The notion of rushing comes out of players hyper-focused on "beating the game" versus those that want to experience the broadness of content and "enjoying the game". In the case of dungeons it's also a matter of exploration, resource gathering, and finding comfortable pacing.
Those that "rush" dungeons and raids are generally defined as those setting a fast enough pace that it's simply not fun for anyone else to play with. Efficiency may be the goal of that player, but it's at the cost of entertainment for anyone that wants to take it even a little bit slower so they aren't perpetually locked in the monotony of combat or trying to play catch-up the entire time they're in the dungeon.
how do you know the "rush" people are not enjoying the game? May be they just enjoy faster pace games?
And so what if it is not fun for you to play with them. You don't have to. You can simply hit the quit button (which i do if I am in a group that is not fun). No one is obliged to play at your pace to make it fun for you. And you are not obliged to play with anyone.
The notion of rushing comes out of players hyper-focused on "beating the game" versus those that want to experience the broadness of content and "enjoying the game". In the case of dungeons it's also a matter of exploration, resource gathering, and finding comfortable pacing.
Those that "rush" dungeons and raids are generally defined as those setting a fast enough pace that it's simply not fun for anyone else to play with. Efficiency may be the goal of that player, but it's at the cost of entertainment for anyone that wants to take it even a little bit slower so they aren't perpetually locked in the monotony of combat or trying to play catch-up the entire time they're in the dungeon.
how do you know the "rush" people are not enjoying the game? May be they just enjoy faster pace games?
And so what if it is not fun for you to play with them. You don't have to. You can simply hit the quit button (which i do if I am in a group that is not fun). No one is obliged to play at your pace to make it fun for you. And you are not obliged to play with anyone.
Same can be said of rush people who whine about you not going fast enough. I am no more obliged to rush a dungeon than I can ask them to slow down.
I am certain their many times hostile take on the game with rush and know everything on YouTube types hurt the bottom line for developers. Far more than the laid back people are.
The notion of rushing comes out of players hyper-focused on "beating the game" versus those that want to experience the broadness of content and "enjoying the game". In the case of dungeons it's also a matter of exploration, resource gathering, and finding comfortable pacing.
Those that "rush" dungeons and raids are generally defined as those setting a fast enough pace that it's simply not fun for anyone else to play with. Efficiency may be the goal of that player, but it's at the cost of entertainment for anyone that wants to take it even a little bit slower so they aren't perpetually locked in the monotony of combat or trying to play catch-up the entire time they're in the dungeon.
how do you know the "rush" people are not enjoying the game? May be they just enjoy faster pace games?
And so what if it is not fun for you to play with them. You don't have to. You can simply hit the quit button (which i do if I am in a group that is not fun). No one is obliged to play at your pace to make it fun for you. And you are not obliged to play with anyone.
It's not a question of whether or not it's fun for the rush people, it's a question of if it's fun for anyone else when they have to chase a person setting a faster pace than they are comfortable with.
And quitting groups is fine for some, not for others. Depends as well on if the game has a penalty for leaving missions (like has been added to queue tools of more modern games).
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
It's not a question of whether or not it's fun for the rush people, it's a question of if it's fun for anyone else when they have to chase a person setting a faster pace than they are comfortable with.
And quitting groups is fine for some, not for others. Depends as well on if the game has a penalty for leaving missions (like has been added to queue tools of more modern games).
Of course it is.
What make you think the the fun of the slow people is more important than the "rush" people? Why should they slow down and become bored just for you? It is simply not a good idea for people who have very different preferences to play together.
What pve game has severe penalty for leaving? Sure you may have to wait for the queue again, but it is not like you cannot play candy crush or read a novel when you wait.
See, this is the problem when people want to play together. It is much easier just to solo. I play at my own pace.
No, because in that context the one setting the pace is the only one that even has the opportunity to "have fun". Therefore the question of whether or not they are having fun is not a question because under most scenarios the answer is obvious.
The others that are not setting the pace are the subject of question because they are the ones that have no say in what they are experiencing by being grouped with such a person.
And you already explained the penalty, they are temporarily locked out from playing the game content and have to wait it out in one manner or another for the chance to play with a different group and hope it's got a more comfortable pacing.
As a person that does actually tend to play games at a sprint, I don't generally witness a group I am uncomfortable with. I have the presence of mind and flexibility in how I enjoy games however to actually have fun simply tooling around at times, and am happy to pause every so often while other players catch up in a dungeon or mission or slow my pace down by focusing more completely on support so someone else can set the pace.
I'm not so self centered and delusional as to think my opinion and preferences in the pacing of a game, session, or otherwise is the only pace a game should be experienced at. I can also understand the merit for some that like doing less "efficient" things in a game because they find it more fun.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
The notion of rushing comes out of players hyper-focused on "beating the game" versus those that want to experience the broadness of content and "enjoying the game". In the case of dungeons it's also a matter of exploration, resource gathering, and finding comfortable pacing.
Those that "rush" dungeons and raids are generally defined as those setting a fast enough pace that it's simply not fun for anyone else to play with. Efficiency may be the goal of that player, but it's at the cost of entertainment for anyone that wants to take it even a little bit slower so they aren't perpetually locked in the monotony of combat or trying to play catch-up the entire time they're in the dungeon.
how do you know the "rush" people are not enjoying the game? May be they just enjoy faster pace games?
And so what if it is not fun for you to play with them. You don't have to. You can simply hit the quit button (which i do if I am in a group that is not fun). No one is obliged to play at your pace to make it fun for you. And you are not obliged to play with anyone.
That's all fine and good until these people are trying to get you to skip story elements, or anything else slowing them down. These people were a plague in GW1, they're a plague in TOR, ESO and a number of slower paced games, where the main objective isn't just combat.
Thinking of these people makes the notion "people aren't rushing" seem quite absurd TBH.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The notion of rushing comes out of players hyper-focused on "beating the game" versus those that want to experience the broadness of content and "enjoying the game". In the case of dungeons it's also a matter of exploration, resource gathering, and finding comfortable pacing.
Those that "rush" dungeons and raids are generally defined as those setting a fast enough pace that it's simply not fun for anyone else to play with. Efficiency may be the goal of that player, but it's at the cost of entertainment for anyone that wants to take it even a little bit slower so they aren't perpetually locked in the monotony of combat or trying to play catch-up the entire time they're in the dungeon.
how do you know the "rush" people are not enjoying the game? May be they just enjoy faster pace games?
And so what if it is not fun for you to play with them. You don't have to. You can simply hit the quit button (which i do if I am in a group that is not fun). No one is obliged to play at your pace to make it fun for you. And you are not obliged to play with anyone.
That's all fine and good until these people are trying to get you to skip story elements, or anything else slowing them down. These people were a plague in GW1, they're a plague in TOR, ESO and a number of slower paced games, where the main objective isn't just combat.
Kind of pathetic that players are making runs at all the content anyways in MMORPG. Lots of opportunities for different ways to deliver content and are stuck repeating static content everyone else has done. Not surprisingly it breeds those types of players.
The others that are not setting the pace are the subject of question because they are the ones that have no say in what they are experiencing by being grouped with such a person.
If the slow people set the pace, the "rush" people have to suffer. It is the same thing.
The only reason why you are complaining is because slow people are in the minority. If the rush people are in the minority, then they will be complaining all the slow people wasting their time.
In fact, isn't it kind of a democracy? If 4 out of 5 guys in a group is going slow, the last one has no choice, or else he is going to fight the boss alone. If 4 out of 5 wants to go faster, what are you complaining about?
You do realize there's more to most any MMO than just progressing to max level and getting your character geared, right?
The notion of rushing comes out of players hyper-focused on "beating the game" versus those that want to experience the broadness of content and "enjoying the game". In the case of dungeons it's also a matter of exploration, resource gathering, and finding comfortable pacing.
Those that "rush" dungeons and raids are generally defined as those setting a fast enough pace that it's simply not fun for anyone else to play with. Efficiency may be the goal of that player, but it's at the cost of entertainment for anyone that wants to take it even a little bit slower so they aren't perpetually locked in the monotony of combat or trying to play catch-up the entire time they're in the dungeon.
Very very well said...The players that rush through content tend to be the most miserable lol.
That's all fine and good until these people are trying to get you to skip story elements, or anything else slowing them down.
It is only bad if you don't like it. They have no obligation to wait for you. For them, it is no good if you slow them down, and bore them.
You don't think your preference is superior to theirs, do you?
They can do and feel what they want, as I can, I can also express my feelings on it as I just did...it's not about being superior, it's a matter of not wanting to be rushed, nor ridiculed for wanting to have some context to why my character is in that dungeon or scenario (which happened a lot in GW1 as an example)... I've also experienced it in TOR and ESO to a lesser degree. So stuff it and skip it if you don't wanna hear it.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The others that are not setting the pace are the subject of question because they are the ones that have no say in what they are experiencing by being grouped with such a person.
If the slow people set the pace, the "rush" people have to suffer. It is the same thing.
The only reason why you are complaining is because slow people are in the minority. If the rush people are in the minority, then they will be complaining all the slow people wasting their time.
In fact, isn't it kind of a democracy? If 4 out of 5 guys in a group is going slow, the last one has no choice, or else he is going to fight the boss alone. If 4 out of 5 wants to go faster, what are you complaining about?
You failed in logic there.
Slow people can't set the pace. If someone is running through the content faster than they are, then that person has set the pace and left them behind.
The only reason I'm "complaining" is because one person tried to claim that there's no such thing as "rushing" content and I was correcting the fact that it's a matter of perspective and pacing.
Try and read what you're responding to next time. I know it's high hopes for me to ask of you seeing your track record, but for the love of god do try next time.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
You're what you call a "niche gamer". Not too many games catering to you right now. Black Desert has a lot of what you mention, but it is not a very social game. It's more of a "Bring Your Own Friends" thing.
Basically all types who don't log in 30 minutes to solo quests are niche gamers, but I am pretty sure that together are there more of different kinds of niche players then there actually are mainstream gamers today.
There certainly are enough people like the OP (and me for that matter) to make a few MMOs for them. It seems like all games today focus on the same casual group of players a nd add a little for the rest but that kinda means that there is 100 games focusing on the exact same group of players and almost nothing for everyone else.
Lets just say that there are 100M MMO players (for simplicity). Then maybe half of them are casual soloers meaning you have a 100 games for 50M people. Then you should have like 5M raiders, 25M group content fans. some crafters, explorers and a few others and the rest 10-15M would be different types of PvPers. There is a lot of players out there who have to live ona little charity content most games add.
These numbers are of course just guesses but the principle is right. If there is 50 burger joints in your town opening the first sushi place will give you more customers then just making the same the market is flodded with. You could of course making more money if you could make so awesome burgers that you steal all customers from everyone else but that is almost impossible and even if you do the rest will just copy your burgers pretty soon.
I don't think most people actually do log in for just 30 minutes. However I do think that most people like that option that they can do something relatively significant in a short time period. When i have only half an hour I'm not planning on playing a game but often enough something happens while I'm playing that causes me to log out in a hurry.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
That's all fine and good until these people are trying to get you to skip story elements, or anything else slowing them down.
It is only bad if you don't like it. They have no obligation to wait for you. For them, it is no good if you slow them down, and bore them.
You don't think your preference is superior to theirs, do you?
They can do and feel what they want, as I can, I can also express my feelings on it as I just did...it's not about being superior, it's a matter of not wanting to be rushed, nor ridiculed for wanting to have some context to why my character is in that dungeon or scenario (which happened a lot in GW1 as an example)... I've also experienced it in TOR and ESO to a lesser degree. So stuff it and skip it if you don't wanna hear it.
so? You don't want to be rushed. They don't want to be bored. You shouldn't play with them. Why complain? Just play with people like you.
Slow people can't set the pace. If someone is running through the content faster than they are, then that person has set the pace and left them behind.
Of course they can.
4 people don't move in a room chatting. The last guy go out and fight the whole dungeon on his own. Really? The fast person cannot set the pace just because the dungeon is designed as group content.
If you are one slow guy in a group with 4 other rush guys .. of course you cannot set the pace. You should not .. because that is not what the majority of the group wants. The reverse is also true. How can I rush others if 4 of them stay behind without moving up?
Slow people can't set the pace. If someone is running through the content faster than they are, then that person has set the pace and left them behind.
Of course they can.
4 people don't move in a room chatting. The last guy go out and fight the whole dungeon on his own. Really? The fast person cannot set the pace just because the dungeon is designed as group content.
If you are one slow guy in a group with 4 other rush guys .. of course you cannot set the pace. You should not .. because that is not what the majority of the group wants. The reverse is also true. How can I rush others if 4 of them stay behind without moving up?
If you're in the minority then tough.
The reason why rushers are generally frowned upon is they are usually the aggressors.
The only time you saw people be told to slow down is when people weren't prepped in slower regen old days.
I wanted the same ... then found out where those players headed: vanilla gaming.
I haven't gone back to retail since. When a new indie mmorpg genre game is made once again (awaiting the currently KS options still a year or more out) I'll likely return. Until then the currently crop of money grabbing, genre destroying retail companies can stick their games up their asses and not receive a penny from me.
It is f'ing hilarious nearly every day when playing on the popular servers (currently drama from hell with Blizzard coming down hard on "N" and DDOS attacks on "K") in lower level zone chat with people constantly saying things like, "OMG this is challenging and fun and people actually talk and group!!".
Yes indeed, this is called proper mmo'fucking'rpg game play and not corrupted for solo players and cash grab whale hunting (don't get me wrong, I still want even more old school). These are games meant to be played! Not meant to play you.
Sadly this site isn't a place to talk about this in detail because supporting the companies destroying the very genre they support is more important to them.
I am one of the relaxing type gamer's but it doesn't matter ,the games themselves are designed to RACE through.They are NOT true mmorpg's ,but instead just cheap single player game with a login screen. Look at how cheap even this very lazy rendition of a mmorpg is.We had FFXIV tried to get away without an Auction house,then fast forward to BDO has no auction house,these cheap ass efforts are trying to avoid anything MMO and just give us a single player game.
Then we see tons of instancing,why have a million players login only to hide each other from each other in instances?
Let me know when a real mmorpg comes out,all i see is crap single player games with login screens to try and ripoff consumers for more money than a single player game is worth.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
From a design perspective, this argument of slow versus fast content absorption is a tough one.. I know for a fact that I never enjoy rushing to level cap and the inevitable looking for things to do.. On the other side, I can see why some people do this due to the design choices many devs have implemented with the concept of "end game".. It should be noted that I hate the idea of "end game".. heh.. Which of course is why I am designing how I am.. I won't have much choice but to create a world that allows for both styles of play, but encourages immersion more than a carrot-on-a-stick only at the end..
Let me know when a real mmorpg comes out,all i see is crap single player games with login screens to try and ripoff consumers for more money than a single player game is worth.
what are you talking about?
mmorpgs are f2p, and single player game is $60 a pop. How can a player be ripped off when he is paying nothing? Sure, whales are ripped off, but those are in the minority.
In fact, is there a reason why we cannot enjoy mmorpgs as single player games, if they are fun?
The reason why rushers are generally frowned upon is they are usually the aggressors.
The only time you saw people be told to slow down is when people weren't prepped in slower regen old days.
Why the double standard?
If you are the minority with a bunch of "rush" players, also "tough".
What aggressors? They are just playing their game the way they like, not unlike you.
Because if you're rushing other people you're generally nagging for others to go your speed. Rarely is there that one person or a group like slow down unless the game requires downtime which most don't.
They could always speed run this in group finder to filter some out.
I enjoy grouping. Not rushing through dungeons, or exploiting bosses. Not rushing to end game to be top dawg on the server. I enjoy the company of others on voice comms. I want to explore the worlds, take in the sights. Have laughs and also do some pvp. If there is an area that gives less xp but different scenery, lets go there and not care. Create friendships with other players or new players instead of insulting them. Not a zerg, but a family of like minded individuals out for an adventure.
Where are my kind of people? Do you exist anymore?
I can totally relate I too like to actually adventure and enjoy the content, were seeing a shift in this so called niche that everyone is putting us in and thats exactly why were getting games like Chronicles of Elyria funded for 900k in a matter of 10 days of it being on kickstarter. All you who thought that this simpleton gaming era for MMO's was awesome are now starting to go in the opposite direction because your bored as shitz.. Its just about having good ideas and not copying other crap to bring both sides together in my opinion. Personally I think development teams put company's like blizzard on a higher pedestal then the gamer's and all try to strive for those big bucks and it ends up being their own demise.
Because if you're rushing other people you're generally nagging for others to go your speed. Rarely is there that one person or a group like slow down unless the game requires downtime which most don't.
So what? And dragging others' back is .. you are generally nagging for others to go your speed. The SAME thing.
Sure rushing is more popular. That just say more people prefer faster gameplay.
So you complain because your preference is not popular. No one is obliged to play your preference. Sure, you can air your opinion. But it is fair for me to also point out that it is just a preference, and it is not superior than those who want to rush.
Comments
And so what if it is not fun for you to play with them. You don't have to. You can simply hit the quit button (which i do if I am in a group that is not fun). No one is obliged to play at your pace to make it fun for you. And you are not obliged to play with anyone.
I am certain their many times hostile take on the game with rush and know everything on YouTube types hurt the bottom line for developers. Far more than the laid back people are.
And quitting groups is fine for some, not for others. Depends as well on if the game has a penalty for leaving missions (like has been added to queue tools of more modern games).
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
What make you think the the fun of the slow people is more important than the "rush" people? Why should they slow down and become bored just for you? It is simply not a good idea for people who have very different preferences to play together.
What pve game has severe penalty for leaving? Sure you may have to wait for the queue again, but it is not like you cannot play candy crush or read a novel when you wait.
See, this is the problem when people want to play together. It is much easier just to solo. I play at my own pace.
The others that are not setting the pace are the subject of question because they are the ones that have no say in what they are experiencing by being grouped with such a person.
And you already explained the penalty, they are temporarily locked out from playing the game content and have to wait it out in one manner or another for the chance to play with a different group and hope it's got a more comfortable pacing.
As a person that does actually tend to play games at a sprint, I don't generally witness a group I am uncomfortable with. I have the presence of mind and flexibility in how I enjoy games however to actually have fun simply tooling around at times, and am happy to pause every so often while other players catch up in a dungeon or mission or slow my pace down by focusing more completely on support so someone else can set the pace.
I'm not so self centered and delusional as to think my opinion and preferences in the pacing of a game, session, or otherwise is the only pace a game should be experienced at. I can also understand the merit for some that like doing less "efficient" things in a game because they find it more fun.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Thinking of these people makes the notion "people aren't rushing" seem quite absurd TBH.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The only reason why you are complaining is because slow people are in the minority. If the rush people are in the minority, then they will be complaining all the slow people wasting their time.
In fact, isn't it kind of a democracy? If 4 out of 5 guys in a group is going slow, the last one has no choice, or else he is going to fight the boss alone. If 4 out of 5 wants to go faster, what are you complaining about?
You don't think your preference is superior to theirs, do you?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Slow people can't set the pace. If someone is running through the content faster than they are, then that person has set the pace and left them behind.
The only reason I'm "complaining" is because one person tried to claim that there's no such thing as "rushing" content and I was correcting the fact that it's a matter of perspective and pacing.
Try and read what you're responding to next time. I know it's high hopes for me to ask of you seeing your track record, but for the love of god do try next time.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
There certainly are enough people like the OP (and me for that matter) to make a few MMOs for them. It seems like all games today focus on the same casual group of players a nd add a little for the rest but that kinda means that there is 100 games focusing on the exact same group of players and almost nothing for everyone else.
Lets just say that there are 100M MMO players (for simplicity). Then maybe half of them are casual soloers meaning you have a 100 games for 50M people. Then you should have like 5M raiders, 25M group content fans. some crafters, explorers and a few others and the rest 10-15M would be different types of PvPers. There is a lot of players out there who have to live ona little charity content most games add.
These numbers are of course just guesses but the principle is right. If there is 50 burger joints in your town opening the first sushi place will give you more customers then just making the same the market is flodded with. You could of course making more money if you could make so awesome burgers that you steal all customers from everyone else but that is almost impossible and even if you do the rest will just copy your burgers pretty soon.
You don't think you are changing them, do you?
4 people don't move in a room chatting. The last guy go out and fight the whole dungeon on his own. Really? The fast person cannot set the pace just because the dungeon is designed as group content.
If you are one slow guy in a group with 4 other rush guys .. of course you cannot set the pace. You should not .. because that is not what the majority of the group wants. The reverse is also true. How can I rush others if 4 of them stay behind without moving up?
The reason why rushers are generally frowned upon is they are usually the aggressors.
The only time you saw people be told to slow down is when people weren't prepped in slower regen old days.
I haven't gone back to retail since. When a new indie mmorpg genre game is made once again (awaiting the currently KS options still a year or more out) I'll likely return. Until then the currently crop of money grabbing, genre destroying retail companies can stick their games up their asses and not receive a penny from me.
It is f'ing hilarious nearly every day when playing on the popular servers (currently drama from hell with Blizzard coming down hard on "N" and DDOS attacks on "K") in lower level zone chat with people constantly saying things like, "OMG this is challenging and fun and people actually talk and group!!".
Yes indeed, this is called proper mmo'fucking'rpg game play and not corrupted for solo players and cash grab whale hunting (don't get me wrong, I still want even more old school). These are games meant to be played! Not meant to play you.
Sadly this site isn't a place to talk about this in detail because supporting the companies destroying the very genre they support is more important to them.
You stay sassy!
Look at how cheap even this very lazy rendition of a mmorpg is.We had FFXIV tried to get away without an Auction house,then fast forward to BDO has no auction house,these cheap ass efforts are trying to avoid anything MMO and just give us a single player game.
Then we see tons of instancing,why have a million players login only to hide each other from each other in instances?
Let me know when a real mmorpg comes out,all i see is crap single player games with login screens to try and ripoff consumers for more money than a single player game is worth.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Anyway.. #teamslow, #enjoythegame
..because we're gamers, damn it!! - William Massachusetts (Log Horizon)
If you are the minority with a bunch of "rush" players, also "tough".
What aggressors? They are just playing their game the way they like, not unlike you.
mmorpgs are f2p, and single player game is $60 a pop. How can a player be ripped off when he is paying nothing? Sure, whales are ripped off, but those are in the minority.
In fact, is there a reason why we cannot enjoy mmorpgs as single player games, if they are fun?
They could always speed run this in group finder to filter some out.
I can totally relate I too like to actually adventure and enjoy the content, were seeing a shift in this so called niche that everyone is putting us in and thats exactly why were getting games like Chronicles of Elyria funded for 900k in a matter of 10 days of it being on kickstarter. All you who thought that this simpleton gaming era for MMO's was awesome are now starting to go in the opposite direction because your bored as shitz.. Its just about having good ideas and not copying other crap to bring both sides together in my opinion. Personally I think development teams put company's like blizzard on a higher pedestal then the gamer's and all try to strive for those big bucks and it ends up being their own demise.
So you complain because your preference is not popular. No one is obliged to play your preference. Sure, you can air your opinion. But it is fair for me to also point out that it is just a preference, and it is not superior than those who want to rush.