I played both those games. DAOC was horrible the PvE. Very boring stuff. I think that game was good for the RvR but PvE was a snoozefest. FFXI beyond level 15 or so I think from what I recall you could not solo at all. That is not difficult PvE that is just making things so you had to group. Everquest you could solo but you had to be clever and good to really not die and lose more experience than you gain.
I found DAOC pve a lot of fun, met a lot of great people, because you needed other people. There was more to DAOC pve then a lot of people realized. FFXI as well, and it was very harsh with death. I guess our idea of what difficult pve is different. I think needing other people, makes it difficult. Not sure how soloing everything makes anything difficult.
I grouped a lot in Everquest and it was very very fun and difficult. I just said that the PvE in Everquest was a lot more difficult. DAOC was not at all difficult in my book even in groups and it was very boring after Everquest . FFXI I never soloed basically was always grouped and played a Red Mage. I just have my own idea on what is difficult and we can just agree to disagree.
I think the problem for me after Everquest and then playing DAOC I just found the PvE in that game really poor and I recall the VN Boards many people thought the same when it was in beta. They had a lot of classes though but the mechanics in Everquest were more exciting and dangerous and perhaps punishing.So coming from that DAOC was easy.
On a side note, you definitely COULD solo in DAOC and FFXI, you just had to be extremely careful and pick your spots, and be good. No different then your definition of "difficult"
While I haven't died a lot in this game I think the key to pve is that one is not supposed to be fighting one mob at a time but several.
Which is very fun for me.
There are these "tougher" elite mobs that seem to be in certain areas and that are difficult to take down. I've been fighting reds in groups and if one of those elite mobs comes it ends up being quite amusing.
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I don't recall in either game losing your level when you died or hours of experience.
FFXI you sure did lose your level. I was level 50 on my warrior, then 49 at least 10 times. It was very harsh. DAOC no you didn t, just getting back what you earned took a long time. If you could get your tombstone you would get some back, but good luck getting it back most of the time. I m not saying eq1 was easy at all, I m just saying those 2 we re just as difficult.
I cannot remember that wow so long ago I played I forgot that about FFXI. Thanks for reminding me. Well I will agree FFXI was a solid game and yes difficult especially the damn stupid level limit quests I spent two weeks in that damn dungeon for the quest to help me get over the level limit.
May be I hardly died I was always with static groups so we were quite careful and being a red mage I was in very high demand. I don't remember that sorry.
DAOC I won't agree that game the PvE just plain sucked for me.
In fact when they were doing Warhammer it was a running joke that their PvE sucked just like it did in DAOC.
The only MMO I ever played that had difficult PVE was Age of Conan raiding. Tier 3 through Tier 6 raiding in that game is incredibly technical and requires every person to be on their toes and doing their job. The simplest mistake of one player will wipe a raid.
Hathor Ka in Tier 3 was known as the Guild killer. Many guilds who were rolling through Tier 1 and Tier 2 content were smashed to pieces by that one boss. Not because she's hard, but because even one person who requires "carrying" will wipe the raid in that fight. So wipe after wipe, and then people start calling out the sandbags by name, then their friends get mad cause you called their boy a shit player and suddenly you have two guilds instead of one.
I went from AoC to SWTOR nightmare modes and I couldn't believe people were calling that trash raiding "hard" after playing AoC. I guess it's just what you get used to.
I think wow level 60 cap was pretty hard first off.
I tried Age of Conana, yeah, it felt hard, but something made me quit that game at level 30, i forgot why. I tried AOC when the boxed version got launched in stores so very early. I'm sure the game got better by then, but how is the population? I know there was way too much invisible wall which makes the game not feel very open imo and too much instanced zones.
I disliked Battlegrounds in AOC. I think there was too much roots, stuns and imbalance early on.
AOC had the potential to be the best mmorpg ever, but some design that make the game feel more like an online single player than a mmorpg is what made the game fell off i think.
At that time, i think focussing on graphics was not a good idea because it was easy to see the limitation of AOC based on that.
Finally, i would still rather play aoc than a lot of mmo's we got nowadays in the market simply because yeah, it felt like it was the hardest mmo in pve.
From 1 to 50 if you it'll be groups I would say it's more challenging than most MMO tbh. If I take one wrong step I will die in a second or two, so I can't really relax ever. But that's when pulling big groups. However MMO are pretty much never challenging so that doesn't really say much. BAM grinding in Tera is the only challenging content I can think of..
Bottom line though is, don't play mmos if you crave a pve challenge.
I don't like that advice at all. There are hard mmo's out there.
Wow 60 cap was pretty hard. AOC is still hard enough i think. Ragnarok online is still hard, but a grind-fest.
It's true that there's only a very few hard mmo's, but everyone can put a crazy amount of hours in an mmo so 1 good mmo that suits you best is better than more if you see what i mean. So i'm looking for the perfect one in which i will spend the rest of my life playing.
From 1 to 50 if you it'll be groups I would say it's more challenging than most MMO tbh. If I take one wrong step I will die in a second or two, so I can't really relax ever. But that's when pulling big groups. However MMO are pretty much never challenging so that doesn't really say much. BAM grinding in Tera is the only challenging content I can think of..
Bottom line though is, don't play mmos if you crave a pve challenge.
So i'm looking for the perfect one in which i will spend the rest of my life playing.
From 1 to 50 if you it'll be groups I would say it's more challenging than most MMO tbh. If I take one wrong step I will die in a second or two, so I can't really relax ever. But that's when pulling big groups. However MMO are pretty much never challenging so that doesn't really say much. BAM grinding in Tera is the only challenging content I can think of..
Bottom line though is, don't play mmos if you crave a pve challenge.
I don't like that advice at all. There are hard mmo's out there.
Wow 60 cap was pretty hard. AOC is still hard enough i think. Ragnarok online is still hard, but a grind-fest.
It's true that there's only a very few hard mmo's, but everyone can put a crazy amount of hours in an mmo so 1 good mmo that suits you best is better than more if you see what i mean. So i'm looking for the perfect one in which i will spend the rest of my life playing.
While I get what you are saying there is no perfect mmo. you are just going to have to find one that has things that keep you logging in and accept that.
Otherwise you will be waiting a long time and by that I mean indefinitely.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
They actually made the Mobs a bit more aggressive then in the beta from what i saw (it was also in the patch notes) had to start chucking potions on my tamer around lvl 18 or so while i never used even 1 till lvl 35 (but on a sorc) in the beta. It doesn't really seem much easier then most other MMOs out there now to me while leveling.
They actually made the Mobs a bit more aggressive then in the beta from what i saw (it was also in the patch notes) had to start chucking potions on my tamer around lvl 18 or so while i never used even 1 till lvl 35 in the beta. It doesn't really seem much easier then most other MMOs out there now to me while leveling.
The mobs are kinda "cool" only until level 10-12 (approx.)... after that, they start to see you as the enemy and you can quite quickly be flooded in nasty places.
Yes i know that and that wasn't what i meant, the dmg i took was a lot less in beta could be related to me playing a different class now but as i said they also had something in the patch notes about that.
It depends on class quite a bit since it's all AOE grinding. Some classes like the Wiz have effective AOE skills right from the beginning. Others like the Ranger don't even have decent AOE till level 20 - I have a level 30 Wizard and level 25 Ranger at the moment. Leveling them was like night and day for the first 20 levels. Now they're both able to grind about the same.
It's also like any other MMO in that what level relative to you the mobs are determines how difficult (as in time consuming and need to mitigate damage) it is. Then there are the random "violent" spawns - their name for "elite" that can come along at any time right there with the pack of 8-10 you are fighting (incidentally, the hawk pet has an ability that highlights those when they spawn) that add some spice.
Lower level bosses can be soloed for the challenge although they are suggested co-op. They start off pretty easy but I ran into a level 30 wizard Red Orc with Meteor and Earthquake that handed me my ass the first 2 times I tried him - finally got him on the third try just barely.
It is easy - no question, but it's also enjoyable and satisfying with a lot of kiting and positioning needed to handle large packs.
But hey, if you're an elite member of the 0.001% of gamers, maybe stay away... not that we'll miss you or anything. Go make money playing MOBAs with the pros instead.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
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I recall playing City of Heroes the first time during beta and thinking my god this game is difficult. I think it was probably because I had not come across a game like that where you faced so many mobs like in the sewers. I was overwhelmed by zombies and suddenly swamped on a wrong turn. Also the type of damage and gameplay involving bubbles and classes that had little damage but lots of utility so sometimes we just had not enough blasters and to many controllers and tanks.
I did one of those Task Force and people kept dropping out leaving just three of us and we took like 3 hours to finish it but we used crazy tactics with the Illusion controller among other things tricking the mobs to kill each other. I was thinking this is hard but fun.
Although games like Everquest and FFXI were hard , I think City of Heroes was too. Then City of Villains was hard because of the very little healing and the expectation of players looking for healers made it more difficult.
I knew by just reading the titlke of the post that the OP is one of these PVP e-peeners putting down PVE and PVE players.
I'm sorry, i don't know what you mean. Pls, explain.
I don't put down PVE, i only put it down when the pve is too easy. When a game is too easy, it's just not fun for me. IT's that simple. If pve is too easy, the only part of the game fun for me is the PVP.
In AOC or wow, pvp is only part of the journey. I don't even do battlegrounds in those game because the pve was challenging and fun enough. Again, i mean to say Wow at level 60 cap, pre-BC if you wanna put it that way. Ragnarok online had almost no PVP, it was all pve. Yes, there was a pvp room, but it was meaningless, only for fun. The war of Emperium was only weekly.
And what's the point of dropping the E-peen bomb when i never told you or anyone how i pwn in PVP? I'm not here to prove anything.
I tried Age of Conana, yeah, it felt hard, but something made me quit that game at level 30, i forgot why. I tried AOC when the boxed version got launched in stores so very early. I'm sure the game got better by then, but how is the population?
A lot of people quite around level 30 because that's about when the voice acting stopped. They only voice acted the opening zone of the game, and after that it was only personal quests that got VO love.
The population isn't dead, but it sure isn't going to be on the same level as WoW, SWTOR, TESO, GW2... ect. Too many people want their hands held these days, so games with hard PVE won't be as populated. Just look at WildStar. They made it hard and players fled like rats on a sinking ship.
I disliked Battlegrounds in AOC. I think there was too much roots, stuns and imbalance early on.
Except that the roots and stuns also all have immunities. As in, if you're rooted by a player, then you can't be rooted again for 60 seconds by any other players. You won't find that in SWTOR or a lot of other PVP. SWTOR is a goddamn CC fest in PVP.
AOC had the potential to be the best mmorpg ever, but some design that make the game feel more like an online single player than a mmorpg is what made the game fell off i think.
Not really a whole lot of games out there that aren't designed around single player leveling. It's not really fault of AoC, it's just an industry standard.
At that time, i think focussing on graphics was not a good idea because it was easy to see the limitation of AOC based on that.
I have to respectfully disagree with you here. AoC had the best graphics in the genre for several years and an extremely healthy population for a good two years. This whole idea of pandering to the lowest common denominator in MMO's is really bullshit. People can afford to upgrade their computers to play the game they want to play, but if games keep coming out that let them play on their toaster, then that's exactly what they'll do.
These companies need to just ignore the toaster potato crowd, develop a great looking game, and then say "Hey, wanna join in the fun? Skip the iPhone 42, keep making phone calls on your iPhone 41, upgrade your computer and come play with us!"
Finally, i would still rather play aoc than a lot of mmo's we got nowadays in the market simply because yeah, it felt like it was the hardest mmo in pve.
I can still hear the cheers of elation in my mind from the first time my guild killed Thoth Amon. Good grief is that fight hard, but it's so damn rewarding when you finally get it right.
If a MMORPG offers the players the choice of difficulty instead of forcing them into it, some people will always classify it in the "easy" category. That doesn't mean it is.
A good example is WoW. Many people bash that game and classify it as easy, yet none of those have actually done the hardest content in that game.
Comments
I found DAOC pve a lot of fun, met a lot of great people, because you needed other people. There was more to DAOC pve then a lot of people realized. FFXI as well, and it was very harsh with death. I guess our idea of what difficult pve is different. I think needing other people, makes it difficult. Not sure how soloing everything makes anything difficult.
I think the problem for me after Everquest and then playing DAOC I just found the PvE in that game really poor and I recall the VN Boards many people thought the same when it was in beta. They had a lot of classes though but the mechanics in Everquest were more exciting and dangerous and perhaps punishing.So coming from that DAOC was easy.
Which is very fun for me.
There are these "tougher" elite mobs that seem to be in certain areas and that are difficult to take down. I've been fighting reds in groups and if one of those elite mobs comes it ends up being quite amusing.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
FFXI you sure did lose your level. I was level 50 on my warrior, then 49 at least 10 times. It was very harsh. DAOC no you didn t, just getting back what you earned took a long time. If you could get your tombstone you would get some back, but good luck getting it back most of the time. I m not saying eq1 was easy at all, I m just saying those 2 we re just as difficult.
May be I hardly died I was always with static groups so we were quite careful and being a red mage I was in very high demand. I don't remember that sorry.
DAOC I won't agree that game the PvE just plain sucked for me.
In fact when they were doing Warhammer it was a running joke that their PvE sucked just like it did in DAOC.
I tried Age of Conana, yeah, it felt hard, but something made me quit that game at level 30, i forgot why. I tried AOC when the boxed version got launched in stores so very early. I'm sure the game got better by then, but how is the population?
I know there was way too much invisible wall which makes the game not feel very open imo and too much instanced zones.
I disliked Battlegrounds in AOC. I think there was too much roots, stuns and imbalance early on.
AOC had the potential to be the best mmorpg ever, but some design that make the game feel more like an online single player than a mmorpg is what made the game fell off i think.
At that time, i think focussing on graphics was not a good idea because it was easy to see the limitation of AOC based on that.
Finally, i would still rather play aoc than a lot of mmo's we got nowadays in the market simply because yeah, it felt like it was the hardest mmo in pve.
C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif
Wow 60 cap was pretty hard. AOC is still hard enough i think. Ragnarok online is still hard, but a grind-fest.
It's true that there's only a very few hard mmo's, but everyone can put a crazy amount of hours in an mmo so 1 good mmo that suits you best is better than more if you see what i mean.
So i'm looking for the perfect one in which i will spend the rest of my life playing.
C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif
Otherwise you will be waiting a long time and by that I mean indefinitely.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
It doesn't really seem much easier then most other MMOs out there now to me while leveling.
want 7 free days of playing? Try this
http://www.swtor.com/r/ZptVnY
It's also like any other MMO in that what level relative to you the mobs are determines how difficult (as in time consuming and need to mitigate damage) it is. Then there are the random "violent" spawns - their name for "elite" that can come along at any time right there with the pack of 8-10 you are fighting (incidentally, the hawk pet has an ability that highlights those when they spawn) that add some spice.
Lower level bosses can be soloed for the challenge although they are suggested co-op. They start off pretty easy but I ran into a level 30 wizard Red Orc with Meteor and Earthquake that handed me my ass the first 2 times I tried him - finally got him on the third try just barely.
It is easy - no question, but it's also enjoyable and satisfying with a lot of kiting and positioning needed to handle large packs.
But hey, if you're an elite member of the 0.001% of gamers, maybe stay away... not that we'll miss you or anything. Go make money playing MOBAs with the pros instead.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I did one of those Task Force and people kept dropping out leaving just three of us and we took like 3 hours to finish it but we used crazy tactics with the Illusion controller among other things tricking the mobs to kill each other. I was thinking this is hard but fun.
Although games like Everquest and FFXI were hard , I think City of Heroes was too. Then City of Villains was hard because of the very little healing and the expectation of players looking for healers made it more difficult.
I don't put down PVE, i only put it down when the pve is too easy. When a game is too easy, it's just not fun for me. IT's that simple. If pve is too easy, the only part of the game fun for me is the PVP.
In AOC or wow, pvp is only part of the journey. I don't even do battlegrounds in those game because the pve was challenging and fun enough. Again, i mean to say Wow at level 60 cap, pre-BC if you wanna put it that way.
Ragnarok online had almost no PVP, it was all pve. Yes, there was a pvp room, but it was meaningless, only for fun. The war of Emperium was only weekly.
And what's the point of dropping the E-peen bomb when i never told you or anyone how i pwn in PVP? I'm not here to prove anything.
C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif
The population isn't dead, but it sure isn't going to be on the same level as WoW, SWTOR, TESO, GW2... ect. Too many people want their hands held these days, so games with hard PVE won't be as populated. Just look at WildStar. They made it hard and players fled like rats on a sinking ship.
Except that the roots and stuns also all have immunities. As in, if you're rooted by a player, then you can't be rooted again for 60 seconds by any other players. You won't find that in SWTOR or a lot of other PVP. SWTOR is a goddamn CC fest in PVP.
Not really a whole lot of games out there that aren't designed around single player leveling. It's not really fault of AoC, it's just an industry standard.
I have to respectfully disagree with you here. AoC had the best graphics in the genre for several years and an extremely healthy population for a good two years. This whole idea of pandering to the lowest common denominator in MMO's is really bullshit. People can afford to upgrade their computers to play the game they want to play, but if games keep coming out that let them play on their toaster, then that's exactly what they'll do.
These companies need to just ignore the toaster potato crowd, develop a great looking game, and then say "Hey, wanna join in the fun? Skip the iPhone 42, keep making phone calls on your iPhone 41, upgrade your computer and come play with us!"
I can still hear the cheers of elation in my mind from the first time my guild killed Thoth Amon. Good grief is that fight hard, but it's so damn rewarding when you finally get it right.
What are you doing playing MMOs? None of them are even remotely challenging as far as PvE content goes
So What Now?
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