Yes, a dead genre always has a couple hundred titles to choose from, and new ones being released on a constant basis. /facepalm
Just because your standards are too high (ridiculously so) for any current game to meet, doesn't mean the genre is dying. In fact, it's flourishing, with a ton of promising titles on the horizon. Some are theme parks, some are sand parks, and some are sandboxes.
You people remind me of those global warming idiots in the 60's who screamed that we would all die by the seventies if we didn't do something. When that didn't happen, they moved our 'impending doom' up into the 90's. When that didn't happen (and the ozone hole proved to be inconsequential), they moved it to the 2020's and 2030's. Guess what's going to happen next?
The genre is fine. Oh, and so are point and click adventures. There's a ton of really good ones that were released recently, and a lot more on the horizon. Steam likely has 50 or more which were released in the last few years, even a few that were kickstarted.
TL;DR Typical gloom and doom claptrap from one of the resident 'old school' MMO players.
The genre is kind of shit though. MMORPGs are the laughing stock of gaming. Repetitive and grindy. Also they are not that successful. COmpared to the big blockbusters in other genres, MMORPGs look like an extremely niche genre which has the potential to sell very few copies. It just pales in comparison to shooters, RPGs and adventure games. It seems even strategy games are becoming more popular lol.
It seems even BLizzard have given up on this genre and they have been the most successful company in it. They just realised that other genres sell more, make more money and have more potential for sequels. Their new overwatch game is massive (10m played the beta) and no doubt will make a lot of money.
To some of us, money isn't everything. We were perfectly happy with MMORPGs before WoW.
Millions of people from other genres showed up and suddenly started making demands, changing our genre into yours. The thing is, you were never invited. You understand this, right?
This is starting to strike me as: If we say it enough, it will come true. Thus far it is not.
I would agree that I do not see much in the way of innovation or imagination recently however, I do not believe that the genre is dying. Not at all. All forms of entertainment have slumps. Professional sports have had their ups and downs, theater has had it's share of horrible periods, etc.
At worst I would call this a slump, and usually after a slump you can expect an amazing resurgence. As far as dead, dying or any of the other 'sky is falling' it simply is not true. I would be very interested in seeing some solid facts that may back up this theory, but I sincerely doubt anyone can bring any up. Sorry folks but gut feelings and general opinions don't make fact.
Post edited by Hatefull on
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Yes, a dead genre always has a couple hundred titles to choose from, and new ones being released on a constant basis. /facepalm
Just because your standards are too high (ridiculously so) for any current game to meet, doesn't mean the genre is dying. In fact, it's flourishing, with a ton of promising titles on the horizon. Some are theme parks, some are sand parks, and some are sandboxes.
You people remind me of those global warming idiots in the 60's who screamed that we would all die by the seventies if we didn't do something. When that didn't happen, they moved our 'impending doom' up into the 90's. When that didn't happen (and the ozone hole proved to be inconsequential), they moved it to the 2020's and 2030's. Guess what's going to happen next?
The genre is fine. Oh, and so are point and click adventures. There's a ton of really good ones that were released recently, and a lot more on the horizon. Steam likely has 50 or more which were released in the last few years, even a few that were kickstarted.
TL;DR Typical gloom and doom claptrap from one of the resident 'old school' MMO players.
The genre is kind of shit though. MMORPGs are the laughing stock of gaming. Repetitive and grindy. Also they are not that successful. COmpared to the big blockbusters in other genres, MMORPGs look like an extremely niche genre which has the potential to sell very few copies. It just pales in comparison to shooters, RPGs and adventure games. It seems even strategy games are becoming more popular lol.
It seems even BLizzard have given up on this genre and they have been the most successful company in it. They just realised that other genres sell more, make more money and have more potential for sequels. Their new overwatch game is massive (10m played the beta) and no doubt will make a lot of money.
To some of us, money isn't everything. We were perfectly happy with MMORPGs before WoW.
Millions of people from other genres showed up and suddenly started making demands, changing our genre into yours. The thing is, you were never invited. You understand this, right?
I have to agree with your statement, but there is no going back. I was also happy when most people were not on the internet and no one demanded you have to be polite and write a certain way to be accepted, but this is what happens with things go mainstream. With the advent of smart phones and everyone being connected to the internet there is no going back.
Yes, a dead genre always has a couple hundred titles to choose from, and new ones being released on a constant basis. /facepalm
Just because your standards are too high (ridiculously so) for any current game to meet, doesn't mean the genre is dying. In fact, it's flourishing, with a ton of promising titles on the horizon. Some are theme parks, some are sand parks, and some are sandboxes.
You people remind me of those global warming idiots in the 60's who screamed that we would all die by the seventies if we didn't do something. When that didn't happen, they moved our 'impending doom' up into the 90's. When that didn't happen (and the ozone hole proved to be inconsequential), they moved it to the 2020's and 2030's. Guess what's going to happen next?
The genre is fine. Oh, and so are point and click adventures. There's a ton of really good ones that were released recently, and a lot more on the horizon. Steam likely has 50 or more which were released in the last few years, even a few that were kickstarted.
TL;DR Typical gloom and doom claptrap from one of the resident 'old school' MMO players.
The genre is kind of shit though. MMORPGs are the laughing stock of gaming. Repetitive and grindy. Also they are not that successful. COmpared to the big blockbusters in other genres, MMORPGs look like an extremely niche genre which has the potential to sell very few copies. It just pales in comparison to shooters, RPGs and adventure games. It seems even strategy games are becoming more popular lol.
It seems even BLizzard have given up on this genre and they have been the most successful company in it. They just realised that other genres sell more, make more money and have more potential for sequels. Their new overwatch game is massive (10m played the beta) and no doubt will make a lot of money.
To some of us, money isn't everything. We were perfectly happy with MMORPGs before WoW.
Millions of people from other genres showed up and suddenly started making demands, changing our genre into yours. The thing is, you were never invited. You understand this, right?
I have to agree with your statement, but there is no going back. I was also happy when most people were not on the internet and no one demanded you have to be polite and write a certain way to be accepted, but this is what happens with things go mainstream. With the advent of smart phones and everyone being connected to the internet there is no going back.
Agree to a certain extent. Seems everyone is over sensitive and over opinionated. The know it all's that think everything they say is perfect; to the everyone needs a trophy crowd have ruined things for us normal people. Wish we could go back to drinking beer and eating high cholesterol foods.
Yes, a dead genre always has a couple hundred titles to choose from, and new ones being released on a constant basis. /facepalm
Just because your standards are too high (ridiculously so) for any current game to meet, doesn't mean the genre is dying. In fact, it's flourishing, with a ton of promising titles on the horizon. Some are theme parks, some are sand parks, and some are sandboxes.
You people remind me of those global warming idiots in the 60's who screamed that we would all die by the seventies if we didn't do something. When that didn't happen, they moved our 'impending doom' up into the 90's. When that didn't happen (and the ozone hole proved to be inconsequential), they moved it to the 2020's and 2030's. Guess what's going to happen next?
The genre is fine. Oh, and so are point and click adventures. There's a ton of really good ones that were released recently, and a lot more on the horizon. Steam likely has 50 or more which were released in the last few years, even a few that were kickstarted.
TL;DR Typical gloom and doom claptrap from one of the resident 'old school' MMO players.
The genre is kind of shit though. MMORPGs are the laughing stock of gaming. Repetitive and grindy. Also they are not that successful. COmpared to the big blockbusters in other genres, MMORPGs look like an extremely niche genre which has the potential to sell very few copies. It just pales in comparison to shooters, RPGs and adventure games. It seems even strategy games are becoming more popular lol.
It seems even BLizzard have given up on this genre and they have been the most successful company in it. They just realised that other genres sell more, make more money and have more potential for sequels. Their new overwatch game is massive (10m played the beta) and no doubt will make a lot of money.
To some of us, money isn't everything. We were perfectly happy with MMORPGs before WoW.
Millions of people from other genres showed up and suddenly started making demands, changing our genre into yours. The thing is, you were never invited. You understand this, right?
I have to agree with your statement, but there is no going back. I was also happy when most people were not on the internet and no one demanded you have to be polite and write a certain way to be accepted, but this is what happens with things go mainstream. With the advent of smart phones and everyone being connected to the internet there is no going back.
Agree to a certain extent. Seems everyone is over sensitive and over opinionated. The know it all's that think everything they say is perfect; to the everyone needs a trophy crowd have ruined things for us normal people. Wish we could go back to drinking beer and eating high cholesterol foods.
That is true. Sometimes healthy doesn't equate to fun and sometimes knowing a lot doesn't equate to fun either. I am healthier and know a lot more now, but I'm not sure that I am having more fun than I did playing Ultima Online, Everquest, and eating pizza. I think part of that culture/way of life is so ingrained into me it's difficult to let go of something I really believed in when I was younger. I also have had a lot of anger towards corporations for selling these ideas and continuing to try and capitalize on people to make money in any way they can. I think we are all happiest when we are young, ignorant, and believe in what we are doing. The current crop of MMO players were just sold a different philosophy on life.
MMORPGs have too many limitations they have to work within for them to be the future of all gaming. It's just impossible to deliver high quality non repetitive content on the scale of MMORPGs.
Are those really MMORPGs? The more I look at " themepark " MMORPGs, the more I see they truly deserve their own subgenre or possibly an entirely new genre. There is just too large of difference between a game like EVE and a game like WOW.
MMORPGs have too many limitations they have to work within for them to be the future of all gaming. It's just impossible to deliver high quality non repetitive content on the scale of MMORPGs.
Are those really MMORPGs? The more I look at " themepark " MMORPGs, the more I see they truly deserve their own subgenre or possibly an entirely new genre. There is just too large of difference between a game like EVE and a game like WOW.
But which is an MMORPG? Both are multiplayer on line games, EVE is certainly Massively Multiplayer, but it is not an RPG. WoW used to be a MMORPG but is now arguably a MOBA with a persistent world as a lobby.
mmorpg doesnt need to be grinding. grinding is not the main theme. dev create game to make money. grinding player doesnt give money to dev. we need huge battle arena with less grindy leveling system
Just give me a grindy MMO with good grapics and interesting combat + progression and you got me.
The grindier the better, i've yet to play an MMO with too much grind. If it takes a hundred years to reach max level, even better. Chances are, tho, that my life time is too short for reaching the end game, but that's ok. At least i got something to do for every day i paid for.
If i wanted a battle arena with no grind, i'd be posting on moba.com, but this is mmorpg.com. They are supposed to take a long time to get anywhere. If they don't they are bad mmorpgs, it's that simple.
I love a good grind, but not all grind is a good grind. Bad grind that lacks the proper quantity and quality of diverse content and interesting mechanics will grow old fast. This is why people always look back to early MMOs and emulators to replay the games they found the most compelling while abandoning the shallow grindy games that are currently being offered.
The sense of accomplishment associated with grindy progression will not alone sustain an MMO.
Not dead, just over saturated, supply exceeds demand which reduces the value of a product. Once the demand returns, so will the big money projects, but demand wont return until the market its self condenses to its natural balance point.
MMORPGs have too many limitations they have to work within for them to be the future of all gaming. It's just impossible to deliver high quality non repetitive content on the scale of MMORPGs.
Are those really MMORPGs? The more I look at " themepark " MMORPGs, the more I see they truly deserve their own subgenre or possibly an entirely new genre. There is just too large of difference between a game like EVE and a game like WOW.
But which is an MMORPG? Both are multiplayer on line games, EVE is certainly Massively Multiplayer, but it is not an RPG. WoW used to be a MMORPG but is now arguably a MOBA with a persistent world as a lobby.
may be just like MMO, the label mmorpg needs to be broadened?
Yes, a dead genre always has a couple hundred titles to choose from, and new ones being released on a constant basis. /facepalm
Just because your standards are too high (ridiculously so) for any current game to meet, doesn't mean the genre is dying. In fact, it's flourishing, with a ton of promising titles on the horizon. Some are theme parks, some are sand parks, and some are sandboxes.
You people remind me of those global warming idiots in the 60's who screamed that we would all die by the seventies if we didn't do something. When that didn't happen, they moved our 'impending doom' up into the 90's. When that didn't happen (and the ozone hole proved to be inconsequential), they moved it to the 2020's and 2030's. Guess what's going to happen next?
The genre is fine. Oh, and so are point and click adventures. There's a ton of really good ones that were released recently, and a lot more on the horizon. Steam likely has 50 or more which were released in the last few years, even a few that were kickstarted.
TL;DR Typical gloom and doom claptrap from one of the resident 'old school' MMO players.
The genre is kind of shit though. MMORPGs are the laughing stock of gaming. Repetitive and grindy. Also they are not that successful. COmpared to the big blockbusters in other genres, MMORPGs look like an extremely niche genre which has the potential to sell very few copies. It just pales in comparison to shooters, RPGs and adventure games. It seems even strategy games are becoming more popular lol.
It seems even BLizzard have given up on this genre and they have been the most successful company in it. They just realised that other genres sell more, make more money and have more potential for sequels. Their new overwatch game is massive (10m played the beta) and no doubt will make a lot of money.
To some of us, money isn't everything. We were perfectly happy with MMORPGs before WoW.
Millions of people from other genres showed up and suddenly started making demands, changing our genre into yours. The thing is, you were never invited. You understand this, right?
I have to agree with your statement, but there is no going back. I was also happy when most people were not on the internet and no one demanded you have to be polite and write a certain way to be accepted, but this is what happens with things go mainstream. With the advent of smart phones and everyone being connected to the internet there is no going back.
Agree to a certain extent. Seems everyone is over sensitive and over opinionated. The know it all's that think everything they say is perfect; to the everyone needs a trophy crowd have ruined things for us normal people. Wish we could go back to drinking beer and eating high cholesterol foods.
That is true. Sometimes healthy doesn't equate to fun and sometimes knowing a lot doesn't equate to fun either. I am healthier and know a lot more now, but I'm not sure that I am having more fun than I did playing Ultima Online, Everquest, and eating pizza. I think part of that culture/way of life is so ingrained into me it's difficult to let go of something I really believed in when I was younger. I also have had a lot of anger towards corporations for selling these ideas and continuing to try and capitalize on people to make money in any way they can. I think we are all happiest when we are young, ignorant, and believe in what we are doing. The current crop of MMO players were just sold a different philosophy on life.
There is much truth in your post. I however do believe that when we were younger the corporations were also trying to make money any which way they could, it was just us not knowing/realizing this. I also believe that the current generation of gamers feel exactly the same way we used to back in the day, just in a completely different landscape and on a different scale. We all have that magical feeling, most of us lose it along the way, it is called growing up I guess. There is a reason Alice in Wonderland is one of my favorite books of all time, and I have studied English Literature
But thanks, you touched something there.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
nariusseldon said:
TD is a MMO, not a MMORPG. Heck, some here will even argue that it is not even a MMO.
But .. let's make it clear. Which western dev is making a new AAA mmorpg with CLASSICAL DESIGN?
Now, THAT is "semantics"...
absolutely, and semantics is what people here like to argue about. If not, there won't be so much traffic here. See the topic of how to define p2w as an example.
OP think about this. Big gaming companies losing interest in MMORPGs is the best possible news for the genre. It means both lowest common denominators and the suits exploiting them shamelessly are finaly moving on to other genres and I don't mean just mobas, shooters and mobile games either because let's face it, you can easily call the wave of asian-F2P-cash-shop-grinders a different genre, they don't qualify as MMORPGs.
So it looks like we are back in the golden niche pre-WoW era but with much more powerfull tech and know-how, which is more then fine with me. Add crowd funding in the mix and it's only a matter of time before a smart indy developer pulls off a gem, IMO of course.
Post edited by Benjola on
I care about your gaming 'problems' and teenage anxieties, just not today.
I grew sick of endless repetitive combat ages ago.
To me, the way to handle combat in a proper MMO would be to make it rare, lethal and extremely challenging.
Instead of making it the PvE activity of choice - it would be something you'd only engage in when you're desperate or well-prepared. It would get your heart pumping - and winning would be an actual accomplishment, instead of a foregone conclusion on your way to thousands of other foregone conclusions.
The genre is evolving and I think it's headed towards simulation with the oculus rift and other tech coming our way. Simulation meets MMORPG = pure awesome imho
The genre is evolving and I think it's headed towards simulation with the oculus rift and other tech coming our way. Simulation meets MMORPG = pure awesome imho
Yeah, I think not. Why would they suddenly start making actual virtual worlds, while the past years it has only been about themepark nr7645?
I mean,I like the idea, but I don't see why their MMO design suddenly would change. For coming years I expect at most support for those headsets next to normal gaming. Also, the hardware is way too expensive still for it to become mainstream. And the displays still need to become a lot better. This will happen if there are enough early adopters, otherwise this VR hype will be forgotten just as fast again.
Comments
Millions of people from other genres showed up and suddenly started making demands, changing our genre into yours. The thing is, you were never invited. You understand this, right?
I would agree that I do not see much in the way of innovation or imagination recently however, I do not believe that the genre is dying. Not at all. All forms of entertainment have slumps. Professional sports have had their ups and downs, theater has had it's share of horrible periods, etc.
At worst I would call this a slump, and usually after a slump you can expect an amazing resurgence. As far as dead, dying or any of the other 'sky is falling' it simply is not true. I would be very interested in seeing some solid facts that may back up this theory, but I sincerely doubt anyone can bring any up. Sorry folks but gut feelings and general opinions don't make fact.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
It is just semantics.
Are those really MMORPGs? The more I look at " themepark " MMORPGs, the more I see they truly deserve their own subgenre or possibly an entirely new genre. There is just too large of difference between a game like EVE and a game like WOW.
Which western dev is making a new AAA mmorpg?
The sense of accomplishment associated with grindy progression will not alone sustain an MMO.
In short, once the value exceeds the cost again.
Ubisoft just released The Division...
But .. let's make it clear. Which western dev is making a new AAA mmorpg with CLASSICAL DESIGN?
But thanks, you touched something there.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Big gaming companies losing interest in MMORPGs is the best possible news for the genre.
It means both lowest common denominators and the suits exploiting them shamelessly are finaly moving on to other genres and I don't mean just mobas, shooters and mobile games either because let's face it, you can easily call the wave of asian-F2P-cash-shop-grinders a different genre, they don't qualify as MMORPGs.
So it looks like we are back in the golden niche pre-WoW era but with much more powerfull tech and know-how, which is more then fine with me.
Add crowd funding in the mix and it's only a matter of time before a smart indy developer pulls off a gem,
IMO of course.
I care about your gaming 'problems' and teenage anxieties, just not today.
To me, the way to handle combat in a proper MMO would be to make it rare, lethal and extremely challenging.
Instead of making it the PvE activity of choice - it would be something you'd only engage in when you're desperate or well-prepared. It would get your heart pumping - and winning would be an actual accomplishment, instead of a foregone conclusion on your way to thousands of other foregone conclusions.
Simulation meets MMORPG = pure awesome imho
I mean,I like the idea, but I don't see why their MMO design suddenly would change. For coming years I expect at most support for those headsets next to normal gaming. Also, the hardware is way too expensive still for it to become mainstream. And the displays still need to become a lot better. This will happen if there are enough early adopters, otherwise this VR hype will be forgotten just as fast again.