players, myself included, would squee with excitement for a new mmo that employed some 20 year old concepts that were thrown out the window along the way, leaving us with soul less theme parks galore. An EQ or Vanguard style game made in this day and age? Sign me up!!!
The problem with you guys is that you confuse "a huge majority" with "a couple of mmorpg.com posters". This type of games will never touch any kind of majority anymore. It's not because a few nostalgia struck "vets" here ask for a modernized EQ copy that that kind of game would have any success. Neither will BDO.
I'd also like to see a modernized UO, but I know that would be a niche game. I'm not confusing my desires with reality.
I really hope Brad makes that Pantheon game for you guys and that it will be nice for a change, because let's be honest, Vanguard was a total mess and will indeed be remembered by the majority of MMO player who have tried it... not as an example to follow, but as a mix of worst launch ever, most laggy game ever, most bugged game ever, most unfinished game ever, etc... But for Pantheon to be more than an EQ copy with slightly better graphics that only a few will play, he will have to modernize the concept.
But do you feel the concepts themselves were failures?
I think you guys who are saying the older concepts are not wanted by a lot are mistaken. Tons and tons of people are desperately looking for a game that will "stick". Nothing that has come out in the last 10 yrs aside from WoW have stuck because they've all followed the "new" ways which have been for the worse. There's been some new things done well but the new quicker concepts are not good for longevity. All the games now are; get to max level in 1-2 days and grind dungeons/raids for gear within that first week. ALL of them have followed this. Then you see the forums blow up for those games saying there's nothing to do, blah blah blah. Well, its partially the players faults for rushing as well as the developers for making their game extremely easy, quick, and empty. So, in essence, the "new" ways for the most part have been bad for the genre. While I'll say the "old" ways weren't 100% flawless, they did do more right than wrong where the new ways do more bad than good.
Just because they're claiming that Pantheon will be the older traditional style MMO like Vanguard/EQ doesn't mean they'll follow every concept those games had. I'm sure it'll have some of the newer ways incorporated into it while bringing in some of the older ways.
Comments
But also the depth of the non combat systems, trading and crafting, there is a small RTS game inside BDO... which has the same depth as Vanguard crafting and diplomacy.. espescially when you compare that with the knowledge system and influencing NPC to give you pieces of story and quests or even buffs.
Anyway, despite being a sandbox game, there is more depth in this game then most any (themepark) game released since Vanguard.
Only if you rate a game by its outside shell, you will not see what this game has in common with Vanguard... i never said it is Vanguard2, i only said there is some depth in this game that reminds me of vanguard.
Luckilly this game got finished before release and is not overly bugged.. (yeah i know sounds harsh towards a great game like vanguard) But then, the orriginal Devs never got the chance to finish the game.. I would have loved to see a finished version of Vanguard.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
I wont play BDO simply because of the class system being gender restricted and the combat was so incredibly easy. I would gather packs of mobs and destroy them with no sense of danger what so ever. I got to 15 in a matter of minutes, no joke. Instead of questing, I would grind on mobs(which I DO enjoy) and it was so quick it felt like there was no challenge to the game, that paired with easy mobs made it feel like I was playing another form of Diablo. Just hack an slash, kill kill kill, rinse repeat with zero challenge. The other part is the lack of any group content and structure. With zero healers, classes that generate threat, I won't play it. I had that mess with other action combat oriented games and won't do it again.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
I hear you on this and feel the same.
I remember when this site was crying for games like this.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
The damn things keep washing up on the shore like so much debris from a shipwreck.
2/5
Sorry but these types of replies just don't carry weight anymore.
MMOs are dead but if someone somewhere could make amodernized version of (the original) Vanguard and have it be stable it would resurrect the whole industry.
Its like thinking SC will be good.
There are guys with the ability to actually MAKE a game and get it out the door, then you have 'visionaries' who might have decent concepts but have ZERO ability to actually put the finished product on the market.
Even when it comes to Vanguard, all the refereshing ideas come from Brad..
However he could not prioritize well, and so the project grew out of proportions..
That growing out of proportions was the reson they cut development
However, an out of proportions MMO, thats exactly what am huge part of his playerbase is still dreaming about.
Brad had a vision, and that vision was away from themeparks, and exactly those themeparks where hot in the vanguard days.. Only now people start realising again that there might be more to MMo's then just themeparks
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
I need to ride my demon hound again....
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
You can hate/loathe/bash/whatever you want towards Brad(Yes he did have personal problems but so what, we all do in some form or another and I'm not making excuses for him) but you have to remember, Brad was one of the main reasons we got EQ, and Vanguard. 2 games that left their marks in the MMO world. EQ is still going till this day and still has Daybreak games largest playerbase and it was the grandfather of 3D MMO's. It started it all. Some people will argue that Meridian or UO did but EQ was what launched the genre into stardom and into a market that was growing. Then we got Vanguard, another incredible game that we're still talking about till this day as to how good it was, regardless of the technical issues it DID have, it still provided a massive open world with LOTS to explore, see, do, experience. Vanguard and EQ are the 2 last MMO's that made you "feel" like you were in a living breathing world. All these other MMO's, while some are fun, have a lot of features that disconnect you from the game world. They just feel like lobby games.
I miss both these games because of how they made the world feel. Not many games today, if any can you say that about. Pantheon, please be the sum of all that was good for both EQ and Vanguard.
By the way, what is wrong with this so called "20 year concept"? Take a look hard look at MMO's today. MOST of them tank quickly because of the lack of things to do, lack of game world, lack of immersion in the world, things being given out on a silver platter(things easily obtainable) everything being instances, the list could go on and on. Games tried to move away from concepts that worked and I agree, games need to evolve and change over time but making them from a living breathing game world to a boxed instance full of shit is NOT the right direction and that's how the genre has gone the past 10 years or so and the reason why its shit.
I can tell you right now I have 4-5 friends who we all play MMO's together and we're waiting for another Vanguard type game to arrive. We talk about it daily, how we miss Vanguard. We all agree it certainly had its issues but putting those aside, its gameplay aspects, world, scenery, size and scope, were all incredible and they weren't even finished!
Doesn't mean they shouldn't be made as long as the developers are clear about what their population is going to be like.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
I think you guys who are saying the older concepts are not wanted by a lot are mistaken. Tons and tons of people are desperately looking for a game that will "stick". Nothing that has come out in the last 10 yrs aside from WoW have stuck because they've all followed the "new" ways which have been for the worse. There's been some new things done well but the new quicker concepts are not good for longevity. All the games now are; get to max level in 1-2 days and grind dungeons/raids for gear within that first week. ALL of them have followed this. Then you see the forums blow up for those games saying there's nothing to do, blah blah blah. Well, its partially the players faults for rushing as well as the developers for making their game extremely easy, quick, and empty. So, in essence, the "new" ways for the most part have been bad for the genre. While I'll say the "old" ways weren't 100% flawless, they did do more right than wrong where the new ways do more bad than good.
Just because they're claiming that Pantheon will be the older traditional style MMO like Vanguard/EQ doesn't mean they'll follow every concept those games had. I'm sure it'll have some of the newer ways incorporated into it while bringing in some of the older ways.
Speak for yourself bubba, don't generalize, it makes you sound silly, and clueless.
I care about your gaming 'problems' and teenage anxieties, just not today.
God you re funny.
Fixed it for you.
Things like that make you look silly and clueless.