There does not actually have to be a value or income, but hurt of reputation that could lead to those things. Your current accounts do not matter.
Why yes, yes there must be. It's implied in the very page you linked, number "3". "Injury" doesn't just imply hurt feelings, it must have a measurable value.
I can't, for example, sue SmartySmart for $15 million dollars because he falsely accuses my statements to hold no truth or substance. But why? He's hurt not only my feelings, but also my potential to be taken seriously by subsequent readers of this forum, drowning my position and name to, potentially, a lesser reputation...
Well, I get nothing for posting here. I can't establish I have real damages moving forward I would have had otherwise, because I had none previously. In fact, were I to "try" such a thing, Smarty could very easily sue me for malicious litigation, and any resources or value he puts forth into an effort to combat my case can be afforded him, plus damages.
CIG claims they make zero income from "sales". They're "pledges", and you can't deface a promise. Neither Escapist nor I can do anything to affect the sales income from CIG, because they claim that amount is zero. This "pledge" game is a double-edged sword, and the longer the company intentionally delays a release-state product, the more difficult it becomes to defend a position on any front.
The promise and ability to get pledges is based off of their reputation. Thus they could try to prove that by effecting their reputation you have effected future pledges/income. Whether the juice is worth the squeeze in another matter.
Either way we are far from my original point that just because they did not sue for defamation does not mean the original article did not lie. People do not always sue to correct news articles cause the benefit from that lawsuit does not often equal the cost of trying to fight it and it brings more eyes to the original article. It is often easier to try and fight it in the court of public opinion.
I really don't think it's even possible to argue "reputation" purely on the basis people have given them 109 million in supposed "gifts". There needs to be intrinsic value of the product name, and with zero sales, intrinsic value is zero.
I really don't think it's even possible to argue "reputation" purely on the basis people have given them 109 million in supposed "gifts". There needs to be intrinsic value of the product name, and with zero sales, intrinsic value is zero.
Did the article defame the product or the man making the product. Cause then the intrinsic value is to be found in the value of the persons reputation and not a physical product. I.E. an actor is trying for a part and an article comes out that says he is a KKK member. It is false and the actor can not get a job. His defamation suit would be against the lie...the judgement at the end of the suit if he wins would be the income he lost due to the lie. Not that his reputation has not actual value.
In our case CIG would need to show that the article cost them their reputation. That would be what the case is judged on. The Judgement at the end if favorable to CIG would be what has that loss of reputation cost them and that is where CIG would have to show a loss of future pledges which is value to CIG.
In your statement was the 109 million before or after the article? Was there a noticeable slow down in pledges after the article? These are where value would be found.
Hmm, well, the article depicts shady practices within the confines of the company and criticizes company policy, all via the testimony of semi-anonymous "witnesses" or "participants" who were vetted in a questionable manner. Escapist projected a nebulous rendition of abuses and malfeasance, in a third-person perspective, of the behavior of CIG upper echelon as those people perform as that echelon.
The obvious rub is the validity of said witnesses and this is the way the article has largely been ostracized.
Hmm, well, the article depicts shady practices within the confines of the company and criticizes company policy, all via the testimony of semi-anonymous "witnesses" or "participants" who were vetted in a questionable manner. Escapist projected a nebulous rendition of abuses and malfeasance, in a third-person perspective, of the behavior of CIG upper echelon as those people perform as that echelon.
The obvious rub is the validity of said witnesses and this is the way the article has largely been ostracized.
That puts it to a "he said she said" in court. Even if it is a lie is it worth a legal fight that is 50/50? I just do not like people using the fact someone did not sue as proof of guilt.
In your statement was the 109 million before or after the article? Was there a noticeable slow down in pledges after the article? These are where value would be found.
The biggest "slowdown" has been after the holiday season, some 3 months after the article. This could be for obvious reasons of "pledger" gifting or spending gift money, or Robert's wild live fail of interfacing with his own game in mid December. I'd say, "no", to your question, the article was previous to November and December, both of which carried alleged pledge income of over 5mil per month.
Hmm, well, the article depicts shady practices within the confines of the company and criticizes company policy, all via the testimony of semi-anonymous "witnesses" or "participants" who were vetted in a questionable manner. Escapist projected a nebulous rendition of abuses and malfeasance, in a third-person perspective, of the behavior of CIG upper echelon as those people perform as that echelon.
The obvious rub is the validity of said witnesses and this is the way the article has largely been ostracized.
That puts it to a "he said she said" in court. Even if it is a lie is it worth a legal fight that is 50/50? I just do not like people using the fact someone did not sue as proof of guilt.
Well, it doesn't even have to come to that. If CIG really wanted, they could sue Escapist to produce those witnesses, but that also carries a huge punch from the media at large, and that's one pr hit they surely cannot handle.
Hmm, well, the article depicts shady practices within the confines of the company and criticizes company policy, all via the testimony of semi-anonymous "witnesses" or "participants" who were vetted in a questionable manner. Escapist projected a nebulous rendition of abuses and malfeasance, in a third-person perspective, of the behavior of CIG upper echelon as those people perform as that echelon.
The obvious rub is the validity of said witnesses and this is the way the article has largely been ostracized.
That puts it to a "he said she said" in court. Even if it is a lie is it worth a legal fight that is 50/50? I just do not like people using the fact someone did not sue as proof of guilt.
Well, it doesn't even have to come to that. If CIG really wanted, they could sue Escapist to produce those witnesses, but that also carries a huge punch from the media at large, and that's one pr hit they surely cannot handle.
Wonder if their "witnesses" are protected under a Shield Law?
Well, it doesn't even have to come to that. If CIG really wanted, they could sue Escapist to produce those witnesses, but that also carries a huge punch from the media at large, and that's one pr hit they surely cannot handle.
Wonder if their "witnesses" are protected under a Shield Law?
Well, yes, but that's a subject of wide interpretation. Journalistic witnesses are basically "protected until they're not". This can be for a variety of reasons, notably if there's concern involving indictment for one or multiple felonies. Arguably any right or privilege may be curbed for a legitimate reason by a court order, even indeed the right to "life" if one has committed a heinous enough crime in a jurisdiction which allows for capital punishment.
Before we start stringing up people, though, we need to question some really obvious preliminaries. Would Escapist want this kind of problem? Have they elicited this issue before? Has an atmosphere or environment been created by, for, or around Escapist which shows willful intent to hurt CIG simply for the purpose of hurting CIG? If questions along these lines don't lead to some justification of intentional injury for, as people here like to say "reasons", then legislation as "Shield Law" actually work in favor of the media outlet, because it encourages people, who were otherwise intimidated, to tell the truth in a protected format, under the umbrella of the reputation of said media.
If you cannot say "Escapist wants to hurt CIG because it benefits Escapist to hurt CIG", then attacking Escapist, an any manner, is an attack on all press. You should understand, that is a very bad mistake for anyone to make.
Weather any of us believe or want to believe anything at all out of the article,there is one fact that remains.
Over many years of life myself and others for certain have learned that defensive postures usually mean you are hiding something.Instead of just disagreeing or simply giving THEIR side of the story they had to add law suits and threats into it.They became VERY defensive over the article and accusations.
I am not positive of course but i feel if CIG had responded in a more mature manner than just threats of lawsuit they would have come across a lot better.
None the less ,much of the information brought out,i am sure was already in the minds of many observers.MOST fanbois would fail to admit that this guy Chris Roberts has lies in the past and NOT lived up to his promises but seems they want to look the other way and well just be fanbois.I keep reminding people that he pitched this great game on a budget of 6 million,yes of course he has found way to nickle and dime added costs but he has still to this day not finished even the 6 million dollar game he promised he could deliver.Also at this point i would say he is long long past that 6 million and did NOT deliver.
Prolonging game development indefinitely,well yeah of course your eventually going to pull it off,at what cost ,3x the expected budget,when another PROMISE was this platform would save him cost of development when compared to working with investors and publishers like about 3x the savings,so in essence he is going over budget about 6x+.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
If a media entity wrote a piece like the Escapists to any VP of a company there are only 2 outcomes; normally. 1. The media entity is sued to try and get the article retracted. 2. The VP's career is over cause any company will do their due-diligence before hiring an exec and an article like that means you ain't getting hired. The world of execs isn't all that big.
The fact that number 1 hasn't happened means CIG is afraid to actually go to court and go through that process. Which means there were some truth to that article.
And I haven't even touched whatever the actual response was by Chris Roberts. Let me just say, a couple of my friends who practice law read some of it, just smiled and shook their heads. Then they said 'Oh! They have a Lawyer! Puhahahaha!'
It shows what PvP games are really all about, and no, it's not about more realism and immersion. It's about cowards hiding behind a screen to they can bully other defenseless players without any risk of direct retaliation like there would be if they acted like asshats in "real life". -Jean-Luc_Picard
Life itself is a game. So why shouldn't your game be ruined? - justmemyselfandi
If a media entity wrote a piece like the Escapists to any VP of a company there are only 2 outcomes; normally. 1. The media entity is sued to try and get the article retracted. 2. The VP's career is over cause any company will do their due-diligence before hiring an exec and an article like that means you ain't getting hired. The world of execs isn't all that big.
The fact that number 1 hasn't happened means CIG is afraid to actually go to court and go through that process. Which means there were some truth to that article.
And I haven't even touched whatever the actual response was by Chris Roberts. Let me just say, a couple of my friends who practice law read some of it, just smiled and shook their heads. Then they said 'Oh! They have a Lawyer! Puhahahaha!'
If a media entity wrote a piece like the Escapists to any VP of a company there are only 2 outcomes; normally. 1. The media entity is sued to try and get the article retracted. 2. The VP's career is over cause any company will do their due-diligence before hiring an exec and an article like that means you ain't getting hired. The world of execs isn't all that big.
The fact that number 1 hasn't happened means CIG is afraid to actually go to court and go through that process. Which means there were some truth to that article.
And I haven't even touched whatever the actual response was by Chris Roberts. Let me just say, a couple of my friends who practice law read some of it, just smiled and shook their heads. Then they said 'Oh! They have a Lawyer! Puhahahaha!'
Which is the hilarious part and why they laughed. Lawyers (good ones) tend to make sure their client don't write letters like that as that was essentially self-incriminating.
It shows what PvP games are really all about, and no, it's not about more realism and immersion. It's about cowards hiding behind a screen to they can bully other defenseless players without any risk of direct retaliation like there would be if they acted like asshats in "real life". -Jean-Luc_Picard
Life itself is a game. So why shouldn't your game be ruined? - justmemyselfandi
Well, all we've had so far from all the "critics" of SC and CIG are allegations and threats. Often shouted very loudly, because that makes the allegations s more substantial.
Certain parties had even supposedly retained a legal team and served notice on CIG that they were going to start litigation if their demands ween't met. CIG ignored the bluster and nothing came of it.
So much hot air from a small group that have apparently dedicated their lives to bringing down SC and "exposing the truth" about CIG. So far not a single allegation has been proven. It's a bit like asking "Have you stopped abusing your spouse ?" Just answer yes or no.
Well, all we've had so far from all the "critics" of SC and CIG are allegations and threats.
I didn't threaten anyone, nor would I expect to still be able to discuss in forums if I had. Even in the context of litigiousness, I've distanced myself, preferring to discuss the range of CIG options in the matter. If you're going to make comments like this you should specifically say, "This one guy said this and this", not "all the critics".
Any "allegation" I've made is perfectly open to peer review and citation. If there's something I say with which people disagree, I really wish we could talk about it, instead of the mass fracas to stuff me in a barrel and float me down river. Not very fond of that.
Well, all we've had so far from all the "critics" of SC and CIG are allegations and threats.
I didn't threaten anyone, nor would I expect to still be able to discuss in forums if I had. Even in the context of litigiousness, I've distanced myself, preferring to discuss the range of CIG options in the matter. If you're going to make comments like this you should specifically say, "This one guy said this and this", not "all the critics".
Any "allegation" I've made is perfectly open to peer review and citation. If there's something I say with which people disagree, I really wish we could talk about it, instead of the mass fracas to stuff me in a barrel and float me down river. Not very fond of that.
There's nothing left to discuss.
You believe things are a certain way, and I believe they are not. In my comments, you get lumped with the general "anti" crowd, because your allegations are indistinguishable from the rest. They are not unique or insightful.
SC's development is progressing pretty much as I'd expected it would. So far I've not seen anything that would cause me to start signing petitions for federal investigations.
So, has there been much talk in your people's circles about the private investigator hired in October by Chris and Ortwin, to investigate employees and the supposed sources (the ones who were still employees) for the Escapist article leaks? Do you suppose that was paid by backer funds? What do you think about it? If an employee of yours went to press, pseudo-anonymously, to speak ill of your business practices, would you pay to have "everyone" investigated to root out the leak source? Should private emails from company rigs be fair game? Discuss.
Should private emails from company rigs be fair game? Discuss.
Private e-mails using a 3rd party system like hotmail? No.
The best you can really do is block your users from accessing such a site. That is why a lot of places block things like Facebook.
Private e-mails like using the business Outlook/Exchange? Yes.
I have worked at places where the Exchange administrator has had to provide evidence against employees misusing company e-mail. One guy had to put together a report against someone who was sending out child pornography using their company e-mail. Part of his job was to monitor all attachments for such things.
Should private emails from company rigs be fair game? Discuss.
Private e-mails using a 3rd party system like hotmail? No.
The best you can really do is block your users from accessing such a site. That is why a lot of places block things like Facebook.
Private e-mails like using the business Outlook/Exchange? Yes.
I have worked at places where the Exchange administrator has had to provide evidence against employees misusing company e-mail. One guy had to put together a report against someone who was sending out child pornography using their company e-mail. Part of his job was to monitor all attachments for such things.
if you use company property or software for private use your private use is subject to company review. People learn this every day with company cellphones.
Oh i have no doubt what so ever Chris has been maliciously spending backers money on many things NOT of the game.
Example and i pointed it out awhile ago was him most likely paying off Angry Joe and The critical Brit for their early positive hype reviews whilst starting the kickstarter campaign.At one time i would have never guessed Joe to be a lame sell out but recent times have shown he most certainly is and will do anything for money.
When i listened to some of his chairman videos,i likely heard things other people BLINDLY overlooked.He often answers questions in a way that sounds like he has no idea what direction the game is moving in nor does he have any set plans for certain ideas.It really says he has not come to far organizing the game at all,but is simply all in on cash shop ship sales.Of recent,the last two i have watched he does seem to have a more definitive answer to the questions but for the first several he seemed completely unorganized and lost.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
One day I have faith people will wake up and be able to see cons like this coming a mile away. Still believe this has already hurt KS/Crowdfunding and that industry may recover but first they need to clean up projects like RSI.
One thing that would shock me is if no one goes to jail once this all crashes.
Well if you know me i am more a realist and i believe this game will not crash but as i mentioned,it will be way over budget from the way Chris pitched it. That ios why people need reminding of the value of the dollar ,the way Chris has done it without investors and publishers.Chris "not me" was making claims that the dollar would be worth 2-4x by going the crowd funding method,that would make his current 100 million worth 200-400 million,you will NEVER see a game that resembles that budget.
There is one more point that even the article missed out on ,but yeah i do more homework than even those article writers lol.In the early going when Chris was pitching a 6 million dollar game,there was also mention of investors,something that strikes me odd because he was claiming there was no such thing and why he needed crowd funding.
Now the BIG PICTURE. Why did Chris not just build that 6 million dollar game,FINISH IT and then and only then move on with new crowd funding ideas?To me it looks obvious and not even outside the box.That would force him to RELEASE a finished project and likely stalls in a big way any future crowd funding money.This way he can prolong indefinitely the game and continue to whore out the cash shop.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Well if you know me i am more a realist and i believe this game will not crash but as i mentioned,it will be way over budget from the way Chris pitched it. That ios why people need reminding of the value of the dollar ,the way Chris has done it without investors and publishers.Chris "not me" was making claims that the dollar would be worth 2-4x by going the crowd funding method,that would make his current 100 million worth 200-400 million,you will NEVER see a game that resembles that budget.
There is one more point that even the article missed out on ,but yeah i do more homework than even those article writers lol.In the early going when Chris was pitching a 6 million dollar game,there was also mention of investors,something that strikes me odd because he was claiming there was no such thing and why he needed crowd funding.
Now the BIG PICTURE. Why did Chris not just build that 6 million dollar game,FINISH IT and then and only then move on with new crowd funding ideas?To me it looks obvious and not even outside the box.That would force him to RELEASE a finished project and likely stalls in a big way any future crowd funding money.This way he can prolong indefinitely the game and continue to whore out the cash shop.
Which is what we call a Ponzi scheme, yet people just do not see it as such. After all the research I did on Chris I just do not see him that smart to pull it off. So I keep wondering who is behind this whole thing. I do not believe Sandi is smart enough to pull it off, also Ben just doesn't seem to have the smarts to do it. Just whoever set this up and it could be Chris's lawyer/partner has put everything at Chris and Sandi's, and Ben's feet. So if it does crash then I see either Chris or both him and Sandi along with Ben possibly doing some time for it.
Comments
The promise and ability to get pledges is based off of their reputation. Thus they could try to prove that by effecting their reputation you have effected future pledges/income. Whether the juice is worth the squeeze in another matter.
Either way we are far from my original point that just because they did not sue for defamation does not mean the original article did not lie. People do not always sue to correct news articles cause the benefit from that lawsuit does not often equal the cost of trying to fight it and it brings more eyes to the original article. It is often easier to try and fight it in the court of public opinion.
In our case CIG would need to show that the article cost them their reputation. That would be what the case is judged on. The Judgement at the end if favorable to CIG would be what has that loss of reputation cost them and that is where CIG would have to show a loss of future pledges which is value to CIG.
In your statement was the 109 million before or after the article? Was there a noticeable slow down in pledges after the article? These are where value would be found.
The obvious rub is the validity of said witnesses and this is the way the article has largely been ostracized.
Before we start stringing up people, though, we need to question some really obvious preliminaries. Would Escapist want this kind of problem? Have they elicited this issue before? Has an atmosphere or environment been created by, for, or around Escapist which shows willful intent to hurt CIG simply for the purpose of hurting CIG? If questions along these lines don't lead to some justification of intentional injury for, as people here like to say "reasons", then legislation as "Shield Law" actually work in favor of the media outlet, because it encourages people, who were otherwise intimidated, to tell the truth in a protected format, under the umbrella of the reputation of said media.
If you cannot say "Escapist wants to hurt CIG because it benefits Escapist to hurt CIG", then attacking Escapist, an any manner, is an attack on all press. You should understand, that is a very bad mistake for anyone to make.
Over many years of life myself and others for certain have learned that defensive postures usually mean you are hiding something.Instead of just disagreeing or simply giving THEIR side of the story they had to add law suits and threats into it.They became VERY defensive over the article and accusations.
I am not positive of course but i feel if CIG had responded in a more mature manner than just threats of lawsuit they would have come across a lot better.
None the less ,much of the information brought out,i am sure was already in the minds of many observers.MOST fanbois would fail to admit that this guy Chris Roberts has lies in the past and NOT lived up to his promises but seems they want to look the other way and well just be fanbois.I keep reminding people that he pitched this great game on a budget of 6 million,yes of course he has found way to nickle and dime added costs but he has still to this day not finished even the 6 million dollar game he promised he could deliver.Also at this point i would say he is long long past that 6 million and did NOT deliver.
Prolonging game development indefinitely,well yeah of course your eventually going to pull it off,at what cost ,3x the expected budget,when another PROMISE was this platform would save him cost of development when compared to working with investors and publishers like about 3x the savings,so in essence he is going over budget about 6x+.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
1. The media entity is sued to try and get the article retracted.
2. The VP's career is over cause any company will do their due-diligence before hiring an exec and an article like that means you ain't getting hired. The world of execs isn't all that big.
The fact that number 1 hasn't happened means CIG is afraid to actually go to court and go through that process. Which means there were some truth to that article.
And I haven't even touched whatever the actual response was by Chris Roberts. Let me just say, a couple of my friends who practice law read some of it, just smiled and shook their heads. Then they said 'Oh! They have a Lawyer! Puhahahaha!'
It shows what PvP games are really all about, and no, it's not about more realism and immersion. It's about cowards hiding behind a screen to they can bully other defenseless players without any risk of direct retaliation like there would be if they acted like asshats in "real life". -Jean-Luc_Picard
Life itself is a game. So why shouldn't your game be ruined? - justmemyselfandi
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ortwin_Freyermuth
Co-founder and Vice Chairman.
Lawyers (good ones) tend to make sure their client don't write letters like that as that was essentially self-incriminating.
It shows what PvP games are really all about, and no, it's not about more realism and immersion. It's about cowards hiding behind a screen to they can bully other defenseless players without any risk of direct retaliation like there would be if they acted like asshats in "real life". -Jean-Luc_Picard
Life itself is a game. So why shouldn't your game be ruined? - justmemyselfandi
Certain parties had even supposedly retained a legal team and served notice on CIG that they were going to start litigation if their demands ween't met. CIG ignored the bluster and nothing came of it.
So much hot air from a small group that have apparently dedicated their lives to bringing down SC and "exposing the truth" about CIG. So far not a single allegation has been proven. It's a bit like asking "Have you stopped abusing your spouse ?" Just answer yes or no.
Any "allegation" I've made is perfectly open to peer review and citation. If there's something I say with which people disagree, I really wish we could talk about it, instead of the mass fracas to stuff me in a barrel and float me down river. Not very fond of that.
You believe things are a certain way, and I believe they are not. In my comments, you get lumped with the general "anti" crowd, because your allegations are indistinguishable from the rest. They are not unique or insightful.
SC's development is progressing pretty much as I'd expected it would. So far I've not seen anything that would cause me to start signing petitions for federal investigations.
So mean.
"That's just, like... your opinion, man !"
So, has there been much talk in your people's circles about the private investigator hired in October by Chris and Ortwin, to investigate employees and the supposed sources (the ones who were still employees) for the Escapist article leaks? Do you suppose that was paid by backer funds? What do you think about it? If an employee of yours went to press, pseudo-anonymously, to speak ill of your business practices, would you pay to have "everyone" investigated to root out the leak source? Should private emails from company rigs be fair game? Discuss.
The best you can really do is block your users from accessing such a site. That is why a lot of places block things like Facebook.
Private e-mails like using the business Outlook/Exchange? Yes.
I have worked at places where the Exchange administrator has had to provide evidence against employees misusing company e-mail. One guy had to put together a report against someone who was sending out child pornography using their company e-mail. Part of his job was to monitor all attachments for such things.
if you use company property or software for private use your private use is subject to company review. People learn this every day with company cellphones.
Example and i pointed it out awhile ago was him most likely paying off Angry Joe and The critical Brit for their early positive hype reviews whilst starting the kickstarter campaign.At one time i would have never guessed Joe to be a lame sell out but recent times have shown he most certainly is and will do anything for money.
When i listened to some of his chairman videos,i likely heard things other people BLINDLY overlooked.He often answers questions in a way that sounds like he has no idea what direction the game is moving in nor does he have any set plans for certain ideas.It really says he has not come to far organizing the game at all,but is simply all in on cash shop ship sales.Of recent,the last two i have watched he does seem to have a more definitive answer to the questions but for the first several he seemed completely unorganized and lost.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
One thing that would shock me is if no one goes to jail once this all crashes.
Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event
4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.
http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/
Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!
That ios why people need reminding of the value of the dollar ,the way Chris has done it without investors and publishers.Chris "not me" was making claims that the dollar would be worth 2-4x by going the crowd funding method,that would make his current 100 million worth 200-400 million,you will NEVER see a game that resembles that budget.
There is one more point that even the article missed out on ,but yeah i do more homework than even those article writers lol.In the early going when Chris was pitching a 6 million dollar game,there was also mention of investors,something that strikes me odd because he was claiming there was no such thing and why he needed crowd funding.
Now the BIG PICTURE.
Why did Chris not just build that 6 million dollar game,FINISH IT and then and only then move on with new crowd funding ideas?To me it looks obvious and not even outside the box.That would force him to RELEASE a finished project and likely stalls in a big way any future crowd funding money.This way he can prolong indefinitely the game and continue to whore out the cash shop.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event
4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.
http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/
Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!