Rob Irving (Former Lead Designer of Star Citizen) interview - admits Escapists article is true

Erillion

rodarin said:

Its always funny watching people try and spin a video or taped conversation, especially when there is not a lot of 'commitment' in the statement.

But anyone with any sort of social acumen and ability to recognize HOW something is said over WHAT was said understands what the guy is saying.

The WAY he said it one can infer that he was insinuating the more seedy accusations were truthful. The ones that people might be sort of uncomfortable talking about. Not to mention the guy cant really be a whistle blower because he wants to keep working, and he cant 'rat out' people he worked with no matter how bad it was because I suspect everyone in the 'industry' has less than ethical practices in some form or another.

As for him wanting to slack off...he worked on the game when there were 20 people then left when it got to 300. His pay also more than likely went up as well. So for all the slackers out there how much easier is it to slack off and hide or deflect with 15 times as many people as it is without them? If he REALLY wanted to slack off it was much easier when he left than when he started. 

Going by what he said and where he kept going with comments I think he simply wanted to MAKE a game and DELIVER it  for people to play. Not sitting there in perpetual development and creeping. One can also take from HOW he said things that he thinks the actual possibility og the game getting delivered (in the scope it has reached now) is more than likely impossible,and he also think by HOW and even WHAT he said the probability of Chris Roberts (on his own) being able to recognize it and stay 'stop' are also very low.

He isnt saying anything that anyone thinks is outrageous he is just reaffirming that this game isnt going to be made in the way people think it will be made and everyone knows that, but coming from a guy like him it shoud carry a lot more weight.

The part where he wasnt cagey at all as the money questions. He basically said straight up that f they hadnt gotten as much money as they did the game would be much further along and more than likely at least part of the original vision could have been realized.

He knows CR is his own worst enemy and he stated as much and the insinuation was that CRs hubris and lack of self control are going to be the main reasons why this game wont be made. Surely not for a lack of money or ability of the people actually doing the work.  

The one off hand comment about the money was how they moved studios to Ca and not to Texas (which would have obviously been a lot cheaper). So one could take that one off as a dig as well.

What are people expecting from this guy? Unless he wants to run his own studio and not worrying about getting a job someday he cant say much. Now after ti all burns to the ground he might come out with stuff. I think he was very clear and went as far as he could in 'warning' people this game is a pipe dream at this point.

Fascinating.

The things you see, like "...The WAY he said it one can infer that he was insinuating the more seedy accusations were truthful. ..."

.... and still you do not see that you all watch it through your own filtered perception that warps things into the way you want to see things.  Which happens to all of us. But not all of us state it as  THE one and only truth:

"...he was insinuating the more seedy accusations were truthful...."

"....everyone in the 'industry' has less than ethical practices in some form or another...."

"....he thinks the actual possibility og the game getting delivered (in the scope it has reached now) is more than likely impossible...."

"....He knows CR is his own worst enemy and he stated as much..."

"....CRs hubris and lack of self control are going to be the main reasons why this game wont be made..."

Congratulations on your mind reading abilities. You know what Rob Irving thinks. You know what Rob Irving knows.

HELLO ROB !  It MUST be you, because that is the only way that you know what you think and know.


Have fun

tawess

Nah just good old confirmation bias. 

happens all the time. 

DKLond

I can't be the only one working at a place with hundreds of employees, right?

I can tell you right now, that there's no way to get all the bosses at my place of work to agree on what we're doing and why we're doing it. I also can't get them to agree about the "company line" or what the CEO is like.

I could pick any employee at random and ask him or her about some boss at the top - and I'd get different answers every time.

I have absolutely no idea why people assume that because you've held a position of importance in a company with several hundred employees - your personal opinion about what the project is, is the absolute truth.

I find that assumption to be out of touch with reality.

By his own admission, he's not close with Chris Roberts - nor has he ever been. By his own admission, he didn't WANT to make the bigger version of Star Citizen.

We have no idea why he's vague - and it could be a combination of many things. If we focus on what he actually said - and why he quit - it's about the project being too big and that he prefers to be a creative guy.

So, I find it more likely that the claims of "truth" is about that = an unwieldy scope and not about racism.

To me, an unwieldy scope in one of the most ambitious creative projects I've ever heard about is not a surprise - nor something that could easily be averted.

But, again, we have no way of knowing at all.

rodarin

DKLond said:

By his own admission, he's not close with Chris Roberts - nor has he ever been. By his own admission, he didn't WANT to make the bigger version of Star Citizen.

No he didnt want that many people working on it. The scope issue he was sort of vague on. mostly because I am sure he is one of the people that thinks its impossible and you can ascertain that from what he said when he said 'wearing my producer cap and wearing my designer cap" spiel.

I think he was speaking more of the scope of the team not the scope of the game. More money more problems, more people more problems.

Another telling thing was how he used a novel concept...EXPANSION. You dont have to RELEASE something impossible but you can EVENTUALLY get something released (over time) that people would have thought was impossible to release at one time.

There are a lot of games that never got released, that could have, had they released SOMETHING and then made some money and added content as they made enough money to do so.

SC is suffering from all the issues everyone said it would 3 years ago, and most if not all of them are solely on the shoulders of Roberts and his inability to DELIVER something rather than always wanting to 'improve' it. Not even the staunchest white knight can argue that point. Because he has never ever been in charge of a project that actually RELEASED, he wasnt even part of the project most of the times when they actually hit public phase.

The only thing SC backers have left is the hope that SC can actually deliver the impossible that one time in his life. Highly unlikely but the one thing they will never ever be able to use for an excuse once it all falls down is lack of funds and lack of control by Chris Roberts.

DKLond

rodarin said:

DKLond said:

By his own admission, he's not close with Chris Roberts - nor has he ever been. By his own admission, he didn't WANT to make the bigger version of Star Citizen.

No he didnt want that many people working on it. The scope issue he was sort of vague on. mostly because I am sure he is one of the people that thinks its impossible and you can ascertain that from what he said when he said 'wearing my producer cap and wearing my designer cap" spiel.

I think he was speaking more of the scope of the team not the scope of the game. More money more problems, more people more problems.

Another telling thing was how he used a novel concept...EXPANSION. You dont have to RELEASE something impossible but you can EVENTUALLY get something released (over time) that people would have thought was impossible to release at one time.

There are a lot of games that never got released, that could have, had they released SOMETHING and then made some money and added content as they made enough money to do so.

SC is suffering from all the issues everyone said it would 3 years ago, and most if not all of them are solely on the shoulders of Roberts and his inability to DELIVER something rather than always wanting to 'improve' it. Not even the staunchest white knight can argue that point. Because he has never ever been in charge of a project that actually RELEASED, he wasnt even part of the project most of the times when they actually hit public phase.

The only thing SC backers have left is the hope that SC can actually deliver the impossible that one time in his life. Highly unlikely but the one thing they will never ever be able to use for an excuse once it all falls down is lack of funds and lack of control by Chris Roberts.

It's much harder to expand something to the kind of scope CR wants for SC if you don't start out doing all the groundwork.

That's the basic philosophy. They're laying the ENTIRE foundation from the beginning, instead of trying to "add" it later.

You can take any single MMO or "huge game" in existence - and you'll come up completely empty-handed if you're looking for a game that completely changed the core and expanded in scope in the way that would be necessary here.

Even a huge success like WoW is essentially the exact same game it always was - with some engine modifications and a lot of samey content. That's not how to approach the "dream" in my opinion.

Sure, we could look at a game like Elite Dangerous and see how the opposite approach works.

Personally, I'd much, much rather get behind doing the real work first - instead of promises that it'll come "eventually".

Probably because I don't believe for a second that ED will EVER become what so many thought it would be.

Vrika

I think it's huge that Rob comments "there is certainly some truth to the article". He had good opportunity to dismiss the article, or dodge the question without commenting on whether it was true.

He chose to comment that there's some truth to the article.

It's not a verification that everything in article is true, far from it. But I think we can dismiss the claims that the article was just all lies or false rumors, unless we want to also accuse Rob Irving or perpetrating those lies and false rumors about Star Citizen.

SEANMCAD

Vrika said:

I think it's huge that Rob comments "there is certainly some truth to the article". He had good opportunity to dismiss the article, or dodge the question without commenting on whether it was true.

But he chose to comment that there's some truth to the article.

It's not a verification that everything in article is true, far from it. But I think we can dismiss the claims that the article was just all lies or false rumours, unless we want to also accuse Rob Irving or perpetrating those lies and false rumours about Star Citizen.

specific to 'feature creep' and only feature creep 

forcelima

So he said there is some truth to the feature creep? Or is that your opinion?

rodarin

yea but this isnt going to be a massive game anyway. e have already seen its going to be just another game with a bunch of limited pop instances, and what are those? 24 people/entities? Hardly a game that is genre changing.

So they could even now throw something out and EASILY add to it later on.

But I am one of those that think they dont have shit, and the tech demo people are playing now is about 90% of all the 'content' they have. They may possibly have a larger universe but if its empty does it matter? Well it might if they added to it later. But I also dont think they can implement what they have and keep it stable, they cant stabilize the tiny version they have now.

The 'foundation' you mention is more than likely the stand alone game they are actually trying to deliver now. Again hardly anything so massive they actually have to worry about it.

The only MASSIVE things they have now are dreams, I dont think they have more than 5 or 10% of anything actually existing let alone working or ready for release.

In the end the reason this is all 'working' for Roberts is the attitude (naivete) of the backers and people who are 'committed' (pun intended) to this project. In the end we wont really know anything unless someone is in there now undercover and wearing a camera and mic and recording everything, but even then the defenders would still not believe it. 

We will have a few more years to debate it for sure, and more than likely more and more people leaving to continue the drama.

DKLond

rodarin said:

yea but this isnt going to be a massive game anyway. e have already seen its going to be just another game with a bunch of limited pop instances, and what are those? 24 people/entities? Hardly a game that is genre changing.

So they could even now throw something out and EASILY add to it later on.

But I am one of those that think they dont have shit, and the tech demo people are playing now is about 90% of all the 'content' they have. They may possibly have a larger universe but if its empty does it matter? Well it might if they added to it later. But I also dont think they can implement what they have and keep it stable, they cant stabilize the tiny version they have now.

The 'foundation' you mention is more than likely the stand alone game they are actually trying to deliver now. Again hardly anything so massive they actually have to worry about it.

The only MASSIVE things they have now are dreams, I dont think they have more than 5 or 10% of anything actually existing let alone working or ready for release.

In the end the reason this is all 'working' for Roberts is the attitude (naivete) of the backers and people who are 'committed' (pun intended) to this project. In the end we wont really know anything unless someone is in there now undercover and wearing a camera and mic and recording everything, but even then the defenders would still not believe it. 

We will have a few more years to debate it for sure, and more than likely more and more people leaving to continue the drama.

That might be worth something if you had anything but utter conjecture to base it on.

This game is obviously shit and worthless if you ignore everything you see and everything they say - and just flat out believe they're lying in every interview and all video footage of their work is fabricated with the 300+ people working on it doing nothing at all.

To me, that's such a silly perspective I lack the words.

Then again, I've been wrong before.

In any case, I'll gladly entertain the notion that they're in over their heads - but unsubstantiated paranoia like what you're suggesting is not worth much beyond what I've just said, frankly.

SEANMCAD

forcelima said:

So he said there is some truth to the feature creep? Or is that your opinion?

of course there is feature creep and that should be painfully obvious to anyone who even lightly follows this game and an article is not needed to even proove it. but that has nothing to do with bad HR practices. its just a troll post

Phaserlight

FlyByKnight said:

"There's some truth to the article"

"So you're saying there's a chance it's ALL a lie!" - SC Cult

This meme doesn't really make sense in the context in which it's used; in the movie, Jim Carrey's character is responding to his female love interest's assertion that there is even a slimmer chance than he initially posits of them ever getting together (something like 'one in a million' whereas before it was 'one in a thousand'); in other words, the reason it's funny is because of the emotional reaction in response to something that is 'mostly untrue'.  It would be as though someone were excited at the prospect of winning the lottery after being told the odds (a form of 'simpleton humor', which is also irony).

The OP links to a video in which a former dev apparently makes the statement that there is 'some truth' to the Escapist article; colloquially, I took this to mean that in the former dev's opinion the article may be mostly untrue but certainly pointing toward some facts.

The argument being bandied about in this thread is ostensibly 'well, how much of it is true?' (or, at turns, what parts of it are true?); saying there is 'some truth' to something generally implies that the majority may be untrue.

You are coopting this meme to suggest an emotional reaction to something that may be entirely false, which is actually the opposite of what's going on in this scene.  A much closer reading of the original scene in this movie would be similar to the reaction by some Star Citizen critics in this thread.  If an article is 'mostly untrue' it requires no 'mental flip' to apply Jim Carrey's reaction in the above picture to the positive assertions in the article.  In other words, you are using mental gymnastics to apply this meme.  The logic of this just bothers me.

I have no opinion on how the former dev's alleged statements impact the veracity of the Escapist article either way, but when I saw this meme it caused a moment of confusion before I figured out what you were really trying to say and I thought I ought to explain why.

tl;dr: you're memeing wrong

Deathenger

This is just glorious. The fanbois are really scooping from the bottom barrel of excuses to try and counter Rob's comment on the article.

Escape Artist stood by the article despite CR legal threats and CR still did nothing. So why didn't CR push his legal threats? Because they know it's true and wouldn't have a leg to stand on it court when they would have to call people in to testify.

We're going to see more and more of this and I love every second of it.

SEANMCAD

Deathenger said:

Escape Artist stood by the article despite CR legal threats and CR still did nothing. 

Because its not illegal in the states to report something that is non factual as fact. As long as your source says its true that is all that matters.

but this OP has nothing to do with bad HR practices only feature creep which is a bit like pointing out the sky is blue on a nice day...really? seriously..? yeah already knew that thanks

Kefo

Deathenger said:

This is just glorious. The fanbois are really scooping from the bottom barrel of excuses to try and counter Rob's comment on the article.

Escape Artist stood by the article despite CR legal threats and CR still did nothing. So why didn't CR push his legal threats? Because they know it's true and wouldn't have a leg to stand on it court when they would have to call people in to testify.

We're going to see more and more of this and I love every second of it.

Already having a good chuckle at some of the people trying to either spin this as a positive or insult the person so what they say can be dismissed.

Maybe this is the push that is needed to get more to speak publicly or to get the escapist to finally run its follow up article but I won't hold my breath.

DKLond

Why wouldn't they run the follow up if their work is solid?

SEANMCAD

DKLond said:

Why wouldn't they run the follow up if their work is solid?

and why wouldnt other sites start reporting the same thing after awhile. Its clearly a story of interest.

Phaserlight

SEANMCAD said:

DKLond said:

Why wouldn't they run the follow up if their work is solid?

and why wouldnt other sites start reporting the same thing after awhile. Its clearly a story of interest.

The short answer is that so far there's nothing more to the story, and as the Escapist is under threat of lawsuit by Ortwin Freyermuth there probably won't be.  Sometimes there's enough said in one article.

Other sites certainly did pick up on the Escapist's article.  Here's Ten Ton Hammer:

http://www.tentonhammer.com/columns/respawn/star-citizens-latest-conflict-ex-employee-dissension-and-roberts-intervention

However, it's important to note the difference between primary sources and mirroring.  The Escapist was in a somewhat privileged position in running their story.

DKLond

Lawsuit?

Again, if their work is solid the lawsuit won't be a threat.

Shodanas

Deathenger said:

This is just glorious. The fanbois are really scooping from the bottom barrel of excuses to try and counter Rob's comment on the article.

Escape Artist stood by the article despite CR legal threats and CR still did nothing. So why didn't CR push his legal threats? Because they know it's true and wouldn't have a leg to stand on it court when they would have to call people in to testify.

We're going to see more and more of this and I love every second of it.

Irving: "there is some truth to the article". without of course elaborating on this "truth". Not one bit.

Translation commenced by the maker of this thread and the anti SC aquad: Everything in the article is spot on.

I sure hope we see more of this.

FlyByKnight

Phaserlight said:

FlyByKnight said:

"There's some truth to the article"

"So you're saying there's a chance it's ALL a lie!" - SC Cult

This meme doesn't really make sense in the context in which it's used; in the movie, Jim Carrey's character is responding to his female love interest's assertion that there is even a slimmer chance than he initially posits of them ever getting together (something like 'one in a million' whereas before it was 'one in a thousand'); in other words, the reason it's funny is because of the emotional reaction in response to something that is 'mostly untrue'.  It would be as though someone were excited at the prospect of winning the lottery after being told the odds (a form of 'simpleton humor', which is also irony).

The OP links to a video in which a former dev apparently makes the statement that there is 'some truth' to the Escapist article; colloquially, I took this to mean that in the former dev's opinion the article may be mostly untrue but certainly pointing toward some facts.

The argument being bandied about in this thread is ostensibly 'well, how much of it is true?' (or, at turns, what parts of it are true?); saying there is 'some truth' to something generally implies that the majority may be untrue.

You are coopting this meme to suggest an emotional reaction to something that may be entirely false, which is actually the opposite of what's going on in this scene.  A much closer reading of the original scene in this movie would be similar to the reaction by some Star Citizen critics in this thread.  If an article is 'mostly untrue' it requires no 'mental flip' to apply Jim Carrey's reaction in the above picture to the positive assertions in the article.  In other words, you are using mental gymnastics to apply this meme.  The logic of this just bothers me.

I have no opinion on how the former dev's alleged statements impact the veracity of the Escapist article either way, but when I saw this meme it caused a moment of confusion before I figured out what you were really trying to say and I thought I ought to explain why.

tl;dr: you're memeing wrong

HAHAH. WTF.

Realizer

 Personally I think it's hilarious that as soon as these guys are out of the job, they run to the nearest news site and do interviews for money. Hopefully they can grow up and become adults, and figure out the world isn't some cutesy time story where everyone is nice and cares about your feelings. It's a game company not a Democracy, you get paid to do a job, so do it, or leave and let someone replace you that can do the job.

SEANMCAD

Phaserlight said:

SEANMCAD said:

DKLond said:

Why wouldn't they run the follow up if their work is solid?

and why wouldnt other sites start reporting the same thing after awhile. Its clearly a story of interest.

The short answer is that so far there's nothing more to the story, and as the Escapist is under threat of lawsuit by Ortwin Freyermuth there probably won't be.  Sometimes there's enough said in one article.

Other sites certainly did pick up on the Escapist's article.  Here's Ten Ton Hammer:

http://www.tentonhammer.com/columns/respawn/star-citizens-latest-conflict-ex-employee-dissension-and-roberts-intervention

However, it's important to note the difference between primary sources and mirroring.  The Escapist was in a somewhat privileged position in running their story.

kind of reminds me of this OP thread. 

People with palms sweating to hit the OP link thinking its about HR practices only to find out its about 'feature creep' as if nobody on the planet didnt already know this game has feature creep to it.

Kefo

Shodanas said:

Deathenger said:

This is just glorious. The fanbois are really scooping from the bottom barrel of excuses to try and counter Rob's comment on the article.

Escape Artist stood by the article despite CR legal threats and CR still did nothing. So why didn't CR push his legal threats? Because they know it's true and wouldn't have a leg to stand on it court when they would have to call people in to testify.

We're going to see more and more of this and I love every second of it.

Irving: "there is some truth to the article". without of course elaborating on this "truth". Not one bit.

Translation commenced by the maker of this thread and the anti SC aquad: Everything in the article is spot on.

I sure hope we see more of this.

Not all of us "anti-sc" people take what he said as all of the article as being true. When he does make a vague statement like that though you will question what part he is talking about and it is a nod to the escapist that they weren't just bullshitting an article. 

SEANMCAD

Kefo said:

Shodanas said:

Deathenger said:

This is just glorious. The fanbois are really scooping from the bottom barrel of excuses to try and counter Rob's comment on the article.

Escape Artist stood by the article despite CR legal threats and CR still did nothing. So why didn't CR push his legal threats? Because they know it's true and wouldn't have a leg to stand on it court when they would have to call people in to testify.

We're going to see more and more of this and I love every second of it.

Irving: "there is some truth to the article". without of course elaborating on this "truth". Not one bit.

Translation commenced by the maker of this thread and the anti SC aquad: Everything in the article is spot on.

I sure hope we see more of this.

Not all of us "anti-sc" people take what he said as all of the article as being true. When he does make a vague statement like that though you will question what part he is talking about and it is a nod to the escapist that they weren't just bullshitting an article. 

its all about 'feature creep'

the 'anit-sc' community is terrible at making troll posts.