I agree with the poster that said the downfall of Revival was contributed greatly by the "yes-men".
From my time on the forums and irc, my greatest fear for CoE is the community - not because it is toxic, but because it, too, has its share of yes-men, sycophants and some very close-minded people.
Some of the longest-standing community members in CoE are also the least open to debate, conflict, or opposing ideas of any kind, even when it's unrelated to CoE. I've also seen a kind of "herd mentality" where when, if one is contradicted, several of the others rush in defense of them to shout down the person questioning something.
That probably sounds harsh, and by and large the general community is mostly open to discussion, but these kinds of qualities in a vocal minority so invested in a game are dangerous, as Revival is now seeing.
Revival developed by Illfonic and Chronicles of Elyria developed by Soulbound Studios. Two games and two studios with very similar game concepts and promises.
I'm sorry to hear it, Yanocchi. I remember you being a huge fan of that game. It's always a shame when a game you are looking forward to so much gets cancelled.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
I heard of revival back when Illfonic were still working on the fps module for star citizen and it was one of those games that always sounded bit too good to be true. Since then I have seen a lot of game design ideas but no game footage and that's never a good sign. The only thing that surprised me about this cancellation is that it came this quickly.
Chronicles of Elyria will have huge problems building the game they have promised and if they don't start cutting down on their promises its never going to be launched. They have far too many complex designs for things that mostly work in the background which is a huge waste of game development resources.
I'm almost certain that CoE will be in development in 2020 and still be far away from an official release.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
They associated with CIG to build the FPS module, saw that CIG was funding itself based on pre-selling digital assets for large chunks of cash, tried to do the same with houses instead of ships...failed.
I, for one, won't miss this.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Is that the game where you buy housing and house items with real money from the cash shop, but the game is designed so that mobs can actually come and steal your stuff out of your house when you're offline so you have to re-buy them from the cash shop?
Revival developed by Illfonic and Chronicles of Elyria developed by Soulbound Studios. Two games and two studios with very similar game concepts and promises.
I'm sorry to hear it, Yanocchi. I remember you being a huge fan of that game. It's always a shame when a game you are looking forward to so much gets cancelled.
Azaron, thank you for the condolences. I was a huge fan of Revival because I have been a huge fan of Neverwinter Nights multiplayer persistent worlds for more than ten years. For me multiplayer persistent worlds of NWN 1 and NWN 2 with dungeon master client/toolset capabilities built into the core of the games and immersed tight-knit communities have always been more interesting than
commercial MMORPGs. In Revival I saw an attempt to create a game that takes the concept of NWN to a next evolution step.I had been sceptical about the concept like many other people coming from NWN community, until Revival developers explained in detail how some automated virtual dungeon master systems would greatly facilitate the work of human dungeon masters. I would have been very happy if Illfonic had delivered a basic small MMORPG with evolved DM systems as its new innovation. Since Bioware had succeeded in developing DM client systems and integrating them into multiplayer persistent world environment, I thought it was finally realistic to expect evolution in that direction 14 years after the release of NWN 1.
I heard of revival back when Illfonic were still working on the fps module for star citizen and it was one of those games that always sounded bit too good to be true. Since then I have seen a lot of game design ideas but no game footage and that's never a good sign. The only thing that surprised me about this cancellation is that it came this quickly.
Chronicles of Elyria will have huge problems building the game they have promised and if they don't start cutting down on their promises its never going to be launched. They have far too many complex designs for things that mostly work in the background which is a huge waste of game development resources.
I'm almost certain that CoE will be in development in 2020 and still be far away from an official release.
The game is not vaporware.
Sign up for Chronicles of Elyria here don't forget to use my friend code - B4ACB3
Wizardry brought up a very important point. I've been gaming since we had to march down to the local arcade and play monochrome games as big as a bus.
The big difference between the industry of today, and the industry of yesterday, was that there really wasn't much money in the game industry of old. Games were made out of love, and out of a desire to create something that the programmer wanted to create.
A game studio had perhaps a dozen people employed, graphics were limited so they focused on story and enjoyable elements.
Today, it's a cash cow, developers release games with the goal of becoming the next Blizzard, they have hundreds of people on staff, it's become all about the flash and the cash.
Unfortunately, at the end of the day, the ones that suffer are us. We live in a society that thinks with their wallets, the problem with that theory is we're conditioned to only think a certain way. We need to stop throwing mass amounts of money at pipe dreams that do not exist in exchange for an in-game flash that also doesn't exist.
If a company cannot secure the necessary funding in the private sector, then there is a reason. If something is a guaranteed success, as most of these companies claim they will be, then an investor would be all over that. So there is obviously something that prevents these people from throwing their money into the ring.
For example, I remember a game company that shall remain nameless, that had the dream concept for a game. They couldn't secure funding. Why? Because even though they had the ability and the concept, they lacked the organization, the leadership, and the ability to manage the product and budget.
This post is so right. The problem does remain heavily with our society thinking they can wipe out their wallets all the time and that they become so entitled that when they use their wallets the universe gives them power. We see this in games, we see this in our government. Until we fix the Entitlement problem we are screwed in real life and in our gaming lives. Paying $15s a month entitles you to the content, it dos not entitle you to easy content or welfare epics which is the best model. You get what you earn in the game just like if you spent money to earn a degree it does not entitle you to a job, it just gives you an advantage over others that dont. MMO Subs are the way to go and stopping this endless parade of items without effort, or items for green pieces of paper in your wallet.
Wizardry brought up a very important point. I've been gaming since we had to march down to the local arcade and play monochrome games as big as a bus.
The big difference between the industry of today, and the industry of yesterday, was that there really wasn't much money in the game industry of old. Games were made out of love, and out of a desire to create something that the programmer wanted to create.
A game studio had perhaps a dozen people employed, graphics were limited so they focused on story and enjoyable elements.
Today, it's a cash cow, developers release games with the goal of becoming the next Blizzard, they have hundreds of people on staff, it's become all about the flash and the cash.
Unfortunately, at the end of the day, the ones that suffer are us. We live in a society that thinks with their wallets, the problem with that theory is we're conditioned to only think a certain way. We need to stop throwing mass amounts of money at pipe dreams that do not exist in exchange for an in-game flash that also doesn't exist.
If a company cannot secure the necessary funding in the private sector, then there is a reason. If something is a guaranteed success, as most of these companies claim they will be, then an investor would be all over that. So there is obviously something that prevents these people from throwing their money into the ring.
For example, I remember a game company that shall remain nameless, that had the dream concept for a game. They couldn't secure funding. Why? Because even though they had the ability and the concept, they lacked the organization, the leadership, and the ability to manage the product and budget.
This post is so right. The problem does remain heavily with our society thinking they can wipe out their wallets all the time and that they become so entitled that when they use their wallets the universe gives them power. We see this in games, we see this in our government. Until we fix the Entitlement problem we are screwed in real life and in our gaming lives. Paying $15s a month entitles you to the content, it dos not entitle you to easy content or welfare epics which is the best model. You get what you earn in the game just like if you spent money to earn a degree it does not entitle you to a job, it just gives you an advantage over others that dont. MMO Subs are the way to go and stopping this endless parade of items without effort, or items for green pieces of paper in your wallet.
it's theory's(pipedreams) like these that don't secure funding. if you want to make this great supposed game, make it with your team lol. how are they going to work 60hrs a week on a project for free. they have expenses at home as well. Game would take 15yrs to finish and would be so behind all the other games. you should "vote" with your cash if you want to steer this gaming industry anywhere different. I'd like to see you take your 2,000,000 dollars you have earned over the course of life and through it away.
it's theory's(pipedreams) like these that don't secure funding. if you want to make this great supposed game, make it with your team lol. how are they going to work 60hrs a week on a project for free. they have expenses at home as well. Game would take 15yrs to finish and would be so behind all the other games. you should "vote" with your cash if you want to steer this gaming industry anywhere different. I'd like to see you take your 2,000,000 dollars you have earned over the course of life and through it away.
Unlike you I do vote with my Wallet. The PROBLEM is when your wallet drives MMOs to what they are today because everyone wants to be the next WOW. When the publisher NEVER becomes that next WOW they end up bringing in cash shops to try to make that money another way with Greed. Yes FFXIV has a cash shop, but outside of 5 rings and a mount the cash shop really means nothing to the game and was only designed to help build a new data center for the EU group. I am fine with that. Problem is CEOs want the cash shops to be there way to WOW like cash.
The problem is not Voting with your Wallet like I do by not spending money on WOW anymore because I have hated it since WOTLK. So I dont pay for it. But I do not way hate I paid for WOW during TBC and never seen Sunwell, content needed to be LFR like because I never got to Sunwell. That's entitlement, if you dont like it don't pay for it. I was happy with TBC Content though I did no more than ZA and a little SCC.
I heard of revival back when Illfonic were still working on the fps module for star citizen and it was one of those games that always sounded bit too good to be true. Since then I have seen a lot of game design ideas but no game footage and that's never a good sign. The only thing that surprised me about this cancellation is that it came this quickly.
Chronicles of Elyria will have huge problems building the game they have promised and if they don't start cutting down on their promises its never going to be launched. They have far too many complex designs for things that mostly work in the background which is a huge waste of game development resources.
I'm almost certain that CoE will be in development in 2020 and still be far away from an official release.
The game is not vaporware.
Why do you respond with a mantra like "its not vaporware" when my post didn't even include that word.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
I heard of revival back when Illfonic were still working on the fps module for star citizen and it was one of those games that always sounded bit too good to be true. Since then I have seen a lot of game design ideas but no game footage and that's never a good sign. The only thing that surprised me about this cancellation is that it came this quickly.
Chronicles of Elyria will have huge problems building the game they have promised and if they don't start cutting down on their promises its never going to be launched. They have far too many complex designs for things that mostly work in the background which is a huge waste of game development resources.
I'm almost certain that CoE will be in development in 2020 and still be far away from an official release.
The game is not vaporware.
Why do you respond with a mantra like "its not vaporware" when my post didn't even include that word.
Saying it is "almost certain that CoE will be in development in 2020" is almost like saying it's vaporware. You're saying that they can't do what they are claiming in the timespan that they have said they can do it. It's on the same level of negativity. You've got to realize that they are setting out with a clear focus on what the game will be like if only the minimum amount of money is reached with the KS. And they can simply hire more people to add other great features if we hit more. However, it's certainly possible to have a nice game out before the end of 2017.
Well i know how to use those game engines and i taught myself,so if they had ANY kind of expertise at all,they would easily get the game built.
Networking experts,well they simply need to hire them.I think in reality,they had little money and likely had some employees promise to work for free with some kind of future kickback based on promises of making a lot of money through sales.They see Chris Roberts pulling in a 100 million,they figured,if we get even 10 million we are set except not everyone is a good used car salesmen,apparently CR is.
So when they lost those employees they had hoped would work for free for a year or two they had no money to replace them,this is what i feel went down.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
On the COE game,sure anything is possible,no game is 100% a guarantee,a lot of COE is just statistical ideas although yes a bit of interaction which needs a lot of effort.I would imagine housing is instanced,world will be sort of barren "lack assets" perhaps only 1-2 cities/towns etc etc,so yes i expect corner cutting because all games are doing it.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I heard of revival back when Illfonic were still working on the fps module for star citizen and it was one of those games that always sounded bit too good to be true. Since then I have seen a lot of game design ideas but no game footage and that's never a good sign. The only thing that surprised me about this cancellation is that it came this quickly.
Chronicles of Elyria will have huge problems building the game they have promised and if they don't start cutting down on their promises its never going to be launched. They have far too many complex designs for things that mostly work in the background which is a huge waste of game development resources.
I'm almost certain that CoE will be in development in 2020 and still be far away from an official release.
The game is not vaporware.
Why do you respond with a mantra like "its not vaporware" when my post didn't even include that word.
Saying it is "almost certain that CoE will be in development in 2020" is almost like saying it's vaporware. You're saying that they can't do what they are claiming in the timespan that they have said they can do it. It's on the same level of negativity. You've got to realize that they are setting out with a clear focus on what the game will be like if only the minimum amount of money is reached with the KS. And they can simply hire more people to add other great features if we hit more. However, it's certainly possible to have a nice game out before the end of 2017.
I like your response far more.
I have seen a lot of titles making similar bold promises on a limited time scale so when I read on the scope for CoE red flags are showing immediately. These sort of indie titles have shown up here for years, games like origins of malu, trials of ascension, citadel of sorcery, repopulation, otherland and divergence online. People speak about how promising they are but they never gets fully released.
Even games with smaller scope and developers that are far more experienced have problems finishing on time, just look at shroud of the avatar and camelot unchained that struggle on wrapping things up. Elite dangerous is somewhat unique in getting things done, but that's because Braben decided to limit the scope and do multiple releases instead.
What chronicles of elyria have now is a developer that wants to make everything inside his game which is why so many titles just never gets finished. What they need more than anything else is a project manager with the experience to know what should be kept and what should be cut from the game. That's the only way for this game to release in 2017.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
I heard of revival back when Illfonic were still working on the fps module for star citizen and it was one of those games that always sounded bit too good to be true. Since then I have seen a lot of game design ideas but no game footage and that's never a good sign. The only thing that surprised me about this cancellation is that it came this quickly.
Chronicles of Elyria will have huge problems building the game they have promised and if they don't start cutting down on their promises its never going to be launched. They have far too many complex designs for things that mostly work in the background which is a huge waste of game development resources.
I'm almost certain that CoE will be in development in 2020 and still be far away from an official release.
The game is not vaporware.
Why do you respond with a mantra like "its not vaporware" when my post didn't even include that word.
Saying it is "almost certain that CoE will be in development in 2020" is almost like saying it's vaporware. You're saying that they can't do what they are claiming in the timespan that they have said they can do it. It's on the same level of negativity. You've got to realize that they are setting out with a clear focus on what the game will be like if only the minimum amount of money is reached with the KS. And they can simply hire more people to add other great features if we hit more. However, it's certainly possible to have a nice game out before the end of 2017.
I like your response far more.
I have seen a lot of titles making similar bold promises on a limited time scale so when I read on the scope for CoE red flags are showing immediately. These sort of indie titles have shown up here for years, games like origins of malu, trials of ascension, citadel of sorcery, repopulation, otherland and divergence online. People speak about how promising they are but they never gets fully released.
Even games with smaller scope and developers that are far more experienced have problems finishing on time, just look at shroud of the avatar and camelot unchained that struggle on wrapping things up. Elite dangerous is somewhat unique in getting things done, but that's because Braben decided to limit the scope and do multiple releases instead.
What chronicles of elyria have now is a developer that wants to make everything inside his game which is why so many titles just never gets finished. What they need more than anything else is a project manager with the experience to know what should be kept and what should be cut from the game. That's the only way for this game to release in 2017.
Yep. the scope is far beyond the budget but then can't tell them that. Will it tank? At some point reality is going to set in and people are going to lose their money.
One of the most ricidulous decisions was to spend half of production time creating five different estates (very big mansions). Revival was supposed to have ten servers with only one copy of each estate on every server. In other words, the company spent a great amount of effort building game content that they were going to sell for 50 people (10 servers x 5 estates x 1 copy of each estate). They never revealed the exact sum but everyone was under impression that each estate would cost thousands of dollars. The decision was to sell each server to one buyer without any option for a guild or several buyers to co-fund the purchase.
I heard of revival back when Illfonic were still working on the fps module for star citizen and it was one of those games that always sounded bit too good to be true. Since then I have seen a lot of game design ideas but no game footage and that's never a good sign. The only thing that surprised me about this cancellation is that it came this quickly.
Chronicles of Elyria will have huge problems building the game they have promised and if they don't start cutting down on their promises its never going to be launched. They have far too many complex designs for things that mostly work in the background which is a huge waste of game development resources.
I'm almost certain that CoE will be in development in 2020 and still be far away from an official release.
The game is not vaporware.
Why do you respond with a mantra like "its not vaporware" when my post didn't even include that word.
Saying it is "almost certain that CoE will be in development in 2020" is almost like saying it's vaporware. You're saying that they can't do what they are claiming in the timespan that they have said they can do it. It's on the same level of negativity. You've got to realize that they are setting out with a clear focus on what the game will be like if only the minimum amount of money is reached with the KS. And they can simply hire more people to add other great features if we hit more. However, it's certainly possible to have a nice game out before the end of 2017.
I like your response far more.
I have seen a lot of titles making similar bold promises on a limited time scale so when I read on the scope for CoE red flags are showing immediately. These sort of indie titles have shown up here for years, games like origins of malu, trials of ascension, citadel of sorcery, repopulation, otherland and divergence online. People speak about how promising they are but they never gets fully released.
Even games with smaller scope and developers that are far more experienced have problems finishing on time, just look at shroud of the avatar and camelot unchained that struggle on wrapping things up. Elite dangerous is somewhat unique in getting things done, but that's because Braben decided to limit the scope and do multiple releases instead.
What chronicles of elyria have now is a developer that wants to make everything inside his game which is why so many titles just never gets finished. What they need more than anything else is a project manager with the experience to know what should be kept and what should be cut from the game. That's the only way for this game to release in 2017.
Yep. the scope is far beyond the budget but then can't tell them that. Will it tank? At some point reality is going to set in and people are going to lose their money.
Just so you know... They are going to be 100% clear on what features will be in with what kind of money. Just the base game that will still "feel" like CoE will be at the 900K mark. Anything beyond that, a big number of stretch goals, are features that have been mentioned before but aren't 100% needed for the game to be fun. So those will come beyond the 900K mark. An example you can think of is talents. Those have probably been quite far down the stretch goal list for a long time. They're not "necessary" and especially not at the start of the game.
So.... Reality is going to set in before people pledge their money. It'll be clear what the game offers at what stretch goal mark when the KS comes up.
I learned about Revival recently, here on this sub-forum. I had a brief look on their site. The first phase of development was housing. Seems like an odd thing to me. Housing isn't the core of a mmorpg.
Why did they cancel Revival? Because what they had planned turned out to be a lot more expensive than they expected. I've backed a lot of kickstarter campaigns for video games and requiring a more money and time is a common thing. So i expect that to be the case for CoE too.
AAA companies won't make games like Revival or CoE. It's to much of a risk. They spend most of their money on voice acting and marketing.
If you want a game like Revial or CoE, that tries something new, then you have to support indie devs. But only spend money on them, you won't regret losing when they can't deliver.
Just so you know... They are going to be 100% clear on what features will be in with what kind of money. Just the base game that will still "feel" like CoE will be at the 900K mark. Anything beyond that, a big number of stretch goals, are features that have been mentioned before but aren't 100% needed for the game to be fun. So those will come beyond the 900K mark. An example you can think of is talents. Those have probably been quite far down the stretch goal list for a long time. They're not "necessary" and especially not at the start of the game.
So.... Reality is going to set in before people pledge their money. It'll be clear what the game offers at what stretch goal mark when the KS comes up.
The scope of the project itself is far beyond 900K. The cost in hardware is beyond 900K just to get it functional. Making it on one or two computers is not going to work. Will take more like a couple hundred cores just to do all the computations not including the ridiculous amount of database to persist the entire thing.
Cost may be more in the neighborhood of 50 to 100 million which most MMO are currently costing and why they aren't being developed.
A single player game or maybe some network coop but MMO? Nope not going to happen on 900K.
Just so you know... They are going to be 100% clear on what features will be in with what kind of money. Just the base game that will still "feel" like CoE will be at the 900K mark. Anything beyond that, a big number of stretch goals, are features that have been mentioned before but aren't 100% needed for the game to be fun. So those will come beyond the 900K mark. An example you can think of is talents. Those have probably been quite far down the stretch goal list for a long time. They're not "necessary" and especially not at the start of the game.
So.... Reality is going to set in before people pledge their money. It'll be clear what the game offers at what stretch goal mark when the KS comes up.
The scope of the project itself is far beyond 900K. The cost in hardware is beyond 900K just to get it functional. Making it on one or two computers is not going to work. Will take more like a couple hundred cores just to do all the computations not including the ridiculous amount of database to persist the entire thing.
Cost may be more in the neighborhood of 50 to 100 million which most MMO are currently costing and why they aren't being developed.
A single player game or maybe some network coop but MMO? Nope not going to happen on 900K.
o.O
Can you list out what thoses costs go towards? Also which MMOs are costing that much with a team of 15 working on it. (specifically team of 15 or less)
edit: bold statements like this without any supportive argument around it do nothing for a discussion. When people make claims of things without justifying their viewpoint...
Visit the Chronicles of Elyria official site and the Official Wiki... an upcoming MMO from Soulbound Studios with real consequences to your actions. Finite Resources, WYSIWYG looting to player created and maintained maps and a deep modular crafting system. So much more that hasn't been said, ask questions! Post your thoughts! Spread the word of COE!
If you haven't yet, register with my referrer code on the official website: B0E240
Nah. I think Chronicles will release, but Revival made the mistake of selling housing for real money.
Housing for real money isn't a problem its how much they charge and how they do it for example selling instanced housing is great in a game, RIFT for example but better so for example a player who enters a mansion can select the players whom they wish to load by default and such, its the way they went about it and I knew the game was going to fail anyways.
Revival developed by Illfonic and Chronicles of Elyria developed by Soulbound Studios. Two games and two studios with very similar game concepts and promises.
I'm sorry to hear it, Yanocchi. I remember you being a huge fan of that game. It's always a shame when a game you are looking forward to so much gets cancelled.
Azaron, thank you for the condolences. I was a huge fan of Revival because I have been a huge fan of Neverwinter Nights multiplayer persistent worlds for more than ten years. For me multiplayer persistent worlds of NWN 1 and NWN 2 with dungeon master client/toolset capabilities built into the core of the games and immersed tight-knit communities have always been more interesting than
commercial MMORPGs. In Revival I saw an attempt to create a game that takes the concept of NWN to a next evolution step.I had been sceptical about the concept like many other people coming from NWN community, until Revival developers explained in detail how some automated virtual dungeon master systems would greatly facilitate the work of human dungeon masters. I would have been very happy if Illfonic had delivered a basic small MMORPG with evolved DM systems as its new innovation. Since Bioware had succeeded in developing DM client systems and integrating them into multiplayer persistent world environment, I thought it was finally realistic to expect evolution in that direction 14 years after the release of NWN 1.
I absolutely loved the original Neverwinter Nights and the persistent RP worlds people made with it. I kinda figured a DM client would never happen on an MMO, given that the majority of MMO players would only be interested in "How can I best exploit this feature for phat lewt and easy XP?!" similar to what they always do when devs give us tools to make our own content.
The closest we seem to getting that would be Shards Online (http://shardsonline.com/). I'm not quite sure how expansive the storytelling features on that game will be, but having a "shard" to build your own world and community on sounds like the next best thing to the NWN experience as far as MMOs go.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
Revival developed by Illfonic and Chronicles of Elyria developed by Soulbound Studios. Two games and two studios with very similar game concepts and promises.
I'm sorry to hear it, Yanocchi. I remember you being a huge fan of that game. It's always a shame when a game you are looking forward to so much gets cancelled.
Azaron, thank you for the condolences. I was a huge fan of Revival because I have been a huge fan of Neverwinter Nights multiplayer persistent worlds for more than ten years. For me multiplayer persistent worlds of NWN 1 and NWN 2 with dungeon master client/toolset capabilities built into the core of the games and immersed tight-knit communities have always been more interesting than
commercial MMORPGs. In Revival I saw an attempt to create a game that takes the concept of NWN to a next evolution step.I had been sceptical about the concept like many other people coming from NWN community, until Revival developers explained in detail how some automated virtual dungeon master systems would greatly facilitate the work of human dungeon masters. I would have been very happy if Illfonic had delivered a basic small MMORPG with evolved DM systems as its new innovation. Since Bioware had succeeded in developing DM client systems and integrating them into multiplayer persistent world environment, I thought it was finally realistic to expect evolution in that direction 14 years after the release of NWN 1.
I absolutely loved the original Neverwinter Nights and the persistent RP worlds people made with it. I kinda figured a DM client would never happen on an MMO, given that the majority of MMO players would only be interested in "How can I best exploit this feature for phat lewt and easy XP?!" similar to what they always do when devs give us tools to make our own content.
The closest we seem to getting that would be Shards Online (http://shardsonline.com/). I'm not quite sure how expansive the storytelling features on that game will be, but having a "shard" to build your own world and community on sounds like the next best thing to the NWN experience as far as MMOs go.
I bought into revival sadly but this shards game gives me a glimmer of happiness in this time of sadness thank you.
Revival developed by Illfonic and Chronicles of Elyria developed by Soulbound Studios. Two games and two studios with very similar game concepts and promises.
I'm sorry to hear it, Yanocchi. I remember you being a huge fan of that game. It's always a shame when a game you are looking forward to so much gets cancelled.
Azaron, thank you for the condolences. I was a huge fan of Revival because I have been a huge fan of Neverwinter Nights multiplayer persistent worlds for more than ten years. For me multiplayer persistent worlds of NWN 1 and NWN 2 with dungeon master client/toolset capabilities built into the core of the games and immersed tight-knit communities have always been more interesting than
commercial MMORPGs. In Revival I saw an attempt to create a game that takes the concept of NWN to a next evolution step.I had been sceptical about the concept like many other people coming from NWN community, until Revival developers explained in detail how some automated virtual dungeon master systems would greatly facilitate the work of human dungeon masters. I would have been very happy if Illfonic had delivered a basic small MMORPG with evolved DM systems as its new innovation. Since Bioware had succeeded in developing DM client systems and integrating them into multiplayer persistent world environment, I thought it was finally realistic to expect evolution in that direction 14 years after the release of NWN 1.
I absolutely loved the original Neverwinter Nights and the persistent RP worlds people made with it. I kinda figured a DM client would never happen on an MMO, given that the majority of MMO players would only be interested in "How can I best exploit this feature for phat lewt and easy XP?!" similar to what they always do when devs give us tools to make our own content.
The closest we seem to getting that would be Shards Online (http://shardsonline.com/). I'm not quite sure how expansive the storytelling features on that game will be, but having a "shard" to build your own world and community on sounds like the next best thing to the NWN experience as far as MMOs go.
You are right about the incompatibility of average mainstream MMORPG players with immersive persistent RP worlds. Daily gameplay routines like grinding for experience points and items may be same as in an average MMORPG but involvement of dungeon masters and the specifics of player community make it a very different experience when social interaction gameplay with DM involvement takes place.
I've been aware of Shards Online for a while and noticed it is trying to introduce some elements of NWN. I'll have a closer look when it is ready. My first impression was that it is a light game compared with modern NWN 2 servers. Nowadays NWN 2 has great graphics. Some level designers have imported stuff from modern games like Skyrim and some PW developers have made cool innovative systems and features. However, I won't dismiss Shards Online because it might have some other redeeming qualities to compensate for certain disadvantages or inferior properties.
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From my time on the forums and irc, my greatest fear for CoE is the community - not because it is toxic, but because it, too, has its share of yes-men, sycophants and some very close-minded people.
Some of the longest-standing community members in CoE are also the least open to debate, conflict, or opposing ideas of any kind, even when it's unrelated to CoE. I've also seen a kind of "herd mentality" where when, if one is contradicted, several of the others rush in defense of them to shout down the person questioning something.
That probably sounds harsh, and by and large the general community is mostly open to discussion, but these kinds of qualities in a vocal minority so invested in a game are dangerous, as Revival is now seeing.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
Chronicles of Elyria will have huge problems building the game they have promised and if they don't start cutting down on their promises its never going to be launched. They have far too many complex designs for things that mostly work in the background which is a huge waste of game development resources.
I'm almost certain that CoE will be in development in 2020 and still be far away from an official release.
I, for one, won't miss this.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Azaron, thank you for the condolences. I was a huge fan of Revival because I have been a huge fan of Neverwinter Nights multiplayer persistent worlds for more than ten years. For me multiplayer persistent worlds of NWN 1 and NWN 2 with dungeon master client/toolset capabilities built into the core of the games and immersed tight-knit communities have always been more interesting than commercial MMORPGs. In Revival I saw an attempt to create a game that takes the concept of NWN to a next evolution step. I had been sceptical about the concept like many other people coming from NWN community, until Revival developers explained in detail how some automated virtual dungeon master systems would greatly facilitate the work of human dungeon masters. I would have been very happy if Illfonic had delivered a basic small MMORPG with evolved DM systems as its new innovation. Since Bioware had succeeded in developing DM client systems and integrating them into multiplayer persistent world environment, I thought it was finally realistic to expect evolution in that direction 14 years after the release of NWN 1.
* more info, screenshots and videos here
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it's theory's(pipedreams) like these that don't secure funding. if you want to make this great supposed game, make it with your team lol. how are they going to work 60hrs a week on a project for free. they have expenses at home as well. Game would take 15yrs to finish and would be so behind all the other games. you should "vote" with your cash if you want to steer this gaming industry anywhere different. I'd like to see you take your 2,000,000 dollars you have earned over the course of life and through it away.
The problem is not Voting with your Wallet like I do by not spending money on WOW anymore because I have hated it since WOTLK. So I dont pay for it. But I do not way hate I paid for WOW during TBC and never seen Sunwell, content needed to be LFR like because I never got to Sunwell. That's entitlement, if you dont like it don't pay for it. I was happy with TBC Content though I did no more than ZA and a little SCC.
Networking experts,well they simply need to hire them.I think in reality,they had little money and likely had some employees promise to work for free with some kind of future kickback based on promises of making a lot of money through sales.They see Chris Roberts pulling in a 100 million,they figured,if we get even 10 million we are set except not everyone is a good used car salesmen,apparently CR is.
So when they lost those employees they had hoped would work for free for a year or two they had no money to replace them,this is what i feel went down.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I have seen a lot of titles making similar bold promises on a limited time scale so when I read on the scope for CoE red flags are showing immediately. These sort of indie titles have shown up here for years, games like origins of malu, trials of ascension, citadel of sorcery, repopulation, otherland and divergence online. People speak about how promising they are but they never gets fully released.
Even games with smaller scope and developers that are far more experienced have problems finishing on time, just look at shroud of the avatar and camelot unchained that struggle on wrapping things up. Elite dangerous is somewhat unique in getting things done, but that's because Braben decided to limit the scope and do multiple releases instead.
What chronicles of elyria have now is a developer that wants to make everything inside his game which is why so many titles just never gets finished. What they need more than anything else is a project manager with the experience to know what should be kept and what should be cut from the game. That's the only way for this game to release in 2017.
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
* more info, screenshots and videos here
So.... Reality is going to set in before people pledge their money. It'll be clear what the game offers at what stretch goal mark when the KS comes up.
Why did they cancel Revival? Because what they had planned turned out to be a lot more expensive than they expected. I've backed a lot of kickstarter campaigns for video games and requiring a more money and time is a common thing. So i expect that to be the case for CoE too.
AAA companies won't make games like Revival or CoE. It's to much of a risk. They spend most of their money on voice acting and marketing.
If you want a game like Revial or CoE, that tries something new, then you have to support indie devs. But only spend money on them, you won't regret losing when they can't deliver.
Cost may be more in the neighborhood of 50 to 100 million which most MMO are currently costing and why they aren't being developed.
A single player game or maybe some network coop but MMO? Nope not going to happen on 900K.
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
Can you list out what thoses costs go towards?
Also which MMOs are costing that much with a team of 15 working on it. (specifically team of 15 or less)
edit: bold statements like this without any supportive argument around it do nothing for a discussion. When people make claims of things without justifying their viewpoint...
Finite Resources, WYSIWYG looting to player created and maintained maps and a deep modular crafting system. So much more that hasn't been said, ask questions! Post your thoughts! Spread the word of COE!
If you haven't yet, register with my referrer code on the official website: B0E240
The closest we seem to getting that would be Shards Online (http://shardsonline.com/). I'm not quite sure how expansive the storytelling features on that game will be, but having a "shard" to build your own world and community on sounds like the next best thing to the NWN experience as far as MMOs go.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
You are right about the incompatibility of average mainstream MMORPG players with immersive persistent RP worlds. Daily gameplay routines like grinding for experience points and items may be same as in an average MMORPG but involvement of dungeon masters and the specifics of player community make it a very different experience when social interaction gameplay with DM involvement takes place.
I've been aware of Shards Online for a while and noticed it is trying to introduce some elements of NWN. I'll have a closer look when it is ready. My first impression was that it is a light game compared with modern NWN 2 servers. Nowadays NWN 2 has great graphics. Some level designers have imported stuff from modern games like Skyrim and some PW developers have made cool innovative systems and features. However, I won't dismiss Shards Online because it might have some other redeeming qualities to compensate for certain disadvantages or inferior properties.
* more info, screenshots and videos here