That haven't "won" anything until they release a game that matches the talk and is received as being worthy of all the lofty promises. Until that happens people will continue to be sceptical and critical, suck it up summer child.
Star Citizen, as it currently stands, is an embarrassment for crowdfunding and gaming. The only thing it has been successful at is getting hyped up fans to open their wallets.
I'm not even willing to acknowledge it's a tall flower... so what category does that dump me into?
Talking to someone about Star Citizen is a little like asking a person if they believe in God. Some do, some don't, both feel passionately about the subject, and there isn't a scrap of middle ground between the two of them.
However, the "naysayers" have a massive position of advantage, because no matter how much the true believers wax on about all the spoils waiting for them in the long-delayed afterlife, it remains nothing but smoke and mirrors.
They already won because they have the funding to stay independent. They can follow their vision through and through without compromises for the sake of a Publisher's whim. The thing that haters and cynics don't get, is that you can back and support Star Citizen and still understand that CIG, Chris Roberts are not perfect and are sometimes can be wrong, they know that that's why they adapt with their mistakes and you can see that has the game development changed with the times. With the cheer scope and magnitude of this game and how far they have come, basically from nothing deserve nothing but praise from the gaming community. Haters gona Hate because they have nothing else to hang on. The continuous success of Star Citizen gets to them in ways they never tought lol, they kick & shout with every new update, they cringe as more millions and new backers sign in. It's one of the most satisfying things from following this game progress, is how the haters and naysayers keep eating their words and twisting their narratives to fill that fud campaign.
Delicious! What a time to be gamer!
Sure, they were successful at becoming independent. They did a good job at presenting their vision and alot of people have decided to support them since then which is great. Now, we have to wait and see if they will succeed at meeting the expectations because the more donations come in, the more people will expect to see.
Your whole rant about haters and their ''jealousy'' sounds like something taken out of a Trump speech. Quite fitting I guess, to shit on everybody who disagrees with you. There is always going to be haters who are going to hate nontheless. However, there is also alot of people who are presenting logical concerns and these people's opinions are more important than what you think, because you always have to look at people's opinions regardless if they fit your agenda or not.
Worshipping developers and their project is fine, however, you would better expect people to disagree with you. Because not everybody have the same rosy glasses that you are wearing with pride. Humanbeings are different, believe it or not, and just because they are not like you doesn't mean they are stupid.. in fact you maybe the stupid one without realizing it (or anybody else for that matter, this isn't meant as an insult).
It's a combination of things amplified by the horrific scope of the project. The more that they promised the less it looks like they are delivering on. It's taken 4 years just to get to this point, which is a pretty basic one system playspace that has only just got its first game loop, they've got another 99 systems to map out and fill along with an absolute mountain of features and mechanics to add to the game. Then there's all this talk about 300 people, industry vets and magical germans, with that in mind you kind of expect better and faster, these are people who are meant to know what they're doing, how the machine works, have experience with the game engine etc, there's lots and lots of talk but not so much action. There are so many things that haven't even been nailed down, things that are core to the game, it just makes you start wondering wtf they've been doing all this time and where their focus has been.
Personally I couldn't care less if it succeeds or fails. If it's good I'll play it and enjoy my $45 spent. If it fails then I'll laugh and wish I used the $45 on something more worthwhile. It's not personal to me at all.
There was a guy in the SC thread on the frontier forums who was always banging on about the germans doing all the things no one else could with cryengine, procedural generation etc. The way he made it sound you would think the project was going to live or die depending on the Frankfurt's input, magical germans indeed.
I dunno about Magic Germans as the team in the Frankfurt Studio is comprised with multi-national staff. The only thing they have in common is being the best at their job and masters of CryEngine. That's why Star Citizen / Squadron42 will be the game to look up to in terms of tech, scope and bang 4 buck.
They already won because they have the funding to stay independent. They can follow their vision through and through without compromises for the sake of a Publisher's whim. The thing that haters and cynics don't get, is that you can back and support Star Citizen and still understand that CIG, Chris Roberts are not perfect and are sometimes can be wrong, they know that that's why they adapt with their mistakes and you can see that has the game development changed with the times. With the cheer scope and magnitude of this game and how far they have come, basically from nothing deserve nothing but praise from the gaming community. Haters gona Hate because they have nothing else to hang on. The continuous success of Star Citizen gets to them in ways they never tought lol, they kick & shout with every new update, they cringe as more millions and new backers sign in. It's one of the most satisfying things from following this game progress, is how the haters and naysayers keep eating their words and twisting their narratives to fill that fud campaign.
Delicious! What a time to be gamer!
Sure, they were successful at becoming independent. They did a good job at presenting their vision and alot of people have decided to support them since then which is great. Now, we have to wait and see if they will succeed at meeting the expectations because the more donations come in, the more people will expect to see.
Your whole rant about haters and their ''jealousy'' sounds like something taken out of a Trump speech. Quite fitting I guess, to shit on everybody who disagrees with you. There is always going to be haters who are going to hate nontheless. However, there is also alot of people who are presenting logical concerns and these people's opinions are more important than what you think, because you always have to look at people's opinions regardless if they fit your agenda or not.
Worshipping developers and their project is fine, however, you would better expect people to disagree with you. Because not everybody have the same rosy glasses that you are wearing with pride. Humanbeings are different, believe it or not, and just because they are not like you doesn't mean they are stupid.. in fact you maybe the stupid one without realizing it (or anybody else for that matter, this isn't meant as an insult).
I'm guessing reading comprehension isn't your strong point. As I've stated many times, I'm fine with people being critical of SC and am a SC skeptic myself. However there is a determined contingent of people who spend hours of their days doing nothing but attempting to defame, undermine, vilify, malign, and destroy this game project. You know the guys I mean, the ones who come here and continually stir up trouble, get banned, create numerous alts to come back here and do it all over again, because for some reason hating SC has become their raison d'etre. Those people are not critics, they are little better than deranged stalkers. Those are the people I mean. Which is particularly funny considering your weak attempt to character assassinate me by using the Trump comparison, as its those very people who fit that particular anthology to a T.
EDIT: Oh yeah forgot, worshiping developers in not fine at all in my book. Especially ones who have gotten where they are with other peoples money. Those people should be watched very carefully. I just see a massive difference between being watchful and trying to destroy them because they have become successful.
I mean, jcrg99 around here has to be the most obsessed person with Star Citizen i ever knew or saw on the Internet, no Star Citizen "defender" even compares to the several years of his life dedicated to attack Star Citizen in literally EVERY single place on the internet i've saw content regarding this game... from media websites to internet forums (of gaming in general and several other games), to social networks and the list goes on.
I remember jcrg99 crusades against SC, even before I backed SC, actually more than 1 year before i backed it if i recall correctly. As i searched on this game it was impossible not to notice jcrg99, he was and it seems it still is... everywhere this game is mentioned. Have been what, 3, 4 years of this?! That... that is impressive.
I usually poke on MMORPG to find news and what's up with MMO's around that i may or not play, this just caught my attention here, as i could only find kinda hilarious the claims of "the well known people dedicated to defend one game"... like... Look at the mirror, the mirror has this thing it just... the perfect mirror image of one's equal. It's just mind-blowing how the person i almost knew before i even knew Star Citizen points at others their dedication "defending SC" when they don't even compare to his dedication doing the complete opposite (mirror stuff!).
Y'know this is all irrelevant, internet forum crusaders do not matter on the bigger picture of things of the success or not of this game so.... some will continue the crusades while others will continue to play a game!
Not even close, I dunno who you have been talking with, but Chris was not "cocooned in the safety of Origin Systems" lol . His visionary design aproaches were seen as risky for the time because they were never tried, they were unprecedented (Just like in Freelancer and now Star Citizen). I suggest you do some homework before telling jokes as facts
Both Warren Spector and Richard Garriot have the utmost respect for Chris Roberts as they are all Game Developers with a strong sense of vision and game design awareness. And that goes to a lot of other legend Game Dev´s like Tony Zurovec.
Knock yourself out:
I don't think those videos do everything you think they do.
The one with Garriott shows that Chris, supposed space game maven for decades, doesn't understand momentum and inertia in zero G.
Zurovec seems to be well thought of in game circles, but was also at Digital Anvil, Chris's game company that released exactly ZERO games in-house, despite four years of work, and many millions of dollars spent. So, despite his abilities, the result was nada. Digital Anvil was also the first time Chris was solely in charge of game development. Looks like a pattern.
On Immersion, yeah, Roberts gets thumbs up from folks who otherwise have little good to say about him. It's the area where he had some cool ideas.
There's nothing in the Spector interview about 'utmost respect' for Roberts. Pretty sure that Warren was brought in to help get WC out in a reasonable time frame. I'll ask him the next time I see him.
Legends. Some are real people mythologized far beyond their actual situation.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Who really cares where criticism is coming from,all that matters is and has this Chris guy delivered with tons of money and manpower? Answer is NO...end of discussion.
Perhaps we can continue finger pointing AFTER the fact when he finally gets a triple A project completed,but imo it will never reach triple A status.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
He already got a triple A project completed, several actually. Wing Commander & Freelancer were top of the crop in their time. Try again.
Freelancer never released under Chris rule. He sold the studio after never releasing a game in house. After Microsoft took over they cut features and brought it in line with reality so it would see the light of day.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
He already got a triple A project completed, several actually. Wing Commander & Freelancer were top of the crop in their time. Try again.
Freelancer never released under Chris rule. He sold the studio after never releasing a game in house. After Microsoft took over they cut features and brought it in line with reality so it would see the light of day.
Yeah, Freelancer was a year and a half late, and out of money when Digital Anvil was sold to Microsoft. That's in Roberts words. It took MS another three years to get the final version out. Seven years.
In WC he shared designer credit with two others, and wasn't even tabbed to do WC2. One of the other designers was. The one who solved the programming problems in the first WC.
His Strike Commander game was three years late. It wasted over a million man hours of development. In Chris's own words.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
I had not read anything on Strke Commander before, interesting how history appears to repeat itself.
The Strike Commander project took more than four years and over a
million man hours on background development. Very little of that
production time turned out to be actually usable in the final product,
as at least one and possibly several complete project "reboots" were
required to refine the graphical engine to a playable state.
Interesting bit: In the Garriott: Game Designers Suck article, he mentions Roberts, himself, Will Wright, Peter Molyneux as the really good game designers. Romero also appeared in the early Game Gods video with Chris. Commonality there is that all of those folks did their fairly ground breaking work in the early days of computer game design. But if you look at their recent work, it is a pretty dry well. Truth said, it is not easy to be continually innovative, creative, and on the mark. And as the teams get bigger, the skills needed to run them successfully, change. Don't know about the others, but Roberts and Garriott are not good project managers at that level. It certainly doesn't help Roberts that he's utterly in love with his great big ego. Like some of his fans.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
I had not read anything on Strke Commander before, interesting how history appears to repeat itself.
The Strike Commander project took more than four years and over a
million man hours on background development. Very little of that
production time turned out to be actually usable in the final product,
as at least one and possibly several complete project "reboots" were
required to refine the graphical engine to a playable state.
You could continue that quote ;-) ....
"Very little of that production time turned out to be actually usable in the final product,..."
--> "....Nevertheless, some successful gameplay elements from Strike Commander
were re-used by other more notable Origin products such as Privateer and the Wing Commander series."
I had not read anything on Strke Commander before, interesting how history appears to repeat itself.
The Strike Commander project took more than four years and over a
million man hours on background development. Very little of that
production time turned out to be actually usable in the final product,
as at least one and possibly several complete project "reboots" were
required to refine the graphical engine to a playable state.
You could continue that quote ;-) ....
"Very little of that production time turned out to be actually usable in the final product,..."
--> "....Nevertheless, some successful gameplay elements from Strike Commander
were re-used by other more notable Origin products such as Privateer and the Wing Commander series."
Have fun
IE, they reused parts of the the Strike Commander engine a lot afterwords.
After all that wasted development, I guess they would. My estimate of a million man hours corresponds to somewhere between 3 months-plus equivalent work of the entire Star Citizen team. Depending on crunch levels.
Oh, SC and SC. Synchronicity.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Comments
Star Citizen, as it currently stands, is an embarrassment for crowdfunding and gaming. The only thing it has been successful at is getting hyped up fans to open their wallets.
Talking to someone about Star Citizen is a little like asking a person if they believe in God. Some do, some don't, both feel passionately about the subject, and there isn't a scrap of middle ground between the two of them.
However, the "naysayers" have a massive position of advantage, because no matter how much the true believers wax on about all the spoils waiting for them in the long-delayed afterlife, it remains nothing but smoke and mirrors.
Or, dare I say it, VAPOR?!
Sure, they were successful at becoming independent. They did a good job at presenting their vision and alot of people have decided to support them since then which is great. Now, we have to wait and see if they will succeed at meeting the expectations because the more donations come in, the more people will expect to see.
Your whole rant about haters and their ''jealousy'' sounds like something taken out of a Trump speech. Quite fitting I guess, to shit on everybody who disagrees with you. There is always going to be haters who are going to hate nontheless. However, there is also alot of people who are presenting logical concerns and these people's opinions are more important than what you think, because you always have to look at people's opinions regardless if they fit your agenda or not.
Worshipping developers and their project is fine, however, you would better expect people to disagree with you. Because not everybody have the same rosy glasses that you are wearing with pride. Humanbeings are different, believe it or not, and just because they are not like you doesn't mean they are stupid.. in fact you maybe the stupid one without realizing it (or anybody else for that matter, this isn't meant as an insult).
It's taken 4 years just to get to this point, which is a pretty basic one system playspace that has only just got its first game loop, they've got another 99 systems to map out and fill along with an absolute mountain of features and mechanics to add to the game.
Then there's all this talk about 300 people, industry vets and magical germans, with that in mind you kind of expect better and faster, these are people who are meant to know what they're doing, how the machine works, have experience with the game engine etc, there's lots and lots of talk but not so much action.
There are so many things that haven't even been nailed down, things that are core to the game, it just makes you start wondering wtf they've been doing all this time and where their focus has been.
Personally I couldn't care less if it succeeds or fails. If it's good I'll play it and enjoy my $45 spent. If it fails then I'll laugh and wish I used the $45 on something more worthwhile. It's not personal to me at all.
*** smile *** where did THAT come from?
Have fun
I mean, jcrg99 around here has to be the most obsessed person with Star Citizen i ever knew or saw on the Internet, no Star Citizen "defender" even compares to the several years of his life dedicated to attack Star Citizen in literally EVERY single place on the internet i've saw content regarding this game... from media websites to internet forums (of gaming in general and several other games), to social networks and the list goes on.
I remember jcrg99 crusades against SC, even before I backed SC, actually more than 1 year before i backed it if i recall correctly. As i searched on this game it was impossible not to notice jcrg99, he was and it seems it still is... everywhere this game is mentioned. Have been what, 3, 4 years of this?! That... that is impressive.
I usually poke on MMORPG to find news and what's up with MMO's around that i may or not play, this just caught my attention here, as i could only find kinda hilarious the claims of "the well known people dedicated to defend one game"... like... Look at the mirror, the mirror has this thing it just... the perfect mirror image of one's equal. It's just mind-blowing how the person i almost knew before i even knew Star Citizen points at others their dedication "defending SC" when they don't even compare to his dedication doing the complete opposite (mirror stuff!).
Y'know this is all irrelevant, internet forum crusaders do not matter on the bigger picture of things of the success or not of this game so.... some will continue the crusades while others will continue to play a game!
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
http://www.usgamer.net/articles/chris-roberts-star-citizen-profile
http://www.pcgamer.com/richard-garriott-game-designers-suck/
http://www.wired.com/2016/03/geeks-guide-warren-spector/
http://www.pcgamesn.com/i-ve-met-virtually-no-one-i-think-close-good-game-designer-i-am-richard-garriott
http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/715384/back-on-the-flight-deck-an-interview-with-wing-commanders-chris-roberts/
http://ultimacodex.com/2013/03/richard-garriott-and-chris-roberts-game-changers/
http://www.gamersnexus.net/news/1855-future-of-mmorpgs-pax-east
http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=9190
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2042692/why-warren-spector-is-taking-a-vacation-and-going-back-to-school.html
Enjoy
Answer is NO...end of discussion.
Perhaps we can continue finger pointing AFTER the fact when he finally gets a triple A project completed,but imo it will never reach triple A status.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20121010005857/en/Legendary-Designer-Chris-Roberts-Making-Re-entry-PC
Yeah, Freelancer was a year and a half late, and out of money when Digital Anvil was sold to Microsoft. That's in Roberts words. It took MS another three years to get the final version out. Seven years.
In WC he shared designer credit with two others, and wasn't even tabbed to do WC2. One of the other designers was. The one who solved the programming problems in the first WC.
His Strike Commander game was three years late. It wasted over a million man hours of development. In Chris's own words.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
"Very little of that production time turned out to be actually usable in the final product,..."
--> "....Nevertheless, some successful gameplay elements from Strike Commander were re-used by other more notable Origin products such as Privateer and the Wing Commander series."
Have fun
IE, they reused parts of the the Strike Commander engine a lot afterwords.
After all that wasted development, I guess they would. My estimate of a million man hours corresponds to somewhere between 3 months-plus equivalent work of the entire Star Citizen team. Depending on crunch levels.
Oh, SC and SC. Synchronicity.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.