There's plenty of Vulkan reviews and comparisons on the internet.
Apparently it does outperform DX12 in many tests. Running on Windows.
So Vulkan might possibly become the preferred gfx API in the future. Running on Windows.
So to make Valve's dream come true, Vulkan will have to perform better on Linux than it does on Windows. Consistently.
It's waaay too early to make that call, nVidia and AMD haven't had time yet to properly optimise their drivers. And believe me, they will be pulling out all the stops to get the best possible results on Windows. Because that's where the vast majority of their products are being used...
yes.. that will be the litmus test for everything I agree.
as a pre-cursor of curiosity has OpenGL ever in its history out performed the same generation of DirectX. If not, is it just simply by chance or does it have anything at all to do with Valves help at kronos group. That is the question I am suggesting
What on earth has given you the impression that Valve is somehow an instrumental member of the Khronos Group ?
You do realise that there's 120 members (corporations) in that consortium ?
Almost everyone who's anyone in the tech business is part of the Khronos Group. Even Microsoft is a contributor.
Do you have any evidence to support your claim that Valve is so important in the group ? They seem somewhat out of their depth in that collection of tech heavy-hitters. Strange that they are not even among the Promoters (steering comittee) for the group...
fine I will look up the articles again that illustrate Valves involvement in this group is high.
thanks for helping us out
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
There's plenty of Vulkan reviews and comparisons on the internet.
Apparently it does outperform DX12 in many tests. Running on Windows.
So Vulkan might possibly become the preferred gfx API in the future. Running on Windows.
So to make Valve's dream come true, Vulkan will have to perform better on Linux than it does on Windows. Consistently.
It's waaay too early to make that call, nVidia and AMD haven't had time yet to properly optimise their drivers. And believe me, they will be pulling out all the stops to get the best possible results on Windows. Because that's where the vast majority of their products are being used...
yes.. that will be the litmus test for everything I agree.
as a pre-cursor of curiosity has OpenGL ever in its history out performed the same generation of DirectX. If not, is it just simply by chance or does it have anything at all to do with Valves help at kronos group. That is the question I am suggesting
What on earth has given you the impression that Valve is somehow an instrumental member of the Khronos Group ?
You do realise that there's 120 members (corporations) in that consortium ?
Almost everyone who's anyone in the tech business is part of the Khronos Group. Even Microsoft is a contributor.
Do you have any evidence to support your claim that Valve is so important in the group ? They seem somewhat out of their depth in that collection of tech heavy-hitters. Strange that they are not even among the Promoters (steering comittee) for the group...
fine I will look up the articles again that illustrate Valves involvement in this group is high.
Valve's Gabe Newell also wrote in the next-gen OpenGL announcement, "We are committed to the Next Generation OpenGL initiative and are closely collaborating with Khronos members to create a high-performance rendering interface for SteamOS and future Valve games."
Valve as the host for the glNext (later called Vulkan)
Valve has already been working with Nvidia to heavily optimize its GPU driver for OpenGL, to create the SteamOS and push the proliferation of Linux games. It's not a big surprise that now Valve is a main contributor to Vulkan as well.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Linux would be the better choice for gaming for me, provided there was similar driver support as for windows. It is just awesome how you can tailor a linux installation to whatever use. You could create a lean mean gaming machine OS and get rid of every software that has nothing to do with gaming. The only reason my current gaming pc is still running windows is because of driver support for my current videocard (AMD). But my next gaming pc will be running linux. The last year, all my game purchases have been with linux in mind.
Anyway, I am looking forward to the new Vulkan API, which unlike Dirext X isnt attached to a specific OS. And hopefully Valve will make gaming on linux an even smoother experience for the people who dont want to figure out how to configure an OS. I can understand why most ppl dont even consider linux as desktop atm. I am used to linux as desktop environment from my work, and for using it as OS for my game servers. But otherwise I would probably be stuck on Windows too if I was just interested in playing games.
I stand correct on something factual for a change/
thank you
now...what is the Story regarding Doom?
I am not sure what the story is behind Doom. I believe that is because that designed and made the Id Tech 6 engine OpenGL based with a Vulkan render added in there and some basic DirectX 11 support?
That is about all I can get from wiki on Id Tech 6. Why they choose to not support DirectX 12 is anyone's guess I imagine
From memory:
When AMD were developing their Mantle API - for themselves not the Khronos Group - they enlisted the support of various developers. The usual type of deal leading to title X being optimised for use with AMD or NVidia.
Pretty sure DOOM was Mantle "optimised".
Consequently - since Mantle is embedded within AMD's drivers - the DOOM alpha ran better on AMD cards using Mantle embedded AMD drivers. And since Vulkan is - essentially - an iteration of Mantle (after release by AMD) it would be natural to assume that DOOM should run better under Vulkan than under DX12 "out of the box".
Same should be true of some other games as well e.g. EA Frostbite stuff.
Of course future games - that started development after AMD advised devs to mostly go with DX12 - will probably work better "out of the box" on DX12.
Valve has already been working with Nvidia to heavily optimize its GPU driver for OpenGL, to create the SteamOS and push the proliferation of Linux games. It's not a big surprisethat now Valve is a main contributor to Vulkan as well.
'The Khronos Group began a project to create a next generation graphics API in July 2014 with a kickoff meeting at Valve Corporation'
In early 2015, LunarG (funded by Valve) developed and showcased a Linux driver for Intel which enabled Vulkan compatibility on the HD 4000 series integrated graphics, despite the open source Mesa drivers not being fully compatible with OpenGL 4.0 until later that year'
Why doesn't the Khronos group site and member page say, "The Khronos Group with VALVE and 100 others of no great significance."
Ask the authors of the article why they highlighted Valve. Maybe they have an agenda to promote Valve?
The Khronos Group much like the OpenGL group before is a lot like the W3C. They had a lot of members. Some members got a lot more press. However, it wasn't those groups that only controlled the progress. They all have an agenda and things they want to promote. That has always been the strength and weakness of those open collaborative efforts. It's one thing that hindered OpenGL for so long and made its progress so slow. The W3C should be a cautionary tale that the best ideas and intentions don't mean a golden carrot for the end users.
let me ask this question
If I change that statement that has drawn so much attention from Khrnos group to Vulkan can we move on?
I can be completely fine with that. see below. one of more than one link I have provided
Valve has already been working with Nvidia to heavily optimize its GPU driver for OpenGL, to create the SteamOS and push the proliferation of Linux games. It's not a big surprisethat now Valve is a main contributor to Vulkan as well.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Valve has already been working with Nvidia to heavily optimize its GPU driver for OpenGL, to create the SteamOS and push the proliferation of Linux games. It's not a big surprisethat now Valve is a main contributor to Vulkan as well.
'The Khronos Group began a project to create a next generation graphics API in July 2014 with a kickoff meeting at Valve Corporation'
In early 2015, LunarG (funded by Valve) developed and showcased a Linux driver for Intel which enabled Vulkan compatibility on the HD 4000 series integrated graphics, despite the open source Mesa drivers not being fully compatible with OpenGL 4.0 until later that year'
would it make you happy if I said it was just Vulkan and not the Khronos group? I mean because we do want to get to the meat of the point here right?
I do not dispute that Valve made noteworthy contributions to the Vulkan project. So did many others, it seems, including Dice.
Your initial argument made it sound like Vulkan's success was directly attributable to Valve's involvement and financial contributions. Given the structure of the Khronos Group, Valve's money is unlikely to have been noteworthy, else you would have expected to see them among the steering members. Significant contributions usually translate into perks like voting and veto rights.
Vulkan may be beating DX12 currently, but do you think Microsoft are just going to give up the fight ? DX12 is also a low-level API, and it's relatively new. No telling what MS can make it do if the pressure from Vulkan is sufficient.
In early 2015, LunarG (funded by Valve) developed and showcased a Linux driver for Intel which enabled Vulkan compatibility on the HD 4000 series integrated graphics, despite the open source Mesa drivers not being fully compatible with OpenGL 4.0 until later that year'
would it make you happy if I said it was just Vulkan and not the Khronos group? I mean because we do want to get to the meat of the point here right?
Key point in the wiki:
Vulkan is derived from and built upon components of AMD's Mantle API, which was donated by AMD to Khronos with the intent of giving Khronos a foundation on which to begin developing a low-level API that they could standardize across the industry,
Arguably if any one company has propelled Vulkan it is AMD.
And will Vulkan give Steam Machines a huge edge over PCs running DX12 today? No. At least that was AMD's judgement. Otherwise AMD would have kept Mantle in-house - so today's Vulkan driver would not exist - and they would have pushed ahead with the plan they had to develop a Mantle SDK. Instead they changed plans and suggested to devs that they (mostly) use DX12.
Which is not to say that Vulkan is bad, but today both it and DX12 are largely in the same place. Tomorrow?
Valve has already been working with Nvidia to heavily optimize its GPU driver for OpenGL, to create the SteamOS and push the proliferation of Linux games. It's not a big surprisethat now Valve is a main contributor to Vulkan as well.
Not really because Khronos is Vulkan, and OpenGL, and a ton of other technologies. There is more to the picture than Vulkan alone. There isn't a single Vulkan group than directs, contributes, controls, and votes. That is the Khronos group.
Here is the Khronos Group Leadership: https://www.khronos.org/members/promoters/ They "act as the "Board of Directors" to set the direction of the Group, with final specification ratification voting rights." Valve is not on that list.
Here is the Khronos Group Contributors who can vote: https://www.khronos.org/members/contributors They "have full API working group participation and voting rights, and generous marketing benefits." Valve is on this list.
There are also academic contributors and members who can't vote. Valve doesn't direct anything or contribute in any way that the Promoters and Contributors haven't approved. They can lobby, push, and promote, and that may work for them, but they don't do anything the rest of the group doesn't approve. This is how it worked when it was just the old OpenGL project. This is how W3C works.
So the Khronos Group has Super Delegates? Goddamn Clinton's piss me off Grrr
Valve has already been working with Nvidia to heavily optimize its GPU driver for OpenGL, to create the SteamOS and push the proliferation of Linux games. It's not a big surprisethat now Valve is a main contributor to Vulkan as well.
Not really because Khronos is Vulkan, and OpenGL, and a ton of other technologies. There is more to the picture than Vulkan alone. There isn't a single Vulkan group than directs, contributes, controls, and votes. That is the Khronos group.
Here is the Khronos Group Leadership: https://www.khronos.org/members/promoters/ They "act as the "Board of Directors" to set the direction of the Group, with final specification ratification voting rights." Valve is not on that list.
Here is the Khronos Group Contributors who can vote: https://www.khronos.org/members/contributors They "have full API working group participation and voting rights, and generous marketing benefits." Valve is on this list.
There are also academic contributors and members who can't vote. Valve doesn't direct anything or contribute in any way that the Promoters and Contributors haven't approved. They can lobby, push, and promote, and that may work for them, but they don't do anything the rest of the group doesn't approve. This is how it worked when it was just the old OpenGL project. This is how W3C works.
Regardless I am offically changing my stance and I will if I have time correct my orginal statement to say 'Valve is heavly involved in Vulkan' instea of 'Khrnos Group' and below as my source as to why I say it that way. moving on
Valve has already been working with Nvidia to heavily optimize its GPU driver for OpenGL, to create the SteamOS and push the proliferation of Linux games. It's not a big surprisethat now Valve is a main contributor to Vulkan as well.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Valve has already been working with Nvidia to heavily optimize its GPU driver for OpenGL, to create the SteamOS and push the proliferation of Linux games. It's not a big surprisethat now Valve is a main contributor to Vulkan as well.
Seems to be your favorite quote.
There's a subtle but significant difference between "a main contributor" and "THE main contributor".
The author also seems to use Khronos's "game engine developers such as Valve and others have been surprisingly strong contributors of ideas to the Vulkan project" to justify stating that Valve has "become a main contributor to Vulkan as well". That's a bit of a leap of faith, lol
Unfortunately the author that wrote that article for TH failed to mention any of the other Vulkan "main contributors" by name. Other than DICE, who get a passing mention as an earlier collaborator.
Don't you have anything better than an opinion piece by a tech blogger ? Who else (other than you) shares his opinion of Valve's significance in Vulkan ?
You cannot separate Vulkan from the Khronos Group, it is inextricably linked to the group.
Valve has already been working with Nvidia to heavily optimize its GPU driver for OpenGL, to create the SteamOS and push the proliferation of Linux games. It's not a big surprisethat now Valve is a main contributor to Vulkan as well.
Seems to be your favorite quote.
There's a subtle but significant difference between "a main contributor" and "THE main contributor".
The author also seems to use Khronos's "game engine developers such as Valve and others have been surprisingly strong contributors of ideas to the Vulkan project" to justify stating that Valve has "become a main contributor to Vulkan as well". That's a bit of a leap of faith, lol
Unfortunately the author that wrote that article for TH failed to mention any of the other Vulkan "main contributors" by name. Other than DICE, who get a passing mention as an earlier collaborator.
Don't you have anything better than an opinion piece by a tech blogger ? Who else (other than you) shares his opinion of Valve's significance in Vulkan ?
You cannot separate Vulkan from the Khronos Group, it is inextricably linked to the group.
I have corrected my statement for in the interest of getting to the point of the illustration to say 'Valve and Vulkan' instead of 'Valve and Khronos Group' and using the article below as to why. Does the details of this point matter? yes. does it matter in all possible aspects? no. what is the underlining point? That Valve is commited and spending money and engery more than usual and more than ever before on Linux for gaming. Prooving me wrong about Valve and Khrnos Group unfortantly doesnt change that
Valve has already been working with Nvidia to heavily optimize its GPU driver for OpenGL, to create the SteamOS and push the proliferation of Linux games. It's not a big surprisethat now Valve is a main contributor to Vulkan as well.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
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thanks for helping us out
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
The only reason my current gaming pc is still running windows is because of driver support for my current videocard (AMD). But my next gaming pc will be running linux. The last year, all my game purchases have been with linux in mind.
Anyway, I am looking forward to the new Vulkan API, which unlike Dirext X isnt attached to a specific OS. And hopefully Valve will make gaming on linux an even smoother experience for the people who dont want to figure out how to configure an OS. I can understand why most ppl dont even consider linux as desktop atm. I am used to linux as desktop environment from my work, and for using it as OS for my game servers. But otherwise I would probably be stuck on Windows too if I was just interested in playing games.
Naturally they would exaggerate their own position in their own version of events. Most companies would.
Look at the names in that blue panel. Those are some serious tech companies.
If you can find proof of Valve's prominence in the Group, that would be most enlightening.
When AMD were developing their Mantle API - for themselves not the Khronos Group - they enlisted the support of various developers. The usual type of deal leading to title X being optimised for use with AMD or NVidia.
Pretty sure DOOM was Mantle "optimised".
Consequently - since Mantle is embedded within AMD's drivers - the DOOM alpha ran better on AMD cards using Mantle embedded AMD drivers. And since Vulkan is - essentially - an iteration of Mantle (after release by AMD) it would be natural to assume that DOOM should run better under Vulkan than under DX12 "out of the box".
Same should be true of some other games as well e.g. EA Frostbite stuff.
Of course future games - that started development after AMD advised devs to mostly go with DX12 - will probably work better "out of the box" on DX12.
'The Khronos Group began a project to create a next generation graphics API in July 2014 with a kickoff meeting at Valve Corporation'
In early 2015, LunarG (funded by Valve) developed and showcased a Linux driver for Intel which enabled Vulkan compatibility on the HD 4000 series integrated graphics, despite the open source Mesa drivers not being fully compatible with OpenGL 4.0
until later that year'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulkan_(API)
would it make you happy if I said it was just Vulkan and not the Khronos group? I mean because we do want to get to the meat of the point here right?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
If I change that statement that has drawn so much attention from Khrnos group to Vulkan can we move on?
I can be completely fine with that. see below. one of more than one link I have provided
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Unless, you know, your a board member with some significance, then you are prominently listed up top.
Your initial argument made it sound like Vulkan's success was directly attributable to Valve's involvement and financial contributions. Given the structure of the Khronos Group, Valve's money is unlikely to have been noteworthy, else you would have expected to see them among the steering members. Significant contributions usually translate into perks like voting and veto rights.
Vulkan may be beating DX12 currently, but do you think Microsoft are just going to give up the fight ? DX12 is also a low-level API, and it's relatively new. No telling what MS can make it do if the pressure from Vulkan is sufficient.
Vulkan is derived from and built upon components of AMD's Mantle API, which was donated by AMD to Khronos with the intent of giving Khronos a foundation on which to begin developing a low-level API that they could standardize across the industry,
Arguably if any one company has propelled Vulkan it is AMD.
And will Vulkan give Steam Machines a huge edge over PCs running DX12 today? No. At least that was AMD's judgement. Otherwise AMD would have kept Mantle in-house - so today's Vulkan driver would not exist - and they would have pushed ahead with the plan they had to develop a Mantle SDK. Instead they changed plans and suggested to devs that they (mostly) use DX12.
Which is not to say that Vulkan is bad, but today both it and DX12 are largely in the same place. Tomorrow?
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/khronos-group-vulkan-graphics-api,28678.html
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
There's a subtle but significant difference between "a main contributor" and "THE main contributor".
The author also seems to use Khronos's "game engine developers such as Valve and others have been surprisingly strong contributors of ideas to the Vulkan project" to justify stating that Valve has "become a main contributor to Vulkan as well". That's a bit of a leap of faith, lol
Unfortunately the author that wrote that article for TH failed to mention any of the other Vulkan "main contributors" by name. Other than DICE, who get a passing mention as an earlier collaborator.
Don't you have anything better than an opinion piece by a tech blogger ? Who else (other than you) shares his opinion of Valve's significance in Vulkan ?
You cannot separate Vulkan from the Khronos Group, it is inextricably linked to the group.
what is the underlining point? That Valve is commited and spending money and engery more than usual and more than ever before on Linux for gaming. Prooving me wrong about Valve and Khrnos Group unfortantly doesnt change that
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me