You cant craft costumes! This: https://bdofashion.wordpress.com/category/crafted-sets/ is what you can craft (not all of them are in our version of the game yet) They are only called Costumes cause they are to stupid to translate Korean correctly (They are called outfits or something like that in Korean writing it 's the same word as for the Cash Shop Costumes). It's Profession Armor or clothing and gives a bonus for the Profession it was made for this goes in to the Armor slot and not in to the Costume slot and it's only useful for crafting or the profession it was made for it doesn't have any combat stats. You can actually make real Costumes from those with Costume Tokens which is a Cash Shop item we don't have in our Shop atm.
It's just an opinion of mine, but these outfits look much better than the cash shop constumes. They blend well with the rest of the world's art.
I will be very frank I am not going to play Black Desert Online because I am a little carebear and am afraid of PvP and I am horrible at action games but everything else about the game really makes me want to buy it. If I did I would support the game wholeheartedly because good games deserve our support when we can support them. Or else like City Of Heroes and Vanguard they will get shut down.
When you say I'm not going to support them because I don't like how grubby they are being you are basically cutting your nose to spite your face. In the end think about what you want to support and how the current MMORPG market is like and what the future holds.
So for every month after you buy the game how does Daum pay their employees ?
The same way companies like Bungie, Bioware, CD Projekct Red, FromSoft, Bethesda, etc etc etc pay their employees. The box price of a game should reflect the costs associated with creating the product (like labor) as well as profit margin. I'm not sure how you think products are priced, but it would be monumentally stupid to release a game with an expected lifespan of X where the retail price only covers the first month. Unless Daum is run by preschoolers, I imagine they understand the fundamentals of business and economics.
That isn't to say that they shouldn't have a cash shop, if people are willing to spend more money, it would be stupid to stop them from doing so. I think people's beef is that a major customization option normally included (or at least partially included) in most games is behind a paywall. I'm all for supporting games you like, but this does seem a bit much.
So customization has become a major point now is it. So P2W is okay then as long as customization is not touched. Am I to understand that you @Rusque would prefer the F2P version they offered in Korea with its P2W elements as long as you get all the customization they had there.
So those companies manage fine but they keep releasing DLCs. Does BDO have DLCs too? The companies you mentioned also have recognizable franchises that sells itself but BDO is a new IP. Also as @Gdemami said those companies do not make MMORPG...very sneaky of you. Nice catch .
I just felt like bitching about something, thougt I know BDO forums on mmorpg.com, couldn't think of anything good to say so I just said f2p, p2w, and damnit cosmetics are too expensive
The same way companies like Bungie, Bioware, CD Projekct Red, FromSoft, Bethesda, etc etc etc pay their employees. The box price of a game should reflect the costs associated with creating the product (like labor) as well as profit margin. I'm not sure how you think products are priced, but it would be monumentally stupid to release a game with an expected lifespan of X where the retail price only covers the first month. Unless Daum is run by preschoolers, I imagine they understand the fundamentals of business and economics.
Speaking of fundamental business and economics.. How many people do you think would pay 100 or even 200 bucks for a box, 500 for premium? Because that is what top budget MMOs development costs are, up to 4x times more than offline games.
People do not care what your production or operational costs are, they only pay as much as they want.
That is the bottom line of any business, from there you have to think how better you can monetize your product. Given high production costs of MMO development, only viable model is long term revenue stream - cash shops that has now replaced subscriptions.
MMOs are long term ventures, unless you dramatically cut your costs, there is no way around it.
The same way companies like Bungie, Bioware, CD Projekct Red, FromSoft, Bethesda, etc etc etc pay their employees. The box price of a game should reflect the costs associated with creating the product (like labor) as well as profit margin. I'm not sure how you think products are priced, but it would be monumentally stupid to release a game with an expected lifespan of X where the retail price only covers the first month. Unless Daum is run by preschoolers, I imagine they understand the fundamentals of business and economics.
Speaking of fundamental business and economics.. How many people do you think would pay 100 or even 200 bucks for a box, 500 for premium? Because that is what top budget MMOs development costs are, up to 4x times more than offline games.
People do not care what your production or operational costs are, they only pay as much as they want.
That is the bottom line of any business, from there you have to think how better you can monetize your product. Given high production costs of MMO development, only viable model is long term revenue stream - cash shops that has now replaced subscriptions.
MMOs are long term ventures, unless you dramatically cut your costs, there is no way around it.
I really hope subs come back, but I don't think they will. I think Devs have discovered that by releasing the game as free (or in this case cheap) but with an aggressive cash shop, even if your game doesn't do as well as expected, you can cover your losses with whale cash shop purchases. If the game does do well, then all the better. Either way, you mitigate a lot of risk by using cash shop over sub. And with a cash shop you can always boost revenue artificially any time you want/need to by releasing a must-have item. That is pretty unfortunate for us because it's got us all by the balls.
It really is however the only reason I haven't bought the game. If they released with a cash shop I find this annoying, the future can only be worse. I'm sticking with Blade and Soul where I can play the game whenever I want and not feel like my balls are being crushed by the cash shop.
Anyway, you're right that they have to cover costs, but somehow Guild Wars released as B2P and a cash shop without offending anybody. And it's made tons of money. It got $60 off of me and I think I played the game for a total of 2 days I hated it so much.
I think Daum overestimated the value we'd see of releasing the game for a low cost but putting stuff behind paywalls. I personally think they'd have been better off releasing the game for 50 or 60 bucks but giving you at least one pet and having more things we expect in MMOs like changing gear.
That might not have been possible though since the game was built for f2p.
You are asking for free costumes because you are asking for more variety which they provide for in the cash shop. Let's face it you do not want the F2P version with its P2W elements but refuse to support the game in its B2P version by buying costumes. Instead you want to create an issue here with your selfish demands.
You'd have a good point, but they said they will allow cash shop sales in the marketplace after the launch phase. So it's only not p2w for now, and nobody knows how long "now" is, but most suspect it won't be for that long.
So customization has become a major point now is it. So P2W is okay then as long as customization is not touched. Am I to understand that you @Rusque would prefer the F2P version they offered in Korea with its P2W elements as long as you get all the customization they had there.
So those companies manage fine but they keep releasing DLCs. Does BDO have DLCs too? The companies you mentioned also have recognizable franchises that sells itself but BDO is a new IP. Also as @Gdemami said those companies do not make MMORPG...very sneaky of you. Nice catch .
The same way companies like Bungie, Bioware, CD Projekct Red, FromSoft, Bethesda, etc etc etc pay their employees. The box price of a game should reflect the costs associated with creating the product (like labor) as well as profit margin. I'm not sure how you think products are priced, but it would be monumentally stupid to release a game with an expected lifespan of X where the retail price only covers the first month. Unless Daum is run by preschoolers, I imagine they understand the fundamentals of business and economics.
Speaking of fundamental business and economics.. How many people do you think would pay 100 or even 200 bucks for a box, 500 for premium? Because that is what top budget MMOs development costs are, up to 4x times more than offline games.
People do not care what your production or operational costs are, they only pay as much as they want.
That is the bottom line of any business, from there you have to think how better you can monetize your product. Given high production costs of MMO development, only viable model is long term revenue stream - cash shops that has now replaced subscriptions.
MMOs are long term ventures, unless you dramatically cut your costs, there is no way around it.
@cheyana - Yes, customization is very important to lots of people, probably more people than those who don't care about it. Which is why CS is more popular after it started selling weapon skins, gameplay didn't change, but now you can have a pink AWP. Didn't say I would prefer any version of the game, you're acting like they won't have money if they don't lock away character looks behind a pay wall. It's like, costumes or P2W, which is it? That's both silly and avoiding the fact that they could have various non-p2w gold sink, some of which include costumes, while at the same time offering some to be earned through playing the game itself. Will BDO have DLC's? I sure hope so. They're commonly referred to as expansions and it's normal to charge for them.
@Gdemami - So price elasticity doesn't exist in your world? Also, as I said to cheyana, I wasn't advocating removal of the shop, I know they need (and want) more money, I get it. People are specifically pointing out that it's dumb that they have no option for how their character looks outside the shop. That's very different from saying, close the shop, everything should be free!!!
"Cash Shop items will not be possible to sell on the marketplace at launch phase"
Not always. GW2 for one gold means very little because there is no end game items. Just end game skins. So buying power with gold just does not work. Is that the case here?
Nobody here has the breakdown on what items sells on GW2 cash shop. How many of those are outfits and how many are gathering tools and stones and keys. Plus they have a cash gem direct exchange for gold in game. Using GW2 cash shop as a standard for a different game that has a lower B2P price and also probably higher cost of development based on the graphics and open world does not prove anything.
If you allow people only limited customization in game it forces them to buy from the cash shop. The whole idea behind the cash shop is to sell. It is not there for players to avoid it by getting items in the game.
Further as far as I know BDO has not had an expansion yet since it released in 2014 in Korea. So your point about expansion and DLC is moot. Further more who are you to decide how much money they should make by comparing it to the profits GW2 earn. Asking for arbitrary limits on their capacity to earn on the game they created and that they should follow GW2 is not advice any game company is going to follow.
You people argue like this is your game and you have some say on how they should run their cash shop. The only thing you can do is decide if the game is worth playing with the customization limitations.
"Cash Shop items will not be possible to sell on the marketplace at launch phase"
Not always. GW2 for one gold means very little because there is no end game items. Just end game skins. So buying power with gold just does not work. Is that the case here?
No, it is not the case here. Getting the endgame item is actually very easy. Upgrading it is the hard and important part, and you just need silver to do it.
"If we decide to enable selling Cash Shop Items at a later stage, there
will be control mechanisms that will prevent players from heavily
profiting and gaining an advantage by repetitively selling Cash Items on
the marketplace"
That's true they did say that, and one would hope they could limit p2w. I suspect it will be a pandora's box though when they allow sales in the marketplace.
Nobody here has the breakdown on what items sells on GW2 cash shop. How many of those are outfits and how many are gathering tools and stones and keys. Plus they have a cash gem direct exchange for gold in game. Using GW2 cash shop as a standard for a different game that has a lower B2P price and also probably higher cost of development based on the graphics and open world does not prove anything.
If you allow people only limited customization in game it forces them to buy from the cash shop. The whole idea behind the cash shop is to sell. It is not there for players to avoid it by getting items in the game.
Further as far as I know BDO has not had an expansion yet since it released in 2014 in Korea. So your point about expansion and DLC is moot. Further more who are you to decide how much money they should make by comparing it to the profits GW2 earn. Asking for arbitrary limits on their capacity to earn on the game they created and that they should follow GW2 is not advice any game company is going to follow.
You people argue like this is your game and you have some say on how they should run their cash shop. The only thing you can do is decide if the game is worth playing with the customization limitations.
I believe Daum would be extremely happy if they make as much as GW2 has in the West.
You're right though that you can't really compare the two because the gear system is different. GW2 is more traditional in that you have to go out and get your end game gear, you don't just make it using currency.
I'm playing the crap out of this game. I like it... and yes the pearl shop prices are too high and so are the loyalty shop prices. 1000 loyalty points that take a week or so to get for 1 extra inventory slot on 1 character? Lol.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Well, just wait and see the prices that people put the cash shop items for. Obviously people will put items up for metric shit-ton of silver.
You're right though, it could potentially not be that bad. The true telling point will be if they put in the item that increases your upgrade chance in the cash shop. So far we don't have it.
Rusque said: @Gdemami - So price elasticity doesn't exist in your world? Also, as I said to cheyana, I wasn't advocating removal of the shop, I know they need (and want) more money, I get it. People are specifically pointing out that it's dumb that they have no option for how their character looks outside the shop. That's very different from saying, close the shop, everything should be free!!!
It is better to avoid terms you are not 100% sure what they mean...
You weren't advocating removal of shop, you were advocating price bieng derived from production costs and I pointed out how wrong that is. There is only one factor setting prices - customers.
Rusque said: @Gdemami - So price elasticity doesn't exist in your world? Also, as I said to cheyana, I wasn't advocating removal of the shop, I know they need (and want) more money, I get it. People are specifically pointing out that it's dumb that they have no option for how their character looks outside the shop. That's very different from saying, close the shop, everything should be free!!!
It is better to avoid terms you are not 100% sure what they mean...
You weren't advocating removal of shop, you were advocating price bieng derived from production costs and I pointed out how wrong that is. There is only one factor setting prices - customers.
No I wasn't. Not even a little. I was responding to the other guy who was claiming that box price covers the first month which I said was a terrible way to price your product (because it is).
And speaking of avoiding terms if you don't know what they mean, you should really take your own advice, because in the same breath you say there is one factor in setting prices "customers" which is completely contrary to your statement of "box prices would have to be $100-$500 because costs are so much higher these days." Which is why I pointed out that you are completely leaving out price elasticity. It's like you agree with me, but also disagree with yourself. Prices wouldn't be $100-$500 because of higher development costs, specifically because the more customers you have, the lower price you can set.
Rusque said: No I wasn't. Not even a little. I was responding to the other guy who was claiming that box price covers the first month which I said was a terrible way to price your product (because it is).
And speaking of avoiding terms if you don't know what they mean, you should really take your own advice, because in the same breath you say there is one factor in setting prices "customers" which is completely contrary to your statement of "box prices would have to be $100-$500 because costs are so much higher these days." Which is why I pointed out that you are completely leaving out price elasticity. It's like you agree with me, but also disagree with yourself. Prices wouldn't be $100-$500 because of higher development costs, specifically because the more customers you have, the lower price you can set.
The box price of a game should reflect the costs associated with creating the product (like labor) as well as profit margin.
How many people do you think would pay 100 or even 200 bucks for a box, 500 for premium? Because that is what top budget MMOs development costs are, up to 4x times more than offline games.
If box price should reflect production costs, it would need to cost 4x more than offline games. Not going to happen.
Given how saturated and varied the market is, the price is very elastic thus peole are not going to pay higher price, they just swicth to other product.
You either do not understand what price elasticity in demand means at all or it means something different than you think it means...
Comments
When you say I'm not going to support them because I don't like how grubby they are being you are basically cutting your nose to spite your face. In the end think about what you want to support and how the current MMORPG market is like and what the future holds.
That isn't to say that they shouldn't have a cash shop, if people are willing to spend more money, it would be stupid to stop them from doing so. I think people's beef is that a major customization option normally included (or at least partially included) in most games is behind a paywall. I'm all for supporting games you like, but this does seem a bit much.
So those companies manage fine but they keep releasing DLCs. Does BDO have DLCs too? The companies you mentioned also have recognizable franchises that sells itself but BDO is a new IP. Also as @Gdemami said those companies do not make MMORPG...very sneaky of you. Nice catch .
People do not care what your production or operational costs are, they only pay as much as they want.
That is the bottom line of any business, from there you have to think how better you can monetize your product. Given high production costs of MMO development, only viable model is long term revenue stream - cash shops that has now replaced subscriptions.
MMOs are long term ventures, unless you dramatically cut your costs, there is no way around it.
It really is however the only reason I haven't bought the game. If they released with a cash shop I find this annoying, the future can only be worse. I'm sticking with Blade and Soul where I can play the game whenever I want and not feel like my balls are being crushed by the cash shop.
Anyway, you're right that they have to cover costs, but somehow Guild Wars released as B2P and a cash shop without offending anybody. And it's made tons of money. It got $60 off of me and I think I played the game for a total of 2 days I hated it so much.
I think Daum overestimated the value we'd see of releasing the game for a low cost but putting stuff behind paywalls. I personally think they'd have been better off releasing the game for 50 or 60 bucks but giving you at least one pet and having more things we expect in MMOs like changing gear.
That might not have been possible though since the game was built for f2p.
Ignored the rest of your rant....
You'd have a good point, but they said they will allow cash shop sales in the marketplace after the launch phase. So it's only not p2w for now, and nobody knows how long "now" is, but most suspect it won't be for that long.
"Official link?"
http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/8038-pm-diary-22-cash-shop-and-more/
"Cash Shop items will not be possible to sell on the marketplace at launch phase"
@Gdemami - So price elasticity doesn't exist in your world? Also, as I said to cheyana, I wasn't advocating removal of the shop, I know they need (and want) more money, I get it. People are specifically pointing out that it's dumb that they have no option for how their character looks outside the shop. That's very different from saying, close the shop, everything should be free!!!
If you allow people only limited customization in game it forces them to buy from the cash shop. The whole idea behind the cash shop is to sell. It is not there for players to avoid it by getting items in the game.
Further as far as I know BDO has not had an expansion yet since it released in 2014 in Korea. So your point about expansion and DLC is moot. Further more who are you to decide how much money they should make by comparing it to the profits GW2 earn. Asking for arbitrary limits on their capacity to earn on the game they created and that they should follow GW2 is not advice any game company is going to follow.
You people argue like this is your game and you have some say on how they should run their cash shop. The only thing you can do is decide if the game is worth playing with the customization limitations.
That's true they did say that, and one would hope they could limit p2w. I suspect it will be a pandora's box though when they allow sales in the marketplace.
I believe Daum would be extremely happy if they make as much as GW2 has in the West.
You're right though that you can't really compare the two because the gear system is different. GW2 is more traditional in that you have to go out and get your end game gear, you don't just make it using currency.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
You're right though, it could potentially not be that bad. The true telling point will be if they put in the item that increases your upgrade chance in the cash shop. So far we don't have it.
You weren't advocating removal of shop, you were advocating price bieng derived from production costs and I pointed out how wrong that is. There is only one factor setting prices - customers.
No I wasn't. Not even a little. I was responding to the other guy who was claiming that box price covers the first month which I said was a terrible way to price your product (because it is).
And speaking of avoiding terms if you don't know what they mean, you should really take your own advice, because in the same breath you say there is one factor in setting prices "customers" which is completely contrary to your statement of "box prices would have to be $100-$500 because costs are so much higher these days." Which is why I pointed out that you are completely leaving out price elasticity. It's like you agree with me, but also disagree with yourself. Prices wouldn't be $100-$500 because of higher development costs, specifically because the more customers you have, the lower price you can set.
Am I taking crazy pills or are you drunk?
If box price should reflect production costs, it would need to cost 4x more than offline games. Not going to happen.
Given how saturated and varied the market is, the price is very elastic thus peole are not going to pay higher price, they just swicth to other product.
You either do not understand what price elasticity in demand means at all or it means something different than you think it means...