Dullahan said: Yes, they should put there money where their mouth is, or shut up and go play whatever korean mmo got ported over this month or the next WoW expansion.
That's not really a message you want to put out there - help pay for development costs or go away.
Personally I am more than a little put out with the number of posts being made here now to give money, give money, give money. And now the message is, if you don't give money go away?
You are helping no one with that. I'll give money when and if I damn well please, and I am under no obligation to do so.
That isn't what I said though. (Edit) In fact, I just reread everything to see if it could even loosely be interpreted as such, and it could not - Learn to read. I was speaking very much in general of all the people who have for many years now claimed they want a "real" MMORPG again, and who are "so tired of MMOs these days." That has been thrown around here every day for a decade now tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of times. THOSE are the people who need to step up and help make such games (again, since you missed it the first 2 times, NOT necessarily Pantheon) a reality, or shut up and be happy with the gruel they've been served.
Did you even ever consider that those people you are talking about are not looking to go backwards in the mmo world. Some of us don't want 1999 back. Some of us want something new. Not the same rehash and definitely not even older rehashes. They may complain about current mmos, but maybe just maybe they want something completely new.
Given the alpha gameplay on the twitch stream we were shown and what the team has said - I would say we are most likely going to get a mix of new and old.
I have yet to see anything in this project I would consider "new". From my understanding it's EQ with graphics upgrade with a twist of some current mmo ideas. That's perfectly fine if that's what you're looking for. Personally, I want to see the next level of mmos. Going backwards isn't always a good idea.
Well it's not going to be for you to uh en, they have said they don't intend to please everyone.
This mmo will have a niche following and will do just fine with the people who want the old with a bit of the new.
Plenty of other mmo out there, me I'm looking forward to a PVE centrened mmo.
In short, details... which in the case of MMOs pretty much means beta, or at least late alpha.
I like the philosophy of the game, but philosophy is generally quite hard to turn into a solid game, so without some concrete details on exactly how a lot of things are going to work, I'm staying on the 'non-backer' side of the fence.
I fear there may be less of a market for a more challenging game than I would like though. For example, I think wildstar actually got the leveling right when it first came out, there was easy level appropriate content where you'd get less xp but you didn't have to be good to clear it and there was the ability to take on quests far above your level for much larger xp rewards. I really enjoyed wildstars leveling purely because I could choose to stay doing quests that were challenging the whole way and level at the same rate or even slightly faster than those who did the easy stuff.
NCSoft decided to kill that though because of wildstars lack of success, likely so players didn't stray into hard quests by mistake. In today's wildstar, you can no longer get quests way higher than your level. They actually force you to play the easy stuff now. I'm not sure if that speaks to what people are actually feeling about challenging game play or just what publishers/devs believe about what people are thinking.
I see the comparison of Pantheon to Wildstar fairly regularly here, but I don't think its an accurate comparison.
Wildstar was statedly designed for those who wanted another experience akin to vanilla WoW. However, the end result was a game that mostly appealed to that hardcore 10%, and had little to offer the average player. I think they totally missed the mark assuming that the exclusivity offered at endgame was what people wanted all the way through.
I believe Pantheon will be more akin to EQ and Vanguard in that they will be mostly designed for group content and the journey, offering content that becomes progressively harder and more demanding of your time. It will still dwell in the hardcore side of the spectrum, but a much larger range in that spectrum.
That difference is key. It means a game that will appeal to the average player who wants more challenge and less hand holding and the hardcore player alike.
totally would dig it if they came out with games within the game... its something to offer that nobody else does!
I miss diplomacy... when it first came out I remember people talked about how it unlocked faction and special quests for certain items, etc. turned out not to be true but that would have been awesome!!
NEWS FLASH!"A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished!https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA
I understand what you're saying and if it applies to you then I hope this game pans out and is everything you hope it is. Myself, I don't mind the newer mmos. I think they have evolved in a lot of ways over the years that a lot of vets (bitter ones usually) will never give any credit for. Just like real life evolution, sometimes it takes a long time.
Maybe 10 years of mistakes and new ideas were just trials to get to that new idea. Maybe the next "great" original mmo will be something that takes tech and ideas from a single player game. Time will tell I suppose. I just really don't see this mmo(Path) doing anything to help the genre move forward. The good news is that there is room for lots of mmos. So this one (if it launches) will grab a small niche group and hopefully that will sustain it.
I think you summed up what Pantheon place in MMOs mostly well (or at least how I envision it). Pantheon was not looking to re-invent the wheel - I have enjoyed every new MMO too but I am looking forward to Pantheon because it is bringing back the most important element that the newer MMO's have forgotten and that is community. In that way I feel Pantheon will push the genre forward.
While most of my questions are still not officially answered, hearing that the opinions of a few others in this thread are so close to my own has tipped the scale.
I just pledged. Knight level.
My name over there is Philo. Hopefully I will be able to talk to some of you on the Pantheon forum. Now the long wait really begins.
Have fun and thanks again for all of the responses.
nothing. Paying money today for something who knows when is a bad deal. But for those that do I would like to let you know of this ocean front property in arizona i wish to sell you....
I understand people's reluctance to pledge. It might be 100$ down the drain. I accept that.
From my point of view, there have been 3 new games I have been interested in playing in about the last 10 years...SWToR, EQNext and Pantheon.
At this point I only have one basket to put my eggs in so I did.
If this game doesn't work out, other games that I want to play in the future will be few and far between. I will end up continuing to play older/outdated games. It is the state of the current MMO market...and the curse of having played MMORPGs heavily in the early years that influences my thought process.
What would it take to pledge? a 5% annual return on investment. wait...what? pledge=donate why would I donate on a chance i'll get a game? pass!
Because some of us would rather spend money to have a chance at a game we want to play rather than wasting it on the current worthless entries in the genre.
I will not pledge any money due to a couple of items. One Brad McQuaid's drug issues and using company money to buy himself drugs. Past mishandling of money issues and basically stealing $45k from the initial kickstarter for his own use.
I will not trust a druggy who is stealing money from his own company.
I will not pledge any money due to a couple of items. One Brad McQuaid's drug issues and using company money to buy himself drugs. Past mishandling of money issues and basically stealing $45k from the initial kickstarter for his own use.
I will not trust a druggy who is stealing money from his own company.
I am with this guy.
And add to the fact that I will not take part in any of this crowdfunding nonsense in regards to MMOs.
KS/Crowdfunding can work fine on SPG and other games, but there has only been a long list of failures in regards to MMO/MMORPGs.
So forget it.
What is there that could make me pledge to this thing?
Considering crowdfunding mmos is still relatively new, and the fact that there are probably half a dozen in development for every one that failed, I'd say the evidence that its been a positive thing for the genre is undeniable.
Yes, some will not succeed but then again, how many mainstream MMOs have lived up to their hype. I have spent exponentially more cash on MMOs I played for less than a month before uninstalling than I have on the handful of indie games I've helped crowdfund.
I will not pledge any money due to a couple of items. One Brad McQuaid's drug issues and using company money to buy himself drugs. Past mishandling of money issues and basically stealing $45k from the initial kickstarter for his own use.
I will not trust a druggy who is stealing money from his own company.
That had me worried too, however I read Brad no longer has his hands directly on the funds. Dont ask me where so feel free to take it with a grain of salt. Probably has something to do with them having an "angel investor." Its still not exactly an overall positive but less of a reason not to crowdfund. LegotheHutt said:
I just pledged. Knight level.
Haha, good to hear. Youre definitely braver than me on this one.
I can't find the exact posts at the moment, but there was discussion on the official site that Brad was no longer in charge of the financials and was instead moved to the Chief Creative Officer. Pantheon/VRI has both a CEO/CFO who were added to be in charge of the money. And whatever you (not you specifically) may think about Brad, he's always been a great idea man. So, I think CCO is the best fit for him. I've linked the About Us page from the official forums for their current development team info.
Spent 150 on the Escape from Tarkov thing, and that was supposed to have an early alpha access in February.. still nothing. ^^ Probably try and pledge at least 100 before the summer for this though, not sure if i want a higher tier or if 100 is enough.
I can't rely on the market and VCs to provide me with the game that I want, so I understand that I will have to show the market what I want even if that means taking a small risk with a little bit of money.
I'm not the kind of person to cry about no games being out there for me and then refusing to support them when they are offered.
Note to self: next time you start a thread to see what might be holding back players from otherwise helping fund a game they want to see released... avoid 5+ pages of "clever' condescending answers by specifying those who would never fund any game need not post.
Comments
I like the philosophy of the game, but philosophy is generally quite hard to turn into a solid game, so without some concrete details on exactly how a lot of things are going to work, I'm staying on the 'non-backer' side of the fence.
Wildstar was statedly designed for those who wanted another experience akin to vanilla WoW. However, the end result was a game that mostly appealed to that hardcore 10%, and had little to offer the average player. I think they totally missed the mark assuming that the exclusivity offered at endgame was what people wanted all the way through.
I believe Pantheon will be more akin to EQ and Vanguard in that they will be mostly designed for group content and the journey, offering content that becomes progressively harder and more demanding of your time. It will still dwell in the hardcore side of the spectrum, but a much larger range in that spectrum.
That difference is key. It means a game that will appeal to the average player who wants more challenge and less hand holding and the hardcore player alike.
totally would dig it if they came out with games within the game... its something to offer that nobody else does!
I miss diplomacy... when it first came out I remember people talked about how it unlocked faction and special quests for certain items, etc. turned out not to be true but that would have been awesome!!
NEWS FLASH! "A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/ Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished! https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/ Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA
I just pledged. Knight level.
My name over there is Philo. Hopefully I will be able to talk to some of you on the Pantheon forum. Now the long wait really begins.
Have fun and thanks again for all of the responses.
What would it take to pledge? a 5% annual return on investment. wait...what? pledge=donate why would I donate on a chance i'll get a game? pass!
From my point of view, there have been 3 new games I have been interested in playing in about the last 10 years...SWToR, EQNext and Pantheon.
At this point I only have one basket to put my eggs in so I did.
If this game doesn't work out, other games that I want to play in the future will be few and far between. I will end up continuing to play older/outdated games. It is the state of the current MMO market...and the curse of having played MMORPGs heavily in the early years that influences my thought process.
I will not trust a druggy who is stealing money from his own company.
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2024: 47 years on the Net.
And add to the fact that I will not take part in any of this crowdfunding nonsense in regards to MMOs.
KS/Crowdfunding can work fine on SPG and other games, but there has only been a long list of failures in regards to MMO/MMORPGs.
So forget it.
What is there that could make me pledge to this thing?
Nothing at this point.
Yes, some will not succeed but then again, how many mainstream MMOs have lived up to their hype. I have spent exponentially more cash on MMOs I played for less than a month before uninstalling than I have on the handful of indie games I've helped crowdfund.
LegotheHutt said: Haha, good to hear. Youre definitely braver than me on this one.
I can't find the exact posts at the moment, but there was discussion on the official site that Brad was no longer in charge of the financials and was instead moved to the Chief Creative Officer. Pantheon/VRI has both a CEO/CFO who were added to be in charge of the money. And whatever you (not you specifically) may think about Brad, he's always been a great idea man. So, I think CCO is the best fit for him. I've linked the About Us page from the official forums for their current development team info.
http://www.pantheonmmo.com/about_us/the_team/
*Edit - Found the post discussing Tim Sullivan the CFO being the only one whose handling financials: linked below.
http://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/2380/nov-24th-interview-from-massively-op/view/post_id/32150
Redsalt... the other salt.
I'm not the kind of person to cry about no games being out there for me and then refusing to support them when they are offered.
I don't pay for promises, want me to pay for something? show me its good enough for it