Here is my opinion with regards to PVP & PVE in Chronicles of Elyria: Most mechanics in COE are there to serve in the larger picture of story progression of both the player's personal story as well as the overarching story within the game. PvP and PVE are not exempt of this, both exist in the game but both serve specific purposes. PVP exists in the form of banditry, assassinations, wars for territory/resources, player run events like gladiatorial arenas or fit pits, jobs like mercenary/sellswords/guards, player "bosses" and more - PVE exists for along the same lines, environmental threats against Elyria that the players must overcome for one reason or another. I don't think Soulbound is trying to sell either as being the main draw, they are trying to sell the idea that players create their own stories and experiences with the tools in COE that could be PVE or PVP related.
Also, quick note on looting as there has been some talk about it: there are three kinds of looting, inventory loot, quick loot and corpse loot.
Quick Loot: While someone is incapacitated, players will only have time to grab a few quick things; specifically, any money in the player’s purse or items that had been in their hands (weapons, animals that they may have been riding or guiding including pack animals). You will not have time to unbuckle anything (belt & scabbard), remove any armor, or rummage their backpack.
Inventory Loot: When someone is Spirit Walking, you have a bit more time to grab items off their person. In addition to quick loot options, players may also unbuckle things (take their sword & scabbard), remove any rings or other jewelry or rummage through their backpack. They may not take clothing.
Corpse Loot: The final form of looting is called Corpse Looting. Whenever you come across a corpse, you can take all items from the corpse which is not just limited to the items the corpse is wearing.
This is advertised as a PVP game. Sure it has some systems in place to try and deter griefers and gankers but is still a PVP game. So to make this a short answer it is a PVP game.
It will have aspects of PVE, but again it is a PVP game.
For starters, it would be advantageous to the game if the different game play style demographics stopped trying to claim every game as their own.
While there are games that can be clearly described as PvP games, Ie., FPS/MOBA/DOTA and even MMORPGs like EVE, MO and Darkfall, most MMORPGs are a mixture of both PvE and PvP, which are best defined as PvX games.
Coe is a PvX game. It has both PvE and PvP game features. As a matter of fact, by the mere fact that PvP is greatly discouraged, and severely penalized whenever engaged in, that alone would better define CoE as a PvE game with PvP being added simply to add more realism to its world.
What it definitely is not is a PvP game in which dying is rendered irrelevent and insignificant, and in which death counts are an integral part of the game with everyone killing each other willy nilly and respawning only to kill each other again ad nauseum. That would be a more accurate definition of a "PvP game," but that is not what CoE is about, nor is it integral to its game play.
CoE is a PvE game with PvP being a feature possibility, but only if you chose to engage in it. It is, however, discouraged, not encouraged, and even when you engage in it it comes with a heavy price. That doesnt sound like a "PvP game."
It just gets a bit tiresome hearing the PvP-centric crowds that are always quick to claim every game that allows for PvP to be a PvP game when nothing could be further from the truth in most MMORPG games.
MMORPGS are by their very nature predominantly PvE games. PvP is generally just another feature that the game offers to the player base to give it variety in game play.
First let me start off with saying that I don't play a single PVP game at this time. I am not a PVP fan myself. I do enjoy a random arena match or so here or there but no very often. Now with that said.
LaceOpium you try to say every game that has any PVE in it is a PVE game on any forum that talks about it. Pretty sure you tried to claim the same thing with black desert, which is a PVP centric game for endgame activites.
This game by the statements of the developers is an open world PVP game. Trying to say it is anything other than that is just you trying to push your own beliefs onto the game.
Does the game have some interesting PVE aspect yes. Can you stop me from killing you anywhere in the game, no, it is total open world where I can actually take your gear. That in itself is open world PVP.
I am not a fan of open world PVP myself, but I am so tired of seeing people buy games are being sold as PVP then complaining like they didn't know they didn't have a choice in it.
If you do not have a choice in whether to PVP it is a PVP game. If it doesn't have a different server set that is listed as PVE it is a PVP game. Or if the developer actually states multiple times and it is listed on their homepage that it is a PVP game it is a PVP game. Somehow you have a hard time grasping this. Stop trying to tell people that the game is not a PVP based game when it is.
Would the game probably have a great following with a PVE server, more than likely it would flourish as this has some really great ideas in it. But will it have that type of server, so far they have said no.
You state "PvP is greatly discouraged" no PVP is not discouraged, griefing is discouraged, PVP actually has consequences which is a great thing. You can knock a person out or you can actually kill them, you can also get away with it, you are not automatically jailed for doing it.
Here is the developers answer to is this a PVP game:
Q. Is there PvP?
Yeah. Lots. Everywhere. Kingdoms
go to war, assassins wage their silent battles in the night, highwaymen
lay wait in ambush on the unsuspecting passer-by. However, except in
times of war, PvP is illegal, and the penalty is stiff. So while PvP is
possible everywhere, it's highly unlikely around civilized areas.
And here is why they have created penalties:
Q. Griefers. Tell me you've at least eliminated the griefers!
Actually, more or less. In
Chronicles of Elyria, crimes such as attacking other characters is
punishable by time in prison. The more time someone spends in prison,
the shorter their playable lifespan, the more their skills atrophy, and
the less powerful they will ultimately become. So, we've kind of removed
most the incentive around griefing.
So you tell me if I can kill you anywhere I want even with penalties how this isn't a PVP game?
Again I don't even play PVP games but you trying to tell people who are actually looking for a PVE game that this is it is part of the problem. Would a person that likes PVE like myself probably love this game yes. Can I stop people from walking up and killing me in the street and taking my stuff, NO.
This is advertised as a PVP game. Sure it has some systems in place to try and deter griefers and gankers but is still a PVP game. So to make this a short answer it is a PVP game.
It will have aspects of PVE, but again it is a PVP game.
For starters, it would be advantageous to the game if the different game play style demographics stopped trying to claim every game as their own.
While there are games that can be clearly described as PvP games, Ie., FPS/MOBA/DOTA and even MMORPGs like EVE, MO and Darkfall, most MMORPGs are a mixture of both PvE and PvP, which are best defined as PvX games.
Coe is a PvX game. It has both PvE and PvP game features. As a matter of fact, by the mere fact that PvP is greatly discouraged, and severely penalized whenever engaged in, that alone would better define CoE as a PvE game with PvP being added simply to add more realism to its world.
What it definitely is not is a PvP game in which dying is rendered irrelevent and insignificant, and in which death counts are an integral part of the game with everyone killing each other willy nilly and respawning only to kill each other again ad nauseum. That would be a more accurate definition of a "PvP game," but that is not what CoE is about, nor is it integral to its game play.
CoE is a PvE game with PvP being a feature possibility, but only if you chose to engage in it. It is, however, discouraged, not encouraged, and even when you engage in it it comes with a heavy price. That doesnt sound like a "PvP game."
It just gets a bit tiresome hearing the PvP-centric crowds that are always quick to claim every game that allows for PvP to be a PvP game when nothing could be further from the truth in most MMORPG games.
MMORPGS are by their very nature predominantly PvE games. PvP is generally just another feature that the game offers to the player base to give it variety in game play.
First let me start off with saying that I don't play a single PVP game at this time. I am not a PVP fan myself. I do enjoy a random arena match or so here or there but no very often. Now with that said.
LaceOpium you try to say every game that has any PVE in it is a PVE game on any forum that talks about it. Pretty sure you tried to claim the same thing with black desert, which is a PVP centric game for endgame activites.
This game by the statements of the developers is an open world PVP game. Trying to say it is anything other than that is just you trying to push your own beliefs onto the game.
Does the game have some interesting PVE aspect yes. Can you stop me from killing you anywhere in the game, no, it is total open world where I can actually take your gear. That in itself is open world PVP.
I am not a fan of open world PVP myself, but I am so tired of seeing people buy games are being sold as PVP then complaining like they didn't know they didn't have a choice in it.
If you do not have a choice in whether to PVP it is a PVP game. If it doesn't have a different server set that is listed as PVE it is a PVP game. Or if the developer actually states multiple times and it is listed on their homepage that it is a PVP game it is a PVP game. Somehow you have a hard time grasping this. Stop trying to tell people that the game is not a PVP based game when it is.
Would the game probably have a great following with a PVE server, more than likely it would flourish as this has some really great ideas in it. But will it have that type of server, so far they have said no.
You state "PvP is greatly discouraged" no PVP is not discouraged, griefing is discouraged, PVP actually has consequences which is a great thing. You can knock a person out or you can actually kill them, you can also get away with it, you are not automatically jailed for doing it.
Here is the developers answer to is this a PVP game:
Q. Is there PvP?
Yeah. Lots. Everywhere. Kingdoms
go to war, assassins wage their silent battles in the night, highwaymen
lay wait in ambush on the unsuspecting passer-by. However, except in
times of war, PvP is illegal, and the penalty is stiff. So while PvP is
possible everywhere, it's highly unlikely around civilized areas.
And here is why they have created penalties:
Q. Griefers. Tell me you've at least eliminated the griefers!
Actually, more or less. In
Chronicles of Elyria, crimes such as attacking other characters is
punishable by time in prison. The more time someone spends in prison,
the shorter their playable lifespan, the more their skills atrophy, and
the less powerful they will ultimately become. So, we've kind of removed
most the incentive around griefing.
So you tell me if I can kill you anywhere I want even with penalties how this isn't a PVP game?
Again I don't even play PVP games but you trying to tell people who are actually looking for a PVE game that this is it is part of the problem. Would a person that likes PVE like myself probably love this game yes. Can I stop people from walking up and killing me in the street and taking my stuff, NO.
I appreciate your opinion on the matter. Can you tell me as a PVE player why you think you'll love this game?
No crowed just play and have fun cut the BS. Part of this game is going to be stealing identities so that you dont get caught so these penalties play in to the gameplay as well.
For starters, it would be advantageous to the game if the different game play style demographics stopped trying to claim every game as their own.
While there are games that can be clearly described as PvP games, Ie., FPS/MOBA/DOTA and even MMORPGs like EVE, MO and Darkfall, most MMORPGs are a mixture of both PvE and PvP, which are best defined as PvX games.
Coe is a PvX game. It has both PvE and PvP game features. As a matter of fact, by the mere fact that PvP is greatly discouraged, and severely penalized whenever engaged in, that alone would better define CoE as a PvE game with PvP being added simply to add more realism to its world.
What it definitely is not is a PvP game in which dying is rendered irrelevent and insignificant, and in which death counts are an integral part of the game with everyone killing each other willy nilly and respawning only to kill each other again ad nauseum. That would be a more accurate definition of a "PvP game," but that is not what CoE is about, nor is it integral to its game play.
CoE is a PvE game with PvP being a feature possibility, but only if you chose to engage in it. It is, however, discouraged, not encouraged, and even when you engage in it it comes with a heavy price. That doesnt sound like a "PvP game."
It just gets a bit tiresome hearing the PvP-centric crowds that are always quick to claim every game that allows for PvP to be a PvP game when nothing could be further from the truth in most MMORPG games.
MMORPGS are by their very nature predominantly PvE games. PvP is generally just another feature that the game offers to the player base to give it variety in game play.
First let me start off with saying that I don't play a single PVP game at this time. I am not a PVP fan myself. I do enjoy a random arena match or so here or there but no very often. Now with that said.
LaceOpium you try to say every game that has any PVE in it is a PVE game on any forum that talks about it. Pretty sure you tried to claim the same thing with black desert, which is a PVP centric game for endgame activites.
This game by the statements of the developers is an open world PVP game. Trying to say it is anything other than that is just you trying to push your own beliefs onto the game.
Does the game have some interesting PVE aspect yes. Can you stop me from killing you anywhere in the game, no, it is total open world where I can actually take your gear. That in itself is open world PVP.
I am not a fan of open world PVP myself, but I am so tired of seeing people buy games are being sold as PVP then complaining like they didn't know they didn't have a choice in it.
If you do not have a choice in whether to PVP it is a PVP game. If it doesn't have a different server set that is listed as PVE it is a PVP game. Or if the developer actually states multiple times and it is listed on their homepage that it is a PVP game it is a PVP game. Somehow you have a hard time grasping this. Stop trying to tell people that the game is not a PVP based game when it is.
Would the game probably have a great following with a PVE server, more than likely it would flourish as this has some really great ideas in it. But will it have that type of server, so far they have said no.
You state "PvP is greatly discouraged" no PVP is not discouraged, griefing is discouraged, PVP actually has consequences which is a great thing. You can knock a person out or you can actually kill them, you can also get away with it, you are not automatically jailed for doing it.
Here is the developers answer to is this a PVP game:
Q. Is there PvP?
Yeah. Lots. Everywhere. Kingdoms
go to war, assassins wage their silent battles in the night, highwaymen
lay wait in ambush on the unsuspecting passer-by. However, except in
times of war, PvP is illegal, and the penalty is stiff. So while PvP is
possible everywhere, it's highly unlikely around civilized areas.
And here is why they have created penalties:
Q. Griefers. Tell me you've at least eliminated the griefers!
Actually, more or less. In
Chronicles of Elyria, crimes such as attacking other characters is
punishable by time in prison. The more time someone spends in prison,
the shorter their playable lifespan, the more their skills atrophy, and
the less powerful they will ultimately become. So, we've kind of removed
most the incentive around griefing.
So you tell me if I can kill you anywhere I want even with penalties how this isn't a PVP game?
Again I don't even play PVP games but you trying to tell people who are actually looking for a PVE game that this is it is part of the problem. Would a person that likes PVE like myself probably love this game yes. Can I stop people from walking up and killing me in the street and taking my stuff, NO.
As someone who's been following the game since their website only had a single dev diary on it, please quit trying to break this game down into, "PvE and PvP." This is one of the few cases where the two intertwine hand-in-hand. The PvP elements will force all players into playing things safely, and to make smart decisions. However, the PvE elements are equally important, such as hunting and crafting. Whether it be big or small, the actions and playstyles of ALL players will have effects on the world. Also, the repercussions of fighting other players will be risky enough for most to be careful about the way the play, rather than turning everything into a bloodbath (since you actually lose playtime if a Coup de Grace is used upon you).
Hello all, just thought I'd give my perspective here. I don't believe that Chronicles of Elyria is really slanted towards either PvP or PvE. Rather, the game allows you to play in either of these styles, or even others. Many commenters here are quick to saying that it's all black and white. It really depends on how you define PvP or PvE.
Do you mean PvP as in actively trying to kill other players? Sure, there's plenty of that in CoE, but the key word is "trying." Other players wanting to kill you will have to put in a lot of work to single you out and then evading capture after they're successful. There are skills such as the ones in the Bardic skill tree that allow people to better investigate crimes, making it ever so harder for the criminals to completely escape without any punishment.
You could also define PvP as in trying to research certain technologies faster than other players, competing for scientific prestige. There's that too, though it may seem less "hardcore" compared to fighting.
The PvE side of things is similarly non-specific, though there are probably more roles to this than PvP. Gathering, farming, making, selling....I'd recommend on reading this forum post to see what other people are planning to do in-game; note how a lot of people plan to lead peaceful lives and how others are expressing their unique approaches to PvP: https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/The-Tavern/296-Your-Character-Roles
I have never claimed that every game that has any PvE in it is a PvE game. As a matter of fact, I did not even claim this game to be a PvE game. I clearly stated that the game is PvX, which is a point that not only other posters have agreed with in this and other threads, but that the developers, and even yourself claim. Furthermore, my response to any post created regarding this topic has always been in response to the PvP-centric crowd always claiming every game that has PvP in it to be a PvP game, and my opinions in those threads have always been consistent with the points being brought up in this thread. And that is that those games are PvX, but if nothing else, those games are more PvE than they are PvP and I have always posted the reasons why that is the case, as I have in this one.
If you are going to create a wall of text based on my past history on this topic the least you can do is be honest and accurate regarding those accusations. Exaggerations will only serve to show your bias, and bring to question your claim that you are PvE-centric, thereby bringing into question the credibility of your entire post.
The whole premise of your post relies on the repeated references to it being OWPvP, and by offering those examples, automatically coming to the conclusion that this alone makes it PvP-centric. You do that even though I have never denied the game as being OWPvP, making that point totally irrelevant and not worth addressing. The mistake that you, and many PvP-centric players make, is in the belief that just because a game is OWPvP, that alone automatically makes it a PvP-centric game. It doesn't. A game can have OWPvP, and still be predominantly a PvE game. And even if it isn't predominantly a PvE game, if it has a good amount of PvE content, then it is a PvX game, not a PvP-centric game.
Regarding your below copied paragraph, ...
If you do not have a choice in whether to PVP it is a PVP game. If it doesn't have a different server set that is listed as PVE it is a PVP game. Or if the developer actually states multiple times and it is listed on their homepage that it is a PVP game it is a PVP game. Somehow you have a hard time grasping this. Stop trying to tell people that the game is not a PVP based game when it is.
You are wrong!
If the game has considerable PvE content, even though you may not have a choice whether to PvP, that makes it a PvX game, not a PvP game. Why? Because even in games that have PvP, those PvP features can, and often times are, minimized and avoided by players who choose not to engage in it. It has been historically proven that in any game, and this includes PvP-centric games like EVE, that have a measure of PvE content, there will be PvE-centric players who will predominantly engage in PvE content thereby successfully avoiding much of the PvP features of those games. CoE will be no different. That makes CoE a PvX game, not a PvP game.
I don't know why you would go so far as to include those bullet points about the developers answers regarding PvP in your post because they directly contradict your point. I am very happy you did, however, because by doing so you inadvertently make my point without even realizing it. Ie., ...
Here is the developers answer to is this a PVP game:
Q. Is there PvP?
Yeah. Lots. Everywhere. Kingdoms go to war, assassins wage their silent battles in the night, highwaymen lay wait in ambush on the unsuspecting passer-by. However, except in times of war, PvP is illegal, and the penalty is stiff. So while PvP is possible everywhere, it's highly unlikely around civilized areas.
And here is why they have created penalties:
Q. Griefers. Tell me you've at least eliminated the griefers!
Actually, more or less. In Chronicles of Elyria, crimes such as attacking other characters is punishable by time in prison. The more time someone spends in prison, the shorter their playable lifespan, the more their skills atrophy, and the less powerful they will ultimately become. So, we've kind of removed most the incentive around griefing.
Both of those answers support my point of view, not yours. Except in times of war, PvP is illegal, and the penalty is stiff. So while PvP is possible everywhere, it is highly unlikely around civilized areas.
That says it all. In other words, PvP is OPTIONAL. It is illegal except in times of war. And although it is possible, it is highly unlikely around civilized areas.
Who do you think the developers are targeting with those words? Those are exactly the kind of words that PvE players want to hear, and words that a PvP-centric would rather not hear as far as PvP mechanics go in games.
Just because you can't stop a player from coming up to you and killing you, every once in a blue moon, does not make it a PvP game. That can happen in any PvE game featuring PvP. PvP in an MMORPG is a feature offered in a game, not unlike crafting, that gives a game variety. It does not define it. Again, FPS, MOBA, and DOTAs are PvP games. EVE, MO, Darkfall are PvP games. There is a difference. Learn them and educate yourself.
To be honest, I don't even know why I am responding to your post. I guess I am just a glutton for punishment because you make no sense and its obvious you haven't a valid point to make.
Why does this game try to prevent players from killing other players by allowing players to kill other players but with a caveat? Why not just remove that ability completely? It's contradictory, because then they say something like this in their overview:
Will you follow a path of virtue... or something darker?
So they want to allow players to kill each other... but don't do it because you'll be very naughty (do it, do it!). =\
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
Why does this game try to prevent players from killing other players by allowing players to kill other players but with a caveat? Why not just remove that ability completely? It's contradictory, because then they say something like this in their overview:
Will you follow a path of virtue... or something darker?
So they want to allow players to kill each other... but don't do it because you'll be very naughty (do it, do it!). =\
Because it's obviously a game that discourages PvP. They allow for it, giving you the freedom to be naughty if that is your calling, because it is a sandbox. They do not, however, encourage it and if you do engage in it illegally you will get spanked.
I have never claimed that every game that has any PvE in it is a PvE game.
Just one example from your own post history: "BDO can be as predominantly a PvE game as it can be a predominantly PvP
game. Anyone saying that the game is more so one over the other is
simply presenting a biased point of view based on their own game play
preference."
This runs contradictory to what the developers say the game is.
The whole premise of your post relies on the repeated references to it being OWPvP, and by offering those examples, automatically coming to the conclusion that this alone makes it PvP-centric. You do that even though I have never denied the game as being OWPvP, making that point totally irrelevant and not worth addressing. The mistake that you, and every PvP-centric player makes, is in your belief that just because a game is OWPvP, that alone automatically makes it a PvP-centric game.
Actually it does make it a PVP centric game if I cannot choose whether or not to participate. If you are forced into PVP without a choice then yes it makes it a PVP-centric as you like to call them game. No point in arguing this because I have my belief an you have yours. Except in times of war, PvP is illegal, and the penalty is stiff. So while PvP is possible everywhere, it's highly unlikely around civilized areas. This makes you think PVP is optional when even if it isn't war time I could still walk up to you and kill you, this isn't optional.Even though their is a penality and illegal I can still PK you that is not optional.
Just because you can't stop a player from coming up to you and killing you, every once in a blue moon, does not make it a PvP game.
This is what actually makes something a PVP based MMO game, and not a lobby arena game, the ability to kill people without their consent.
My response is in italic up in the previous post.
What is sad is we both like the same type of games it seems PVE based, but to think a game with OWPVP is a PVE based game is just stupid no matter how you look at it. Done responding to this thread now.
Why does this game try to prevent players from killing other players by allowing players to kill other players but with a caveat? Why not just remove that ability completely? It's contradictory, because then they say something like this in their overview:
Will you follow a path of virtue... or something darker?
So they want to allow players to kill each other... but don't do it because you'll be very naughty (do it, do it!). =\
FlyByKnight, the game is not trying to prevent this nor allow that, the game is trying to craft a 10 year story where you, the collective players, are the authors. Yes, the game does allow PvP, unrestricted. And yes, there will be severe penalties for in effect becoming lawless and engaging in wanton grief. But the game is not seeking to favor PvE-centric players or disadvantage PvP-types, it intends to unfold a larger story where sometimes there will be conflict and hostilities and murder and assassination, and where at other times engaing in those things will come with a high risk of shortening your character's lifespan.
The constant attempt to view the CoE effort through the prism of the tired old arguments over PvE vs. PvP will get you nowhere. Some have complained in other threads about development transparency. There is an enormous amount of information that's been released if one cared to look for it. If not, I understand - sometimes there's just not enough hours in the day. But if you can't inform yourself by what's been written, at least retain a bit of skepticism about your opinion when you seek to force the game into molds where it does not fit to perpetuate conversations about it that do not apply.
I have never claimed that every game that has any PvE in it is a PvE game.
Just one example from your own post history: "BDO can be as predominantly a PvE game as it can be a predominantly PvP
game. Anyone saying that the game is more so one over the other is
simply presenting a biased point of view based on their own game play
preference."
This runs contradictory to what the developers say the game is.
The whole premise of your post relies on the repeated references to it being OWPvP, and by offering those examples, automatically coming to the conclusion that this alone makes it PvP-centric. You do that even though I have never denied the game as being OWPvP, making that point totally irrelevant and not worth addressing. The mistake that you, and every PvP-centric player makes, is in your belief that just because a game is OWPvP, that alone automatically makes it a PvP-centric game.
Actually it does make it a PVP centric game if I cannot choose whether or not to participate. If you are forced into PVP without a choice then yes it makes it a PVP-centric as you like to call them game. No point in arguing this because I have my belief an you have yours. Except in times of war, PvP is illegal, and the penalty is stiff. So while PvP is possible everywhere, it's highly unlikely around civilized areas. This makes you think PVP is optional when even if it isn't war time I could still walk up to you and kill you, this isn't optional.Even though their is a penality and illegal I can still PK you that is not optional.
Just because you can't stop a player from coming up to you and killing you, every once in a blue moon, does not make it a PvP game.
This is what actually makes something a PVP based MMO game, and not a lobby arena game, the ability to kill people without their consent.
My response is in italic up in the previous post.
What is sad is we both like the same type of games it seems PVE based, but to think a game with OWPVP is a PVE based game is just stupid no matter how you look at it. Done responding to this thread now.
Again, your post does nothing but confirm what I've been saying all along. Why go through the trouble of researching and posting my post history, when it does nothing but make my case, and contradict yours.
In the above post I clearly stated that BDO is neither a PvE nor a PvP game, it is a PvX game. Regarding the rest of your response, that has been proven thoroughly wrong by not only myself, but by many other posts in this thread, and the developers themselves.
No one has claimed that a game with OWPvP is a PvE based game.
What is this obsession with PvP-centric players always wanting to claim every game that has PvP in it as a PvP game? I am guessing it has something to do with empowering them to tell PvEers to "get out" or "git gud" whenever they question anything PvP related about the game.
If I as a PvE player can move through the open world with no chance of ever being killed by another player then it is a PvE game. If, on the other hand, I can be set upon and killed by other players in the open world it is a PvP game. On this basis CoE is a PvP game.
If I as a PvE player can move through the open world with no chance of ever being killed by another player then it is a PvE game. If, on the other hand, I can be set upon and killed by other players in the open world it is a PvP game. On this basis CoE is a PvP game.
Except that, that basis is wrong. It is pure ignorance to be so stubbornly of that mentality even though that PvP activity is sparse, heavily discouraged, and accompanied with severe penalties, and everything else about the game is heavily PvE activity reliant. It does not surprise me though. I wouldn't expect any different from a PvP-centric player. The inferiority complex built up throughout the years of being second class citizens in the MMORPG genre has fried your minds.
If I as a PvE player can move through the open world with no chance of ever being killed by another player then it is a PvE game. If, on the other hand, I can be set upon and killed by other players in the open world it is a PvP game. On this basis CoE is a PvP game.
Except that, that basis is wrong. It is pure ignorance to be so stubbornly of that mentality even though that PvP activity is sparse, heavily discouraged, and accompanied with severe penalties, and everything else about the game is heavily PvE activity reliant. It does not surprise me though. I wouldn't expect any different from a PvP-centric player. The inferiority complex built up throughout the years of being second class citizens in the MMORPG genre has fried your minds.
ROFLMAO, I am not and never have been a 'PvP centric player' I seldom PvP and only when it is to some extent 'forced' in a game I otherwise like.
It really is this simple, if a player can attack another player at random it is a PvP game. No ifs, no buts, no logic chopping, or talk of consequences, it is a PvP game.
I'm a pve player...but I can tell you that some of my most adrenalin-packed experiences have been when there was a measure of unknown risk. Hiding, escaping, calling friends, yelling, etc...it's good once in a while, but the big problem is that some of us already have a high tension job or life.
We want to play in a peaceful and lovely world...killing random npc's when WE WANT TO. It gives us a sense of power, of decision, that many do not find in the real world.
There are so many factors in real life that are taking away our individual power EVERY day. That's why folks want to DECIDE when and where (if ever) to join the killing fields.
I'm going to play COE. I will be the farmer, crafter and protect myself and my land. If you make MY land a killing field I will not forget and never forgive and I will sic my buddies on you :P
If I as a PvE player can move through the open world with no chance of ever being killed by another player then it is a PvE game. If, on the other hand, I can be set upon and killed by other players in the open world it is a PvP game. On this basis CoE is a PvP game.
Except that, that basis is wrong. It is pure ignorance to be so stubbornly of that mentality even though that PvP activity is sparse, heavily discouraged, and accompanied with severe penalties, and everything else about the game is heavily PvE activity reliant. It does not surprise me though. I wouldn't expect any different from a PvP-centric player. The inferiority complex built up throughout the years of being second class citizens in the MMORPG genre has fried your minds.
ROFLMAO, I am not and never have been a 'PvP centric player' I seldom PvP and only when it is to some extent 'forced' in a game I otherwise like.
It really is this simple, if a player can attack another player at random it is a PvP game. No ifs, no buts, no logic chopping, or talk of consequences, it is a PvP game.
Sure it is. If you say so it must be right, even though game developers themselves say otherwise. Isn't it hilarious all of these people claiming to be PvE-centric, yet their ignorance and stubborn stance on the subject says differently. By that logic every single game with a PvP game play mode is a PvP game. How ridiculous must that sound. No one believes that. Assuming they have some sense, not even the hardiest of the hard-core PvP-centric player would make such a nonsense blanket statement.
If I as a PvE player can move through the open world with no chance of ever being killed by another player then it is a PvE game. If, on the other hand, I can be set upon and killed by other players in the open world it is a PvP game. On this basis CoE is a PvP game.
Except that, that basis is wrong. It is pure ignorance to be so stubbornly of that mentality even though that PvP activity is sparse, heavily discouraged, and accompanied with severe penalties, and everything else about the game is heavily PvE activity reliant. It does not surprise me though. I wouldn't expect any different from a PvP-centric player. The inferiority complex built up throughout the years of being second class citizens in the MMORPG genre has fried your minds.
ROFLMAO, I am not and never have been a 'PvP centric player' I seldom PvP and only when it is to some extent 'forced' in a game I otherwise like.
It really is this simple, if a player can attack another player at random it is a PvP game. No ifs, no buts, no logic chopping, or talk of consequences, it is a PvP game.
Sure it is. If you say so it must be right, even though game developers themselves say otherwise. Isn't it hilarious all of these people claiming to be PvE-centric, yet their ignorance and stubborn stance on the subject says differently. By that logic every single game with a PvP game play mode is a PvP game. How ridiculous must that sound. No one believes that. Not even a PvP-centric player would say such nonsense.
/laughs
So when I said it the first time you considered it obvious that I was a 'PvP centric player' and when I say that I am not and say it a second time you say that 'not even a PvP centric player' would say that. No wonder you laughed.
No matter what the developers claim, if they allow random killing of players by players it is a PvP game.
ROFLMAO, I am not and never have been a 'PvP centric player' I seldom PvP and only when it is to some extent 'forced' in a game I otherwise like.
It really is this simple, if a player can attack another player at random it is a PvP game. No ifs, no buts, no logic chopping, or talk of consequences, it is a PvP game.
Sure it is. If you say so it must be right, even though game developers themselves say otherwise. Isn't it hilarious all of these people claiming to be PvE-centric, yet their ignorance and stubborn stance on the subject says differently. By that logic every single game with a PvP game play mode is a PvP game. How ridiculous must that sound. No one believes that. Not even a PvP-centric player would say such nonsense.
/laughs
So when I said it the first time you considered it obvious that I was a 'PvP centric player' and when I say that I am not and say it a second time you say that 'not even a PvP centric player' would say that. No wonder you laughed.
No matter what the developers claim, if they allow random killing of players by players it is a PvP game.
When you said it the first time I didn't consider it obvious that you were a PvP centric player. I considered you a liar. And when you said you weren't the second time, I considered you a lying PvP-centric player with no sense. That's why I laughed. And now that you double down on the nonsense talk by claiming you know better than developers themselves, I consider you a lying PvP-centric player, with no sense, and a narcissist to boot. Now it's not even funny, it's just plain sad.
ROFLMAO, I am not and never have been a 'PvP centric player' I seldom PvP and only when it is to some extent 'forced' in a game I otherwise like.
It really is this simple, if a player can attack another player at random it is a PvP game. No ifs, no buts, no logic chopping, or talk of consequences, it is a PvP game.
Sure it is. If you say so it must be right, even though game developers themselves say otherwise. Isn't it hilarious all of these people claiming to be PvE-centric, yet their ignorance and stubborn stance on the subject says differently. By that logic every single game with a PvP game play mode is a PvP game. How ridiculous must that sound. No one believes that. Not even a PvP-centric player would say such nonsense.
/laughs
So when I said it the first time you considered it obvious that I was a 'PvP centric player' and when I say that I am not and say it a second time you say that 'not even a PvP centric player' would say that. No wonder you laughed.
No matter what the developers claim, if they allow random killing of players by players it is a PvP game.
When you said it the first time I didn't consider it obvious that you were a PvP centric player. I considered you a liar. And when you said you weren't the second time, I considered you a lying PvP-centric player with no sense. That's why I laughed. And now that you double down on the nonsense talk by claiming you know better than developers themselves, I consider you a lying PvP-centric player, with no sense, and a narcissist to boot. Now it's not even funny, it's just plain sad.
There is a line, and it is a clear line, once you cross it then you have a PvP game. The line is this: can a player randomly kill another player?
CoE has crossed this line, therefore it is a PvP game.
Now you can continue to make personal attacks and/or appeals to authority but you are only weakening your own case.
So when I said it the first time you considered it obvious that I was a 'PvP centric player' and when I say that I am not and say it a second time you say that 'not even a PvP centric player' would say that. No wonder you laughed.
No matter what the developers claim, if they allow random killing of players by players it is a PvP game.
When you said it the first time I didn't consider it obvious that you were a PvP centric player. I considered you a liar. And when you said you weren't the second time, I considered you a lying PvP-centric player with no sense. That's why I laughed. And now that you double down on the nonsense talk by claiming you know better than developers themselves, I consider you a lying PvP-centric player, with no sense, and a narcissist to boot. Now it's not even funny, it's just plain sad.
There is a line, and it is a clear line, once you cross it then you have a PvP game. The line is this: can a player randomly kill another player?
CoE has crossed this line, therefore it is a PvP game.
Now you can continue to make personal attacks and/or appeals to authority but you are only weakening your own case.
They are not personal attacks, they are accurate observations based on your stubborn and unrelenting stance in this matter. Anyone else would arrive at the same conclusion.
CoE is a PvX game. This has been confirmed by the developers themselves. It is not debatable. You'd do well to quit denying the obvious. That said, its not worth going round in circles over. Believe what you want to believe. I will let you be. You are entitled to your own opinions.
I am just learning about this game, so excuse my ignorance. I did some quick brushing up on their website and the forums...but a lot of what I am reading is design fluff. I haven't really been on this site nearly as much as I used to as I focus on Virtual Reality and the Witcher 3. Anyway, one of the reasons I decided to ignore Black Desert is that in the end, it's a game with poor PVE elements (story and questing wise) and is more slanted toward crafters and PVP (I think). What is the difference between Black Desert and COE in ensuring that the PVE crowd will be happy other than randomly killing monsters or crafting? A lot of PVE folks don't get excited about crafting and they don't get excited about being forced to PVP. Story is important to most PVE folks and before I back a kick starter, I need more details as to how this game will or will not accommodate that very large PVE MMO population.
EDIT: In all fairness to Black Desert...I'm downloading it now with one of the free keys I just obtained which was coincidental since I mentioned it and never played it :-) lol
Think of CoE as an RTS, even griefers will need farmers, miners and others to do the day to day work.
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
People are trying to fit this game into narrow paradigms like "pve game" or "pvp game" and all i can think of is this picture
You see one part of the game and assume the whole thing fits a mental schema of something you've previously encountered.
None of you have previously encountered a game quite like this.
This game is about realism, consequences, and the organic ebb and flow of a fleshed-out world that requires many different parts to work in synergy: farmers need to supply crops for bakers to feed the soldiers that guard the town and the hunters that kill the wildlife that inhabits the forests that are cut down by the loggers who supply the builders that build up a town that houses a king which oversees a kingdom that trades with another kingdom.
It goes on and on, and it requires things like pvp and pve but it requires a lot of other things that don't fit so neatly into these labels.
As for pvp - This game punishes reckless pvp; mass slaughter and unchecked chaos -- but it does not punish strategic pvp. That does not mean it is a pvp or pve game. It simply means you need to put more thought into your actions than in past mmos.
So when I said it the first time you considered it obvious that I was a 'PvP centric player' and when I say that I am not and say it a second time you say that 'not even a PvP centric player' would say that. No wonder you laughed.
No matter what the developers claim, if they allow random killing of players by players it is a PvP game.
When you said it the first time I didn't consider it obvious that you were a PvP centric player. I considered you a liar. And when you said you weren't the second time, I considered you a lying PvP-centric player with no sense. That's why I laughed. And now that you double down on the nonsense talk by claiming you know better than developers themselves, I consider you a lying PvP-centric player, with no sense, and a narcissist to boot. Now it's not even funny, it's just plain sad.
There is a line, and it is a clear line, once you cross it then you have a PvP game. The line is this: can a player randomly kill another player?
CoE has crossed this line, therefore it is a PvP game.
Now you can continue to make personal attacks and/or appeals to authority but you are only weakening your own case.
They are not personal attacks, they are accurate observations based on your stubborn and unrelenting stance in this matter. Anyone else would arrive at the same conclusion.
CoE is a PvX game. This has been confirmed by the developers themselves. It is not debatable. You'd do well to quit denying the obvious. That said, its not worth going round in circles over. Believe what you want to believe. I will let you be. You are entitled to your own opinions.
... and yet you still continue to use words to ascribe emotions to me, a personal attack. Again you make an appeal to authority, the developers, even though they obviously have an agenda to appeal to a wide audience, a legitimate agenda, but not a neutral authority. Now you add another rhetorical flourish, by appealing to 'anyone else would' sophistry at its worst.
People are trying to fit this game into narrow paradigms like "pve game" or "pvp game" and all i can think of is this picture
You see one part of the game and assume the whole thing fits a mental schema of something you've previously encountered.
None of you have previously encountered a game quite like this.
This game is about realism, consequences, and the organic ebb and flow of a fleshed-out world that requires many different parts to work in synergy: farmers need to supply crops for bakers to feed the soldiers that guard the town and the hunters that kill the wildlife that inhabits the forests that are cut down by the loggers who supply the builders that build up a town that houses a king which oversees a kingdom that trades with another kingdom.
It goes on and on, and it requires things like pvp and pve but it requires a lot of other things that don't fit so neatly into these labels.
As for pvp - This game punishes reckless pvp; mass slaughter and unchecked chaos -- but it does not punish strategic pvp. That does not mean it is a pvp or pve game. It simply means you need to put more thought into your actions than in past mmos.
You make several points about the game itself, probably well informed points but the questions remain.
Does the game allow a player to randomly kill another player? Do the developers suggest players take steps to limit their losses from other players looting them?
Yes to both? Then it is a PvP game, however enjoyable or well made it turns out to be.
Comments
Most mechanics in COE are there to serve in the larger picture of story progression of both the player's personal story as well as the overarching story within the game. PvP and PVE are not exempt of this, both exist in the game but both serve specific purposes. PVP exists in the form of banditry, assassinations, wars for territory/resources, player run events like gladiatorial arenas or fit pits, jobs like mercenary/sellswords/guards, player "bosses" and more - PVE exists for along the same lines, environmental threats against Elyria that the players must overcome for one reason or another. I don't think Soulbound is trying to sell either as being the main draw, they are trying to sell the idea that players create their own stories and experiences with the tools in COE that could be PVE or PVP related.
Also, quick note on looting as there has been some talk about it: there are three kinds of looting, inventory loot, quick loot and corpse loot.
Quick Loot: While someone is incapacitated, players will only have time to grab a few quick things; specifically, any money in the player’s purse or items that had been in their hands (weapons, animals that they may have been riding or guiding including pack animals). You will not have time to unbuckle anything (belt & scabbard), remove any armor, or rummage their backpack.
Inventory Loot: When someone is Spirit Walking, you have a bit more time to grab items off their person. In addition to quick loot options, players may also unbuckle things (take their sword & scabbard), remove any rings or other jewelry or rummage through their backpack. They may not take clothing.
Corpse Loot: The final form of looting is called Corpse Looting. Whenever you come across a corpse, you can take all items from the corpse which is not just limited to the items the corpse is wearing.
LaceOpium you try to say every game that has any PVE in it is a PVE game on any forum that talks about it. Pretty sure you tried to claim the same thing with black desert, which is a PVP centric game for endgame activites.
This game by the statements of the developers is an open world PVP game. Trying to say it is anything other than that is just you trying to push your own beliefs onto the game.
Does the game have some interesting PVE aspect yes. Can you stop me from killing you anywhere in the game, no, it is total open world where I can actually take your gear. That in itself is open world PVP.
I am not a fan of open world PVP myself, but I am so tired of seeing people buy games are being sold as PVP then complaining like they didn't know they didn't have a choice in it.
If you do not have a choice in whether to PVP it is a PVP game. If it doesn't have a different server set that is listed as PVE it is a PVP game. Or if the developer actually states multiple times and it is listed on their homepage that it is a PVP game it is a PVP game. Somehow you have a hard time grasping this. Stop trying to tell people that the game is not a PVP based game when it is.
Would the game probably have a great following with a PVE server, more than likely it would flourish as this has some really great ideas in it. But will it have that type of server, so far they have said no.
You state "PvP is greatly discouraged" no PVP is not discouraged, griefing is discouraged, PVP actually has consequences which is a great thing. You can knock a person out or you can actually kill them, you can also get away with it, you are not automatically jailed for doing it.
Here is the developers answer to is this a PVP game:
- Q. Is there PvP?
- Yeah. Lots. Everywhere. Kingdoms
go to war, assassins wage their silent battles in the night, highwaymen
lay wait in ambush on the unsuspecting passer-by. However, except in
times of war, PvP is illegal, and the penalty is stiff. So while PvP is
possible everywhere, it's highly unlikely around civilized areas.
And here is why they have created penalties:So you tell me if I can kill you anywhere I want even with penalties how this isn't a PVP game?
Again I don't even play PVP games but you trying to tell people who are actually looking for a PVE game that this is it is part of the problem. Would a person that likes PVE like myself probably love this game yes. Can I stop people from walking up and killing me in the street and taking my stuff, NO.
There Is Always Hope!
Do you mean PvP as in actively trying to kill other players? Sure, there's plenty of that in CoE, but the key word is "trying." Other players wanting to kill you will have to put in a lot of work to single you out and then evading capture after they're successful. There are skills such as the ones in the Bardic skill tree that allow people to better investigate crimes, making it ever so harder for the criminals to completely escape without any punishment.
You could also define PvP as in trying to research certain technologies faster than other players, competing for scientific prestige. There's that too, though it may seem less "hardcore" compared to fighting.
The PvE side of things is similarly non-specific, though there are probably more roles to this than PvP. Gathering, farming, making, selling....I'd recommend on reading this forum post to see what other people are planning to do in-game; note how a lot of people plan to lead peaceful lives and how others are expressing their unique approaches to PvP:
https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/The-Tavern/296-Your-Character-Roles
I have never claimed that every game that has any PvE in it is a PvE game. As a matter of fact, I did not even claim this game to be a PvE game. I clearly stated that the game is PvX, which is a point that not only other posters have agreed with in this and other threads, but that the developers, and even yourself claim. Furthermore, my response to any post created regarding this topic has always been in response to the PvP-centric crowd always claiming every game that has PvP in it to be a PvP game, and my opinions in those threads have always been consistent with the points being brought up in this thread. And that is that those games are PvX, but if nothing else, those games are more PvE than they are PvP and I have always posted the reasons why that is the case, as I have in this one.
If you are going to create a wall of text based on my past history on this topic the least you can do is be honest and accurate regarding those accusations. Exaggerations will only serve to show your bias, and bring to question your claim that you are PvE-centric, thereby bringing into question the credibility of your entire post.
The whole premise of your post relies on the repeated references to it being OWPvP, and by offering those examples, automatically coming to the conclusion that this alone makes it PvP-centric. You do that even though I have never denied the game as being OWPvP, making that point totally irrelevant and not worth addressing. The mistake that you, and many PvP-centric players make, is in the belief that just because a game is OWPvP, that alone automatically makes it a PvP-centric game. It doesn't. A game can have OWPvP, and still be predominantly a PvE game. And even if it isn't predominantly a PvE game, if it has a good amount of PvE content, then it is a PvX game, not a PvP-centric game.
Regarding your below copied paragraph, ...
If you do not have a choice in whether to PVP it is a PVP game. If it doesn't have a different server set that is listed as PVE it is a PVP game. Or if the developer actually states multiple times and it is listed on their homepage that it is a PVP game it is a PVP game. Somehow you have a hard time grasping this. Stop trying to tell people that the game is not a PVP based game when it is.
You are wrong!
If the game has considerable PvE content, even though you may not have a choice whether to PvP, that makes it a PvX game, not a PvP game. Why? Because even in games that have PvP, those PvP features can, and often times are, minimized and avoided by players who choose not to engage in it. It has been historically proven that in any game, and this includes PvP-centric games like EVE, that have a measure of PvE content, there will be PvE-centric players who will predominantly engage in PvE content thereby successfully avoiding much of the PvP features of those games. CoE will be no different. That makes CoE a PvX game, not a PvP game.
I don't know why you would go so far as to include those bullet points about the developers answers regarding PvP in your post because they directly contradict your point. I am very happy you did, however, because by doing so you inadvertently make my point without even realizing it. Ie., ...
Here is the developers answer to is this a PVP game:
- Q. Is there PvP?
- Yeah. Lots. Everywhere. Kingdoms go to war, assassins wage their silent battles in the night, highwaymen lay wait in ambush on the unsuspecting passer-by. However, except in times of war, PvP is illegal, and the penalty is stiff. So while PvP is possible everywhere, it's highly unlikely around civilized areas.
And here is why they have created penalties:Both of those answers support my point of view, not yours.
Except in times of war, PvP is illegal, and the penalty is stiff. So while PvP is possible everywhere, it is highly unlikely around civilized areas.
That says it all. In other words, PvP is OPTIONAL. It is illegal except in times of war. And although it is possible, it is highly unlikely around civilized areas.
Who do you think the developers are targeting with those words? Those are exactly the kind of words that PvE players want to hear, and words that a PvP-centric would rather not hear as far as PvP mechanics go in games.
Just because you can't stop a player from coming up to you and killing you, every once in a blue moon, does not make it a PvP game. That can happen in any PvE game featuring PvP. PvP in an MMORPG is a feature offered in a game, not unlike crafting, that gives a game variety. It does not define it. Again, FPS, MOBA, and DOTAs are PvP games. EVE, MO, Darkfall are PvP games. There is a difference. Learn them and educate yourself.
To be honest, I don't even know why I am responding to your post. I guess I am just a glutton for punishment because you make no sense and its obvious you haven't a valid point to make.
Will you follow a path of virtue... or something darker?
So they want to allow players to kill each other... but don't do it because you'll be very naughty (do it, do it!). =\
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Because it's obviously a game that discourages PvP. They allow for it, giving you the freedom to be naughty if that is your calling, because it is a sandbox. They do not, however, encourage it and if you do engage in it illegally you will get spanked.
What is sad is we both like the same type of games it seems PVE based, but to think a game with OWPVP is a PVE based game is just stupid no matter how you look at it. Done responding to this thread now.
FlyByKnight, the game is not trying to prevent this nor allow that, the game is trying to craft a 10 year story where you, the collective players, are the authors. Yes, the game does allow PvP, unrestricted. And yes, there will be severe penalties for in effect becoming lawless and engaging in wanton grief. But the game is not seeking to favor PvE-centric players or disadvantage PvP-types, it intends to unfold a larger story where sometimes there will be conflict and hostilities and murder and assassination, and where at other times engaing in those things will come with a high risk of shortening your character's lifespan.
The constant attempt to view the CoE effort through the prism of the tired old arguments over PvE vs. PvP will get you nowhere. Some have complained in other threads about development transparency. There is an enormous amount of information that's been released if one cared to look for it. If not, I understand - sometimes there's just not enough hours in the day. But if you can't inform yourself by what's been written, at least retain a bit of skepticism about your opinion when you seek to force the game into molds where it does not fit to perpetuate conversations about it that do not apply.
J
Again, your post does nothing but confirm what I've been saying all along. Why go through the trouble of researching and posting my post history, when it does nothing but make my case, and contradict yours.
In the above post I clearly stated that BDO is neither a PvE nor a PvP game, it is a PvX game. Regarding the rest of your response, that has been proven thoroughly wrong by not only myself, but by many other posts in this thread, and the developers themselves.
No one has claimed that a game with OWPvP is a PvE based game.
What is this obsession with PvP-centric players always wanting to claim every game that has PvP in it as a PvP game? I am guessing it has something to do with empowering them to tell PvEers to "get out" or "git gud" whenever they question anything PvP related about the game.
Except that, that basis is wrong. It is pure ignorance to be so stubbornly of that mentality even though that PvP activity is sparse, heavily discouraged, and accompanied with severe penalties, and everything else about the game is heavily PvE activity reliant. It does not surprise me though. I wouldn't expect any different from a PvP-centric player. The inferiority complex built up throughout the years of being second class citizens in the MMORPG genre has fried your minds.
It really is this simple, if a player can attack another player at random it is a PvP game. No ifs, no buts, no logic chopping, or talk of consequences, it is a PvP game.
We want to play in a peaceful and lovely world...killing random npc's when WE WANT TO. It gives us a sense of power, of decision, that many do not find in the real world.
There are so many factors in real life that are taking away our individual power EVERY day. That's why folks want to DECIDE when and where (if ever) to join the killing fields.
I'm going to play COE. I will be the farmer, crafter and protect myself and my land. If you make MY land a killing field I will not forget and never forgive and I will sic my buddies on you :P
*Monkeykisses*
Sure it is. If you say so it must be right, even though game developers themselves say otherwise. Isn't it hilarious all of these people claiming to be PvE-centric, yet their ignorance and stubborn stance on the subject says differently. By that logic every single game with a PvP game play mode is a PvP game. How ridiculous must that sound. No one believes that. Assuming they have some sense, not even the hardiest of the hard-core PvP-centric player would make such a nonsense blanket statement.
/laughs
No matter what the developers claim, if they allow random killing of players by players it is a PvP game.
When you said it the first time I didn't consider it obvious that you were a PvP centric player. I considered you a liar. And when you said you weren't the second time, I considered you a lying PvP-centric player with no sense. That's why I laughed. And now that you double down on the nonsense talk by claiming you know better than developers themselves, I consider you a lying PvP-centric player, with no sense, and a narcissist to boot. Now it's not even funny, it's just plain sad.
CoE has crossed this line, therefore it is a PvP game.
Now you can continue to make personal attacks and/or appeals to authority but you are only weakening your own case.
They are not personal attacks, they are accurate observations based on your stubborn and unrelenting stance in this matter. Anyone else would arrive at the same conclusion.
CoE is a PvX game. This has been confirmed by the developers themselves. It is not debatable. You'd do well to quit denying the obvious. That said, its not worth going round in circles over. Believe what you want to believe. I will let you be. You are entitled to your own opinions.
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
You see one part of the game and assume the whole thing fits a mental schema of something you've previously encountered.
None of you have previously encountered a game quite like this.
This game is about realism, consequences, and the organic ebb and flow of a fleshed-out world that requires many different parts to work in synergy: farmers need to supply crops for bakers to feed the soldiers that guard the town and the hunters that kill the wildlife that inhabits the forests that are cut down by the loggers who supply the builders that build up a town that houses a king which oversees a kingdom that trades with another kingdom.
It goes on and on, and it requires things like pvp and pve but it requires a lot of other things that don't fit so neatly into these labels.
As for pvp - This game punishes reckless pvp; mass slaughter and unchecked chaos -- but it does not punish strategic pvp. That does not mean it is a pvp or pve game. It simply means you need to put more thought into your actions than in past mmos.
Care to deal with my actual argument?
You make several points about the game itself, probably well informed points but the questions remain.
Does the game allow a player to randomly kill another player?
Do the developers suggest players take steps to limit their losses from other players looting them?
Yes to both?
Then it is a PvP game, however enjoyable or well made it turns out to be.