Fully destructible world/environment is not the same as terraforming. Terraforming is actually changing the land mass, fully destructible world/environment is destroying all the stuff in the world. There is a difference. You can have fully destructible world/environment without having terraforming and not be misleading in anyway.
Indeed, as long as the world is fully destructible, it can accurately be described as a fully destructible world. And it doesn't seem to be the case with Chronicles of Elyria, since apparently only the structures and objects would be destructible.
Incorrect. The terrain does not need to be destructible to be accurately described as fully destructible world/environment. Terraforming is a thing. You cant ignore the fact that it is a separate term used to describe the ability to destroy or deform the actual terrain. It is perfectly accurate for them to say this game has a fully destructible world/environment and not have terraforming.
Of course the terrain needs to be destructible to be accurately described as fully destructible world/environment. The terrain is a (big) part of the world/environment. If it's not destructible, then the world/environment can not be fully destructible. Fully means "without lacking or omitting anything".
You are completely ignoring the existence of another word though. Terraforming is a thing. You cant ignore its existence. The terrain does not need to be destructible to have a game say it has a fully destructible environment. If they said they had fully destructible environment and terraforming then they would have to include full terrain deformation. If they never claim to have terraforming then they never have to add terrain deformation and they are still accurately describing the world.
I'm ignoring terraforming because I consider it's irrelevant to the current discussion, and that it's already complicated to agree on 3 simple words, so I can only imagine how messy this thread would get if we started arguing about all the other features CoE advertised (+ the chloride, sodium, etc.)
I think the problem here is each persons definition of environment. One of you is counting the ground we walk upon (soil, rock etc). The other is counting every thing but the ground.
If you count everything but the ground (because to alter that is terraforming) then @Deffcon_1 is right. If you include the ground then @Franciscourant is right.
Because you both come from different views on environment you are never going to agree and it might be better to agree to disagree instead of the argument/discussion getting more heated...
I'm counting the terrain since the terrain is comprised in both the definition of environment and the definition of world. The world indeed includes the terrain, and the environment of course comprises the terrain. If a studio promises that the world is fully destructible and that the environment is fully destructible, if it's only the things created by the players that are destructible, then the environment and the world aren't fully destructible (since they comprise everything, including the terrain, and the adverb is fully, meaning entirely/completely) and thus I'd find it misleading to claim that CoE has a "fully destructible environment" and "fully destructible world" if it's not the case.
The games that claim to have this feature are games like Landmark, Minecraft and the Worms series, and they as a matter of fact feature fully destructible world since we can destroy everything in the world and environment, including the terrain (and thus can be accurately qualified of "fully destructible world"). If the players are only able to destroy the structures made by players, then it's just similar to any game out there like Age of Empire, Startcraft or countless other games that feature construction and destruction of buildings by the players. But of course we wouldn't say that those games have "fully destructible world", because it's fallacious. We could say that the building or objects created by players are fully destructible. Not the world nor the environment.
Destructible world refers to buildings, maybe trees, etc. It does not have anything to do with the ground.
Terraforming is NOT tunneling. Tunneling is something that involves overhangs. Overhangs are not something that can happen in a typical height map landscape. I don't know how CoE is handling their terrain so I can't say how they will handle it. I would imagine they plan to use voxels for their terrain if they want full terraforming. A voxel world the size of CoE would be terribly demanding imo.
If they're using height maps for their terrain then the typical terraforming you will see is moving sections up and down. Tunneling would be a process of adding mesh of the desired shapes, think tube sections, into the terrain and "cutting a hole" in the terrain for the entrance.
In Short: Destructible world does not mean Terraforming and Terraforming does not necessarily include tunneling.
Destructible world may refer to buildings, trees, etc., but fully destructible world is different and means the entire world. That's why games such as Minecraft, Landmark and the Worms series can be accurately advertised as games with fully destructible world / environment, while games that feature simply objects / buildings destruction shouldn't imo.
Fully destructible world may be as simple as saying that everything that you build can be destroyed.
If you are expecting more than not sure what to say... make them clarify before you give them money?
I don't think so, otherwise I guess they wouldn't call it a "fully" destructible world, but simply a game wherein certain elements are destructible.
You are reaching very hard for this. Even when you describe it you say, "fully destructible world / environment". It's pretty obvious even you know the truth, you are just trying desperately to find something to argue about or have a reason to hate on the project/kickstarter.
Why bother posting about it here when you can hound the dev team about it and get a real answer? You are wasting your time.
Exactly what I tried to say maybe by doing a thorough explanation it went over @Franciscourant's head since he argued a point I wasn't disagreeing with
Signed Davan Drakenhoff ruler of Castle Drakenhoff the impenatrable castle made from cardboard
Fully destructible world/environment is not the same as terraforming. Terraforming is actually changing the land mass, fully destructible world/environment is destroying all the stuff in the world. There is a difference. You can have fully destructible world/environment without having terraforming and not be misleading in anyway.
Indeed, as long as the world is fully destructible, it can accurately be described as a fully destructible world. And it doesn't seem to be the case with Chronicles of Elyria, since apparently only the structures and objects would be destructible.
Incorrect. The terrain does not need to be destructible to be accurately described as fully destructible world/environment. Terraforming is a thing. You cant ignore the fact that it is a separate term used to describe the ability to destroy or deform the actual terrain. It is perfectly accurate for them to say this game has a fully destructible world/environment and not have terraforming.
Of course the terrain needs to be destructible to be accurately described as fully destructible world/environment. The terrain is a (big) part of the world/environment. If it's not destructible, then the world/environment can not be fully destructible. Fully means "without lacking or omitting anything".
You are completely ignoring the existence of another word though. Terraforming is a thing. You cant ignore its existence. The terrain does not need to be destructible to have a game say it has a fully destructible environment. If they said they had fully destructible environment and terraforming then they would have to include full terrain deformation. If they never claim to have terraforming then they never have to add terrain deformation and they are still accurately describing the world.
I'm ignoring terraforming because I consider it's irrelevant to the current discussion, and that it's already complicated to agree on 3 simple words, so I can only imagine how messy this thread would get if we started arguing about all the other features CoE advertised (+ the chloride, sodium, etc.)
I think the problem here is each persons definition of environment. One of you is counting the ground we walk upon (soil, rock etc). The other is counting every thing but the ground.
If you count everything but the ground (because to alter that is terraforming) then @Deffcon_1 is right. If you include the ground then @Franciscourant is right.
Because you both come from different views on environment you are never going to agree and it might be better to agree to disagree instead of the argument/discussion getting more heated...
I'm counting the terrain since the terrain is comprised in both the definition of environment and the definition of world. The world indeed includes the terrain, and the environment of course comprises the terrain. If a studio promises that the world is fully destructible and that the environment is fully destructible, if it's only the things created by the players that are destructible, then the environment and the world aren't fully destructible (since they comprise everything, including the terrain, and the adverb is fully, meaning entirely/completely) and thus I'd find it misleading to claim that CoE has a "fully destructible environment" and "fully destructible world" if it's not the case.
The games that claim to have this feature are games like Landmark, Minecraft and the Worms series, and they as a matter of fact feature fully destructible world since we can destroy everything in the world and environment, including the terrain (and thus can be accurately qualified of "fully destructible world"). If the players are only able to destroy the structures made by players, then it's just similar to any game out there like Age of Empire, Startcraft or countless other games that feature construction and destruction of buildings by the players. But of course we wouldn't say that those games have "fully destructible world", because it's fallacious. We could say that the building or objects created by players are fully destructible. Not the world nor the environment.
Destructible world refers to buildings, maybe trees, etc. It does not have anything to do with the ground.
Terraforming is NOT tunneling. Tunneling is something that involves overhangs. Overhangs are not something that can happen in a typical height map landscape. I don't know how CoE is handling their terrain so I can't say how they will handle it. I would imagine they plan to use voxels for their terrain if they want full terraforming. A voxel world the size of CoE would be terribly demanding imo.
If they're using height maps for their terrain then the typical terraforming you will see is moving sections up and down. Tunneling would be a process of adding mesh of the desired shapes, think tube sections, into the terrain and "cutting a hole" in the terrain for the entrance.
In Short: Destructible world does not mean Terraforming and Terraforming does not necessarily include tunneling.
Destructible world may refer to buildings, trees, etc., but fully destructible world is different and means the entire world. That's why games such as Minecraft, Landmark and the Worms series can be accurately advertised as games with fully destructible world / environment, while games that feature simply objects / buildings destruction shouldn't imo.
Fully destructible world may be as simple as saying that everything that you build can be destroyed.
If you are expecting more than not sure what to say... make them clarify before you give them money?
I don't think so, otherwise I guess they wouldn't call it a "fully" destructible world, but simply a game wherein certain elements are destructible.
You are reaching very hard for this. Even when you describe it you say, "fully destructible world / environment". It's pretty obvious even you know the truth, you are just trying desperately to find something to argue about or have a reason to hate on the project/kickstarter.
Why bother posting about it here when you can hound the dev team about it and get a real answer? You are wasting your time.
Not sure what you mean by "Even when you describe it you say [...]". I'm quoting what is written on their Kickstarter page:
I think its pretty obvious that what I have already said is true...
You can build anywhere in the world.. and can destroy anything that is built... making it a fully destructible world.
NEWS FLASH!"A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished!https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA
I think its pretty obvious that what I have already said is true...
You can build anywhere in the world.. and can destroy anything that is built... making it a fully destructible world.
I have to ask.
why are we even debating it? what is the end result here?
More flocking to minecraft for readers? The live stream is up!!
NEWS FLASH!"A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished!https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA
I think its pretty obvious that what I have already said is true...
You can build anywhere in the world.. and can destroy anything that is built... making it a fully destructible world.
I have to ask.
why are we even debating it? what is the end result here?
More flocking to minecraft for readers? The live stream is up!!
I thought it was an academic legal debate over a case then never in the history of multiple generations would ever be heard by a judge for reasons not even associated with 'destructible world' which makes it, as my mother would say, mental masturbation.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I thought it was an academic legal debate over a case then never in the history of multiple generations would ever be heard by a judge for reasons not even associated with 'destructible world' which makes it, as my mother would say, mental masturbation.
Wouldn't that make everything about CoE mental masturbation then?
I thought it was an academic legal debate over a case then never in the history of multiple generations would ever be heard by a judge for reasons not even associated with 'destructible world' which makes it, as my mother would say, mental masturbation.
Wouldn't that make everything about CoE mental masturbation then?
what is CoE?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
FrancisCourant, it was stated in one of the eary design journal that there is a distinct difference. Tunneling will be like adding a basement in your home. If your house is attacked and burned to the ground, items in your basement will remain intact. So 'fully destructable' is above ground where as 'tunneling' is below ground.
And as far as a fully destructable gound, I think that may come with the introduction of terafarming sometime in the near future.
With a fully destructible world (promised for $900,000), I guess players should already be able to create grottoes, caverns and change the terrain, since that's pretty much what "fully destructible environment" is about I guess.
Why not just accept their definition of what "fully destructible environment" is and what tunneling is?
Being someone who develops games, this is buildings normally AKA Battle Field 3-4..
They should of said destuctible terrains, aka advance terraforming. Games like Xyson have terraforming, but can't make tunnels... So there are also different forms of Voxel Engines and the way Voxels are handled... So they meant a very basic form of it, aka Xyson .. Now they plan to add a more advance version of terrain destruction to there system with tunneling, I won't go into the whole process about this, because it would confuse the average person.
No offense.. They should of explained it better, I agree. But there are many ways of adding Voxels to your game.. Many do not effect the terrain at it.. I believe 7 days to die is that way?? or was, no tunneling.. But you could lower the terrain and raise..But that was it, if I remember correctly its been awhile since I played .
If I remember they had voxels as well, but could not make tunnels.. So there is alot more work involved with tunneling.
That's why hype is so powerful. Everyone reads something and forms a picture in their mind about the meaning. The odds of the picture of the game you have in your mind and the picture the Devs have are very different. But hype sales things because it's all academic at this point.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I believe what they meant is we will see this feature sooner then later if we reached that goal, all these goals are to be implemented over time regardless.
Comments
Why bother posting about it here when you can hound the dev team about it and get a real answer? You are wasting your time.
Signed Davan Drakenhoff ruler of Castle Drakenhoff the impenatrable castle made from cardboard
I think its pretty obvious that what I have already said is true...
You can build anywhere in the world.. and can destroy anything that is built... making it a fully destructible world.
NEWS FLASH! "A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/ Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished! https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/ Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA
why are we even debating it? what is the end result here?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
NEWS FLASH! "A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/ Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished! https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/ Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
And as far as a fully destructable gound, I think that may come with the introduction of terafarming sometime in the near future.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Where's Nauris when you need him?