However as you OP ( SEANMCAD ) said last week - in the other thread you started - the sale of Steam Machines hasn't taken off.
.....
And I'd say the reason for that is that it's a third-party box. Consoles, for instance, are loss leaders and depend on games to make the company money. A steam machine is, essentially, a console. So, it's my belief that if Valve wants the Steam Machines to "take off" they are going to have to figure out how to get the box prices to a $400 level or less. Otherwise, it's explaining to Joe Consumer about how a Steam Machine is more valuable than a console, for one, and more valuable than his PC (that can already play most games he wants). People generally don't make their lives more difficult or more complicated for shits and giggles
Honestly, if Valve could release a $200 Steam Machine that is of high quality, they would kill it. However, I get the feeling they aren't confident in their ability to get the necessary attachment to justify the loss. That's even taking into consideration the massive library of unplayed games that most steam people have lol. +
Gabe Newell's - The Future of Gaming talk was 2013.
A better title for the talk might have been "How the Future of Gaming could look and how it will be much better for Valve if it does".
However as you OP ( SEANMCAD ) said last week - in the other thread you started - the sale of Steam Machines hasn't taken off.
And so I wonder about Valve commitment to Steam OS. Companies do abandon things that don't come to pass. And maybe they are going to focus on their "mobile" apps - which have been downloaded tens of millions of times. Whether that will prove profitable is another matter - they face many of the same issues they face in the PC game space: publishers selling direct (Origin etc.), multiple competitors. At least they have a presence though - unlike consoles.
I dont understand your point.
Yes of course I said just last week that the sales of Steam hasnt taken off.
why?
BECAUSE
OF
VULKAN
Vulkan is a OpenGL project that is co-created with Valve. In fact it is the cornerstone of all the Linux work they are doing.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
However as you OP ( SEANMCAD ) said last week - in the other thread you started - the sale of Steam Machines hasn't taken off.
.....
And I'd say the reason for that is that it's a third-party box. Consoles, for instance, are loss leaders and depend on games to make the company money. A steam machine is, essentially, a console. So, it's my belief that if Valve wants the Steam Machines to "take off" they are going to have to figure out how to get the box prices to a $400 level or less. Otherwise, it's explaining to Joe Consumer about how a Steam Machine is more valuable than a console, for one, and more valuable than his PC (that can already play most games he wants). People generally don't make their lives more difficult or more complicated for shits and giggles
Honestly, if Valve could release a $200 Steam Machine that is of high quality, they would kill it. However, I get the feeling they aren't confident in their ability to get the necessary attachment to justify the loss. That's even taking into consideration the massive library of unplayed games that most steam people have lol. +
oh my god
the Reason Steam Machines havent taken off is because every single game is slower on Steam Machine then the same Windows PC.
why?
BECAUSE VULKAN ISNT OUT UNTIL NOW
but wait? tell me more about this Vulkan project that Valve has been working on directly...what? Its faster using Doom on a 1080 GTX than DX12? how can that be? would that make it the first time in OpenGL history that a game is faster than DX12? could it have anything at all whatsover ever to do with Valves commitment to the platform?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
However as you OP ( SEANMCAD ) said last week - in the other thread you started - the sale of Steam Machines hasn't taken off.
.....
And I'd say the reason for that is that it's a third-party box. Consoles, for instance, are loss leaders and depend on games to make the company money. A steam machine is, essentially, a console. So, it's my belief that if Valve wants the Steam Machines to "take off" they are going to have to figure out how to get the box prices to a $400 level or less. Otherwise, it's explaining to Joe Consumer about how a Steam Machine is more valuable than a console, for one, and more valuable than his PC (that can already play most games he wants). People generally don't make their lives more difficult or more complicated for shits and giggles
Honestly, if Valve could release a $200 Steam Machine that is of high quality, they would kill it. However, I get the feeling they aren't confident in their ability to get the necessary attachment to justify the loss. That's even taking into consideration the massive library of unplayed games that most steam people have lol. +
oh my god
the Reason Steam Machines havent taken off is because every single game is slower on Steam Machine then the same Windows PC.
why?
BECAUSE VULKAN ISNT OUT UNTIL NOW
but wait? tell me more about this Vulkan project that Valve has been working on directly...what? Its faster using Doom on a 1080 GTX than DX12? how can that be? would that make it the first time in OpenGL history that a game is faster than DX12? could it have anything at all whatsover ever to do with Valves commitment to the platform?
What's great is that we'll see. I'm really sorry, but I just don't see the market for a $700 console. Vulkan is the absolute least of their worries, or it should be. If their belief is that the masses want higher-fidelity gaming for double the price of a mainstream console, then I guess they aren't as smart as I thought.
Sorry, but if it's not at $400 it will never sell. You can put that in your signature if you like because I guarantee it.
However as you OP ( SEANMCAD ) said last week - in the other thread you started - the sale of Steam Machines hasn't taken off.
.....
And I'd say the reason for that is that it's a third-party box. Consoles, for instance, are loss leaders and depend on games to make the company money. A steam machine is, essentially, a console. So, it's my belief that if Valve wants the Steam Machines to "take off" they are going to have to figure out how to get the box prices to a $400 level or less. Otherwise, it's explaining to Joe Consumer about how a Steam Machine is more valuable than a console, for one, and more valuable than his PC (that can already play most games he wants). People generally don't make their lives more difficult or more complicated for shits and giggles
Honestly, if Valve could release a $200 Steam Machine that is of high quality, they would kill it. However, I get the feeling they aren't confident in their ability to get the necessary attachment to justify the loss. That's even taking into consideration the massive library of unplayed games that most steam people have lol. +
oh my god
the Reason Steam Machines havent taken off is because every single game is slower on Steam Machine then the same Windows PC.
why?
BECAUSE VULKAN ISNT OUT UNTIL NOW
but wait? tell me more about this Vulkan project that Valve has been working on directly...what? Its faster using Doom on a 1080 GTX than DX12? how can that be? would that make it the first time in OpenGL history that a game is faster than DX12? could it have anything at all whatsover ever to do with Valves commitment to the platform?
What's great is that we'll see. I'm really sorry, but I just don't see the market for a $700 console. Vulkan is the absolute least of their worries, or it should be. If their belief is that the masses want higher-fidelity gaming for double the price of a mainstream console, then I guess they aren't as smart as I thought.
Sorry, but if it's not at $400 it will never sell. You can put that in your signature if you like because I guarantee it.
you might be right but consider these two factors
Option 1. Every single game without execption runs slower on a Steam Machine vs the same spec hardware using Windows
Option 2: PC gamers are not going to spend PC prices for gaming in the living room
Yeah I am thinking Option 1 is the deal breaker
as a side note I was TOTALLY ready to buy a Steam Machine when I got my Oculus that was my key number 1 plan. But I am not doing it, guess why?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
However as you OP ( SEANMCAD ) said last week - in the other thread you started - the sale of Steam Machines hasn't taken off.
.....
And I'd say the reason for that is that it's a third-party box. Consoles, for instance, are loss leaders and depend on games to make the company money. A steam machine is, essentially, a console. So, it's my belief that if Valve wants the Steam Machines to "take off" they are going to have to figure out how to get the box prices to a $400 level or less. Otherwise, it's explaining to Joe Consumer about how a Steam Machine is more valuable than a console, for one, and more valuable than his PC (that can already play most games he wants). People generally don't make their lives more difficult or more complicated for shits and giggles
Honestly, if Valve could release a $200 Steam Machine that is of high quality, they would kill it. However, I get the feeling they aren't confident in their ability to get the necessary attachment to justify the loss. That's even taking into consideration the massive library of unplayed games that most steam people have lol. +
oh my god
the Reason Steam Machines havent taken off is because every single game is slower on Steam Machine then the same Windows PC.
why?
BECAUSE VULKAN ISNT OUT UNTIL NOW
but wait? tell me more about this Vulkan project that Valve has been working on directly...what? Its faster using Doom on a 1080 GTX than DX12? how can that be? would that make it the first time in OpenGL history that a game is faster than DX12? could it have anything at all whatsover ever to do with Valves commitment to the platform?
What's great is that we'll see. I'm really sorry, but I just don't see the market for a $700 console. Vulkan is the absolute least of their worries, or it should be. If their belief is that the masses want higher-fidelity gaming for double the price of a mainstream console, then I guess they aren't as smart as I thought.
Sorry, but if it's not at $400 it will never sell. You can put that in your signature if you like because I guarantee it.
Price parity is not going to cut it, I'm afraid.
Steam boxes will have to:
be cheaper than XBox or PS4
offer better performance than PC's
offer all the games that are available on Windows
If those conditions are met, Valve may have a fighting chance. I'm not holding my breath on that one, lol
People will still have to sacrifice their Steam Library collections and start buying Linux versions of all the games they already own.
However as you OP ( SEANMCAD ) said last week - in the other thread you started - the sale of Steam Machines hasn't taken off.
.....
And I'd say the reason for that is that it's a third-party box. Consoles, for instance, are loss leaders and depend on games to make the company money. A steam machine is, essentially, a console. So, it's my belief that if Valve wants the Steam Machines to "take off" they are going to have to figure out how to get the box prices to a $400 level or less. Otherwise, it's explaining to Joe Consumer about how a Steam Machine is more valuable than a console, for one, and more valuable than his PC (that can already play most games he wants). People generally don't make their lives more difficult or more complicated for shits and giggles
Honestly, if Valve could release a $200 Steam Machine that is of high quality, they would kill it. However, I get the feeling they aren't confident in their ability to get the necessary attachment to justify the loss. That's even taking into consideration the massive library of unplayed games that most steam people have lol. +
oh my god
the Reason Steam Machines havent taken off is because every single game is slower on Steam Machine then the same Windows PC.
why?
BECAUSE VULKAN ISNT OUT UNTIL NOW
but wait? tell me more about this Vulkan project that Valve has been working on directly...what? Its faster using Doom on a 1080 GTX than DX12? how can that be? would that make it the first time in OpenGL history that a game is faster than DX12? could it have anything at all whatsover ever to do with Valves commitment to the platform?
What's great is that we'll see. I'm really sorry, but I just don't see the market for a $700 console. Vulkan is the absolute least of their worries, or it should be. If their belief is that the masses want higher-fidelity gaming for double the price of a mainstream console, then I guess they aren't as smart as I thought.
Sorry, but if it's not at $400 it will never sell. You can put that in your signature if you like because I guarantee it.
Price parity is not going to cut it, I'm afraid.
Steam boxes will have to:
be cheaper than XBox or PS4
offer better performance than PC's
offer all the games that are available on Windows
If those conditions are met, Valve may have a fighting chance. I'm not holding my breath on that one, lol
People will still have to sacrifice their Steam Library collections and start buying Linux versions of all the games they already own.
I dont agree on the topic of cost. I do believe that the target is PC gamers of which eventually console gamers will be like 'why am I still using this piece of walmart shitbox with limited features when my friends have a real machine' but that wouldnt come for years
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
However as you OP ( SEANMCAD ) said last week - in the other thread you started - the sale of Steam Machines hasn't taken off.
.....
And I'd say the reason for that is that it's a third-party box. Consoles, for instance, are loss leaders and depend on games to make the company money. A steam machine is, essentially, a console. So, it's my belief that if Valve wants the Steam Machines to "take off" they are going to have to figure out how to get the box prices to a $400 level or less. Otherwise, it's explaining to Joe Consumer about how a Steam Machine is more valuable than a console, for one, and more valuable than his PC (that can already play most games he wants). People generally don't make their lives more difficult or more complicated for shits and giggles
Honestly, if Valve could release a $200 Steam Machine that is of high quality, they would kill it. However, I get the feeling they aren't confident in their ability to get the necessary attachment to justify the loss. That's even taking into consideration the massive library of unplayed games that most steam people have lol. +
oh my god
the Reason Steam Machines havent taken off is because every single game is slower on Steam Machine then the same Windows PC.
why?
BECAUSE VULKAN ISNT OUT UNTIL NOW
but wait? tell me more about this Vulkan project that Valve has been working on directly...what? Its faster using Doom on a 1080 GTX than DX12? how can that be? would that make it the first time in OpenGL history that a game is faster than DX12? could it have anything at all whatsover ever to do with Valves commitment to the platform?
What's great is that we'll see. I'm really sorry, but I just don't see the market for a $700 console. Vulkan is the absolute least of their worries, or it should be. If their belief is that the masses want higher-fidelity gaming for double the price of a mainstream console, then I guess they aren't as smart as I thought.
Sorry, but if it's not at $400 it will never sell. You can put that in your signature if you like because I guarantee it.
Price parity is not going to cut it, I'm afraid.
Steam boxes will have to:
be cheaper than XBox or PS4
offer better performance than PC's
offer all the games that are available on Windows
If those conditions are met, Valve may have a fighting chance. I'm not holding my breath on that one, lol
People will still have to sacrifice their Steam Library collections and start buying Linux versions of all the games they already own.
Sean linked a video by Gabe earlier in this thread. After watching I found myself more then ever rooting for Linux consoles to be successful.
However as you OP ( SEANMCAD ) said last week - in the other thread you started - the sale of Steam Machines hasn't taken off.
.....
And I'd say the reason for that is that it's a third-party box. Consoles, for instance, are loss leaders and depend on games to make the company money. A steam machine is, essentially, a console. So, it's my belief that if Valve wants the Steam Machines to "take off" they are going to have to figure out how to get the box prices to a $400 level or less. Otherwise, it's explaining to Joe Consumer about how a Steam Machine is more valuable than a console, for one, and more valuable than his PC (that can already play most games he wants). People generally don't make their lives more difficult or more complicated for shits and giggles
Honestly, if Valve could release a $200 Steam Machine that is of high quality, they would kill it. However, I get the feeling they aren't confident in their ability to get the necessary attachment to justify the loss. That's even taking into consideration the massive library of unplayed games that most steam people have lol. +
oh my god
the Reason Steam Machines havent taken off is because every single game is slower on Steam Machine then the same Windows PC.
why?
BECAUSE VULKAN ISNT OUT UNTIL NOW
but wait? tell me more about this Vulkan project that Valve has been working on directly...what? Its faster using Doom on a 1080 GTX than DX12? how can that be? would that make it the first time in OpenGL history that a game is faster than DX12? could it have anything at all whatsover ever to do with Valves commitment to the platform?
What's great is that we'll see. I'm really sorry, but I just don't see the market for a $700 console. Vulkan is the absolute least of their worries, or it should be. If their belief is that the masses want higher-fidelity gaming for double the price of a mainstream console, then I guess they aren't as smart as I thought.
Sorry, but if it's not at $400 it will never sell. You can put that in your signature if you like because I guarantee it.
People will still have to sacrifice their Steam Library collections and start buying Linux versions of all the games they already own.
That's not true at all.
Every Windows game i have purchased is available to me on my Linux box if its supported.
You buy the game once and you have the rights to use which ever version is required.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
Vulkan is going to be good all around. Good for all platforms.
one thing seanmcad has wrong is the fact that doom doesn't run in directx 12 what so ever. So please keep things factual sean. So if and when they add dx 12 support to doom will see how it runs then.
so your saying DX12 doesnt run at all on a 1080GTX but Vulkan does.
has that ever happened in the history of OpenGL I wonder. If not does anyone find it interesting that it also happens to be the first OpenGL project in which Valve has been pouring in money by the truck load?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Vulkan is going to be good all around. Good for all platforms.
one thing seanmcad has wrong is the fact that doom doesn't run in directx 12 what so ever. So please keep things factual sean. So if and when they add dx 12 support to doom will see how it runs then.
so your saying DX12 doesnt run at all on a 1080GTX but Vulkan does.
has that ever happened in the history of OpenGL I wonder. If not does anyone find it interesting that it also happens to be the first OpenGL project in which Valve has been pouring in money by the truck load?
Sell your house and cash out your pension, invest it all in Valve stock as their earnings are about to skyrocket !
Since Linux first appeared on the scene, I've read countless predictions of how it would soon "take over the world".
As everyone knows, Linux is better than Windows in every way AND it's FREE !
Vulkan is going to be good all around. Good for all platforms.
one thing seanmcad has wrong is the fact that doom doesn't run in directx 12 what so ever. So please keep things factual sean. So if and when they add dx 12 support to doom will see how it runs then.
so your saying DX12 doesnt run at all on a 1080GTX but Vulkan does.
has that ever happened in the history of OpenGL I wonder. If not does anyone find it interesting that it also happens to be the first OpenGL project in which Valve has been pouring in money by the truck load?
Sell your house and cash out your pension, invest it all in Valve stock as their earnings are about to skyrocket !
Since Linux first appeared on the scene, I've read countless predictions of how it would soon "take over the world".
As everyone knows, Linux is better than Windows in every way AND it's FREE !
Maybe this time Linux will take over the world...
/giggle
1. valve is a private company and if they were public I would invest in them but not because of Linux 2. you know how many Linux based smart phones there were before Google did it? zero. Now Android is the most popular OS of phones in an industry that is now larger than the entire gaming industry. So i would not under-estimate a billion dollar company saying 'you know what? for decades nobody has been doing any serious work on this, we are now gunna and we have truck loads of cash'
You seem to assume what is EXPLCITLY being talked about here has been constant for decades..it has not.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
However as you OP ( SEANMCAD ) said last week - in the other thread you started - the sale of Steam Machines hasn't taken off.
.....
And I'd say the reason for that is that it's a third-party box. Consoles, for instance, are loss leaders and depend on games to make the company money. A steam machine is, essentially, a console. So, it's my belief that if Valve wants the Steam Machines to "take off" they are going to have to figure out how to get the box prices to a $400 level or less. Otherwise, it's explaining to Joe Consumer about how a Steam Machine is more valuable than a console, for one, and more valuable than his PC (that can already play most games he wants). People generally don't make their lives more difficult or more complicated for shits and giggles
Honestly, if Valve could release a $200 Steam Machine that is of high quality, they would kill it. However, I get the feeling they aren't confident in their ability to get the necessary attachment to justify the loss. That's even taking into consideration the massive library of unplayed games that most steam people have lol. +
oh my god
the Reason Steam Machines havent taken off is because every single game is slower on Steam Machine then the same Windows PC.
why?
BECAUSE VULKAN ISNT OUT UNTIL NOW
but wait? tell me more about this Vulkan project that Valve has been working on directly...what? Its faster using Doom on a 1080 GTX than DX12? how can that be? would that make it the first time in OpenGL history that a game is faster than DX12? could it have anything at all whatsover ever to do with Valves commitment to the platform?
What's great is that we'll see. I'm really sorry, but I just don't see the market for a $700 console. Vulkan is the absolute least of their worries, or it should be. If their belief is that the masses want higher-fidelity gaming for double the price of a mainstream console, then I guess they aren't as smart as I thought.
Sorry, but if it's not at $400 it will never sell. You can put that in your signature if you like because I guarantee it.
Price parity is not going to cut it, I'm afraid.
Steam boxes will have to:
be cheaper than XBox or PS4
offer better performance than PC's
offer all the games that are available on Windows
If those conditions are met, Valve may have a fighting chance. I'm not holding my breath on that one, lol
People will still have to sacrifice their Steam Library collections and start buying Linux versions of all the games they already own.
I dont agree on the topic of cost. I do believe that the target is PC gamers of which eventually console gamers will be like 'why am I still using this piece of walmart shitbox with limited features when my friends have a real machine' but that wouldnt come for years
I think that cost is definitely valid. Remember that the whole reason that PC Gamers exist is because of how lacking consoles are (gross over-simplification, I know). Also (gross generalization incoming), PC Gamers, or high-end PC Gamers are those who will build their own machines. So you're building a console for a market who hates consoles, it's worse than a console, and you are asking someone who builds their own to buy a pre-built. Oh! And the features of the "console" are worse than consoles out there now. Oh! And it's Linux. Believe it or not, you really have to want a Linux box to build one. There is no significant upside, unless Vulkan can offer exponentially better performance, which probably isn't going to happen. If it reaches somewhere at parity +/- a couple points, you won't see any change.
Again, necessity breeds change, not novelty. So if they want penetration, then price is going to always be a factor. Essentially, this is Valve entering the console wars, which will cost them hundreds of millions of dollars unless they change their model or present new and innovative ideas.
I think that cost is definitely valid. Remember that the whole reason that PC Gamers exist is because of how lacking consoles are (gross over-simplification, I know). Also (gross generalization incoming), PC Gamers, or high-end PC Gamers are those who will build their own machines. So you're building a console for a market who hates consoles, it's worse than a console, and you are asking someone who builds their own to buy a pre-built. Oh! And the features of the "console" are worse than consoles out there now. Oh! And it's Linux. Believe it or not, you really have to want a Linux box to build one. There is no significant upside, unless Vulkan can offer exponentially better performance, which probably isn't going to happen. If it reaches somewhere at parity +/- a couple points, you won't see any change.
Again, necessity breeds change, not novelty. So if they want penetration, then price is going to always be a factor. Essentially, this is Valve entering the console wars, which will cost them hundreds of millions of dollars unless they change their model or present new and innovative ideas.
yeah i could not disagree more.
1. I think the lack of the performance is the most important part. 2. The cost to performance between building a PC and buying a pre-built has never been so wide that it makes a huge different. 3. most important to the point of number 2. if your theory was correct Acer gaming PCs, Alienware, Falcon Northwest would not have existed for as long as they have.
I almost always go pre-built on my PCs
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
You seem to assume what is EXPLCITLY being talked about here has been constant for decades..it has not.
And you seem to believe that one swallow makes a spring...
Do you honestly believe that Vulkan is superior to anything that can be achieved by anyone else, and that it will always be so ?
Companies make considerable efforts to find new sources of revenue.
BUT companies also make gigantic efforts to survive when threatened by the competition.
The history of tech development is full of examples of "superior" tech that was ignored because the competition had better marketing, was cheaper, was easier to use, etc.
amount of money spend into improving linux around gaming
zero = very small barely measurable so maybe some but nothing like millions let alone billions billions = I actually dont know the amount but Gabe has said they are 'doubling down' on linux so I assume its a F ton.
do we have any other example in other industries of this pattern? yes...Google
1991 zero 1992 zero 1993 zero 1994 zero 1995 zero 1996 zero 1997 zero 1998 zero 1999 zero 2000 zero 2001 zero 2003 zero 2004 zero 2005 zero 2006 zero 2007 zero 2008 zero 2009 zero 2011 zero 2012 zero 2013 billions 2014 billions 2015 billions 2016 billions
Games that work on Linux in Steam 2011 198 2016 1900
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Google turned Linux OS on phones from zero percent to the majority of phones.
three times I have now said this.
investments by companies into linux for gaming in the past 20 years? ZERO. hmmm sound familar?
You can say it a thousand times, but it will still be irrelevant, lol
As I said earlier in this thread in reply to Quizzical, the smartphone OS wars were all about proprietary OS's running on specific handsets vs an open-source OS running anywhere. Only Apple survived that fight, because... well Apple...
The smartphone OS battle has no relevance in the mature PC market. Starting conditions are vastly different.
A new gfx API that currently appears to outperform DX12 (in a very limited test sample) does not herald the coming dawn of Linux world domination.
You seem to assume what is EXPLCITLY being talked about here has been constant for decades..it has not.
And you seem to believe that one swallow makes a spring...
GOOGLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
read carefully
Google turned Linux OS on phones from zero percent to the majority of phones.
three times I have now said this.
investments by companies into linux for gaming in the past 20 years? ZERO. hmmm sound familar?
It wasn't Google, it was Android. The fact that Google bought them has nothing to do with the market, but is indicative of the direction of the market. Remember that the iPhone wasn't released until 2007. This was a case of necessity driving the market. Google's deal for Android was simply the steal of the century. Had it not been google, then it could have been RIM, or Symbian, or anyone else who was willing to offer up the paltry amount that Google probably paid for them. That's what I'm telling you, is that the reason for the marketshare of Android is inconsequential, smartphones were and inevitability. This is nothing like the desktop OS battle.
In fact! If anyone is going to crack the desktop market, it will be google. They are the only company who has the infrastructure to compete with Microsoft as far as OS and productivity. HOWEVER! Google would have to crack the business sector before it could be effective. That is, unless they offer desktop PCs at significantly reduced prices. Again, it comes down to having some necessity to fill. Now! Using Smartphones as an example, it could be someone convincing you that something novel is REALLY a necessity. That's for the spin doctors though.
Google turned Linux OS on phones from zero percent to the majority of phones.
three times I have now said this.
investments by companies into linux for gaming in the past 20 years? ZERO. hmmm sound familar?
You can say it a thousand times, but it will still be irrelevant, lol
As I said earlier in this thread in reply to Quizzical, the smartphone OS wars were all about proprietary OS's running on specific handsets vs an open-source OS running anywhere. Only Apple survived that fight, because... well Apple...
The smartphone OS battle has no relevance in the mature PC market. Starting conditions are vastly different.
A new gfx API that currently appears to outperform DX12 (in a very limited test sample) does not herald the coming dawn of Linux world domination.
so because Google brought Linux to the phone single handling as one company making linux the most popular OS for phones it not relevant that for the first time in history a billion dollar company is saying they are doubling down on Linux for gaming
you cant be serious
the similaritys are painful clear oh and by the way
games in Steam that use Linux
2011 198
2016 1900
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
-No company has really ever been even slightly dedicated to fixing Linux for gaming -Gabe says Valves want to double down on Linux for gaming -Valve starts to work with Kronus group on OpenGL the first business to do so. -Steam games that have a Linux version jump from 198 to 1900 in a few years. -For the first time in the history of OpenGL, an OpenGL is up and running while the DX version of the same generation is 'broken' on new cards
I am sure I dont have all of that exactly right but for the most part that is what has been happening
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
This might be way off topic but didn't Toyota embrace Linux if my memory recalls? I know this has nothing to do with the present argument but it does show some big support.
so because Google brought Linux to the phone single handling as one company making linux the most popular OS for phones it not relevant that for the first time in history a billion dollar company is saying they are doubling down on Linux for gaming
you cant be serious
the similaritys are painful clear oh and by the way
games in Steam that use Linux
2011 198
2016 1900
The difference between the smartphone OS battle and the PC OS battle could not be more obvious.
Smartphones were a new emerging tech that waged a war to establish standards or that tech. Many companies threw their hats into the ring, but there would only be one clear winner: Android.
The PC market is the opposite case. The market is mature and saturated. Standards are well established and entrenched. One giant corporation dominates that market: Microsoft.
Are you saying that Valve are now about to crush Microsoft because they invested a "a lot of money" (?) in co-developing a cross-platform gfx API that appears to currently run somewhat better on Linux than on Windows ?
so because Google brought Linux to the phone single handling as one company making linux the most popular OS for phones it not relevant that for the first time in history a billion dollar company is saying they are doubling down on Linux for gaming
you cant be serious
the similaritys are painful clear oh and by the way
games in Steam that use Linux
2011 198
2016 1900
The difference between the smartphone OS battle and the PC OS battle could not be more obvious.
Smartphones were a new emerging tech that waged a war to establish standards or that tech. Many companies threw their hats into the ring, but there would only be one clear winner: Android.
The PC market is the opposite case. The market is mature and saturated. Standards are well established and entrenched. One giant corporation dominates that market: Microsoft.
Are you saying that Valve are now about to crush Microsoft because they invested a "a lot of money" (?) in co-developing a cross-platform gfx API that appears to currently run somewhat better on Linux than on Windows ?
Lmao.
-No company has really ever been even slightly dedicated to fixing Linux for gaming -Gabe says Valves want to double down on Linux for gaming
-Valve starts to work with Kronus group on OpenGL the first business to do so. -Steam games that have a Linux version jump from 198 to 1900 in a few years.
-For the first time in the history of OpenGL, an OpenGL is up and running while the DX version of the same generation is 'broken' on new cards
your hopeless and I am done
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Comments
And I'd say the reason for that is that it's a third-party box. Consoles, for instance, are loss leaders and depend on games to make the company money. A steam machine is, essentially, a console. So, it's my belief that if Valve wants the Steam Machines to "take off" they are going to have to figure out how to get the box prices to a $400 level or less. Otherwise, it's explaining to Joe Consumer about how a Steam Machine is more valuable than a console, for one, and more valuable than his PC (that can already play most games he wants). People generally don't make their lives more difficult or more complicated for shits and giggles
Honestly, if Valve could release a $200 Steam Machine that is of high quality, they would kill it. However, I get the feeling they aren't confident in their ability to get the necessary attachment to justify the loss. That's even taking into consideration the massive library of unplayed games that most steam people have lol. +
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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Yes of course I said just last week that the sales of Steam hasnt taken off.
why?
BECAUSE
OF
VULKAN
Vulkan is a OpenGL project that is co-created with Valve. In fact it is the cornerstone of all the Linux work they are doing.
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the Reason Steam Machines havent taken off is because every single game is slower on Steam Machine then the same Windows PC.
why?
BECAUSE VULKAN ISNT OUT UNTIL NOW
but wait? tell me more about this Vulkan project that Valve has been working on directly...what? Its faster using Doom on a 1080 GTX than DX12? how can that be? would that make it the first time in OpenGL history that a game is faster than DX12? could it have anything at all whatsover ever to do with Valves commitment to the platform?
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What's great is that we'll see. I'm really sorry, but I just don't see the market for a $700 console. Vulkan is the absolute least of their worries, or it should be. If their belief is that the masses want higher-fidelity gaming for double the price of a mainstream console, then I guess they aren't as smart as I thought.
Sorry, but if it's not at $400 it will never sell. You can put that in your signature if you like because I guarantee it.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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Option 1. Every single game without execption runs slower on a Steam Machine vs the same spec hardware using Windows
Option 2: PC gamers are not going to spend PC prices for gaming in the living room
Yeah I am thinking Option 1 is the deal breaker
as a side note I was TOTALLY ready to buy a Steam Machine when I got my Oculus that was my key number 1 plan. But I am not doing it, guess why?
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Steam boxes will have to:
If those conditions are met, Valve may have a fighting chance. I'm not holding my breath on that one, lol
People will still have to sacrifice their Steam Library collections and start buying Linux versions of all the games they already own.
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Every Windows game i have purchased is available to me on my Linux box if its supported.
You buy the game once and you have the rights to use which ever version is required.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
has that ever happened in the history of OpenGL I wonder. If not does anyone find it interesting that it also happens to be the first OpenGL project in which Valve has been pouring in money by the truck load?
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Since Linux first appeared on the scene, I've read countless predictions of how it would soon "take over the world".
As everyone knows, Linux is better than Windows in every way AND it's FREE !
Maybe this time Linux will take over the world...
/giggle
2. you know how many Linux based smart phones there were before Google did it? zero. Now Android is the most popular OS of phones in an industry that is now larger than the entire gaming industry. So i would not under-estimate a billion dollar company saying 'you know what? for decades nobody has been doing any serious work on this, we are now gunna and we have truck loads of cash'
You seem to assume what is EXPLCITLY being talked about here has been constant for decades..it has not.
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I think that cost is definitely valid. Remember that the whole reason that PC Gamers exist is because of how lacking consoles are (gross over-simplification, I know). Also (gross generalization incoming), PC Gamers, or high-end PC Gamers are those who will build their own machines. So you're building a console for a market who hates consoles, it's worse than a console, and you are asking someone who builds their own to buy a pre-built. Oh! And the features of the "console" are worse than consoles out there now. Oh! And it's Linux. Believe it or not, you really have to want a Linux box to build one. There is no significant upside, unless Vulkan can offer exponentially better performance, which probably isn't going to happen. If it reaches somewhere at parity +/- a couple points, you won't see any change.
Again, necessity breeds change, not novelty. So if they want penetration, then price is going to always be a factor. Essentially, this is Valve entering the console wars, which will cost them hundreds of millions of dollars unless they change their model or present new and innovative ideas.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
1. I think the lack of the performance is the most important part.
2. The cost to performance between building a PC and buying a pre-built has never been so wide that it makes a huge different.
3. most important to the point of number 2. if your theory was correct Acer gaming PCs, Alienware, Falcon Northwest would not have existed for as long as they have.
I almost always go pre-built on my PCs
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Do you honestly believe that Vulkan is superior to anything that can be achieved by anyone else, and that it will always be so ?
Companies make considerable efforts to find new sources of revenue.
BUT companies also make gigantic efforts to survive when threatened by the competition.
The history of tech development is full of examples of "superior" tech that was ignored because the competition had better marketing, was cheaper, was easier to use, etc.
read carefully
Google turned Linux OS on phones from zero percent to the majority of phones.
three times I have now said this.
investments by companies into linux for gaming in the past 20 years? ZERO.
hmmm sound familar?
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amount of money spend into improving linux around gaming
zero = very small barely measurable so maybe some but nothing like millions let alone billions
billions = I actually dont know the amount but Gabe has said they are 'doubling down' on linux so I assume its a F ton.
do we have any other example in other industries of this pattern? yes...Google
1991 zero
1992 zero
1993 zero
1994 zero
1995 zero
1996 zero
1997 zero
1998 zero
1999 zero
2000 zero
2001 zero
2003 zero
2004 zero
2005 zero
2006 zero
2007 zero
2008 zero
2009 zero
2011 zero
2012 zero
2013 billions
2014 billions
2015 billions
2016 billions
Games that work on Linux in Steam
2011 198
2016 1900
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As I said earlier in this thread in reply to Quizzical, the smartphone OS wars were all about proprietary OS's running on specific handsets vs an open-source OS running anywhere. Only Apple survived that fight, because... well Apple...
The smartphone OS battle has no relevance in the mature PC market. Starting conditions are vastly different.
A new gfx API that currently appears to outperform DX12 (in a very limited test sample) does not herald the coming dawn of Linux world domination.
It wasn't Google, it was Android. The fact that Google bought them has nothing to do with the market, but is indicative of the direction of the market. Remember that the iPhone wasn't released until 2007. This was a case of necessity driving the market. Google's deal for Android was simply the steal of the century. Had it not been google, then it could have been RIM, or Symbian, or anyone else who was willing to offer up the paltry amount that Google probably paid for them. That's what I'm telling you, is that the reason for the marketshare of Android is inconsequential, smartphones were and inevitability. This is nothing like the desktop OS battle.
In fact! If anyone is going to crack the desktop market, it will be google. They are the only company who has the infrastructure to compete with Microsoft as far as OS and productivity. HOWEVER! Google would have to crack the business sector before it could be effective. That is, unless they offer desktop PCs at significantly reduced prices. Again, it comes down to having some necessity to fill. Now! Using Smartphones as an example, it could be someone convincing you that something novel is REALLY a necessity. That's for the spin doctors though.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
the similaritys are painful clear
oh and by the way games in Steam that use Linux 2011 198 2016 1900
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so you are saying Valve spending Billions on Linux for gaming is not relevant or the same until Valve buys a company that uses Linux
your grasping for straws and doing a terrible job at it might add
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-No company has really ever been even slightly dedicated to fixing Linux for gaming
-Gabe says Valves want to double down on Linux for gaming
-Valve starts to work with Kronus group on OpenGL the first business to do so.
-Steam games that have a Linux version jump from 198 to 1900 in a few years.
-For the first time in the history of OpenGL, an OpenGL is up and running while the DX version of the same generation is 'broken' on new cards
I am sure I dont have all of that exactly right but for the most part that is what has been happening
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Smartphones were a new emerging tech that waged a war to establish standards or that tech. Many companies threw their hats into the ring, but there would only be one clear winner: Android.
The PC market is the opposite case. The market is mature and saturated. Standards are well established and entrenched. One giant corporation dominates that market: Microsoft.
Are you saying that Valve are now about to crush Microsoft because they invested a "a lot of money" (?) in co-developing a cross-platform gfx API that appears to currently run somewhat better on Linux than on Windows ?
Lmao.
-Gabe says Valves want to double down on Linux for gaming
-Valve starts to work with Kronus group on OpenGL the first business to do so.
-Steam games that have a Linux version jump from 198 to 1900 in a few years.
-For the first time in the history of OpenGL, an OpenGL is up and running while the DX version of the same generation is 'broken' on new cards
your hopeless and I am done
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me