Why is SWG allowed to operate?

laserit

I briefly thought and commented about this in a thread about Nostrlaius. I think this might make for an interesting discussion and debate of its own.


Look at Lucas Arts and Disney with the Star Wars IP

EA has running a little Star Wars MMORPG called SWTOR

Why doesn't Disney or Lucas Arts before them not bring the hammer down on SWG emu's?

Just maybe these guys don't mind their fans being able to enjoy something from earlier days. Maybe its a company showing a little goodwill to a few thousand fans who have probably spent a lot of money supporting the IP

So why don't they bring the hammer down?

Aren't they worried about a few thousand fans getting a little fun out of the IP for Free?

They have both made billions and billions off Star Wars

Aren't they worried about losing some dough?

Are these people now playing Star Wars galaxies on EMU's stealing from Disney? They do own the IP

Shouldn't Disney be protecting their Stockholders?

Are the players playing SWG thieves?

Discuss

tinuelle

The answer lies in 150.000 vs. A few thousands.

And of course when you need to be principal or not.

are they thieves? Mr. Laserit, you know well that we use the word pirates on the web. Free men who do as they will, without the care for rules put in place by a government/organization they dont support. So, AYE , they've pirates. Free men all of'em!!!!

laserit

tinuelle said:

The answer lies in 150.000 vs. A few thousands.

And of course when you need to be principal or not.

are they thieves? Mr. Laserit, you know well that we use the word pirates on the web. Free men who do as they will, without the care for rules put in place by a government/organization they dont support. So, AYE , they've pirates. Free men all of'em!!!!

Aye dare mate

It seems on these here boards that if you play on a vanilla WoW emu, you are not a pirate... but a thief

Cleffy

Technically its legal. If you bought a multiplayer game and the company that holds its rights no longer offers service for that game, you are legally allowed to use an emulator or the server engine to play it on a local network.

laserit

Cleffy said:

Technically its legal. If you bought a multiplayer game and the company that holds its rights no longer offers service for that game, you are legally allowed to use an emulator or the server engine to play it on a local network.

Technically?

Screw the game, you are violating someone's copyright of a legally owned IP. The Star Wars IP

tinuelle

laserit said:

Cleffy said:

Technically its legal. If you bought a multiplayer game and the company that holds its rights no longer offers service for that game, you are legally allowed to use an emulator or the server engine to play it on a local network.

Technically?

Screw the game, you are violating someone's copyright of a legally owned IP. The Star Wars IP

Argh Matey!

Awast, in a free world where man is free, everything Shall be free... Harr.... Harrr

Loke666

I don't think they bother because it doesn't actually loose them much money. A few thousand players do hardly steal many players from TOR. Some of them probabaly play TOR anyways and most wouldn't even if their SWG server shut down.

They could put their legal deparetment on it but it would probably cost them more money, and they might upset some fans who might buy EA games in the future.

I assume they have larger problems with Star wars copyright to bother with.

If 100K players suddenly started to play things would be different but now they have little to gain.

laserit

tinuelle said:

laserit said:

Cleffy said:

Technically its legal. If you bought a multiplayer game and the company that holds its rights no longer offers service for that game, you are legally allowed to use an emulator or the server engine to play it on a local network.

Technically?

Screw the game, you are violating someone's copyright of a legally owned IP. The Star Wars IP

Argh Matey!

Awast, in a free world where man is free, everything Shall be free... Harr.... Harrr

If you be wantin it for free... den you better be a swabbin da poop deck, lessen ya wanna be walkin da plank

harr de harr harr 

frostymug

If SWG still existed as a playable and payable game they might be more interested in the potential revenue loss.

If SWG emu servers had enough people that the potential losses outweighed the legal costs of pursuing a shutdown they might.

Between Verant, SOE, DBG, LucasArts, and Disney all being in the mix at one point or another, who's to say what exactly the licensing entailed and what carried forward? The devs who would care about the code are long removed now. If anyone is standing to lose anything it is EA. They paid to be awarded the license for SWTOR in the MMORPG field where SWG is a competitor. Disney probably does not care much at all seeing as the number is miniscule and the ill will they would get from a C&D would outweigh any gains they would realize.

Regardless, it won't bring Nostralius back. Blizzard did exactly what the law allows in regards to their IP and work. None of the players in this scenario have pursued the same course for reasons only they know.

laserit

Loke666 said:

I don't think they bother because it doesn't actually loose them much money. A few thousand players do hardly steal many players from TOR. Some of them probabaly play TOR anyways and most wouldn't even if their SWG server shut down.

They could put their legal deparetment on it but it would probably cost them more money, and they might upset some fans who might buy EA games in the future.

I assume they have larger problems with Star wars copyright to bother with.

If 100K players suddenly started to play things would be different but now they have little to gain.

Does that make it ok?

Couldn't it set a precedent if the copyright holder chooses to do nothing? 

Hulluck

Because Lucas Arts / SOE were asked at one point if I am not mistaken and said they had no problem with it. It's as simple as that. NGE and the relentless backlash that came from that probably had something to do with their position.

Wizardry

@op it is because you missed the news flash some where along time.

The law in some cases has determined that a developer does not hold the right to hold gamer's hostage by shutting down servers thereby making their purchased game obsolete and worth NOTHING.

No where in society are purchased goods considered 100% invaluable,that has AWLAYS been determined by people/consumers not by copyrights.

Imo copyright is of course a good idea and needed but also in some cases abused.Example Hasbro tries constantly to bend/twist copyright laws by trying to secure total rights to ideas that should NEVER be considered YOUR sole property. Ideassuch as "board game " or dice game or numbers game or a game that uses the Queen or King or anything along those lines,yet big powerful lawyers representing firms lieke Hasbro TRY to secure those rights.

H0urg1ass

Like I pointed out in the Vanilla WoW thread, if they're smart, then they're hosting it in a "Don't give a crap what your laws are" country.  A whole lotta eastern Europe and Russia could not give two squirts of orange Fanta what IP's that EA owns as long as you're renting their server space.

East Asia and China could care even less, but then again, most of those countries have their internet locked down tighter than a submarine hatch.

frostymug

As far as the IP goes, this could have something to do with it...

10. Beware of what could happen to the license.

"If you enter into a paid-up license (when the licensee paid a one-time lump sum payment in lieu of future royalties) beware of assignment right: in the event a smaller licensee is acquired in the future by a larger company, if the license is assignable, the larger company may get a license without having to pay a dime to the patent owner. Make sure that in the event of licensee's insolvency or filing for bankruptcy, the license terminates automatically. If it doesn't, the license may be sold with other assets to a new buyer who will get the license without having to pay the IP owner."
- Alex Poltorak, founder, chairman and CEO of General Patent Corporation, co-author,The Essentials of Intellectual Property

source: http://www.inc.com/guides/2010/11/10-tips-for-licensing-intellectual-property.html

In a reverse of the example above, the people who might have a case either don't care or are removed from the equation. Disney and EA might be frothing at the mouth to get it shut down, but have no recourse.

laserit

This is an interesting piece of information that may hold the key

http://fairuse.stanford.edu/overview/fair-use/disagreements-over-fair-use-when-are-you-likely-to-get-sued/

tawess

laserit said:

Does that make it ok?

Couldn't it set a precedent if the copyright holder chooses to do nothing? 

Not really. 

for that to happen they first need to have it taken to court. 

frostymug

laserit said:

This is an interesting piece of information that may hold the key

http://fairuse.stanford.edu/overview/fair-use/disagreements-over-fair-use-when-are-you-likely-to-get-sued/

It would definitely come into play if Nostralius and Blizzard went to the courtroom and Blizzard would win easily. As far as SWG goes it would mostly depend on which way the courtroom it was heard in leans.

cronius77

its illegal and most being honest with admit that look at the warhammer private server. They will tell you what they are doing isnt sanctioned or legal by any means but they do not charge donation fees or make a dime of money and try to remain small so GW and EA do not crash a lawsuit on their heads. Your stealing anyway you try it due to copywrite laws. Is it moral ? I guess thats what your ethics are, my personal beliefs is if a game shuts down it should become abandonware and anyone who legally owned a copy should be able to run their own servers just like if you owned a disc game that wasnt online. Is that the law nope but then again I think most people here have skirted the law and rules before and followed instead what they think is ethical. I personally wish a class action suit would happen and I do not even play nostrius at all , Id just like to see a good legal battle over internet laws and these TOS's that I think are one sided and do not in any way protect the people just the corporations. 

H0urg1ass

laserit said:

Loke666 said:

I don't think they bother because it doesn't actually loose them much money. A few thousand players do hardly steal many players from TOR. Some of them probabaly play TOR anyways and most wouldn't even if their SWG server shut down.

They could put their legal deparetment on it but it would probably cost them more money, and they might upset some fans who might buy EA games in the future.

I assume they have larger problems with Star wars copyright to bother with.

If 100K players suddenly started to play things would be different but now they have little to gain.

Does that make it ok?

Couldn't it set a precedent if the copyright holder chooses to do nothing? 

Laws are only laws if they're being enforced.  It would surprise you to find out that in my home state there is a law stating that if you are operating a motor vehicle, then you are required to have a rider ahead of your vehicle on a horse announcing that your motor vehicle is approaching.  It's still on the books, it's still legal and just like SWGemu, no one gives a shit.

We have immigration laws in this country, and yet illegal immigrants are given jobs and drivers licenses in California with no repercussions from the federal government.

Laws are just paper without an attending and active punishment.

laserit

frostymug said:

laserit said:

This is an interesting piece of information that may hold the key

http://fairuse.stanford.edu/overview/fair-use/disagreements-over-fair-use-when-are-you-likely-to-get-sued/

It would definitely come into play if Nostralius and Blizzard went to the courtroom and Blizzard would win easily. As far as SWG goes it would mostly depend on which way the courtroom it was heard in leans.

I don't know about easily, it really depends on the quality of each side's lawyers. Blizzard would have to prove that Nostralius was causing Blizzard to lose money. 

Definitely an argument there. I don't know how similar copyright law is in France.

According to the document "Fair Use" is also a long way from being fully defined. 

Many precedents are yet to be set.

interesting stuff.

tawess

As other have mentioned i am not to bothered with "dead" games having servers put up for them or made playable. By the same token once WoW is dead i will not care much for private servers. It is not any more legal to use the TM or anything covered by copyright but on the flip side nobody really hurt from it either. 

WoW is not a dead game... It is still being developed. People might not agree with the direction but by that token i should have the right to pirate any movie or music i want because i do not agree with the direction of hollywood or the music biz.... 

As for SWG emu... it is just a matter of time. As soon as it gets enough traction... *fingergun gesture* Dead. 

aRtFuLThinG

Probably because SWG is abandonware now and the LucasArts / SOE don't have the it in their plans, don't have the budget for it nor do they want to waste the resources in pursuing it.

It is of no benefit and many drawbacks for them to do so. In fact, it helps them keep the interests in the franchise broad and diverse.

ceratop001

Good thread laserit, and good question. Had me thinking about this one before I comment. Maybe and this is just a maybe, but I'm sure their aware of the emu's, perhaps their just studying what's going on before they make a legal move. Why they would be studying and watching brings about other questions I can't answer. Just a thought I had..

tawess

Also neither LucasArt nor SOE exist any more... The company owning Daybreak will not waste money on a suite and I am not even sure Disney is aware of SWGEmu. 

In fact if anyone would go after it, it would be EA as the current license holder. 

Dakeru

Hmm my private RO server is still online.
It has always been a gray zone about legality. We started with 4000 players now we have like 8 lol

Point is: Even after 10 years we are still online.
Just like with SWG it would be more of a hassle to squash little non profit servers.

Why bother?

frostymug

laserit said:

frostymug said:

laserit said:

This is an interesting piece of information that may hold the key

http://fairuse.stanford.edu/overview/fair-use/disagreements-over-fair-use-when-are-you-likely-to-get-sued/

It would definitely come into play if Nostralius and Blizzard went to the courtroom and Blizzard would win easily. As far as SWG goes it would mostly depend on which way the courtroom it was heard in leans.

I don't know about easily, it really depends on the quality of each side's lawyers. Blizzard would have to prove that Nostralius was causing Blizzard to lose money. 

Definitely an argument there. I don't know how similar copyright law is in France.

According to the document "Fair Use" is also a long way from being fully defined. 

If they chose arbitration it would be done in Los Angeles. If they chose to go to court it would be under the laws of the United States of America and the law of the state of Delaware. Delaware is a very corporate friendly haven. The only way around that would be if Nostalrius were the ones to file and even then it would likely be deferred to Delaware based on the TOS and the fact that France and the US are buddies and probably aren't going to risk any bad blood based on an emulated WoW server. 

The case would be easy because Nostalrius straight jacked Blizzard's work that they paid for. Fair use wouldn't even need to apply. If Fair Use was the defense, it would also be relatively easy to show that they are losing money from it. Seeing as their sub numbers dropped drastically in the same time frame that Nostalrius came into being. It's easy to construe that at least some of those 800,000 people would still pay and play on official servers if Nostalrius was not around.

Also, in the case of the game itself, if any technology or anything was licensed by Blizzard from another company then Blizzard is obligated to protect those licenses and there would likely be multiple plaintiffs in the case.

There's really not much ground for Nostalrius to stand on. This is why emulated servers pretty much only exist so long as they fly under the radar and are, almost without exception, shuttered as soon as the C&D arrives.