BDO does something I have never seen in an mmo before. It prohibits player to player trading and in the NA/EU version also doesn't allow cash shop items to be sold on the AH. As far as I can see this should make RMT/gold selling almost impossible. By thinking outside the box the devs seem to have solved a problem that has plagued mmos and which until now had seemed impossible to fix.
The system's downside is that players can't give friends stuff they made, or give friends/guildies money/drops etc which seems to detract from the social aspect of the game; but at the same time it promotes a kind of more stable online society where you can really be rewarded for your efforts and funnels player interaction into other areas.
What do you guys think? If this system basically stamps out gold sellers and all the spam/bots that go with that, is it an idea that can or should be used in other mmos? Would you be as blown away as I am at an mmo which finally solves the gold selling issue? Or is the cure worse than the disease?
It makes the cash shop your "gold seller" that's the downside to this sort of system. You have to wonder, how much of this move was down to maximising cash shop profit.
There is the same vertical progression in EVE. You cannot jump in a rank 5 mission as a new player, you have to skill up and aquire better gear (ships). So either EVE and BDO are sandbox games or neither are according to your rules.
You don't have to level in BDO, you can craft all day long, you can stay level 15 and get to rule a NPC empire, craft and get rich. The PVP is only 1 part of the game, no more important than the crafting. Same as EVE.
I do not have to do lvl 5 missions, I do not have to do missions at all. I do not have to get "better" ships, I can spent 10 years in T1 frigate and many players do.
Crafting in BDO is just a mini-game, nothing with complexity that would touch the design of the game.
Yea because crafting in EVE is such a complex endeavor. In both, it is just a mini-game. Have the right components, start the process and wait. Just because you need to have a blueprint doesn't make it any more complex, it's just 1 component required to craft. So what exactly make EVE a sandbox and not BDO ?
Yea because crafting in EVE is such a complex endeavor. In both, it is just a mini-game. Have the right components, start the process and wait. Just because you need to have a blueprint doesn't make it any more complex, it's just 1 component required to craft. So what exactly make EVE a sandbox and not BDO ?
I start to seriously doubt that this poster ever played the game...
Why? Because I am not all emotional about it in one way or another?
I liked the game but I won't be pretending the game is something it isn't. It is progression driven themepark like any other and it is all fine, I enjoyed it.
BDO does something I have never seen in an mmo before. It prohibits player to player trading and in the NA/EU version also doesn't allow cash shop items to be sold on the AH. As far as I can see this should make RMT/gold selling almost impossible. By thinking outside the box the devs seem to have solved a problem that has plagued mmos and which until now had seemed impossible to fix.
The system's downside is that players can't give friends stuff they made, or give friends/guildies money/drops etc which seems to detract from the social aspect of the game; but at the same time it promotes a kind of more stable online society where you can really be rewarded for your efforts and funnels player interaction into other areas.
What do you guys think? If this system basically stamps out gold sellers and all the spam/bots that go with that, is it an idea that can or should be used in other mmos? Would you be as blown away as I am at an mmo which finally solves the gold selling issue? Or is the cure worse than the disease?
It makes the cash shop your "gold seller" that's the downside to this sort of system. You have to wonder, how much of this move was down to maximising cash shop profit.
I'd rather the money goes into the devs pockets myself. Not seeing RMT seller spam in chat is a godsend by itself.
So we come back onto topic with BDO choosing to stop real player trading to try and prevent gold selling. I agree with as a way to stop the 3rd party gold sellers even though its sad that they have to do this. The debate on how gold selling impacts games could go on until the cows come home. I believe it does impact the economy and you don't which is fine. I'm interested in what you thoughts are on gold sellers not RMT as some games have RMT in them by their own companies.You think its ok for 3rd party gold sellers or not ?
1) There is no evidence suggesting that RMT has any significant impact on economy - this is no believe, it is lack of evidence.
On the contrary I can provide you links how market reacts on bot mass banning in EVE Online - one is in this very thread, you will find out the impact is very small if any.
Since you seem to prefer your belief rather than base your judgement on evidence, I leave it as that.
2) I was using term RMT in context of 3rd party sellers.
Actually, it is tougher question then it might seem.
I believe, that no company should interfere into 3rd party deals as long as they stay out of their game, but they should have a say against 3rd party services/products that operates "inside" the game, if that makes any sense to you.
As in the real world, actions by players can destabilize the economy. Gold farming creates currency within the game more rapidly than usual, exacerbating inflation. In extreme cases, a cracker may be able to exploit the system and create a large amount of money. This could result in hyperinflation.
As in the real world, actions by players can destabilize the economy. Gold farming creates currency within the game more rapidly than usual, exacerbating inflation. In extreme cases, a cracker may be able to exploit the system and create a large amount of money. This could result in hyperinflation.
As in the real world, actions by players can destabilize the economy. Gold farming creates currency within the game more rapidly than usual, exacerbating inflation. In extreme cases, a cracker may be able to exploit the system and create a large amount of money. This could result in hyperinflation.
First of all, "destabilize economy" does not make whole much of sense.
Second, I think we have already went through that "rhetorics". Why do you prefer to theory craft instead of taking the evidence available?
It is just that most economies are inflationary by design, they are not complex enough to distribute the wealth within the player base.
Makes pretty good sense to me. It seems like you won't believe it until you see it with your own eyes. Its like if a tree falls down in the wood will it make a noise if nobody is around to hear it ? your argument carries no substance you show no proof that gold sellers do not affect the economy and yet you defend it with nothing ? I'm pretty sure that wiki does alot of research to make sure their facts are correct yet you question it ?
Funny how all the Eve fanbois hijack this thread to defend their game and call this game out. You can say what you want, BDO is a sandbox and your perfect gem of a game is not the only sandbox in town, deal with it.
BDO isn't an economy sim like EVE. BDO is a pvp territory sim. That doesn't make the crafting trivial or overly simplistic. It just means the focus on competition and control isn't on the bits and pieces of the crafting
Well, that is precisely what makes crafting simplistic - not being the focus of the game.
PsYcHoGBR said: your argument carries no substance you show no proof that gold sellers do not affect the economy and yet you defend it with nothing ? I'm pretty sure that wiki does alot of research to make sure their facts are correct yet you question it ?
Um...did you read the link I posted? CCP representative explicitely stated and even provided the graph to show how little impact the bots had on the market after they were banned.
Not enough? What evidence you have to disprove it?
PsYcHoGBR said: your argument carries no substance you show no proof that gold sellers do not affect the economy and yet you defend it with nothing ? I'm pretty sure that wiki does alot of research to make sure their facts are correct yet you question it ?
Um...did you read the link I posted? CCP representative explicitely stated and even provided the graph to show how little impact the bots had on the market after they were banned.
Not enough? What evidence you have to disprove it?
Is that it ? Eve online ? FYI I played Eve for 3-4 years. Your whole argument is based on Eve ? I gave you several links including wiki stating that gold sellers impact economy and you come back with someone at CCP talking about Eve's economy which is huge part of this game. This statement you talk about is about bots not gold sellers. Nearly every ice field had bots this is nothing to do with gold sellers impact on gameplay. Alot of those bots mining where players with several accounts because this games roots all start with minerals needed for everything near enough. Again your argument is invalid.
PsYcHoGBR said: your argument carries no substance you show no proof that gold sellers do not affect the economy and yet you defend it with nothing ? I'm pretty sure that wiki does alot of research to make sure their facts are correct yet you question it ?
Um...did you read the link I posted? CCP representative explicitely stated and even provided the graph to show how little impact the bots had on the market after they were banned.
Not enough? What evidence you have to disprove it?
That's because CCP took over the business of RMT over the bots. The people that were buying from illegal sources just switched to buying PLEXs. I am not really against RMT myself, unless it gives too much of an advantages. In EVE it never bothered me. Because bigger ships and more money was never a sure win. I'd set the line just past Archeage. If you are crazy enough you could buy yourself a win in Archeage but the amount of money was so high that the .0001% doing it would most likely never affect me. BDO is a lot safer than Archeage or even EVE on that front, what you can buy in the cash shop is inconsequential, and will never provide a sure win.
Games where RMT is bad, anything made by R2Games are good examples.
Is that it ? Eve online ? FYI I played Eve for 3-4 years. Your whole argument is based on Eve ? I gave you several links including wiki stating that gold sellers impact economy and you come back with someone at CCP talking about Eve's economy which is huge part of this game. This statement you talk about is about bots not gold sellers. Nearly every ice field had bots this is nothing to do with gold sellers impact on gameplay. Alot of those bots mining where players with several accounts because this games roots all start with minerals needed for everything near enough. Again your argument is invalid.
I only need one example to prove your theory wrong.
What gold sellers do not use bots...?
The discussion was interesting until you run out of arguments, now it is beyond stupid. Sorry.
Is that it ? Eve online ? FYI I played Eve for 3-4 years. Your whole argument is based on Eve ? I gave you several links including wiki stating that gold sellers impact economy and you come back with someone at CCP talking about Eve's economy which is huge part of this game. This statement you talk about is about bots not gold sellers. Nearly every ice field had bots this is nothing to do with gold sellers impact on gameplay. Alot of those bots mining where players with several accounts because this games roots all start with minerals needed for everything near enough. Again your argument is invalid.
I only need one example to prove your theory wrong.
What gold sellers do not use bots...?
The discussion was interesting until you run out of arguments, now it is beyond stupid. Sorry.
Is that it ? Eve online ? FYI I played Eve for 3-4 years. Your whole argument is based on Eve ? I gave you several links including wiki stating that gold sellers impact economy and you come back with someone at CCP talking about Eve's economy which is huge part of this game. This statement you talk about is about bots not gold sellers. Nearly every ice field had bots this is nothing to do with gold sellers impact on gameplay. Alot of those bots mining where players with several accounts because this games roots all start with minerals needed for everything near enough. Again your argument is invalid.
I only need one example to prove your theory wrong.
What gold sellers do not use bots...?
The discussion was interesting until you run out of arguments, now it is beyond stupid. Sorry.
You clearly have no idea how the illegal RMT traders work in Eve.
In addition to annoying and channeling profits to third parties RMT has three other consequences. Firstly since these transactions were largely undetectable their mere existence cast doubt on the accomplishments of all players regardless of whether they used RMT or not....
Secondly RMT can disrupt a virtual economy by inducing inflation including a special form known colloquially as MUDflation the process by which virtual assets lose value.....
The final effect of RMT is that it inhibits the effectiveness of the faucet-drain system. RMT only benefits the those who sell it and the players who sell their virtual assets in-game to buyers who have financed their virtual selves with RMT...
The full text and references and footnotes are on the the page I linked . You can read them for yourself.
Sorry to intrude but I just wanted to say that even if you brought god himself and made him say RMT has indeed impacted economy on many mmos (Neverwinter for instance) he would still deny it.
I say give up this debate as it won't be going anywhere.
Is that it ? Eve online ? FYI I played Eve for 3-4 years. Your whole argument is based on Eve ? I gave you several links including wiki stating that gold sellers impact economy and you come back with someone at CCP talking about Eve's economy which is huge part of this game. This statement you talk about is about bots not gold sellers. Nearly every ice field had bots this is nothing to do with gold sellers impact on gameplay. Alot of those bots mining where players with several accounts because this games roots all start with minerals needed for everything near enough. Again your argument is invalid.
I only need one example to prove your theory wrong.
What gold sellers do not use bots...?
The discussion was interesting until you run out of arguments, now it is beyond stupid. Sorry.
You clearly have no idea how the illegal RMT traders work in Eve.
I don't think he understands how RMT works in any game.
Eve is a fucking boring ass game by the way. I don't see why people would even defend it. You literally do nothing. It's nothing more then point and click for the most part. Fucking horrible.
I'm all for it, inflation or no. Keep it out of my face. RMT is just another immersion breaking facet I'd rather not see. If BDO can keep it out of my game, I'll stay and play much longer.
Comments
It makes the cash shop your "gold seller" that's the downside to this sort of system. You have to wonder, how much of this move was down to maximising cash shop profit.
I liked the game but I won't be pretending the game is something it isn't. It is progression driven themepark like any other and it is all fine, I enjoyed it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_economy
Second, I think we have already went through that "rhetorics". Why do you prefer to theory craft instead of taking the evidence available?
It is just that most economies are inflationary by design, they are not complex enough to distribute the wealth within the player base.
Just check wiki to find out what it takes just to build a single module you fit on your ship:
https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Tech_2_component_production
It will unlikely make much lot of sense to you but you actually might get some glimpse how extremely simple "other" economies are.
The thing is, each step in this chart represents content in EVE. No matter what you are doing in the game, you are contributing to this scheme.
...and that is just a ship module.
Not enough? What evidence you have to disprove it?
Games where RMT is bad, anything made by R2Games are good examples.
What gold sellers do not use bots...?
The discussion was interesting until you run out of arguments, now it is beyond stupid. Sorry.
This book by Robin Mansell and Peng Hwa Ang list out the three fold impact.
https://books.google.it/books?id=SVmsCQAAQBAJ&pg=PA1272&lpg=PA1272&dq=what+is+the+most+damaging+aspect+of+RMT+in+games&source=bl&ots=6peT_Y5D47&sig=15A4unuNNmkvc1aA0kH7Jg16OHY&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj_-t-UoJbLAhUJbRQKHT9KBq4Q6AEIHDAA#v=onepage&q=what%20is%20the%20most%20damaging%20aspect%20of%20RMT%20in%20games&f=false
In addition to annoying and channeling profits to third parties RMT has three other consequences. Firstly since these transactions were largely undetectable their mere existence cast doubt on the accomplishments of all players regardless of whether they used RMT or not....
Secondly RMT can disrupt a virtual economy by inducing inflation including a special form known colloquially as MUDflation the process by which virtual assets lose value.....
The final effect of RMT is that it inhibits the effectiveness of the faucet-drain system. RMT only benefits the those who sell it and the players who sell their virtual assets in-game to buyers who have financed their virtual selves with RMT...
The full text and references and footnotes are on the the page I linked . You can read them for yourself.
I say give up this debate as it won't be going anywhere.
Eve is a fucking boring ass game by the way. I don't see why people would even defend it. You literally do nothing. It's nothing more then point and click for the most part. Fucking horrible.