Obsessive Star Citizen Critics, or: The Tall Poppy Syndrome

Babuinix

Cya in the Verse comandos

SEANMCAD

People who make it a hobby to criticize Star Citizen need to consider therapy instead.
just move on.

CrazKanuk

MisterZebub said:

Brilliant summation. Now I'm just awaiting the outrage of the obsessives. Hmmm may want to take my sig to Derpcon 3.

First need to collect their logical arguments. :awesome: 

SpottyGekko

Obsessive critics ?

You mean like those that create a negative thread and then reply 68 times to the comments in that thread ?

Kefo

CrazKanuk said:

MisterZebub said:

Brilliant summation. Now I'm just awaiting the outrage of the obsessives. Hmmm may want to take my sig to Derpcon 3.

First need to collect their logical arguments. :awesome: 

I thought there wasn't any logical arguments on either side? 

FlyByKnight

That's right people. Never be skeptical when all signs point towards skepticism. Don't be a tall poppy cutter. Never use logic, historical patterns, and market trends to question things. Always have faith, always have hope and bring your wallet. Don't be an ambition hater. Always drink the purple juice despite the convulsing bodies around you. They wavered in their faith. YOU on the other hand will reach the promised land.

CrazKanuk

FlyByKnight said:

That's right people. Never be skeptical when all signs point towards skepticism. Don't be a tall poppy cutter. Never use logic, historical patterns, and market trends to question things. Always have faith, always have hope and bring your wallet. Don't be an ambition hater. Always drink the purple juice despite the convulsing bodies around you. They wavered in their faith. YOU on the other hand will reach the promised land.

Lol, I can't tell if it's sarcasm or not, but the whole thing with logic, historical patterns, and market trends made me laugh. I actually, literally shot coffee out of my nose a little. Luckily it's only warm right now. 

Thanks for the comedy relief. 

bartoni33

I usually don't watch YouTube opinion videos but this one for me rings true. If I had any script-writing or public speaking skills it would sound just like that, but switch out the British accent with a slight southern one.

LacedOpium

You can not claim yourself not to be a "fanboy" or a "whiteknight" and yet argue every point made by the "fanboys" and "whiteknights" ad nauseum.  The narrator of the video briefly mentions the legit concerns that many critics have about CIG in regard to Star Citizen, yet he doesn't go into detail about them and instead choses to "whiteknight" the arguments made by the 'fanboys" and the "whiteknights."

The main concern that most critics have about CIG in regard to Star Citizen revolve around "transparency and accountability" as it pertains to the 100+ million dollars that gamers have provided to CIG to develop this game.  In return, these gamers should have been given a good faith showing of how those funds have been allocated. There is no reason why this information should not be provided if the allocation of resources is "above board."

CIG brought this upon themselves due to their flagrant and stubborn refusal to be "transparent and accountable" and present a good faith showing to those as to how these fund were being allocated to those who have blessed them with these enormous amounts of funds.  All that was being requested was a simple showing of "transparency and accountability." Surely they have competent accountants keeping accurate financial records.

A brief ledger depicting the allocation of funds should not have been too hard to produce. The fact they so vehemently refused to provide one created an unnecessary flag.  And the immature and uninformed manner with which Roberts decided to respond throughout the entire fiasco certainly did not help and only served to stoke the embers and contribute to their own damage.  

CIG only has themselves to blame.

13lake

This is the best comment on that video by : Danakar "Quicksilver" Endeel

"You can trace this back to 1990 where Derek Smart was mucking around with his Battlecruiser game and trying to find a publisher when Chris Roberts stole the stage with Wing Commander. But instead of taking it in stride and improve upon his own game Derek sent nasty messages to Origin demanding to stop publishing Wing Commander or he would sue them for 'stealing his ideas'.

 Fast forward to 2012. Derek Smart is once again mucking around with Line of Defense (which should have been out in Summer 2012 already) and Chris Roberts takes the stage with the Star Citizen Kickstarter project.

 So yeah, that likely pushed Derek over the edge as history was going to repeat itself. He even backed on the last day of Kickstarter with $250 thinking it would give him a legal foothold in the company. But his plans failed when CIG refunded his pledge as per the Kickstarter ToS and it turned him into a raging howler monkey.

 And after nearly a year of constant online harassment, stalking, libel and doxxing during his FUD-campaign the only thing mister fake-PhD Derek Smart achieved was getting banned from multiple forums, shadowbanned from Reddit for creating a hatesub, a 24 hour suspension on Twitter and his own 'game' pulled from Steam. :P

 His selfproclaimed 'industry reach' is that of an old man yelling at clouds."

Babuinix

Those funds use are shown with the game development infrastructure, staff and quality of the assets.

- Multiple Studios Across the world
- 300+ In House Dev's + Hundreds of Contractors (Some of the best concept artists in the world)
- Single Player Campaign & Multiplayer Online Universe with a highly
- The best cast ever in a video-game with multiple awarded and world-wide known actors



The only ones that don't want to see are the ones that have no interest in seeing it because it completely destroys their FUD narrative.

LacedOpium

13lake said:

This is the best comment on that video by : Danakar "Quicksilver" Endeel

"You can trace this back to 1990 where Derek Smart was mucking around with his Battlecruiser game and trying to find a publisher when Chris Roberts stole the stage with Wing Commander. But instead of taking it in stride and improve upon his own game Derek sent nasty messages to Origin demanding to stop publishing Wing Commander or he would sue them for 'stealing his ideas'.

 Fast forward to 2012. Derek Smart is once again mucking around with Line of Defense (which should have been out in Summer 2012 already) and Chris Roberts takes the stage with the Star Citizen Kickstarter project.

 So yeah, that likely pushed Derek over the edge as history was going to repeat itself. He even backed on the last day of Kickstarter with $250 thinking it would give him a legal foothold in the company. But his plans failed when CIG refunded his pledge as per the Kickstarter ToS and it turned him into a raging howler monkey.

 And after nearly a year of constant online harassment, stalking, libel and doxxing during his FUD-campaign the only thing mister fake-PhD Derek Smart achieved was getting banned from multiple forums, shadowbanned from Reddit for creating a hatesub, a 24 hour suspension on Twitter and his own 'game' pulled from Steam. :P

 His selfproclaimed 'industry reach' is that of an old man yelling at clouds."

You are reaching with your Derek Smart hate.  Smart wasn't the only person fed up with CIGs antics.  There had been plenty of posts all over the net regarding CIGs peddling of ships.  It was a constant stream of ship art sales with nothing to show for it.  As a concerned pledger of the project, Smart simply expressed the same concern many other pledgers had been having regarding the project and he gave voice to the thousands of people who had been saying the same things he eventually gave voice to and clamoring for a bit of "transparency and accountability."

The shame with you pro-CIG people, is that instead of attacking the message you decided to attack the messenger.  This gave you a convenient excuse to make it about Smart instead of making it about the issue at hand.  All you hear about with you pro-CIG folk is "Derek Smart."  You are all obsessed with the man and little do you realize that your obsession with the man has made him bigger, and given him a greater platform, by which to do exactly that which you are attempting to deny him.  This is not, and has never been, about Derek Smart. 

SEANMCAD

There are very good reasons to avoid SC and to watch its progress from a distance [mod edit]

CrazKanuk

LacedOpium said:

You can not claim yourself not to be a "fanboy" or a "whiteknight" and yet argue every point made by the "fanboys" and "whiteknights" ad nauseum.  The narrator of the video briefly mentions the legit concerns that many critics have about CIG in regard to Star Citizen, yet he doesn't go into detail about them and instead choses to "whiteknight" the arguments made by the 'fanboys" and the "whiteknights."

The main concern that most critics have about CIG in regard to Star Citizen revolve around "transparency and accountability" as it pertains to the 100+ thousand dollars that gamers have provided to CIG to develop this game.  In return, these gamers should have been given a good faith showing of how those funds have been allocated. There is no reason why this information should not be provided if the allocation of resources is "above board."

CIG brought this upon themselves due to their flagrant and stubborn refusal to be "transparent and accountable" and present a good faith showing to those as to how these fund were being allocated to those who have blessed them with these enormous amounts of funds.  All that was being requested was a simple showing of "transparency and accountability." Surely they have competent accountants keeping accurate financial records.

A brief ledger depicting the allocation of funds should not have been too hard to produce. The fact they so vehemently refused to provide one created an unnecessary flag.  And the immature and uninformed manner with which Roberts decided to respond throughout the entire fiasco certainly did not help and only served to stoke the embers and contribute to their own damage.  

CIG only has themselves to blame.

You miss the point. The point is that there are completely valid points, but that they are rarely argued, instead people opting for obscure and outlandish theories, coffee machines, and doors. 

Secondly, it's quite possible that CIG is the only company, now and in history, who is privately owned and yet has people marching on their lawn with pitchforks demanding accountability and transparency. That's a pretty lofty assumption, I know, but I can literally not think of a single instance past or present where a company has received so much information. Here's what it boils down to. When a door becomes a major concern of those who are "concerned" about the project, why in the world would you open your books? I applaud them. Murca doesn't give in to terrorist demands! 

Honestly? It's about as logical as someone asking you to provide a detailed log of your purchases. Actually, that's not bad. If a bank asked me to provide them with a detailed log of all of my purchases before giving me a loan, I'd probably tell them to sod off. Why should a private company have any similar responsibility. On top of that, it isn't even their community at large who has a problem, so they are, effectively, being accountable to their customers (the ones who aren't asking for that information and would rather them tell those people requesting it to shove it up their asses). So roger than on the accountability. 

donger56

There is plenty to be critical of when it comes to SC. Fanboys will always fanboy and haters will always hate, but most people don't fall neatly into those extremes. The problem with SC isn't that is was very ambitious or that it took risks. The problem here is that you had this great sales pitch by someone who has a wonderful track record of selling amazing ideas and a crappy track record of actually delivering what he promised, when he promised it at the price he quoted. Roberts is an "idea guy" and that's obviously a really important part of gaming design. Unfortunately "idea guys" are not always the best managers of staff and budgets and just being practical in a business sense. I would have loved to have seen SC be what it was pitched to be, but after years of delays, crazy bloated mission creep, and the constant fragmentation of the project, you kind of have to see it for what it is. It may have been a huge success in terms of fund raising, but so far it hasn't done much in the way of making something that resembles a complete and playable game. It still looks like a tech demo after 5 years. I admire the ambition, just not the fact that they did it with 100mil worth of crowdfunding. Investors take risks, fans just get ripped off with these projects. 

LacedOpium

CrazKanuk said:

You miss the point. The point is that there are completely valid points, but that they are rarely argued, instead people opting for obscure and outlandish theories, coffee machines, and doors. 

Secondly, it's quite possible that CIG is the only company, now and in history, who is privately owned and yet has people marching on their lawn with pitchforks demanding accountability and transparency. That's a pretty lofty assumption, I know, but I can literally not think of a single instance past or present where a company has received so much information. Here's what it boils down to. When a door becomes a major concern of those who are "concerned" about the project, why in the world would you open your books? I applaud them. Murca doesn't give in to terrorist demands! 

Honestly? It's about as logical as someone asking you to provide a detailed log of your purchases. Actually, that's not bad. If a bank asked me to provide them with a detailed log of all of my purchases before giving me a loan, I'd probably tell them to sod off. Why should a private company have any similar responsibility. On top of that, it isn't even their community at large who has a problem, so they are, effectively, being accountable to their customers (the ones who aren't asking for that information and would rather them tell those people requesting it to shove it up their asses). So roger than on the accountability. 

... And that bank would tell you to take a hike and not give you that loan.

There has never been another gaming company who has reached the lofty pledge dollars that CIG has reached.  No one was raising pitches and forks until the funds pledged where reaching the 100,000 mark with nothing to show for it.  And yet they continued releasing more and more ship art asking for more and more money.

What I want to know is what is wrong with asking for a bit "transparency and accountability" for people who had provided CIG with often times tens of thousands of dollars to realize their vision?  No one is saying that CIG has to be accountable, it was a request for them to do so.  The real puzzle here is why anyone would be against such a request.  Where is the need for the defenders of CIG in this incident to shield them from having to provide a bit of "transparency and accountability?"  Accountability and transparency isn't a bad thing.  This is something that should be afforded to anyone who has come out of their pocked and given to realize a dream project.  If there is nothing wrong, where is the harm in providing such transparency and accountability.  More importantly, why would a company refuse to provided such transparency and accountability if everything is legit and "above board?"

We all recognize that they don't have to do anything.  The concern is why would they refuse to do so in the first place.  I'll answer that ... because where there is smoke, there is usually fire.

filmoret

They need something to cut down first.

Erillion

LacedOpium said:

 I'll answer that ... because where there is smoke, there is usually fire.

Or someone with a big mouth, a short temper and a smoke grenade ....


Have fun

Andel_Skaar

Thx for all the info people, its quite busy for me this year work related ,but ill have time near the end of the year, Freelancer Discovery fan here ,so i really want to see SC go above and beyond.

When will it be released?

LacedOpium

Erillion said:

LacedOpium said:

 I'll answer that ... because where there is smoke, there is usually fire.

Or someone with a big mouth, a short temper and a smoke grenade ....


Have fun

I pose a host of sincere questions in my post and yet the best you can do is come back with a quick cheap ad hominem attack against your nemesis, DS.

Typical of you CIG supporters.

Erillion

Andel_Skaar said:

When will it be released?

Squadron 42 - according to the CIG website - will be released in 2016. My personal estimate would be late in the year for the X-mas shopping.

Star Citizen Multiplayer aka Persistent Universe  has no fixed release date. My personal estimate since the Oct 2012 start of the crowdfunding campaign would be end of next year, around November 2017 (after around 5 years of development). Most likely some parts (some ships, some systems, some landing zones) will come after that date, but by then I expect all major game mechanics to be in place and a significant amount of the universe up and running.

If you are interested, there are a TON of fan made videos about Star Citizen on Youtube, from the current ongoing Alpha testing. Or here in this subforum (e.g. in the "Community Hub" thread).


Have fun

Kefo

Andel_Skaar said:

Thx for all the info people, its quite busy for me this year work related ,but ill have time near the end of the year, Freelancer Discovery fan here ,so i really want to see SC go above and beyond.

When will it be released?

That's a question even CR couldn't answer

Erillion

LacedOpium said:

Erillion said:

LacedOpium said:

 I'll answer that ... because where there is smoke, there is usually fire.

Or someone with a big mouth, a short temper and a smoke grenade ....


Have fun

I pose a host of sincere questions in my post and yet the best you can do is come back with a quick cheap ad hominem attack against your nemesis, DS.

Typical of you CIG supporters.

Do you find any mention of DS in my post ?   ;-)


Have fun

CrazKanuk

LacedOpium said:

CrazKanuk said:

You miss the point. The point is that there are completely valid points, but that they are rarely argued, instead people opting for obscure and outlandish theories, coffee machines, and doors. 

Secondly, it's quite possible that CIG is the only company, now and in history, who is privately owned and yet has people marching on their lawn with pitchforks demanding accountability and transparency. That's a pretty lofty assumption, I know, but I can literally not think of a single instance past or present where a company has received so much information. Here's what it boils down to. When a door becomes a major concern of those who are "concerned" about the project, why in the world would you open your books? I applaud them. Murca doesn't give in to terrorist demands! 

Honestly? It's about as logical as someone asking you to provide a detailed log of your purchases. Actually, that's not bad. If a bank asked me to provide them with a detailed log of all of my purchases before giving me a loan, I'd probably tell them to sod off. Why should a private company have any similar responsibility. On top of that, it isn't even their community at large who has a problem, so they are, effectively, being accountable to their customers (the ones who aren't asking for that information and would rather them tell those people requesting it to shove it up their asses). So roger than on the accountability. 

... And that bank would tell you to take a hike and not give you that loan.

There has never been another gaming company who has reached the lofty pledge dollars that CIG has reached.  No one was raising pitches and forks until the funds pledged where reaching the 100,000 mark with nothing to show for it, and yet they kept releasing more and more ship art asking for more.

What I want to know is what is wrong with asking for a bit "transparency and accountability" for people who had provided CIG with often times tens of thousands of dollars to realize their vision?  No one is saying that CIG has to be accountable, it was a request for them to do so.  The real puzzle here is why anyone would be against such a request.  Where is the need for the defenders of CIG in this incident to shield them from having to provide a bit of "transparency and accountability?"  Accountability and transparency isn't a bad thing.  This is something that should be afforded to anyone who has come out of their pocked and given to realize a dream project.  If there is nothing wrong, where is the harm in providing such transparency and accountability.  More importantly, why would a company refuse to provided such transparency and accountability if everything is legit and "above board?"

We all recognize that they don't have to do anything.  The concern is why would they refuse to do so in the first place.  I'll answer that ... because where there is smoke, there is usually fire.

Ok, so to address the first part. There is nothing to gain by releasing their books. Period. The only people who care about their books are those so-called Poppy Cutters. It's essentially like someone saying that they want to kill you and then you handing them a loaded gun. The fact of the matter is that it wouldn't matter what the books showed, there would ultimately be ammunition for someone, just like you make the assumption that because they won't open their books, there must be wrong-doing. Never mind that, oh, 0% of privately held companies in the world open their books to their customers upon request. I supposed by that same logic, every privately-held company in the world is crooked or "on fire", as you put it. 

Secondly, there has been a lot less fuss over worse situations. Take a look at Greed Monger, for instance. There was, what, maybe a couple posts? Yes, SC is bigger, and it has more money. Do you honestly believe that if SC never shipped there wouldn't be some kind of legal action? I hate to say it, but if there is fire then you might as well let it burn because the house is already engulfed (like the majority of the money is likely gonzo). At this point, anyone who has not asked for a refund needs to take responsibility for that decision themselves. They had 6-months of this topic when it was white-hot and if they didn't get a refund while they were readily available, well bad on them because CIG offered voluntary refunds for years. For those who willingly leave their money in there, if it's a fire then I guess it's a fire and we'll all just have to grab a bag of marshmallows while we all burn.

However, the assumption of "fire" is completely unwarranted because there are no companies, or very very few, who are privately held and adhere to this level of transparency. I would go as far as to say there are literally zero, but I'm sure that one or two companies somewhere have that transparency, among the hundreds of thousands who don't. 

Do you really believe that it's of benefit to CIG to release these numbers? Do you really believe, assuming you've seen some of the hilarious conspiracy theories posted on here, that transparency is something that would benefit them? 

filmoret

LacedOpium said:

13lake said:

This is the best comment on that video by : Danakar "Quicksilver" Endeel

"You can trace this back to 1990 where Derek Smart was mucking around with his Battlecruiser game and trying to find a publisher when Chris Roberts stole the stage with Wing Commander. But instead of taking it in stride and improve upon his own game Derek sent nasty messages to Origin demanding to stop publishing Wing Commander or he would sue them for 'stealing his ideas'.

 Fast forward to 2012. Derek Smart is once again mucking around with Line of Defense (which should have been out in Summer 2012 already) and Chris Roberts takes the stage with the Star Citizen Kickstarter project.

 So yeah, that likely pushed Derek over the edge as history was going to repeat itself. He even backed on the last day of Kickstarter with $250 thinking it would give him a legal foothold in the company. But his plans failed when CIG refunded his pledge as per the Kickstarter ToS and it turned him into a raging howler monkey.

 And after nearly a year of constant online harassment, stalking, libel and doxxing during his FUD-campaign the only thing mister fake-PhD Derek Smart achieved was getting banned from multiple forums, shadowbanned from Reddit for creating a hatesub, a 24 hour suspension on Twitter and his own 'game' pulled from Steam. :P

 His selfproclaimed 'industry reach' is that of an old man yelling at clouds."

You are reaching with your Derek Smart hate.  Smart wasn't the only person fed up with CIGs antics.  There had been plenty of posts all over the net regarding CIGs peddling of ships.  It was a constant stream of ship art sales with nothing to show for it.  As a concerned pledger of the project, Smart simply expressed the same concern many other pledgers had been having regarding the project and he gave voice to the thousands of people who had been saying the same things he eventually gave voice to and clamoring for a bit of "transparency and accountability."

The shame with you pro-CIG people, is that instead of attacking the message you decided to attack the messenger.  This gave you a convenient excuse to make it about Smart instead of making it about the issue at hand.  All you hear about with you pro-CIG folk is "Derek Smart."  You are all obsessed with the man and little do you realize that your obsession with the man has made him bigger, and given him a greater platform, by which to do exactly that which you are attempting to deny him.  This is not, and has never been, about Derek Smart. 

You have to admit that video which contains footage from gameplay is impressive.  They have come a long way it seems and still have a long way to go.  I am in no way a fanboy and Erillion will tell you when it comes to logical criticizing then I am on the front lines asking questions and taking names.  Derek Smart is not a good model for any argument against CIG.  Considering the guy has shot himself in the foot so many times IDK how he is even walking around.  Self proclaimed CIG prophet who has predicted about 100 things that haven't come true and a lot of them are clearly bullcrap.  There are many things yet to be seen about CIG and yes it would help if they were a little more transparent. 

I believe what I see and we are at that stage where we just have to wait and see what happens because all the theory crafting has been presented and noone has come out a clear victor.  But the door does swing both ways where some people criticize everything CIG does and other people defend everything they do.  

LacedOpium

Erillion said:

LacedOpium said:

Erillion said:

LacedOpium said:

 I'll answer that ... because where there is smoke, there is usually fire.

Or someone with a big mouth, a short temper and a smoke grenade ....


Have fun

I pose a host of sincere questions in my post and yet the best you can do is come back with a quick cheap ad hominem attack against your nemesis, DS.

Typical of you CIG supporters.

Do you find any mention of DS in my post ?   ;-)


Have fun

Given the topic at hand that is clearly the implication, whether intended or not.  I will, however, let it go since its relevancy clearly escapes you, or at least it purports to do so.