I haven't said it will definately work all I've said is I'm willing to give it a try. You on the other hand are trying to include your non existent knowledge into an argument you know nothing about.
Well I've skimmed through the comments and decided to sign up to mmorpg just so I can vote. I wasn't going to post but I feel I have to make one comment.
People are saying that a lot of kickstarter don't release what they promise. So I have to say, caspian has said on multiple occasions that coe is the type of game the devs have wanted to play themselves, therefore I can't imagine it changing alot from what has been announced
You are predicting the future as much as I do. The difference is that I am basing my opinion on the outcome of previous KS events while you are basing it on the promises of a man who wants to sell his idea.
It comes down to you signing up here to tell us that we are wrong and you are right.
That makes it open looting or you can say a modified 'first come first served'
So please tell me what is full loot pvp if it's not being able to loot those you have killed?
How about doing your own research and coming back with an informed answer?
At this point I can say "water is wet" and you'll waste everyone's bandwidth telling me I am wrong.
I know what it is.
I an asking your opinion on what you think it is? Your the one saying everyone else is wrong when they talk about it, therefore explain to everyone what in you obviously mighty opinion it is.
I haven't said it will definately work all I've said is I'm willing to give it a try. You on the other hand are trying to include your non existent knowledge into an argument you know nothing about.
Well I've skimmed through the comments and decided to sign up to mmorpg just so I can vote. I wasn't going to post but I feel I have to make one comment.
People are saying that a lot of kickstarter don't release what they promise. So I have to say, caspian has said on multiple occasions that coe is the type of game the devs have wanted to play themselves, therefore I can't imagine it changing alot from what has been announced
You are predicting the future as much as I do. The difference is that I am basing my opinion on the outcome of previous KS events while you are basing it on the promises of a man who wants to sell his idea.
It comes down to you signing up here to tell us that we are wrong and you are right.
Please tell me where I have said it will 100% be a success? If you actually read my last post you will see I said that I don't know that it will be a success just that I am willing to take the gamble.
You are still talking about the kickstarter too. Your original comment that I was quoting was you talking about the business plan in general and therefore my point still stands you can't comment as you don't know.
Please tell me where I have said it will 100% be a success? If you actually read my last post you will see I said that I don't know that it will be a success just that I am willing to take the gamble.
You are still talking about the kickstarter too. Your original comment that I was quoting was you talking about the business plan in general and therefore my point still stands you can't comment as you don't know.
For now.. the KS is the plan:
Finally, keep in mind that the Kickstarter's success determines not only whether or not people will get an opportunity to play the amazing game we're working on, but it also impacts the course of a dozen peoples' careers and families.
Please tell me where I have said it will 100% be a success? If you actually read my last post you will see I said that I don't know that it will be a success just that I am willing to take the gamble.
You are still talking about the kickstarter too. Your original comment that I was quoting was you talking about the business plan in general and therefore my point still stands you can't comment as you don't know.
For now.. the KS is the plan:
Finally, keep in mind that the Kickstarter's success determines not only whether or not people will get an opportunity to play the amazing game we're working on, but it also impacts the course of a dozen peoples' careers and families.
And I'm done arguing with a brick wall now.
Wow a constructive argument. So yes if that is their only plan then the kickstarter needs to work. But have you thought there may be contingency plans?
Now I'm not saying there is I am saying f here might be.
*see when your constructive we can discuss it properly*
Come on, people act like they've never been on this forum before. If one side is right the other will try to "reason" their way out of it trying to say that the other side either weren't paying attention to what was actually said or reading comprehensions failed them. I have so rarely seen anyone actually say I was straight up wrong and that you were right all along.
As for me, after the kickstarter stars I might put some dollars down on this (depending on what the actual kickstarter looks like, this one is useless right now for basing any decision on as it's just numbers people put out) but I do so because I like what the game is showing, the only other game I did this for was Dreamfall chapters which is already released.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
How about doing your own research and coming back with an informed answer?
At this point I can say "water is wet" and you'll waste everyone's bandwidth telling me I am wrong.
I know what it is.
I an asking your opinion on what you think it is? Your the one saying everyone else is wrong when they talk about it, therefore explain to everyone what in you obviously mighty opinion it is.
The game is a great idea,Kickstarters/crowd funding "games" are NOT a great idea. IMO if we need gamer's to start funding games,then i prefer to just see the games die. I have said it before,if game developers want money to design a game,then offer shares or something of equal value,NOTHING else will satisfy me.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
The game is a great idea,Kickstarters/crowd funding "games" are NOT a great idea. IMO if we need gamer's to start funding games,then i prefer to just see the games die. I have said it before,if game developers want money to design a game,then offer shares or something of equal value,NOTHING else will satisfy me.
Why should they?
Kickstarter is the golden goose that keeps on giving. Why not have the players pay for donate to the making of a game?
It is the welfare system at it's most capitalistic.
44.5 hours until we see if they li8sted to the criticism and changed their target goal and/or tiers!!!
Exciting times indeed!!
Actually they might have changed them before you even posted that. Since it was a wip when you posted it.
What will show is whether your nay saying is right or wrong
They posted the tiers... people gave feedback... either here or on the IRC. So either they listened to the criticism and changed it, or they didn't.
Can't wait to see!
Great stuff!
Given that the original list was being presented for discussion/feedback, it would be quite natural to see a somewhat changed list in the actual KS launch. Don't be congratulating yourself too much as the "agent of change", lol
I'd not be the slightest bit surprised if the IRC "leak" wasn't intentional. You'd have to be quite naive in this day and age to think that such juicy info would remain "confidential" if posted in a completely unsecured medium like IRC.
I'd not be the slightest bit surprised if the IRC "leak" wasn't intentional. You'd have to be quite naive in this day and age to think that such juicy info would remain "confidential" if posted in a completely unsecured medium like IRC.
Very true.
Walsh has controlled everything quite well. That's not a bad thing.
I'd not be the slightest bit surprised if the IRC "leak" wasn't intentional. You'd have to be quite naive in this day and age to think that such juicy info would remain "confidential" if posted in a completely unsecured medium like IRC.
Very true.
Walsh has controlled everything quite well. That's not a bad thing.
if the KS passes goals, congrats to him for a job well done!
if it fails, then unfortunately he has let down a dozen employees, their families and deprived the world of the ability to play this amazing game.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
This is probably a waste of time since the topic has already derailed.
I feel that there are too many tiers and it bothers me when they include in game items at a time where there is no context(no game, or game is behind closed doors) for those items. Over-complexity can be a sign of inexperience and may also overwhelm potential investors. Items with no context have no meaningful value. The existence of the higher dollar tiers doesn't bother me. You never know who's interested in investing and you'd be a fool not to provide them the opportunity.
Other than that I think they did a good job designing the tier progression. Early tiers focus on the individual, at some point offering a package that looks like it was meant for a couple or a couple of friends. Mid tiers focus on guilds where persistent guilds can split the package cost for guild bonuses. Upper tiers provide an option for the whales and rather than costing an imbalanced amount of resources to provide the service, they turned them into content creation that would have cost them to do themselves anyway.
$75 to join open beta weekends? $120 for closed beta? $150 for Headstart?
You guys are out of your minds if you pay this kind of money for these crappy games
That is what happens when people surround themselves with yes men. It's been proven over and over and over again with game development. It's a shame because I kind of liked the concepts... but I will be utterly shocked if they raise 900k unless they change these tiers prior to going live.
I have to agree. Devs communicate with players who are most attracted to the game and spend the most time on the forums, offering ideas, and making valid points about how to proceed, also offering the most encouragement. The problem is that this core group alone aren't enough to make a game succeed. Most successful games, IMO, end up with a flood of casuals who actually give ongoing support to the game. The core group can only give so much.
Unfortunately the core group tend to be hard core about the game which often includes content and pricing. How many times has a game had to nerf content and reduce pricing because it wasn't casual friendly? If you want a hard core playerbase for your game that's up to you, just be careful not to turn it into a Wildstar. I was thinking why pay 10k to add content to a game when other games let you design player quests for free?
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
$75 to join open beta weekends? $120 for closed beta? $150 for Headstart?
You guys are out of your minds if you pay this kind of money for these crappy games
That is what happens when people surround themselves with yes men. It's been proven over and over and over again with game development. It's a shame because I kind of liked the concepts... but I will be utterly shocked if they raise 900k unless they change these tiers prior to going live.
I have to agree. Devs communicate with players who are most attracted to the game and spend the most time on the forums, offering ideas, and making valid points about how to proceed, also offering the most encouragement. The problem is that this core group alone aren't enough to make a game succeed. Most successful games, IMO, end up with a flood of casuals who actually give ongoing support to the game. The core group can only give so much.
Unfortunately the core group tend to be hard core about the game which often includes content and pricing. How many times has a game had to nerf content and reduce pricing because it wasn't casual friendly? If you want a hard core playerbase for your game that's up to you, just be careful not to turn it into a Wildstar. I was thinking why pay 10k to add content to a game when other games let you design player quests for free?
They have for a while dropped dev journals to MMORPG.com and Jeromy has dropped in here from time to time to either clarify or discuss. He also took from other kickstarters that he felt succeeded and tried to hit in their ballpark. With the IRC chat it was to drop it into the people who would be most interested in the game and most likely know the most about it to see how it would work..test the waters so to speak. It wasn't really intended for the audience at large as that would have gotten people who just wanted to get things for cheap or aren't familiar with the game mechanics and thus want to get things that would potentially unbalance the game.
Personally myself I would have first dropped into IRC to see what they thought of it. Modified based on that. Then drop a forum post and modify it on that, then dropped a post either here or on youtube and taken that information instead of just IRC and go. However i'm not designing the game so I can't really say what will work best.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
I remember his discussions here. I wish him well. I really think they may need to take into consideration those who are dedicated gamers but are not part of the core player group. When the game launches they will come flooding in and adjustments usually have to be made. Perhaps a link to surveys to get a feel for casual players reactions and thoughts.
It's just a feeling I have. I've notice a lot of new games run into this and feel the need to mention it in advance, just as I often feel the need to ask what is being done about gold sellers and botters, everyone knows they will come but most give it a low priority and don't even consider it at all until it becomes a problem.
Post edited by Octagon7711 on
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
One of the bigger issues with the Kickstarter is the $150 tier and the 3 month early head start it promises. The hardcore fans will just gobble this perk up because they were going to spend that much on the game anyhow. The casuals look at people getting a 3 month head start in a PvP game with full looting (plus a 3 month start on crafting, land, and other economics) and will just shrug and move along.
We will see soon! Less than 2 days to KS launch!
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
It comes down to this... if you want a different kind of game made, you need a different sort of team working on it. Going back to the same people over and over again to make your games is only going to result in the same games being re-made multiple times.
This. 1000x this. While OP would rather troll and attempt to cause doubt in an effort to sway potential backers, people are sick of playing the same damn MMORPG year after year.
This dev, to their credit, is attempting to offer something different for the genre. Not only that, they are coming to Kickstarter with much more than a proof of concept. Soulbound has produced design documents, well fleshed out systems, Lore, a playable combat system, aging system overview, etc.
Looking back at like Kickstarters, many failed because they had no where near this amount of content up front. Pantheon, had it had the demo it displayed a month or so back, would have funded. You have exceptions like Camelot Unchained that funded on concepts alone for $2 milion (no disrespect to Mark Jacobs. I backed the project bigtime based on his reputation and prior games).
My point is, based on what Walsh and Soulbound have shown, I'd be shocked if this Kickstarter isn't funded. They have provided enough material, both in concept and demonstrative, tangible gameplay, that unless something about the design turns people off, CoE will get the backer support it needs. I mean, look how much money people threw at Ryan Dancey's Pathfinder game. And it looked horrible from the start.
One of the bigger issues with the Kickstarter is the $150 tier and the 3 month early head start it promises. The hardcore fans will just gobble this perk up because they were going to spend that much on the game anyhow. The casuals look at people getting a 3 month head start in a PvP game with full looting (plus a 3 month start on crafting, land, and other economics) and will just shrug and move along.
We will see soon! Less than 2 days to KS launch!
If there was no headstart, there would be no established civilization, cities or settlements for the players on release to participate and be engaged in.
Additionally, it helps mitigate the launch-day cluster-fuck of thousands of people within render distance of each other, crashing performance and maybe killing the server on day one.
If the game is designed well players will adapt and fill in roles quickly. Especially guilds that participated in Alpha and Beta testing. I still see performance issues even in games that have headstart on launch day. I'm not against headstarts I just don't think it makes that big of a difference as games tend to make major balance changes after their regular launch anyways. It's attractive to players who want to be first I suppose.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
One of the bigger issues with the Kickstarter is the $150 tier and the 3 month early head start it promises. The hardcore fans will just gobble this perk up because they were going to spend that much on the game anyhow. The casuals look at people getting a 3 month head start in a PvP game with full looting (plus a 3 month start on crafting, land, and other economics) and will just shrug and move along.
We will see soon! Less than 2 days to KS launch!
If there was no headstart, there would be no established civilization, cities or settlements for the players on release to participate and be engaged in.
Additionally, it helps mitigate the launch-day cluster-fuck of thousands of people within render distance of each other, crashing performance and maybe killing the server on day one.
Same thing Pathfinder Online claimed.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Given how they're designing the game, chances are you'll have to find a group just to give money to the Kickstarter. Start working those LFG forums now, folks! Gotta get back in practice!
AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!
We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD.
Comments
You are predicting the future as much as I do.
The difference is that I am basing my opinion on the outcome of previous KS events while you are basing it on the promises of a man who wants to sell his idea.
It comes down to you signing up here to tell us that we are wrong and you are right.
I an asking your opinion on what you think it is? Your the one saying everyone else is wrong when they talk about it, therefore explain to everyone what in you obviously mighty opinion it is.
Please tell me where I have said it will 100% be a success?
If you actually read my last post you will see I said that I don't know that it will be a success just that I am willing to take the gamble.
You are still talking about the kickstarter too. Your original comment that I was quoting was you talking about the business plan in general and therefore my point still stands you can't comment as you don't know.
Finally, keep in mind that the Kickstarter's success determines not only whether or not people will get an opportunity to play the amazing game we're working on, but it also impacts the course of a dozen peoples' careers and families.
And I'm done arguing with a brick wall now.
Exciting times indeed!!
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Since it was a wip when you posted it.
What will show is whether your nay saying is right or wrong
Wow a constructive argument.
So yes if that is their only plan then the kickstarter needs to work. But have you thought there may be contingency plans?
Now I'm not saying there is I am saying f here might be.
*see when your constructive we can discuss it properly*
As for me, after the kickstarter stars I might put some dollars down on this (depending on what the actual kickstarter looks like, this one is useless right now for basing any decision on as it's just numbers people put out) but I do so because I like what the game is showing, the only other game I did this for was Dreamfall chapters which is already released.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
IMO if we need gamer's to start funding games,then i prefer to just see the games die.
I have said it before,if game developers want money to design a game,then offer shares or something of equal value,NOTHING else will satisfy me.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Kickstarter is the golden goose that keeps on giving. Why not have the players pay for donate to the making of a game?
It is the welfare system at it's most capitalistic.
Can't wait to see!
Great stuff!
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I'd not be the slightest bit surprised if the IRC "leak" wasn't intentional. You'd have to be quite naive in this day and age to think that such juicy info would remain "confidential" if posted in a completely unsecured medium like IRC.
Walsh has controlled everything quite well. That's not a bad thing.
if it fails, then unfortunately he has let down a dozen employees, their families and deprived the world of the ability to play this amazing game.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I feel that there are too many tiers and it bothers me when they include in game items at a time where there is no context(no game, or game is behind closed doors) for those items. Over-complexity can be a sign of inexperience and may also overwhelm potential investors. Items with no context have no meaningful value. The existence of the higher dollar tiers doesn't bother me. You never know who's interested in investing and you'd be a fool not to provide them the opportunity.
Other than that I think they did a good job designing the tier progression. Early tiers focus on the individual, at some point offering a package that looks like it was meant for a couple or a couple of friends. Mid tiers focus on guilds where persistent guilds can split the package cost for guild bonuses. Upper tiers provide an option for the whales and rather than costing an imbalanced amount of resources to provide the service, they turned them into content creation that would have cost them to do themselves anyway.
Unfortunately the core group tend to be hard core about the game which often includes content and pricing. How many times has a game had to nerf content and reduce pricing because it wasn't casual friendly? If you want a hard core playerbase for your game that's up to you, just be careful not to turn it into a Wildstar. I was thinking why pay 10k to add content to a game when other games let you design player quests for free?
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Personally myself I would have first dropped into IRC to see what they thought of it. Modified based on that. Then drop a forum post and modify it on that, then dropped a post either here or on youtube and taken that information instead of just IRC and go. However i'm not designing the game so I can't really say what will work best.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
It's just a feeling I have. I've notice a lot of new games run into this and feel the need to mention it in advance, just as I often feel the need to ask what is being done about gold sellers and botters, everyone knows they will come but most give it a low priority and don't even consider it at all until it becomes a problem.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
We will see soon! Less than 2 days to KS launch!
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Additionally, it helps mitigate the launch-day cluster-fuck of thousands of people within render distance of each other, crashing performance and maybe killing the server on day one.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!
We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD.
#IStandWithVic