Refund policy

Franciscourant

Many studios that are crowdfunding their projects allow backers to get a full refund on their pledge. CSE (Camelot Unchained) and ACE (Crowfall) for examples have been doing ‘no questions asked’ package refund for a long time after their Kickstarter campaign (it's still the case for CSE at least until Beta begins).

Have Soulbound Studios discussed about their refund policy?

whilan

Franciscourant said:

Many studios that are crowdfunding their projects allow backers to get a full refund on their pledge. CSE (Camelot Unchained) and ACE (Crowfall) for examples have been doing ‘no questions asked’ package refund for a long time after their Kickstarter campaign (it's still the case for CSE at least until Beta begins).

Have Soulbound Studios discussed about their refund policy?

I'd have to look but at least for the next 18 days or so, you could just pull your pledge from kickstarter (pretty much the same thing)

Franciscourant

whilan said:

Franciscourant said:

Many studios that are crowdfunding their projects allow backers to get a full refund on their pledge. CSE (Camelot Unchained) and ACE (Crowfall) for examples have been doing ‘no questions asked’ package refund for a long time after their Kickstarter campaign (it's still the case for CSE at least until Beta begins).

Have Soulbound Studios discussed about their refund policy?

I'd have to look but at least for the next 18 days or so, you could just pull your pledge from kickstarter (pretty much the same thing)

Yea, I'm aware that we can cancel our pledge on Kickstarter, what I'm wondering is what is the refund policy of Soulbound studios after the Kickstarter campaign has ended. I appreciate the answer anyway!

Void425

There refund policy is, No Refunds unless you have very high charisma and fame with there faction.  

If they start refunding people's money they will not be able to complete the game which is the whole point of doing a kickstarter campaign.   Kickstarting if a pledge not a purchase.

When they start selling the game as a Pre-Purchase then they may allow refunds if you have not used any of the perks. 

olepi

Faithless people that would donate to a kickstarter, and then take it away again.

Franciscourant

As I mentioned above, many studios refunded or still refund the pledges of their backers, and as far as I know it hasn't jeopardized their projects, quite the opposite.

Having a clear refund policy ensures that backers can get their money back in the case that the developers aren't fulfilling their promises.

whilan

Franciscourant said:

As I mentioned above, many studios refunded or still refund the pledges of their backers, and as far as I know it hasn't jeopardized their projects, quite the opposite.

Having a clear refund policy ensures that backers can get their money back in the case that the developers aren't fulfilling their promises.

Maybe bring this up to them in an IRC, or forum post? beyond that the only thing i can think of is contact them by E-mail and request the refund. At this point it will be up to them to decide if your claim is worthy enough.

I took a quick search and didn't come back with anything, so talking to them about it might be a good step.

Franciscourant

whilan said:

Franciscourant said:

As I mentioned above, many studios refunded or still refund the pledges of their backers, and as far as I know it hasn't jeopardized their projects, quite the opposite.

Having a clear refund policy ensures that backers can get their money back in the case that the developers aren't fulfilling their promises.

Maybe bring this up to them in an IRC, or forum post? beyond that the only thing i can think of is contact them by E-mail and request the refund. At this point it will be up to them to decide if your claim is worthy enough.

I took a quick search and didn't come back with anything, so talking to them about it might be a good step.

I understand that the refund requests will be made via emails. What I'm asking however is what is the stance of Soulbound Studios about refunds after the Kickstarter ends. Will they allow them unconditionally, like many studios are doing, or under certain conditions (catastrophic events) or not at all.

I'm not visiting IRC nor the forums much. Maybe someone else read about this subject in the past! Thanks for searching.

Adjuvant1

There is not a CoE ToS yet, only a ToU for the website. Soulbound Studio LLC does not currently collect income which can be refunded. I don't think there's a way to see what the ToS will be subsequent to the kickstarter campaign, unless you're in contact with Jeromy Walsh.

GrumpyHobbit

Refund policy in ANY investment including game development is...

If you can't afford to lose it don't spend it

Enter into any investment with the full knowledge you may not get a return on your investment and you will never get annoyed when that investment doesn't work out. 

If you do not have the money or are uncertain just wait till full release.

That will save you (and us because it usually turns into a series of whinny posts on the forums about how someone else is to blame for not being able to afford to waste money on an investment) both the time and the money. 

kitarad

It's a catch 22 .See they don't have enough money hence the kickstarter so they use the money then you ask for it back. Where do they actually get the money to pay you back ?

kjempff

What is up with all these refund posts on kickstarter projects. You are not buying a product that can be returned, you are donating money to a project..an idea, so that a group of people can finance the production of that idea. Once that money has been spent on salaries and other stuff, it is not fair or valid to ask them to pay you back (with other peoples donations).

Even if you get a promise of something if the project succeed, it is still not a buy - That is defined as return of INVESTMENT. 

scorpex-x

Franciscourant said:

Many studios that are crowdfunding their projects allow backers to get a full refund on their pledge. CSE (Camelot Unchained) and ACE (Crowfall) for examples have been doing ‘no questions asked’ package refund for a long time after their Kickstarter campaign (it's still the case for CSE at least until Beta begins).

Have Soulbound Studios discussed about their refund policy?

If you donate money you should not be allowed to get it refunded, they pay wages from that money. 

Ramajama

I am surprised to hear that other projects do that. Seems kind of contradictory and hopefully
Soulbound will not offer one. 

It just hurts other backers essentially. 

Franciscourant

olepi said:

Faithless people that would donate to a kickstarter, and then take it away again.

I guess that people generally donate money with the expectations that:
- the developers will put this money (almost) entirely on the development of the game
- the developers will remain transparent and maintain the channels of communication
- the backers will get the rewards they've pledged for
- the backers will have a game to play in a reasonable time frame (based on estimations given by the studio)
- the game at launch will resemble to what was presented before and during the Kickstarter

The refund policy usually is a safeguard that ensures that, in the case of major issues with the project (development is canceled, unreasonable delays, extreme changes in the design, etc.), the backers have a recourse to at least get a part of the money back.

Kyleran

You shouldn't even consider asking for your KS "donation" back even if the devs spend it all on broads, booze, and blow. 

If this bothers you, don't donate, especially to "sketchy" development projects. (not implying this one is btw)

Drakenhoff

My money for a kickstarter would be a gamble that I expect to lose but be happy when I don't. Like playing the lottery really

Octagon7711

kitarad said:

It's a catch 22 .See they don't have enough money hence the kickstarter so they use the money then you ask for it back. Where do they actually get the money to pay you back ?

The money's not instantly spent.  It's in the bank and used for expenses and they have a reserve for emergencies, unexpected expenses, salaries, and incidentals.  Standard business practice if they're legit.

Best thing to do is email them and ask, or bring it up in their official forum or both.

Refunds should not be totally out of the question anyway.  The finished game could be completely different then the proposal.  Right now everything is mostly theory and even the Devs don't know what changes will need to made after players start finding exploits and ways around their system.  

k61977

Personally I feel if you give to something like this then you are not entitled to a refund unless they start doing shady things like Star Citizen did.  As long as they keep there promises and don't change the entire game from what they advertised in the kickstarter you shouldn't get anything. 

If you need your money that bad that you can't count on losing whatever you gave you shouldn't be donating to kickstarters to begin with and probably should find another hobby as gaming is an expensive hobby.

Secondly asking about refunds before hand shows you probably don't want to give to begin with so why would you?

CrazKanuk

Franciscourant said:

olepi said:

Faithless people that would donate to a kickstarter, and then take it away again.

I guess that people generally donate money with the expectations that:
- the developers will put this money (almost) entirely on the development of the game
- the developers will remain transparent and maintain the channels of communication
- the backers will get the rewards they've pledged for
- the backers will have a game to play in a reasonable time frame (based on estimations given by the studio)
- the game at launch will resemble to what was presented before and during the Kickstarter

The refund policy usually is a safeguard that ensures that, in the case of major issues with the project (development is canceled, unreasonable delays, extreme changes in the design, etc.), the backers have a recourse to at least get a part of the money back.

If development is cancelled there won't be any money to get back. 

In all honesty, I'm not a fan on offering refunds for a crowdfunding campaign. Some will do it as a gesture of good will, but if you have reservations about it, I would say wait until it releases. PayPal just recently stated they will no longer be processing refunds or chargebacks for crowdfunding payments, so I think you will start to see these projects tighten up. 

I can understand what you're saying, and I agree that it's a nice gesture, but it ultimately hampers the development of the project so, again, I would no to refunds. 

As far as your other concerns, if you're honestly concerned about the direction of the game, go above and beyond the crowdfunding process and offer a more substantial funding amount (hundreds of thousands of dollars) in order to have a say in how funds are allocated, etc. There are plenty of crowdfunded games that secure secondary funding, so if you do this, you could have more say in how the game is made. 

lunawisp

I haven't seen anything regarding refunds. You'll have to ask Soulbound Studios.

Personally, I see a kickstarter pledge as a donation or a gift with the expectation that the recipient uses it in a way they've promised to do so. If they choose to do otherwise, that's their call - it's a risk you take when you 'give' money away...you lose control of it.

Franciscourant

GrumpyHobbit said:

Refund policy in ANY investment including game development is...

If you can't afford to lose it don't spend it

Enter into any investment with the full knowledge you may not get a return on your investment and you will never get annoyed when that investment doesn't work out. 

If you do not have the money or are uncertain just wait till full release.

That will save you (and us because it usually turns into a series of whinny posts on the forums about how someone else is to blame for not being able to afford to waste money on an investment) both the time and the money. 

I agree that those who can't afford it shouldn't put money on a Kickstarter project and wait until the game release to purchase it.

Backing a project on Kickstarter is very different than investing money: no return on investment, restriction on sell/trade of the assets and account (often prohibited), no or few laws and organizations regulating the activity and protecting the backers, no or few recourse for the backers in case of fraud, major delays or cancellation, etc.

GrumpyHobbit

Franciscourant said:

GrumpyHobbit said:

Refund policy in ANY investment including game development is...

If you can't afford to lose it don't spend it

Enter into any investment with the full knowledge you may not get a return on your investment and you will never get annoyed when that investment doesn't work out. 

If you do not have the money or are uncertain just wait till full release.

That will save you (and us because it usually turns into a series of whinny posts on the forums about how someone else is to blame for not being able to afford to waste money on an investment) both the time and the money. 

I agree that those who can't afford it shouldn't put money on a Kickstarter project and wait until the game release to purchase it.

Backing a project on Kickstarter is very different than investing money: no return on investment, restriction on sell/trade of the assets and account (often prohibited), no or few laws and organizations regulating the activity and protecting the backers, no or few recourse for the backers in case of fraud, major delays or cancellation, etc.

As I said, if you don't want to or can't invest then no one is forcing you. 

Wait till it comes out of you are risk averse. 

Franciscourant

kitarad said:

It's a catch 22 .See they don't have enough money hence the kickstarter so they use the money then you ask for it back. Where do they actually get the money to pay you back ?

The money is supposed to be used to pay for the employees, technology and other expenses throughout the entire development. If nothing dramatic happens in the development and they keep getting money from investors / backers, I see no reason for backers to ask refund en masse, so it shouldn't be an issue at all to refund a few people from time to time.

If we take Camelot Unchained as example, they've the "no question asked" refund policy since years now, if I'm correct, and they still have money available to offer refund to their backers. Same thing for Crowfall when they had it available (months after Alpha testers got to test the game every week).  

Octagon7711

Agreed. That's what I'm doing.  Just following and waiting for a hands on experience before committing cash.

Franciscourant

kjempff said:

What is up with all these refund posts on kickstarter projects. You are not buying a product that can be returned, you are donating money to a project..an idea, so that a group of people can finance the production of that idea. Once that money has been spent on salaries and other stuff, it is not fair or valid to ask them to pay you back (with other peoples donations).

Even if you get a promise of something if the project succeed, it is still not a buy - That is defined as return of INVESTMENT. 

It's usually not when there's no money left in the bank account that the backers get refunded.

I think it's fair to ask for a refund in certain circumstances: fraud, major shift in the design (i.e. from a MMORPG to an arena game), developers go silent for months, etc.

The refund policy usually helps the backers to get a portion of the money back in case of major troubles, since once it's added to the Terms of Service, it has legal implications.