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[Updated] Escapist nominated for Kunkel award for reporting on project woes

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Comments

  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 8,178
    Where business is concerned isn't reputation king ? Why would they not sue if they had a case ? 

  • BrenicsBrenics Member RarePosts: 1,939
    kitarad said:
    Where business is concerned isn't reputation king ? Why would they not sue if they had a case ? 
    They can't sue because the Escapist never lied. Chris has been attempting to find the people still working at CIG that was part of that article. That is what Chris does, try and shut up all decent!  
    I'm not perfect but I'm always myself!

    Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event


    4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.

    http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/

    Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!

  • AngryElfAngryElf Member UncommonPosts: 194
    People are still talking about this? 
  • SmartySmartSmartySmart Member UncommonPosts: 312
    Brenics said:
    kitarad said:
    Where business is concerned isn't reputation king ? Why would they not sue if they had a case ? 
    They can't sue because the Escapist never lied. Chris has been attempting to find the people still working at CIG that was part of that article. That is what Chris does, try and shut up all decent!  
    How do you know? What are your sources for these claims? 
  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    Here's my take. For the inaugural Kunkel awards, which are supposed to celebrate excellence in video game journalism, I found it somewhat sad that an article which had zero name sources, was found recycling anonymous employee comments from a third party site verbatim, and generally regurgitating information about an ongoing debate that was already common knowledge was chosen from over a hundred nominees. 

    Unfortunately, I feel like, maybe, the judges were more impressed by the controversy surrounding the article itself. However, are they REALLY going to award someone for EXCELLENCE in journalism when they provided nothing of value? They didn't break the story, they didn't give irrefutable evidence (in fact, it resulted in a threat of legal action), and they were caught red-handed copying information without reference. F$*K ME! If that's all it takes, give me a pen and paper! 

    Again, if they broke the story, A story, ANY story, I would be in full support. If they blew this open with names, dates, videos, etc. I would have probably died a little inside, but I would have said they should get the award. However, CIG even indicated that the pay stub and ID cards or whatever they claimed was used to verify, were forgeries. So their story was, essentially, baseless. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • BrenicsBrenics Member RarePosts: 1,939
    CrazKanuk said:

    Again, if they broke the story, A story, ANY story, I would be in full support. If they blew this open with names, dates, videos, etc. I would have probably died a little inside, but I would have said they should get the award. However, CIG even indicated that the pay stub and ID cards or whatever they claimed was used to verify, were forgeries. So their story was, essentially, baseless. 
    LOL yet we caught Chris in how many lies thru the years? LOL yeah he has a lot of trust built up doesn't he? LOL
    I'm not perfect but I'm always myself!

    Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event


    4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.

    http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/

    Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!

  • GrumpyHobbitGrumpyHobbit Member RarePosts: 1,220
    Brenics said:
    CrazKanuk said:

    Again, if they broke the story, A story, ANY story, I would be in full support. If they blew this open with names, dates, videos, etc. I would have probably died a little inside, but I would have said they should get the award. However, CIG even indicated that the pay stub and ID cards or whatever they claimed was used to verify, were forgeries. So their story was, essentially, baseless. 
    LOL yet we caught Chris in how many lies thru the years? LOL yeah he has a lot of trust built up doesn't he? LOL
    What lies?

    Missed target dates on a 110, 000, 000 project are not the same as lying remember.

    So please what lies?

    Promises that have not been met are not the same as lies either.

    So please, specifically what lies are you accusing him of?


  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    Brenics said:
    CrazKanuk said:

    Again, if they broke the story, A story, ANY story, I would be in full support. If they blew this open with names, dates, videos, etc. I would have probably died a little inside, but I would have said they should get the award. However, CIG even indicated that the pay stub and ID cards or whatever they claimed was used to verify, were forgeries. So their story was, essentially, baseless. 
    LOL yet we caught Chris in how many lies thru the years? LOL yeah he has a lot of trust built up doesn't he? LOL
    How is this about Chris? It has nothing to do with Chris. As a matter of fact, I actually said that they would deserve to run away with the story if they DID JOURNALISM!!!! 

    You say you're old, so I figured you'd appreciate the minuscule amount of actual journalism that went on for this article. Again, if my son was caught using false information on a school project, he'd probably fail. However, in this case, we take a quote from a third party site and pass it off as someone that we talked to ourselves, and someone is going to give them an award! 

    To put this in terms you might identify with better, giving The Escapist an award for THIS particular article, would be like someone awarding Chris Roberts and CIG as Developer of the Year. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • BrenicsBrenics Member RarePosts: 1,939
    Nothing in Escapist article is false. If it was believe me CR and his lawyer would have filed a case. You can say you believe the ex and current employee's lied for your opinion but really that is all you can say. It wouldn't be accurate but you can say it if it makes you feel better. But clearly it has to be fact just by watching how CR and his lawyer acted after the letter.
    I'm not perfect but I'm always myself!

    Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event


    4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.

    http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/

    Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!

  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    Brenics said:
    Nothing in Escapist article is false. If it was believe me CR and his lawyer would have filed a case. You can say you believe the ex and current employee's lied for your opinion but really that is all you can say. It wouldn't be accurate but you can say it if it makes you feel better. But clearly it has to be fact just by watching how CR and his lawyer acted after the letter.

    Lol, this is just high-larious, meaning funny only if you're high. It's ironic how the subject of lawsuits has been covered ad nauseam, and the failure to file a lawsuit by CIG, The Escapist, OR DS (who said he was launching one) were determined to be non-beneficial to any party involved. Lawyers just eat money. Yet, you bring this up as being proof, somehow, of something factual. I'm really sorry, that's not fact. What is fact is that The Escapist took anonymous reviews from a third party website and quoted them in their article. Google, find the definition of fact, and then try to use it in a sentence correctly. 


    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    CrazKanuk said:
    Here's my take. For the inaugural Kunkel awards, which are supposed to celebrate excellence in video game journalism, I found it somewhat sad that an article which had zero name sources, was found recycling anonymous employee comments from a third party site verbatim, and generally regurgitating information about an ongoing debate that was already common knowledge was chosen from over a hundred nominees. 

    Unfortunately, I feel like, maybe, the judges were more impressed by the controversy surrounding the article itself. However, are they REALLY going to award someone for EXCELLENCE in journalism when they provided nothing of value? They didn't break the story, they didn't give irrefutable evidence (in fact, it resulted in a threat of legal action), and they were caught red-handed copying information without reference. F$*K ME! If that's all it takes, give me a pen and paper! 

    Again, if they broke the story, A story, ANY story, I would be in full support. If they blew this open with names, dates, videos, etc. I would have probably died a little inside, but I would have said they should get the award. However, CIG even indicated that the pay stub and ID cards or whatever they claimed was used to verify, were forgeries. So their story was, essentially, baseless. 

    Wasn't the ID card thing for one employee and they used other ways to verify the identity? I could be wrong as I don't have time to look it up before going to work but pretty sure if they couldn't verify they only used that person to corroborate everyone else's story.

    Of course everyone else if this was a sham could have gotten together before hand to get their stories straight but maybe they didn't and they did properly vet their sources.

    I have seen people make the argument that because the sources wished to remain anonymous then they must be fake. Generally being a whistleblower in an industry is a very fast way to commit career suicide. Legally companies can't withhold employment on the basis of being a whistleblower but really its not hard to say "they aren't who we are looking for right now" to get around it.
  • PhaserlightPhaserlight Member EpicPosts: 3,078
    CrazKanuk said:
    Here's my take. For the inaugural Kunkel awards, which are supposed to celebrate excellence in video game journalism, I found it somewhat sad that an article which had zero name sources, was found recycling anonymous employee comments from a third party site verbatim, and generally regurgitating information about an ongoing debate that was already common knowledge was chosen from over a hundred nominees. 

    Unfortunately, I feel like, maybe, the judges were more impressed by the controversy surrounding the article itself. However, are they REALLY going to award someone for EXCELLENCE in journalism when they provided nothing of value? They didn't break the story, they didn't give irrefutable evidence (in fact, it resulted in a threat of legal action), and they were caught red-handed copying information without reference. F$*K ME! If that's all it takes, give me a pen and paper! 

    Again, if they broke the story, A story, ANY story, I would be in full support. If they blew this open with names, dates, videos, etc. I would have probably died a little inside, but I would have said they should get the award. However, CIG even indicated that the pay stub and ID cards or whatever they claimed was used to verify, were forgeries. So their story was, essentially, baseless. 
    That is the revisionist version of what happened.  At the top of the article, the managing editor of The Escapist links to a detailed explanation of how the article was sourced.  TL;DR: they were all primary sources.

    Now, it's up to you whether or not to believe the managing editor of the Escapist is flat out lying, but I tend to believe this would be bordering on delusional paranoia.

    It's conceivable that the sources that were interviewed by Lizzy went on to post similar (or even identical -we live in an age of ctrl-v) statements on Glassdoor, but by no means should this be taken as an indication that this was where the article was sourced from.  Occam's razor applies, here.

    The idle legal threats gave credence to the article, if anything.  Fortunately, we don't live in a society where threatening to sue someone implies that the accused is guilty.  It was nothing more than a poorly disguised attempt at smothering negative press, which I find distasteful to say the least.

    I normally don't get involved with Star Citizen drama, but too many white knights seem to want everyone to buy the above version of events.  I would caution anyone being sold this narrative to consider what his/her biases may be.

    "The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
    Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance

  • SmartySmartSmartySmart Member UncommonPosts: 312
    One thing is for sure... if SC is a scam or if they use a Ponzi scheme we would not have this discussion as CIG would be more than only under fire. If there really would be something criminal going on we for sure would see CIG in trial by now.

    But all threatened law suits against CIG have not happened and they were all smoke and mirrors (a common used phrase used by anti-SC people). The FTC has no investigation going on as was stated by hardcore critics and there is no FBI or what else institution would be in charge for something like that involved. 

    The Escapist or better said Ms. Finnigan did not vet the sources properly, was baited and sadly jumped on the train and hoped for the big story that would put her in the spotlight... just like she tried it with her "semen cup". She wanted attention but it backfired. If I am informed correctly she does not write articles for the escapist anymore... at least no major stories.
  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    edited March 2016
    Kefo said:
    CrazKanuk said:
    Here's my take. For the inaugural Kunkel awards, which are supposed to celebrate excellence in video game journalism, I found it somewhat sad that an article which had zero name sources, was found recycling anonymous employee comments from a third party site verbatim, and generally regurgitating information about an ongoing debate that was already common knowledge was chosen from over a hundred nominees. 

    Unfortunately, I feel like, maybe, the judges were more impressed by the controversy surrounding the article itself. However, are they REALLY going to award someone for EXCELLENCE in journalism when they provided nothing of value? They didn't break the story, they didn't give irrefutable evidence (in fact, it resulted in a threat of legal action), and they were caught red-handed copying information without reference. F$*K ME! If that's all it takes, give me a pen and paper! 

    Again, if they broke the story, A story, ANY story, I would be in full support. If they blew this open with names, dates, videos, etc. I would have probably died a little inside, but I would have said they should get the award. However, CIG even indicated that the pay stub and ID cards or whatever they claimed was used to verify, were forgeries. So their story was, essentially, baseless. 

    Wasn't the ID card thing for one employee and they used other ways to verify the identity? I could be wrong as I don't have time to look it up before going to work but pretty sure if they couldn't verify they only used that person to corroborate everyone else's story.

    Of course everyone else if this was a sham could have gotten together before hand to get their stories straight but maybe they didn't and they did properly vet their sources.

    I have seen people make the argument that because the sources wished to remain anonymous then they must be fake. Generally being a whistleblower in an industry is a very fast way to commit career suicide. Legally companies can't withhold employment on the basis of being a whistleblower but really its not hard to say "they aren't who we are looking for right now" to get around it.

    Totally agree, but we are talking about a company of 200+ people. Corroborating your story based off of what? Disgruntled former employees? Or people who are entirely anonymous. Oh! And they were apparently continuing their coverage of it? But never came up with any other sources? I agree that whistle blowers rarely want to be singled out, but once a story is out there it usually opens the door for others to pile on (sorry Mr. Cosby). So, in this case, we had 7 people "come forward" in the matter of a month, during a time when the topic was at it's hottest. Since then? Crickets! Let's be honest, as the journalist involved, whom I forget now, this isn't "just another story" is it? This could be like a freakin' atom bomb! This could be massive! In a time when gaming websites are shutting down left, right and center, I WANT that story. Yet, crickets...... 

    200+ people. Some of whom have left since then. Moved onto other projects, but not a word. Nothing else. Not even anonymous. I mean, being objective, we look at something like Glass Door and we've got nothing besides one review of CIG before August (which was a 3*). Then from August Through September, we have 10 reviews (half) of which 80% were 1* (mostly from Anonymous people). Then, From October on, we get another 10 and 90% of which were 5*. I mean, unfortunately, it's the metacritic paradox.

    The point is that the article quoted these glass door reviews which were made anonymously and actual employment wasn't verified. It's horrible journalism and outright lazy. 

    Fact is that they said they were following up on some additional leads and were going to publish a follow-up..... crickets. No, not award-winning journalism. Can you honestly say it was award-winning journalism. Like you'd give it a Pulitzer? 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • Adjuvant1Adjuvant1 Member RarePosts: 2,100
    CrazKanuk said:
     However, CIG even indicated that the pay stub and ID cards or whatever they claimed was used to verify, were forgeries.
    This isn't true. The actual statement was, something to the effect of, those items, as a paystub and door pass key, could be forged. The most funny statement on reddit at the time, which seemed to shut down some amount of conversation, was to the effect of, "proof is the easiest thing to invent". I have no idea how people think anything gets done on this planet, at all, with this style of rationale.
  • rpmcmurphyrpmcmurphy Member EpicPosts: 3,502
    edited March 2016
    CrazKanuk said:
    Here's my take. For the inaugural Kunkel awards, which are supposed to celebrate excellence in video game journalism, I found it somewhat sad that an article which had zero name sources, was found recycling anonymous employee comments from a third party site verbatim, and generally regurgitating information about an ongoing debate that was already common knowledge was chosen from over a hundred nominees. 

    Unfortunately, I feel like, maybe, the judges were more impressed by the controversy surrounding the article itself. However, are they REALLY going to award someone for EXCELLENCE in journalism when they provided nothing of value? They didn't break the story, they didn't give irrefutable evidence (in fact, it resulted in a threat of legal action), and they were caught red-handed copying information without reference. F$*K ME! If that's all it takes, give me a pen and paper! 

    Again, if they broke the story, A story, ANY story, I would be in full support. If they blew this open with names, dates, videos, etc. I would have probably died a little inside, but I would have said they should get the award. However, CIG even indicated that the pay stub and ID cards or whatever they claimed was used to verify, were forgeries. So their story was, essentially, baseless. 
    That is the revisionist version of what happened.  At the top of the article, the managing editor of The Escapist links to a detailed explanation of how the article was sourced.  TL;DR: they were all primary sources.

    Now, it's up to you whether or not to believe the managing editor of the Escapist is flat out lying, but I tend to believe this would be bordering on delusional paranoia.

    It's conceivable that the sources that were interviewed by Lizzy went on to post similar (or even identical -we live in an age of ctrl-v) statements on Glassdoor, but by no means should this be taken as an indication that this was where the article was sourced from.  Occam's razor applies, here.

    The idle legal threats gave credence to the article, if anything.  Fortunately, we don't live in a society where threatening to sue someone implies that the accused is guilty.  It was nothing more than a poorly disguised attempt at smothering negative press, which I find distasteful to say the least.

    I normally don't get involved with Star Citizen drama, but too many white knights seem to want everyone to buy the above version of events.  I would caution anyone being sold this narrative to consider what his/her biases may be.

    Well said.

    I think what's irritating is that we've had this conversation about The Escapist's sources many, many times before, and despite people being shown the inaccuracies of their argument they maintain that their version (and a biased subreddit's version) of events is true.

    Time and time again they come back with their revisionistic version.
    It really is like arguing with a brick wall.
  • ShodanasShodanas Member RarePosts: 1,933
    CrazKanuk said:
    Here's my take. For the inaugural Kunkel awards, which are supposed to celebrate excellence in video game journalism, I found it somewhat sad that an article which had zero name sources, was found recycling anonymous employee comments from a third party site verbatim, and generally regurgitating information about an ongoing debate that was already common knowledge was chosen from over a hundred nominees. 

    Unfortunately, I feel like, maybe, the judges were more impressed by the controversy surrounding the article itself. However, are they REALLY going to award someone for EXCELLENCE in journalism when they provided nothing of value? They didn't break the story, they didn't give irrefutable evidence (in fact, it resulted in a threat of legal action), and they were caught red-handed copying information without reference. F$*K ME! If that's all it takes, give me a pen and paper! 

    Again, if they broke the story, A story, ANY story, I would be in full support. If they blew this open with names, dates, videos, etc. I would have probably died a little inside, but I would have said they should get the award. However, CIG even indicated that the pay stub and ID cards or whatever they claimed was used to verify, were forgeries. So their story was, essentially, baseless. 
    You shouldn't be surprised. Today's investigative journalism is mostly about throwing shit at the fan without bothering to provide any solid proof. Without bothering to hear what the other side in question has to say. It's all hush hush, just accept what the reporter claims about his sources without questions.

    Escapist excelled at this.


  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 9,004
    Remember the debate club?  In the finals two people were given opposite sides of the same topic to debate.  The topic didn't matter.  It was the skill of the people involved in the debate that counted.  This is what is going on here.  No matter what someone says or comes up with there's someone who can offer a counter, some good, some not so good, but a calculated response just the same.  So, welcome to the endless loop.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • SmartySmartSmartySmart Member UncommonPosts: 312
    Remember the debate club?  In the finals two people were given opposite sides of the same topic to debate.  The topic didn't matter.  It was the skill of the people involved in the debate that counted.  This is what is going on here.  No matter what someone says or comes up with there's someone who can offer a counter, some good, some not so good, but a calculated response just the same.  So, welcome to the endless loop.
    Very correct... sadly I get myself caught in that loop sometimes. Thanks for reminding me again of:


    Therefor I am out... until next time ;)
  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    edited March 2016
    CrazKanuk said:
    Here's my take. For the inaugural Kunkel awards, which are supposed to celebrate excellence in video game journalism, I found it somewhat sad that an article which had zero name sources, was found recycling anonymous employee comments from a third party site verbatim, and generally regurgitating information about an ongoing debate that was already common knowledge was chosen from over a hundred nominees. 

    Unfortunately, I feel like, maybe, the judges were more impressed by the controversy surrounding the article itself. However, are they REALLY going to award someone for EXCELLENCE in journalism when they provided nothing of value? They didn't break the story, they didn't give irrefutable evidence (in fact, it resulted in a threat of legal action), and they were caught red-handed copying information without reference. F$*K ME! If that's all it takes, give me a pen and paper! 

    Again, if they broke the story, A story, ANY story, I would be in full support. If they blew this open with names, dates, videos, etc. I would have probably died a little inside, but I would have said they should get the award. However, CIG even indicated that the pay stub and ID cards or whatever they claimed was used to verify, were forgeries. So their story was, essentially, baseless. 
    That is the revisionist version of what happened.  At the top of the article, the managing editor of The Escapist links to a detailed explanation of how the article was sourced.  TL;DR: they were all primary sources.

    Now, it's up to you whether or not to believe the managing editor of the Escapist is flat out lying, but I tend to believe this would be bordering on delusional paranoia.

    It's conceivable that the sources that were interviewed by Lizzy went on to post similar (or even identical -we live in an age of ctrl-v) statements on Glassdoor, but by no means should this be taken as an indication that this was where the article was sourced from.  Occam's razor applies, here.

    The idle legal threats gave credence to the article, if anything.  Fortunately, we don't live in a society where threatening to sue someone implies that the accused is guilty.  It was nothing more than a poorly disguised attempt at smothering negative press, which I find distasteful to say the least.

    I normally don't get involved with Star Citizen drama, but too many white knights seem to want everyone to buy the above version of events.  I would caution anyone being sold this narrative to consider what his/her biases may be.

    Lol, your statements re: Occam's razor are funny because it plays either way, yet you label people as white knights. Being truly objective, you feel this was a piece of writing deserving of an award of excellence? An inflammatory piece which went as far as to blow the doors off something that could have been great, and then resolved nothing? Even a journalist commented in the comments that the article was horrible. God! At least tie up your loose ends and sink the ship! I would be willing to bet that you could get former employees on record with negative comments if you really wanted to, and they existed. There are enough former employees by now.

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • TalonsinTalonsin Member EpicPosts: 3,619
    What lies?

    Missed target dates on a 110, 000, 000 project are not the same as lying remember.

    So please what lies?

    Promises that have not been met are not the same as lies either.

    So please, specifically what lies are you accusing him of?


    I am accusing him of lying when he was asked about feature creep back in 2013.  When asked if adding all these stretch goals to the project and expanding its scope would push back the release he said:

    "... we don’t commit to adding features that would hold up the game’s ability to go “live” in a fully functional state,"

    Source: http://www.pcauthority.com.au/News/358547,chris-roberts-addresses-feature-creep-as-star-citizen-makes-20-million.aspx

    At that time, he KNEW he was not going to release a product at the 2014 target that he continued to publicly say he was.  It was not possible with what he had.  It took him an entire year after that just to get out the 16 player demo they released at the end of 2015. 

    He lied and that is not the only time. 

    "Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game."  - SEANMCAD

  • PhaserlightPhaserlight Member EpicPosts: 3,078
    edited March 2016
    CrazKanuk said:
    CrazKanuk said:

    edit: nevermind, I see you were talking about the article when you wrote "something that could have been great".  I was actually going to defend the Star Citizen project, a little.

    The Escapist is doing what they've always done; their tone is to be inflammatory, so I would take the article with a grain of salt.  The hyperbolic moral outrage and organized blackwashing by the SC 'superfans' is more troubling to me than anything in the article.  It may have been a hit piece, but so what?  The reaction by a) Ortwin Freyermuth and b) the SC 'superfans' is telling.  Best thing CIG/RSI and the community could have done is to ignore it, and let the truth win out.  Calling in to question "journalistic ethics" or threatening a lawsuit over an article which, to all outward appearances, was sourced correctly, is just petty.  The project and its fans would appear under a much different light to me today had the reaction been a different one, or nothing at all.

    On the other hand, there were some pretty disturbing things said in the article.  CIG/RSI would have done well to gauge a 'measured response'.  Instead, we got a flame war.

    ...I'll reserve judgement until I see the final product?
    Post edited by Phaserlight on

    "The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
    Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance

  • GrumpyHobbitGrumpyHobbit Member RarePosts: 1,220
    edited March 2016
    Talonsin said:

    I am accusing him of lying when he was asked about feature creep back in 2013.  When asked if adding all these stretch goals to the project and expanding its scope would push back the release he said:

    "... we don’t commit to adding features that would hold up the game’s ability to go “live” in a fully functional state,"

    Source: http://www.pcauthority.com.au/News/358547,chris-roberts-addresses-feature-creep-as-star-citizen-makes-20-million.aspx

    At that time, he KNEW he was not going to release a product at the 2014 target that he continued to publicly say he was.  It was not possible with what he had.  It took him an entire year after that just to get out the 16 player demo they released at the end of 2015. 

    He lied and that is not the only time. 

    So you read minds?

    His statement was hardly anything but what everyone does in normal conversation in everyday life. Say what is true at the time which often does not stay true when the situation changes. 

    There is a big difference between lying and making a statement that later on is no longer true. If we didn't allow for it I would still be held to my promise as a 6 year old of thinking girls were disgusting. Would you call me a liar now if I chose to date a girl because of something I said at an earlier point of my life that, at the time, was true?

    The project changed from having a couple of million investment to 110 million. That is one hell of a change of scope and does not come without additional costs like extended development time. 

    I would hope to fuck his statements from way back yonder changed and if they didn't would be asking "where is the rest of the money going". 

    Honestly you guys complain that they changed the plan when that was the only reasonable thing to do given the changes is circumstances. 


  • Adjuvant1Adjuvant1 Member RarePosts: 2,100
    From what I can tell, they are actually making a pretty great game; I disagree entirely with the 'it hasn't been done because it can't be done' sentiment... it most certainly can be done and it is being done...

    "Can be done" now, or "can be done" with technology 6 years from now? "Can be done" on earth or inventing a parallel dimension of network realities?

    I'm not picking on you specifically.

     I simply don't believe all these things projected are realistic. I believe, right now, CIG is pushing boundaries of realistic netcode. This is why experiences are so varied in 2.2.1, and why every build is 10-30g, as they're actually cannibalizing aspects from one sector or another (reconfiguring human models, re-sizing the crusader "box", swapping audio, simplifying... other things) to add any new feature. This is going to become more and more apparent in 2.4 and 2.5. They've already reached limits of realistic complexity, now slowly backtracking on what is acceptable to curtail.

    What CIG is asking of employees is alot like this video.



    I think it causes a huge amount of undue stress and engineers have basically thrown their hands up in the air, "fine, I told you we can't do it, but you want to pay me another year to prove it can't be done, I get paid by the hour". Everyone above a certain level of expertise and ethic have bailed, and we're left with a measurable amount of expertise with little hope. No one discusses this currently because they all "know", and it's just a paycheck.

    And this is the "read between the lines" of the entire Escapist article. If everything I just depicted pans out true, or even very close to true, then everything in the spirit of the article is true. I believe it's true. I don't believe it to be mean, I believe it because it's sense.

  • GrumpyHobbitGrumpyHobbit Member RarePosts: 1,220
    Adjuvant1 said:

    I think it causes a huge amount of undue stress and engineers have basically thrown their hands up in the air, "fine, I told you we can't do it, but you want to pay me another year to prove it can't be done, I get paid by the hour". Everyone above a certain level of expertise and ethic have bailed, and we're left with a measurable amount of expertise with little hope. No one discusses this currently because they all "know", and it's just a paycheck.

    And this is the "read between the lines" of the entire Escapist article. If everything I just depicted pans out true, or even very close to true, then everything in the spirit of the article is true. I believe it's true. I don't believe it to be mean, I believe it because it's sense.

    So you are calling all the employees working on SC unethical and lacking experience?

    Tell me, what qualifies you to make such a statement other then just making shit up and getting away with it just because the Internet breeds experts and tough guys?

    Do you work with these guys and does that enable you to talk about what they 'know' and the morals behind getting a paycheck.

    Seriously, you are one sick person. 



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