I think everyone should just ignore Nari no matter what he says, he obviously gets a rise out of this, so just don't respond to anything he says. He's just not worth it.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Our hope is left on some avid gamer who will one day inherit 500+ million that he would gladly spend it with joy building his game he would like to play before he dies (knowing what else is out there). Life is short and goes by quickly...If I had such wealth the only addition I would add to my life is some female to impregnate and give back a comfortable, stress free life to some very lucky children who will come in this world.
Heh, I wouldn't even need more than 50 mil. I would set aside 10 mil, which would be more than enough for the rest of my life as well of my children. With 40 mil I would be making such amazing MMO and the fact is I would spend $0.00 on advertising, cuz I won't be concerned about how many boxes it sells on start or other crap.
Then go play those games and stop bashing MMO's. Everyone gets you think MMO's aren't viable, yet WOW, EVE, GW2, and others still survive, and there are tons of players on this forum that favor this type of game style.
who is bashing MMOs? I am not bashing The Division. In fact, didn't i say i like it? And who says I am not playing these games that I openly stated that i like? i don't commit all my leisure on one activity though. Is there a problem if I enjoy playing Division, and also discussion on this forum? They are not mutually exclusive, right?
I am not bashing World of Tanks though I don't play it.
And why do you even worry about if some on an internet forum think MMOs are viable or not? What you should worry about, if you like the old traditional MMO, is whether devs think that they are viable. Certainly whatever i said here have zero impact on devs.
And don't you think it is fair game to discuss our opinions about MMOs? This is not China. We do not have to praise everything, or agree with the majority on every single thing.
I think there are so many different segments of the mmo population that it doesn't really tell the whole story.
I don't buy that mmo players are going to mobas and games like destiny. I do believe there are players who played mmo's that have gone there but those players who were primarily looking for "a world" aren't necessarily going to move on to something like the division or a moba.
I buy it.
I buy that a lot of the rather casual base of the MMORPG Genre is moving form PC Gaming to Consoles, as well, which hurts the genre as developers simply aren't thinking of moving there in most cases.
The beauty of consoles is that they make almost any game feel like an MMORPG. You can be playing The Witcher III and still have a social experience on them with party chat, etc.
They are marginalizing MMORPGs as the premier social gaming experience.
The reason why a lot of people played MMORPGs is for the social experience. They don't need this "type" of game for that anymore.
Also, I think the trend towards competitiveness has really propped up ARPGs and MOBAs in comparison to MMORPGs, and it's why games like Destiny were such successes.
MMO are dying because 5% of people have nothing better to do, 95% of the player base doesn't want to grind out gear and spend money in the cash shop.
Make a pure casual no gear grind all purpose driven mmorpg and casuals will play, make 2 of them and casuals will play both of them, make 3 of them and casuals will play them all.
Think about this too - in the area I live in, 10 golf courses have shutdown in the past couple of years, people just do not have the money to blow on some of these things like they did in the mid 90's through 2008 when mmo sprouted and took off.
Casuals won't be able to afford computers powerful enough to play most of them. The MMORPG dev are now chasing specs which is helping to disenfranchise a rather hefty potential player base.
It's why a lot of games got huge box sales but never saw a good retention past the first few months over the years. People installed them, couldn't run them well, canceled and uninstalled never to look back.
By the time most casuals upgrade their computer (unless the game drops at an opportune time in the upgrade cycle for them), the game is old. Old games are not that attractive to MMORPG players, hence all the "Is it worth it to get into <random 2-3+ y/o game>?" posts on forums.
How many people do you think couldn't run EQ2, Vanguard, Age of Conan, etc. on release went back 2 years later after a PC upgrade, picked it up, and stuck with it?
MMORPGs are ALL about getting the biggest initial subscriber/player base, which helps sell the game to more people, and allows the developer to power through the eventual tapering off of players all games experience via the sheer size of their player populations (i.e. WoW being a great example).
I have alot of gamer friends and they all used to play mmo's. Heck we used to have guilds in many mmo's at once. Now they are into mobile games or single player games. They say they are just tired of playing online with people and having to pay a sub. I guess you could call it burnout.
Because most of the games we call MMOs don't have mechanics that support that massively part, the first M. They might be open world, but that's where the massively ends.
Talking about games where thousands of players exist simultaneously in a single instance and mechanics related to such games.
A glorified single player game that tries to pass itself off as an MMO will fail.
Really? Didn't The Division or The Destiny try to pass themselves off as MMOs?
Didn't both make tons of money?
1. Both are MMO's.
2. MMO's are not dying by any metric you choose to measure them.
3. I used to take you somewhat seriously when you posted these topics now I see you for what you really are. Not even a troll, just a high school drama queen that does/say's asinine things simply to garner attention. I am not sure what leisure activities you choose to pursue besides creating drama on game discussion boards, but perhaps you take a break from this and come back when you get your head together.
Seriously, your dogma against MMO games is wearing less then thin and I would not be surprised if people just start instantly reporting your posts in and effort to shut you up. I have said ti before and I say it again now; we get it you wish doom and gloom on the MMORPG genre of gaming, I personally think once again you take this stance not out of any real perceived decline in games but in a effort to be outside the accepted norm in order to get attention.
as I said in 2 above, use whatever data you want to determine if games in general are dying in about 30 seconds you will find you are wrong.
So, Drama Queen, just stop or at least change material.
I feel like I should not have to say this to an adult.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
A glorified single player game that tries to pass itself off as an MMO will fail.
Really? Didn't The Division or The Destiny try to pass themselves off as MMOs?
Didn't both make tons of money?
1. Both are MMO's.
2. MMO's are not dying by any metric you choose to measure them.
3. I used to take you somewhat seriously when you posted these topics now I see you for what you really are. Not even a troll, just a high school drama queen that does/say's asinine things simply to garner attention. I am not sure what leisure activities you choose to pursue besides creating drama on game discussion boards, but perhaps you take a break from this and come back when you get your head together.
Seriously, your dogma against MMO games is wearing less then thin and I would not be surprised if people just start instantly reporting your posts in and effort to shut you up. I have said ti before and I say it again now; we get it you wish doom and gloom on the MMORPG genre of gaming, I personally think once again you take this stance not out of any real perceived decline in games but in a effort to be outside the accepted norm in order to get attention.
as I said in 2 above, use whatever data you want to determine if games in general are dying in about 30 seconds you will find you are wrong.
So, Drama Queen, just stop or at least change material.
I feel like I should not have to say this to an adult.
LOL Drama Queen!!! This whole website is made up of DRAMA QUEENS!!!! And...for the record, he is just speaking his mind, unlike some people, who for some reason just because they don't AGREE with him, starts drama with him. Hypocrisy at it's finest.
I have alot of gamer friends and they all used to play mmo's. Heck we used to have guilds in many mmo's at once. Now they are into mobile games or single player games. They say they are just tired of playing online with people and having to pay a sub. I guess you could call it burnout.
Or that they find better games. And don't forget convenience. Why do I have to waste my time organizing 10 player raid, when i can click a button and have fun (either with or without others)?
LOL Drama Queen!!! This whole website is made up of DRAMA QUEENS!!!! And...for the record, he is just speaking his mind, unlike some people, who for some reason just because they don't AGREE with him, starts drama with him. Hypocrisy at it's finest.
Clearly I am a "Prima Donna" and not a mere drama queen.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
LOL Drama Queen!!! This whole website is made up of DRAMA QUEENS!!!! And...for the record, he is just speaking his mind, unlike some people, who for some reason just because they don't AGREE with him, starts drama with him. Hypocrisy at it's finest.
Clearly I am a "Prima Donna" and not a mere drama queen.
MMOs are definitely not dying, but its safe to say that many developers have lost sight of the reasons that players want to play.. I've said it before, and it bears repeating.. As long as mankind exists, it will continue to seek out the entertainment factor and thrill of games.. Its an idea instilled in us at the earliest stages of life and probably started with peek-aboo or hide-and-seek.. It evolved to candyland, life, monopoly, and clue.. Evolved further to pong, pacman, halo, and then MMOs.. Its an evolution that will continue, because that's what it does.. Until the day arrives where a person is standing on a Holodeck complaining about this being the 43rd orc invasion they've had to fend off this month.. and even then we'll find a new way to play..
In the meantime.. I'll keep playing games and finish up going back to school to get my own made..
..because we're gamers, damn it!! - William Massachusetts (Log Horizon)
MMOs are definitely not dying, but its safe to say that many developers have lost sight of the reasons that players want to play..
Lost sight or going with the times? I mean, does your father or grandfather enjoy the same things as you? Do they sometimes reiterate just like most do on this website, "Back in the day, etc etc"? You either get with the times or go to MMORPG.com and flex your muscles about how it was so awesome back in the day.
I think everyone should just ignore Nari no matter what he says, he obviously gets a rise out of this, so just don't respond to anything he says. He's just not worth it.
Are you suggesting we all put him on our ignore list? Sounds like an interesting experiment.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
LOL Drama Queen!!! This whole website is made up of DRAMA QUEENS!!!! And...for the record, he is just speaking his mind, unlike some people, who for some reason just because they don't AGREE with him, starts drama with him. Hypocrisy at it's finest.
Clearly I am a "Prima Donna" and not a mere drama queen.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Well, I think a lot of us have been burned one too many times. I'm sick and tired of dropping money on games that are ghost towns within six months, go FTP, and turn into cash shop crap. I'd rather wait and see.
I'm sure a game like BDO is probably decent, but I'll come back in a year and if it's still going strong, I'll pony up the cash and check it out. I will never buy an MMO at release again. Never.
If anything the MMO market is actually stronger than ever, less new titles mean current titles have a much better life span.
Even old games like ffxi (14 years old), eve (13 years old), wow (12 years old), lineage 1 (19 years old) are still going strong and getting updates. Almost no MMO dies, they just evolve.
Well, I think a lot of us have been burned one too many times. I'm sick and tired of dropping money on games that are ghost towns within six months, go FTP, and turn into cash shop crap. I'd rather wait and see.
I'm sure a game like BDO is probably decent, but I'll come back in a year and if it's still going strong, I'll pony up the cash and check it out. I will never buy an MMO at release again. Never.
Now that new mmo titles have ceased completely this won't happen.
Im sure its because players aren't as dumb as the developers are hoping. To many games share the same content making it just a rehash of the same thing.
Take most 2nd run games, they are not as good as the first for instance, manufacturers cut out allot of content that makes the first ones so good. Even doing little things like making font type so small you cant read the back story content, with no option to set the fonts. Even in CC mode the font will be smaller making it hard to tell whats going on with out sound on. The worlds are more closed off and the skill trees dry up.
Then Developers are forced now to use companys that care very little for its player communitys. Fallout4 forces you to use steam, the ending sucked big time, totally ruined the game for me, besthesda has an F rating from the BBB, they came out with there own MMORPG game Elder scroles (love the franchise) wont play it though. Steam/Valve who have an F ratting from the BBB with over 700 ignored customer complaints. but responsible companys litle Swtor and WoW, EQ have an A - A+ with more complaints, WoW has over 1200 complaints not one ignored. Steam is a monopoly, we have no were else to go for gaming content for PC players.
They dont care about us any more is the problem and players realize it. The only way they will learn is with your wallet, not supporting socially irresponsible and poorly crafted games and making a noise when you do.
It's not all about convenience. I remember what it took to cross Antonica in Everquest. I'd have to gear up on food, water, arrows, get a SOW spell (Spirit of Wolf for fast movement) cast on me, and in some cases pair up with someone for mutual protection. The journey took me the better part of the hour, and was harrowing at times. And I loved it.
Then, one expansion, they brought in the teleporting stones, where you would just click and port to any major city you wanted to. And I hated it. My heart sank that day and I knew the best of EQ was behind it.
So, sometimes, the challenge is the thrill. Gaming is not just hopping about and spamming attacks.
yeh .. "you" love it. And it would be super boring to me to gear up on food, water and arrows .. and these things are just annoying without being challenging. (Don't tell me buying food at a vendor is "challenging").
I would much rather play a challenging greater rift in D3 (and don't tell me high Grift are not challenging) than wasting my time buying food (i can do that in real life, you know).
People don't like cash shops. It ruins the gaming experience everytime you feel the need to pay hundreds/thousands on a monthly basis to stay competitive (this is why I just quit Black Desert Online).
is that the reason why LoL is now making more money than wow? wait ....
Comments
Heh, I wouldn't even need more than 50 mil. I would set aside 10 mil, which would be more than enough for the rest of my life as well of my children. With 40 mil I would be making such amazing MMO and the fact is I would spend $0.00 on advertising, cuz I won't be concerned about how many boxes it sells on start or other crap.
I am not bashing World of Tanks though I don't play it.
And why do you even worry about if some on an internet forum think MMOs are viable or not? What you should worry about, if you like the old traditional MMO, is whether devs think that they are viable. Certainly whatever i said here have zero impact on devs.
And don't you think it is fair game to discuss our opinions about MMOs? This is not China. We do not have to praise everything, or agree with the majority on every single thing.
I buy that a lot of the rather casual base of the MMORPG Genre is moving form PC Gaming to Consoles, as well, which hurts the genre as developers simply aren't thinking of moving there in most cases.
The beauty of consoles is that they make almost any game feel like an MMORPG. You can be playing The Witcher III and still have a social experience on them with party chat, etc.
They are marginalizing MMORPGs as the premier social gaming experience.
The reason why a lot of people played MMORPGs is for the social experience. They don't need this "type" of game for that anymore.
Also, I think the trend towards competitiveness has really propped up ARPGs and MOBAs in comparison to MMORPGs, and it's why games like Destiny were such successes.
Casuals won't be able to afford computers powerful enough to play most of them. The MMORPG dev are now chasing specs which is helping to disenfranchise a rather hefty potential player base.
It's why a lot of games got huge box sales but never saw a good retention past the first few months over the years. People installed them, couldn't run them well, canceled and uninstalled never to look back.
By the time most casuals upgrade their computer (unless the game drops at an opportune time in the upgrade cycle for them), the game is old. Old games are not that attractive to MMORPG players, hence all the "Is it worth it to get into <random 2-3+ y/o game>?" posts on forums.
How many people do you think couldn't run EQ2, Vanguard, Age of Conan, etc. on release went back 2 years later after a PC upgrade, picked it up, and stuck with it?
MMORPGs are ALL about getting the biggest initial subscriber/player base, which helps sell the game to more people, and allows the developer to power through the eventual tapering off of players all games experience via the sheer size of their player populations (i.e. WoW being a great example).
2. MMO's are not dying by any metric you choose to measure them.
3. I used to take you somewhat seriously when you posted these topics now I see you for what you really are. Not even a troll, just a high school drama queen that does/say's asinine things simply to garner attention. I am not sure what leisure activities you choose to pursue besides creating drama on game discussion boards, but perhaps you take a break from this and come back when you get your head together.
Seriously, your dogma against MMO games is wearing less then thin and I would not be surprised if people just start instantly reporting your posts in and effort to shut you up. I have said ti before and I say it again now; we get it you wish doom and gloom on the MMORPG genre of gaming, I personally think once again you take this stance not out of any real perceived decline in games but in a effort to be outside the accepted norm in order to get attention.
as I said in 2 above, use whatever data you want to determine if games in general are dying in about 30 seconds you will find you are wrong.
So, Drama Queen, just stop or at least change material.
I feel like I should not have to say this to an adult.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
And...for the record, he is just speaking his mind, unlike some people, who for some reason just because they don't AGREE with him, starts drama with him. Hypocrisy at it's finest.
Or that they find better games. And don't forget convenience. Why do I have to waste my time organizing 10 player raid, when i can click a button and have fun (either with or without others)?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
In the meantime.. I'll keep playing games and finish up going back to school to get my own made..
..because we're gamers, damn it!! - William Massachusetts (Log Horizon)
You either get with the times or go to MMORPG.com and flex your muscles about how it was so awesome back in the day.
Are you suggesting we all put him on our ignore list? Sounds like an interesting experiment.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
I am an a$$hole or forum jerk if you prefer.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
I'm sure a game like BDO is probably decent, but I'll come back in a year and if it's still going strong, I'll pony up the cash and check it out. I will never buy an MMO at release again. Never.
~~ postlarval ~~
Even old games like ffxi (14 years old), eve (13 years old), wow (12 years old), lineage 1 (19 years old) are still going strong and getting updates. Almost no MMO dies, they just evolve.
Take most 2nd run games, they are not as good as the first for instance, manufacturers cut out allot of content that makes the first ones so good. Even doing little things like making font type so small you cant read the back story content, with no option to set the fonts. Even in CC mode the font will be smaller making it hard to tell whats going on with out sound on. The worlds are more closed off and the skill trees dry up.
Then Developers are forced now to use companys that care very little for its player communitys. Fallout4 forces you to use steam, the ending sucked big time, totally ruined the game for me, besthesda has an F rating from the BBB, they came out with there own MMORPG game Elder scroles (love the franchise) wont play it though. Steam/Valve who have an F ratting from the BBB with over 700 ignored customer complaints. but responsible companys litle Swtor and WoW, EQ have an A - A+ with more complaints, WoW has over 1200 complaints not one ignored. Steam is a monopoly, we have no were else to go for gaming content for PC players.
They dont care about us any more is the problem and players realize it. The only way they will learn is with your wallet, not supporting socially irresponsible and poorly crafted games and making a noise when you do.
all hail Zero Punctuation!
I would much rather play a challenging greater rift in D3 (and don't tell me high Grift are not challenging) than wasting my time buying food (i can do that in real life, you know).
is that the reason why LoL is now making more money than wow? wait ....