The stated timeline of end of 2017 for FULL RELASE is not a realistic one. Not even close.
Noted. I'm curious, however, what you're basing that on? Is it based on your development experience? Your insider knowledge into what business deals we've been working on? Have you peeked at our Gantt chart? Maybe you feel like using purchased assets from the Unreal Marketplace won't speed up development? Could it be you know that our choice of programming language for the server will slow down development? Anything? You got anything to substantiate your claim?
Here's the thing. You complain about us being transparent, but it's easy to sit where you are and say we're not going to make it. If you're wrong, great. You were wrong, and you get the game on-time. If you're right, then nobody is going to be hurt more by it than us. Either way, you're sitting in a nice comfortable spot. Recognize it's easy to make statements from the comfort of your position.
-------------------------------------------
He provides zero to counter the argument. Not a schedule or a plan... instead he kind of sounds exactly like some of the folks who have posted here recently. If you are not on the development team, your opinion is meaningless. See, in the same time it took to type that... he could have typed in something like:
Q3 16 = Pre Alpha (basic environment, less than 10 clients connected, develop animations)
Q4 17 = Early Entry and Launch - No wipes from this point on
I dunno.. that is all obviously made up... but SOMETHING would have been better than just ignoring the question and questioning the qualifications of those that pose it.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Give a defined timeline and at the slightest delay, which happens ALL the time on projects, and the shit hits the storm. I mean even now, with just 1 date given, that of release, people are throwing fits in practically every post about the timeline.
I am happy with the continual Design Journals being released, the regular community live feeds, the regular interviews with DM21 Gaming channel and the updates on the KS page. I think it is waaaaaay to early to be complaining already but this site is great for negativity overload.
Give a defined timeline and at the slightest delay, which happens ALL the time on projects, and the shit hits the storm. I mean even now, with just 1 date given, that of release, people are throwing fits in practically every post about the timeline.
I am happy with the continual Design Journals being released, the regular community live feeds, the regular interviews with DM21 Gaming channel and the updates on the KS page. I think it is waaaaaay to early to be complaining already but this site is great for negativity overload.
Sorry.. I disagree. One of the biggest and most common concerns I see on here and elsewhere is about the unrealistic timeline. Trying to criticize the qualifications of those asking the question is not an answer.
For me this is the MAIN sticking point and will pretty much determine if I keep my 2 accounts or cancel when the KS ends. No I will not hold them to the day, but I do not think that asking for a general schedule is too much when they in turn are asking for a million bucks.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Give a defined timeline and at the slightest delay, which happens ALL the time on projects, and the shit hits the storm. I mean even now, with just 1 date given, that of release, people are throwing fits in practically every post about the timeline.
I am happy with the continual Design Journals being released, the regular community live feeds, the regular interviews with DM21 Gaming channel and the updates on the KS page. I think it is waaaaaay to early to be complaining already but this site is great for negativity overload.
Thing is as we've seen with SC, giving a lowball number like one year then not delivering the full game in that time is a recipe for heated critique. That is the one area they should be a lot more forthcoming on. A lot of these projects do that, as I figure it simply sounds better to people ( "I only have to wait a year" rather than years)... When logic says it will take more time than that to complete the whole project. AT the least they should outline what they plan to release next year and the state they expect it to be in.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
They have to pick a date to list the project. Dec 2017 is the soonest they believe they can finish the project, This will be the minimum viable product, if everything goes according to schedule. After this time they will add more content and polish.
They have also been working on this project for years before kickstarter. Most companies come to kickstarter with just an idea, but Soulbound studios came in with a partially complete project before they started there campaign for more funds.
Give a defined timeline and at the slightest delay, which happens ALL the time on projects, and the shit hits the storm. I mean even now, with just 1 date given, that of release, people are throwing fits in practically every post about the timeline.
I am happy with the continual Design Journals being released, the regular community live feeds, the regular interviews with DM21 Gaming channel and the updates on the KS page. I think it is waaaaaay to early to be complaining already but this site is great for negativity overload.
Sorry.. I disagree. One of the biggest and most common concerns I see on here and elsewhere is about the unrealistic timeline. Trying to criticize the qualifications of those asking the question is not an answer.
For me this is the MAIN sticking point and will pretty much determine if I keep my 2 accounts or cancel when the KS ends. No I will not hold them to the day, but I do not think that asking for a general schedule is too much when they in turn are asking for a million bucks.
While I understand about unrealistic timelines I really feel that the guys who have been working on the design of the game for the last 10 years, who are currently working on the game and who will be doing the work are in the best position to determine what timeline is most suitable.
With all due respect, you are just a nobody on the internet and these guys are making the game. In a battle of who to believe, you lose.
The stated timeline of end of 2017 for FULL RELASE is not a realistic one. Not even close.
Noted. I'm curious, however, what you're basing that on? Is it based on your development experience? Your insider knowledge into what business deals we've been working on? Have you peeked at our Gantt chart? Maybe you feel like using purchased assets from the Unreal Marketplace won't speed up development? Could it be you know that our choice of programming language for the server will slow down development? Anything? You got anything to substantiate your claim?
Here's the thing. You complain about us being transparent, but it's easy to sit where you are and say we're not going to make it. If you're wrong, great. You were wrong, and you get the game on-time. If you're right, then nobody is going to be hurt more by it than us. Either way, you're sitting in a nice comfortable spot. Recognize it's easy to make statements from the comfort of your position.
-------------------------------------------
He provides zero to counter the argument. Not a schedule or a plan... instead he kind of sounds exactly like some of the folks who have posted here recently. If you are not on the development team, your opinion is meaningless. See, in the same time it took to type that... he could have typed in something like:
Q3 16 = Pre Alpha (basic environment, less than 10 clients connected, develop animations)
Q4 17 = Early Entry and Launch - No wipes from this point on
I dunno.. that is all obviously made up... but SOMETHING would have been better than just ignoring the question and questioning the qualifications of those that pose it.
ya know i wrote a really angry post after reading his answers but deleted it.realizing this guy or his game isn't worth my time or worth me going there. instead i hope whoever takes the risk of backing this so called "Project" him and his team can actually deliver on because all gamers regardless of what you enjoy deserve better then the crap this industry gives us 90% of the time or how they treat us.
an thx @Slapshot1188 for saving me some money by asking questions many don't wanna ask cause it seems to be the cool thing to do now is to just throw money at games and hope for the best regardless of common sense.
Yeah it appears there seems to be a rash of single post threads all pretty much saying the same thing and going above and beyond criticism into personal insults about the dev and his family.
And as Caspian said, he addressed the issues and the thread is no longer providing any value.
Seems like we have a bitter, negative poster re-posting the same posts by creating account, posting the same blurb and then leaving...it is just a dick trying to cause problems...
Give a defined timeline and at the slightest delay, which happens ALL the time on projects, and the shit hits the storm. I mean even now, with just 1 date given, that of release, people are throwing fits in practically every post about the timeline.
I am happy with the continual Design Journals being released, the regular community live feeds, the regular interviews with DM21 Gaming channel and the updates on the KS page. I think it is waaaaaay to early to be complaining already but this site is great for negativity overload.
Sorry.. I disagree. One of the biggest and most common concerns I see on here and elsewhere is about the unrealistic timeline. Trying to criticize the qualifications of those asking the question is not an answer.
For me this is the MAIN sticking point and will pretty much determine if I keep my 2 accounts or cancel when the KS ends. No I will not hold them to the day, but I do not think that asking for a general schedule is too much when they in turn are asking for a million bucks.
While I understand about unrealistic timelines I really feel that the guys who have been working on the design of the game for the last 10 years, who are currently working on the game and who will be doing the work are in the best position to determine what timeline is most suitable.
Maybe, but they should also be in the best position to explain the whys and hows. The developer has said that he wants to treat the KS folks the same way he would treat other seed investors. Would he go to a seed investor and just say they will get it done in 16 months without walking through how? Would a seed investor just say OK I'll give you a million dollars and trust you without any plan being shown?
In the time it took to post that diatribe about how unqualified the questioners are, he could have used that time to actually answer the question and actually treat KS folks like the seed investors he wants them to be.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
The stated timeline of end of 2017 for FULL RELASE is not a realistic one. Not even close.
Noted. I'm curious, however, what you're basing that on? Is it based on your development experience? Your insider knowledge into what business deals we've been working on? Have you peeked at our Gantt chart? Maybe you feel like using purchased assets from the Unreal Marketplace won't speed up development? Could it be you know that our choice of programming language for the server will slow down development? Anything? You got anything to substantiate your claim?
Here's the thing. You complain about us being transparent, but it's easy to sit where you are and say we're not going to make it. If you're wrong, great. You were wrong, and you get the game on-time. If you're right, then nobody is going to be hurt more by it than us. Either way, you're sitting in a nice comfortable spot. Recognize it's easy to make statements from the comfort of your position.
-------------------------------------------
He provides zero to counter the argument. Not a schedule or a plan... instead he kind of sounds exactly like some of the folks who have posted here recently. If you are not on the development team, your opinion is meaningless. See, in the same time it took to type that... he could have typed in something like:
Q3 16 = Pre Alpha (basic environment, less than 10 clients connected, develop animations)
Q4 17 = Early Entry and Launch - No wipes from this point on
I dunno.. that is all obviously made up... but SOMETHING would have been better than just ignoring the question and questioning the qualifications of those that pose it.
He didn't ignore the question. Look at it from the developers point of view. Who currently has a schedule and timeline setup on their website. Someone says something like that troll did and didn't explain what part of the process will take longer then the developers are claiming. He needs more information before going into detail of how development will work. It will take him a year to describe every detail of the entire process. So he needs to know exactly what part of the process the troll is crying about.
I mean come on the guy asks them to be accountable with the 500k that the developers gave from their own pockets. That is one grossly unreasonable expectation. Hey tell me what you do with your personal money and I'll tell you what they did with the 500k. Which was their personal money and nothing from a backer.
I mean come on the guy asks them to be accountable with the 500k that the developers gave from their own pockets. That is one grossly unreasonable expectation. Hey tell me what you do with your personal money and I'll tell you what they did with the 500k. Which was their personal money and nothing from a backer.
Uhm him and the fans kept repeating over and over and over again that he used 500k of his own money. They are using this as advertisment to raise the faith in the project.
Just showing how the money was used to boost the development would surely raise the faith further and convince critics as well?
I know there is a lot of posts in the thread so you might have missed. The only thing they need to work on is the animations and a few minor things. Which is why they have projected the date at 2017. That person who started the thread was only 1 post to his name and instead of deleting it and forgetting it they responded with pages of responses from the developers. Their only mistake was answering the OP instead of deleting it.
If you check the thread and the forums overwhelmingly the OP post is ripped apart and Caspians reply praised for being thorough and informative. And it isn't a suprize that there are several other posts, all 1 post accounts, that echo the same things. Some of the other posts were personally insulting to not only the devs but also their families.
The OP had an ulterior motive and it wasn't to have the points addressed.
Maybe, but they should also be in the best position to explain the whys and hows. The developer has said that he wants to treat the KS folks the same way he would treat other seed investors. Would he go to a seed investor and just say they will get it done in 16 months without walking through how? Would a seed investor just say OK I'll give you a million dollars and trust you without any plan being shown?
In the time it took to post that diatribe about how unqualified the questioners are, he could have used that time to actually answer the question and actually treat KS folks like the seed investors he wants them to be.
I get what you are saying but as Caspian stated, there are different phases to game design and spending the time and effort now on some things that are not part of the critical path is just bad PM.
And sure, he could have detailed out every step of the project but as I think I have mentioned elsewhere all that will do is give the detractors even more dates to complain about.
I think the main problem I am seeing now in my hobby is that, because people are getting involved so damn early in the development cycle, and because they really do not understand what happens, boredom sets in and people start to nitpick about every little detail.
For me, give me the premise, detail the scope of the game and then get on with it. I do not want to know the teams daily movements.
I think it is a sign of the Facebook generation...status update - Took a shit...status update - wiped arse....
Let me know when something important has happened not that the dev team toilets have run out of toilet paper.
I wonder how bad the consequences of a gank will be?
Also glad that they mentioned being able to grab someone with the off hand as an option during combat..
NEWS FLASH!"A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished!https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA
Their timeframe on when the game will be released isn't realistic and the response is the same sort of stuff that we hear all the time. Fast-forward 1.5 years in the future and you have the standard excuses of development being hard and that these things take time.
What I find troubling is that they will still lack the capital on finishing the project, instead they rely on investors climbing on-board after they showed a proper build to them. If that doesn't happen they will rely on their fans to gather more funds and we have yet another early access release.
I will have to give them credit for being transparent though. He doesn't talk through PR and he tells it like it is, its just that I don't agree with a few of his points.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
Their timeframe on when the game will be released isn't realistic and the response is the same sort of stuff that we hear all the time. Fast-forward 1.5 years in the future and you have the standard excuses of development being hard and that these things take time.
What I find troubling is that they will still lack the capital on finishing the project, instead they rely on investors climbing on-board after they showed a proper build to them. If that doesn't happen they will rely on their fans to gather more funds and we have yet another early access release.
I will have to give them credit for being transparent though. He doesn't talk through PR and he tells it like it is, its just that I don't agree with a few of his points.
Comments
The stated timeline of end of 2017 for FULL RELASE is not a realistic one. Not even close.
Noted. I'm curious, however, what you're basing that on? Is it based on your development experience? Your insider knowledge into what business deals we've been working on? Have you peeked at our Gantt chart? Maybe you feel like using purchased assets from the Unreal Marketplace won't speed up development? Could it be you know that our choice of programming language for the server will slow down development? Anything? You got anything to substantiate your claim?
Here's the thing. You complain about us being transparent, but it's easy to sit where you are and say we're not going to make it. If you're wrong, great. You were wrong, and you get the game on-time. If you're right, then nobody is going to be hurt more by it than us. Either way, you're sitting in a nice comfortable spot. Recognize it's easy to make statements from the comfort of your position.
-------------------------------------------
He provides zero to counter the argument. Not a schedule or a plan... instead he kind of sounds exactly like some of the folks who have posted here recently. If you are not on the development team, your opinion is meaningless. See, in the same time it took to type that... he could have typed in something like:
Q3 16 = Pre Alpha (basic environment, less than 10 clients connected, develop animations)
Q4 16 = Pre Alpha (< 50 clients connected, combat, mob development, resource nodes)
Q1 17 = Alpha (<100 clients connected, basic skills, basic crafting, basic building)
Q2 17 = Beta 1 (<1000 clients connected, territory control, refined skills, mob AI)
Q3 17 = Beta 2 (Max clients connected, advanced skills, tradeskills, political system)
Q4 17 = Early Entry and Launch - No wipes from this point on
I dunno.. that is all obviously made up... but SOMETHING would have been better than just ignoring the question and questioning the qualifications of those that pose it.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I am happy with the continual Design Journals being released, the regular community live feeds, the regular interviews with DM21 Gaming channel and the updates on the KS page. I think it is waaaaaay to early to be complaining already but this site is great for negativity overload.
For me this is the MAIN sticking point and will pretty much determine if I keep my 2 accounts or cancel when the KS ends. No I will not hold them to the day, but I do not think that asking for a general schedule is too much when they in turn are asking for a million bucks.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
People will complain if they don't give dates. People will complain if they do give dates.
People complain.
They have also been working on this project for years before kickstarter. Most companies come to kickstarter with just an idea, but Soulbound studios came in with a partially complete project before they started there campaign for more funds.
With all due respect, you are just a nobody on the internet and these guys are making the game. In a battle of who to believe, you lose.
an thx @Slapshot1188 for saving me some money by asking questions many don't wanna ask cause it seems to be the cool thing to do now is to just throw money at games and hope for the best regardless of common sense.
The guy is Jason Appleton all over again...
That is the thing about game engines, technology and art assets being very accessible these days, every "kid" can think they can build an MMO.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
And as Caspian said, he addressed the issues and the thread is no longer providing any value.
Seems like we have a bitter, negative poster re-posting the same posts by creating account, posting the same blurb and then leaving...it is just a dick trying to cause problems...
Nothing new about that, those types are here too.
As dev you are just not cut out to sound professional when you are talking to the community.
In the time it took to post that diatribe about how unqualified the questioners are, he could have used that time to actually answer the question and actually treat KS folks like the seed investors he wants them to be.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
They are using this as advertisment to raise the faith in the project.
Just showing how the money was used to boost the development would surely raise the faith further and convince critics as well?
The OP had an ulterior motive and it wasn't to have the points addressed.
And sure, he could have detailed out every step of the project but as I think I have mentioned elsewhere all that will do is give the detractors even more dates to complain about.
I think the main problem I am seeing now in my hobby is that, because people are getting involved so damn early in the development cycle, and because they really do not understand what happens, boredom sets in and people start to nitpick about every little detail.
For me, give me the premise, detail the scope of the game and then get on with it. I do not want to know the teams daily movements.
I think it is a sign of the Facebook generation...status update - Took a shit...status update - wiped arse....
Let me know when something important has happened not that the dev team toilets have run out of toilet paper.
I wonder how bad the consequences of a gank will be?
Also glad that they mentioned being able to grab someone with the off hand as an option during combat..
NEWS FLASH! "A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/ Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished! https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/ Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA
What I find troubling is that they will still lack the capital on finishing the project, instead they rely on investors climbing on-board after they showed a proper build to them. If that doesn't happen they will rely on their fans to gather more funds and we have yet another early access release.
I will have to give them credit for being transparent though. He doesn't talk through PR and he tells it like it is, its just that I don't agree with a few of his points.
You hit the nail on the head.