People dont create strings like this in reference to WOW.
Not on this forum for sure. On the official forums though there has been a steady stream of "how does been stuck in my garrison accepting missions constitute an mmo". .
what I am about to say is a bit off topic but I feel like it really needs to be said.
RPG is not really about story or stats-driven combat. It can be stats driven anything really not just combat its just that combat is what is most focused on because of tradition and how RPGs where born. But I will say I really really dont think one of the core corner stones of RPG is story. That is something that came out of the computer era.
anyway sorry I just wanted to say that, not trying to debate but just letting you know not everyone who played RPGs in during the birth (late 70s early 80s) would agree with that definition.
We're talking about videogame RPGs, which are a distinct genre from tabletop RPGs. Be sure not to confuse the two.
Across the history of those videogame RPGs (since the late 70s), 99% of them have been combat focused. So what I said is perfectly acceptable, and you're really not going to be able to name enough non-combat videogame RPGs to make my statement look false.
yeah I know but its a subject that pains me greatly and I felt like saying it.
Its not what the intent of RPG was but the industry basterized it and made it very limiting because of their lack of understanding and now its considered a defintion that make me sad enough to reponse to it when I see it.
Haha yeah im sure you have an understanding of the intent of what an RPG is...ok buddy whatever you want to tell yourself. Its amazing people actually have this mentality where they think everyone should agree with their flawed logic, ignorant definitions or ways things should be.
Its always funny though the ones that do think this are usually the old men sitting at home all day spamming websites...clearly having that mentality doesnt get you far in life.
in short if the game doesnt 'feel' like any other MMO every played then the population is going to ask why and that will draw attention to the statement of MMO and strings like this one will be created.
People dont create strings like this in reference to WOW.
That is not to suggest we cant challenge the defintion but that is what ubisoft is doign and they are doing it with a weak example of that challenge and they should have thought that thru
Now I'm confused. You're saying because publications are creating "strings" from the Division being what the developers are stating as -- "Its an Open World RPG" to what publications are saying "Its an MMO" you're saying... that people are going to questions it?
Well yes sir. I believe you are right if that's what you're saying. Publications are stating "Its an MMO" while the development team has been trying to say "We're not going to call it an MMO" -- but the likeness is there.. so how.. in what capacity.. does it not feel like one? If they're tying those "strings" together between The Division and MMO... the likeness is there. The references are made.
Whether it is or isn't.. whether you have a definition or I do... type in The Division MMO... and it pops up... and most of them -- even small publications and tiny youtube channels that have no direct affiliation with Ubisoft.. they're saying MMO.
Maybe you would have said MMO too had you played it.
let me try again
People do not debate and create threads debating on if WOW or EQ2 is an MMO. Like porn we know its an MMO, we all know how the game 'feels' after months of play.
If a game 'feels' more like an multiplayer online shooter and doesnt feel at all like WOW or EQ2 but is called an 'mmo' then people will create threads asking questions such as here and start wondering.
If the game 'feels' more like an online shooter than it does a WoW killer then the creators of the game are going to have a lot of trouble down the line defending why they called it an MMO and not an online shooter.
If on the other hand the game strongly different in ways we havent seen before then it might be easier to them to suggest its an MMO. but as it is, it walks and talks exactly like games we have already seen before for decades and those games are called mulitplayer online shooters.
but the reality is ubisoft just wants the media exposure more than they want to be innovative.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
in short if the game doesnt 'feel' like any other MMO every played then the population is going to ask why and that will draw attention to the statement of MMO and strings like this one will be created.
People dont create strings like this in reference to WOW.
That is not to suggest we cant challenge the defintion but that is what ubisoft is doign and they are doing it with a weak example of that challenge and they should have thought that thru
Now I'm confused. You're saying because publications are creating "strings" from the Division being what the developers are stating as -- "Its an Open World RPG" to what publications are saying "Its an MMO" you're saying... that people are going to questions it?
Well yes sir. I believe you are right if that's what you're saying. Publications are stating "Its an MMO" while the development team has been trying to say "We're not going to call it an MMO" -- but the likeness is there.. so how.. in what capacity.. does it not feel like one? If they're tying those "strings" together between The Division and MMO... the likeness is there. The references are made.
Whether it is or isn't.. whether you have a definition or I do... type in The Division MMO... and it pops up... and most of them -- even small publications and tiny youtube channels that have no direct affiliation with Ubisoft.. they're saying MMO.
Maybe you would have said MMO too had you played it.
.
but the reality I DONT HAVE A CLUE WHAT THE HELL IM SAYING.
I think what I should ask for from this community is to point to me something in this game that is different from an online shooter that we already havent seen
Thus far what I have been given are all things that I think already exist in online shooters for more than a decade. if I am mistaken please point me to specifics
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
People do not debate and create threads debating on if WOW or EQ2 is an MMO. Like porn we know its an MMO, we all know how the game 'feels' after months of play.
If a game 'feels' more like an multiplayer online shooter and doesnt feel at all like WOW or EQ2 but is called an 'mmo' then people will create threads asking questions such as here and start wondering.
If the game 'feels' more like an online shooter than it does a WoW killer then the creators of the game are going to have a lot of trouble down the line defending why they called it an MMO and not an online shooter.
If on the other hand the game strongly different in ways we havent seen before then it might be easier to them to suggest its an MMO. but as it is, it walks and talks exactly like games we have already seen before for decades and those games are called mulitplayer online shooters.
but the reality is ubisoft just wants the media exposure more than they want to be innovative.
Well... again... people who are saying it isn't an MMO . ... .. such as yourself... haven't played it. Some may have...
These same people say the same things about other games that "aren't MMOs" even when others say they are.. even when the developers say they are.
People generally don't need to define one note games. They don't look at a platformer and call it an action based platformer.
But the division is something we haven't seen before. Its done in a way that can be confusing, especially to those that havent' played it.. but it isn't confusing in a bad way.
So lets put it to rest here: The Division is not an MMO but people will still think it is and call it one due to its MMO features
Before you ask.. "what MMO features" the ability to play with a massive amount of players at one time. Thats all it really requires to be an MMO. Right? Oh but you need a persistent world? It has that. Grouping? Check. Crafting? Check. Hundreds to thousands of hours of content? Check. PvP? Check. Seeing other players out in the explorable world? Check. hmm.. it does sound an awful lot like an MMO.
I think what I should ask for from this community is to point to me something in this game that is different from an online shooter that we already havent seen
Thus far what I have been given are all things that I think already exist in online shooters for more than a decade. if I am mistaken please point me to specifics
A well crafted amazing representation of New York City... there you got your answer now go play with your $300 I mean $600 prototype .
I think what I should ask for from this community is to point to me something in this game that is different from an online shooter that we already havent seen
Thus far what I have been given are all things that I think already exist in online shooters for more than a decade. if I am mistaken please point me to specifics
A well crafted amazing representation of New York City... there you got your answer now go play with your $300 I mean $600 prototype .
a well crafted amazing representation of New York City is what makes it different from an online shooter.
so sad AAA games are
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I think what I should ask for from this community is to point to me something in this game that is different from an online shooter that we already havent seen
Thus far what I have been given are all things that I think already exist in online shooters for more than a decade. if I am mistaken please point me to specifics
I don't think you've ever played an online shooter. Give me a synopsis of your favorite online shooter. Tell me the 4 things that make it an online shooter and I will tell you how the division is different.
Well... again... people who are saying it isn't an MMO . ... .. such as yourself... haven't played it. Some may have...
These same people say the same things about other games that "aren't MMOs" even when others say they are.. even when the developers say they are.
People generally don't need to define one note games. They don't look at a platformer and call it an action based platformer.
But the division is something we haven't seen before. Its done in a way that can be confusing, especially to those that havent' played it.. but it isn't confusing in a bad way.
So lets put it to rest here: The Division is not an MMO but people will still think it is and call it one due to its MMO features
Before you ask.. "what MMO features" the ability to play with a massive amount of players at one time. Thats all it really requires to be an MMO. Right? Oh but you need a persistent world? It has that. Grouping? Check. Crafting? Check. Hundreds to thousands of hours of content? Check. PvP? Check. Seeing other players out in the explorable world? Check. hmm.. it does sound an awful lot like an MMO.
I think thats as accurate as you'll get.
pvp isnt even REMOTELY a requirement or pillar of an MMO by a lOOOOOOONG shot.
oh well..
let me ask the question differently.
In what way is the online version of this game different from an Online shooter that we have seen already?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I think what I should ask for from this community is to point to me something in this game that is different from an online shooter that we already havent seen
Thus far what I have been given are all things that I think already exist in online shooters for more than a decade. if I am mistaken please point me to specifics
A well crafted amazing representation of New York City... there you got your answer now go play with your $300 I mean $600 prototype .
a well crafted amazing representation of New York City is what makes it different from an online shooter.
so sad AAA games are
You didnt ask for "all" things, I gave you one, again that reading comprehension 101 class will do you wonders.
But hey im not surprised you werent happy with the answer because you arent here for a real discussion.
Well... again... people who are saying it isn't an MMO . ... .. such as yourself... haven't played it. Some may have...
These same people say the same things about other games that "aren't MMOs" even when others say they are.. even when the developers say they are.
People generally don't need to define one note games. They don't look at a platformer and call it an action based platformer.
But the division is something we haven't seen before. Its done in a way that can be confusing, especially to those that havent' played it.. but it isn't confusing in a bad way.
So lets put it to rest here: The Division is not an MMO but people will still think it is and call it one due to its MMO features
Before you ask.. "what MMO features" the ability to play with a massive amount of players at one time. Thats all it really requires to be an MMO. Right? Oh but you need a persistent world? It has that. Grouping? Check. Crafting? Check. Hundreds to thousands of hours of content? Check. PvP? Check. Seeing other players out in the explorable world? Check. hmm.. it does sound an awful lot like an MMO.
I think thats as accurate as you'll get.
pvp isnt even REMOTELY a requirement or pillar of an MMO by a lOOOOOOONG shot.
oh well..
let me ask the question differently.
In what way is the online version of this game different from an Online shooter that we have seen already?
As I said before. Give me 4 features of your favorite online shooter and I'll tell you how its different.
Well... again... people who are saying it isn't an MMO . ... .. such as yourself... haven't played it. Some may have...
These same people say the same things about other games that "aren't MMOs" even when others say they are.. even when the developers say they are.
People generally don't need to define one note games. They don't look at a platformer and call it an action based platformer.
But the division is something we haven't seen before. Its done in a way that can be confusing, especially to those that havent' played it.. but it isn't confusing in a bad way.
So lets put it to rest here: The Division is not an MMO but people will still think it is and call it one due to its MMO features
Before you ask.. "what MMO features" the ability to play with a massive amount of players at one time. Thats all it really requires to be an MMO. Right? Oh but you need a persistent world? It has that. Grouping? Check. Crafting? Check. Hundreds to thousands of hours of content? Check. PvP? Check. Seeing other players out in the explorable world? Check. hmm.. it does sound an awful lot like an MMO.
I think thats as accurate as you'll get.
pvp isnt even REMOTELY a requirement or pillar of an MMO by a lOOOOOOONG shot.
oh well..
let me ask the question differently.
In what way is the online version of this game different from an Online shooter that we have seen already?
As I said before. Give me 4 features of your favorite online shooter and I'll tell you how its different.
different? oh that is AAA said so very sad
the problem with AAA games in general is that they dont have enough variety in things to do, not that they do the same limited number of things slightly different.
wow.
ok well I have to go but I will give your question some thought, in the mean time you could just hit it out of the park with something that is not different but never been done
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
How about set silly labels aside and just enjoy the game?
Studios and developers need to stop using them then. They are misleading people with these "labels".
Players have every right to call them out on it too.
In this case its not the Developers calling it an MMO. There is one Troll here who thinks that if a random website calls a game something different that the Developers vetted that information and allowed that random website and ALL other random sites to say it. Which is not how the real world work or the internet...but hes not here for a real discussion.
the problem with AAA games in general is that they dont have enough variety in things to do, not that they do the same limited number of things slightly different.
wow.
ok well I have to go but I will give your question some thought, in the mean time you could just hit it out of the park with something that is not different but never been done
Its called calling your bluff.
I'm betting you don't play shooters. I'm actually pretty sure you haven't ever played one. Had you played one.. this question... this exact question wouldn't have been asked.
So as long as you ask this question.. I propose to you the answer. Provide 4 features of your favorite Shooter... and I'll come back and tell you how The Division is different. Its not hard. An no matter what you answer.. The Division IS different.. in every aspect. So please.. make your "favorite features" from your "favorite shooter" worthwhile.
Well... again... people who are saying it isn't an MMO . ... .. such as yourself... haven't played it. Some may have...
These same people say the same things about other games that "aren't MMOs" even when others say they are.. even when the developers say they are.
People generally don't need to define one note games. They don't look at a platformer and call it an action based platformer.
But the division is something we haven't seen before. Its done in a way that can be confusing, especially to those that havent' played it.. but it isn't confusing in a bad way.
So lets put it to rest here: The Division is not an MMO but people will still think it is and call it one due to its MMO features
Before you ask.. "what MMO features" the ability to play with a massive amount of players at one time. Thats all it really requires to be an MMO. Right? Oh but you need a persistent world? It has that. Grouping? Check. Crafting? Check. Hundreds to thousands of hours of content? Check. PvP? Check. Seeing other players out in the explorable world? Check. hmm.. it does sound an awful lot like an MMO.
I think thats as accurate as you'll get.
pvp isnt even REMOTELY a requirement or pillar of an MMO by a lOOOOOOONG shot.
oh well..
let me ask the question differently.
In what way is the online version of this game different from an Online shooter that we have seen already?
As I said before. Give me 4 features of your favorite online shooter and I'll tell you how its different.
Shocker you throw out a legit question and he bails...He has admitted to not playing online shooters he is just here to troll and thats it. But this site allows the passive aggressive trolling.
How about set silly labels aside and just enjoy the game?
Studios and developers need to stop using them then. They are misleading people with these "labels".
Players have every right to call them out on it too.
In this case its not the Developers calling it an MMO. There is one Troll here who thinks that if a random website calls a game something different that the Developers vetted that information and allowed that random website and ALL other random sites to say it. Which is not how the real world work or the internet...but hes not here for a real discussion.
"But Ryan Barnard, the game’s director, makes clear “If you’ve played other MMOs or RPGs, the power curve, will be present in our game as well.” "
"Like many MMOs, everything is stat-based, but the stats are hidden within real world terms. So, you’ll be finding guns with tighter bullet spread, larger clips, and faster reload times. “Finding weapons, finding gear or loot will be important through till maximum level in the game,” he said."
He's making the comparison to an MMO. It's borderline calling it an MMO, except for the shared virtual space. It's close enough.
As I said before. Give me 4 features of your favorite online shooter and I'll tell you how its different.
Shocker you throw out a legit question and he bails...He has admitted to not playing online shooters he is just here to troll and thats it. But this site allows the passive aggressive trolling.
Yeah, its always nice when you catch them in a lie. I'm all for the debate.. I have nothing else to play until March 8th
How about set silly labels aside and just enjoy the game?
Studios and developers need to stop using them then. They are misleading people with these "labels".
Players have every right to call them out on it too.
In this case its not the Developers calling it an MMO. There is one Troll here who thinks that if a random website calls a game something different that the Developers vetted that information and allowed that random website and ALL other random sites to say it. Which is not how the real world work or the internet...but hes not here for a real discussion.
"But Ryan Barnard, the game’s director, makes clear “If you’ve played other MMOs or RPGs, the power curve, will be present in our game as well.” "
"Like many MMOs, everything is stat-based, but the stats are hidden within real world terms. So, you’ll be finding guns with tighter bullet spread, larger clips, and faster reload times. “Finding weapons, finding gear or loot will be important through till maximum level in the game,” he said."
He's making the comparison to an MMO. It's borderline calling it an MMO, except for the shared virtual space. It's close enough.
Making comparisons doesnt make it something. I can compare figure skating to hockey because they are on ice doesnt make figure skating hockey.
"For us, one of the biggest challenges is figuring out how to tell people how much of an RPG it is," Cortes explains. “It has shooting, and is shooter-like. If you look at it, that’s the whole point because we want it to be very immersive. But it’s not a shooter with some RPG stats tacked on. It’s actually a proper RPG from the very beginning. There’s deep progression when it comes to loot, gear and levels and you’ll be able to customise every skill, do exactly what you want and choose roles. So, that’s probably the biggest communication challenge. We want to make clear to everyone that it’s an RPG."
As I said before. Give me 4 features of your favorite online shooter and I'll tell you how its different.
Shocker you throw out a legit question and he bails...He has admitted to not playing online shooters he is just here to troll and thats it. But this site allows the passive aggressive trolling.
Yeah, its always nice when you catch them in a lie. I'm all for the debate.. I have nothing else to play until March 8th
Same and I have 20 minutes left of work...it sure makes days go by fast when you get to deal with people like him...good thing I am in between projects this week lol
How about set silly labels aside and just enjoy the game?
Studios and developers need to stop using them then. They are misleading people with these "labels".
Players have every right to call them out on it too.
Why? It is not like people, aside from here, care very much about labels. Do you seriously think that people will check out Division (or for that matter Destiny) because it is called a MMO, as opposed to that they are few famous big AAA games that have a lot of publicity?
In fact, I would even say that these games are played mostly by those who don't care much about MMOs.
yeah I know but its a subject that pains me greatly and I felt like saying it.
Its not what the intent of RPG was but the industry basterized it and made it very limiting because of their lack of understanding and now its considered a defintion that make me sad enough to reponse to it when I see it.
"Bastardized" probably overstates it.
Keep in mind tabletop RPGs started with dungeon crawling where traps and monsters were the two main problems you encountered. So combat was one of the primary components right from the start.
You could point out that while 99% of videogame RPGs were combat-focused, the proportion was lower in tabletop RPGs. But I'd expect the number is still over 80% of tabletop RPGs being combat-focused (in terms of the rules at least; in terms of gameplay, a tabletop RPG is going to provide whatever mix of activities your DM and players' are interested in.)
So while combat was generally a little less of a focus in tabletop RPGs compared with videogame RPGs, the difference isn't large enough to claim that videogame RPGs "bastardized" tabletop ones.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Comments
Its always funny though the ones that do think this are usually the old men sitting at home all day spamming websites...clearly having that mentality doesnt get you far in life.
People do not debate and create threads debating on if WOW or EQ2 is an MMO. Like porn we know its an MMO, we all know how the game 'feels' after months of play.
If a game 'feels' more like an multiplayer online shooter and doesnt feel at all like WOW or EQ2 but is called an 'mmo' then people will create threads asking questions such as here and start wondering.
If the game 'feels' more like an online shooter than it does a WoW killer then the creators of the game are going to have a lot of trouble down the line defending why they called it an MMO and not an online shooter.
If on the other hand the game strongly different in ways we havent seen before then it might be easier to them to suggest its an MMO. but as it is, it walks and talks exactly like games we have already seen before for decades and those games are called mulitplayer online shooters.
but the reality is ubisoft just wants the media exposure more than they want to be innovative.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Thus far what I have been given are all things that I think already exist in online shooters for more than a decade. if I am mistaken please point me to specifics
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
These same people say the same things about other games that "aren't MMOs" even when others say they are.. even when the developers say they are.
People generally don't need to define one note games. They don't look at a platformer and call it an action based platformer.
But the division is something we haven't seen before. Its done in a way that can be confusing, especially to those that havent' played it.. but it isn't confusing in a bad way.
So lets put it to rest here: The Division is not an MMO but people will still think it is and call it one due to its MMO features
Before you ask.. "what MMO features" the ability to play with a massive amount of players at one time. Thats all it really requires to be an MMO. Right? Oh but you need a persistent world? It has that. Grouping? Check. Crafting? Check. Hundreds to thousands of hours of content? Check. PvP? Check. Seeing other players out in the explorable world? Check. hmm.. it does sound an awful lot like an MMO.
I think thats as accurate as you'll get.
so sad AAA games are
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
pvp isnt even REMOTELY a requirement or pillar of an MMO by a lOOOOOOONG shot.
oh well..
let me ask the question differently.
In what way is the online version of this game different from an Online shooter that we have seen already?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
But hey im not surprised you werent happy with the answer because you arent here for a real discussion.
Players have every right to call them out on it too.
oh that is AAA said so very sad
the problem with AAA games in general is that they dont have enough variety in things to do, not that they do the same limited number of things slightly different.
wow.
ok well I have to go but I will give your question some thought, in the mean time you could just hit it out of the park with something that is not different but never been done
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
It's not massive if everyone is "phased" or instanced. Might as well say that all those FPS and RTS games are MMOs too.
The uniqueness of an MMO is that the virtual environment is shared on a massive scale (in the hundreds or thousands), not with 10 or less.
I'm betting you don't play shooters. I'm actually pretty sure you haven't ever played one. Had you played one.. this question... this exact question wouldn't have been asked.
So as long as you ask this question.. I propose to you the answer. Provide 4 features of your favorite Shooter... and I'll come back and tell you how The Division is different. Its not hard. An no matter what you answer.. The Division IS different.. in every aspect. So please.. make your "favorite features" from your "favorite shooter" worthwhile.
"Like many MMOs, everything is stat-based, but the stats are hidden within real world terms. So, you’ll be finding guns with tighter bullet spread, larger clips, and faster reload times. “Finding weapons, finding gear or loot will be important through till maximum level in the game,” he said."
He's making the comparison to an MMO. It's borderline calling it an MMO, except for the shared virtual space. It's close enough.
http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/10/24/how-the-division-is-combating-the-weight-of-expectation
"For us, one of the biggest challenges is figuring out how to tell people how much of an RPG it is," Cortes explains. “It has shooting, and is shooter-like. If you look at it, that’s the whole point because we want it to be very immersive. But it’s not a shooter with some RPG stats tacked on. It’s actually a proper RPG from the very beginning. There’s deep progression when it comes to loot, gear and levels and you’ll be able to customise every skill, do exactly what you want and choose roles. So, that’s probably the biggest communication challenge. We want to make clear to everyone that it’s an RPG."
In fact, I would even say that these games are played mostly by those who don't care much about MMOs.
Keep in mind tabletop RPGs started with dungeon crawling where traps and monsters were the two main problems you encountered. So combat was one of the primary components right from the start.
You could point out that while 99% of videogame RPGs were combat-focused, the proportion was lower in tabletop RPGs. But I'd expect the number is still over 80% of tabletop RPGs being combat-focused (in terms of the rules at least; in terms of gameplay, a tabletop RPG is going to provide whatever mix of activities your DM and players' are interested in.)
So while combat was generally a little less of a focus in tabletop RPGs compared with videogame RPGs, the difference isn't large enough to claim that videogame RPGs "bastardized" tabletop ones.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver