Just because they suddenly decide to use things that have been around for 20 years or more (Red Faction had destructible environment and buildings in 2001, games had branching storylines in the '90s which only got picked up again in like 2010 or so)?
And destructible environment etc. neither is enough on it's own to make a game good, nor it's necessarily a good idea to add it to a game, nor it's necessarily done in a good way, even if it would be in theory make the game better.
And judging from the video, it's "scripted" what you can destroy and what not. "Nice castle wall. Would be a shame if someone would puff against it". But: "Ah wooden fence? Too bad we didn't bring siege weapons with us"
I'll wait to the day's end when the moon is high And then I'll rise with the tide with a lust for life, I'll Amass an army, and we'll harness a horde And then we'll limp across the land until we stand at the shore
It is not an argument at all. You are making it one. When you don't have a cogent and rational line of rebuttal you shut down and exit the conversation. We are all aware of your lack of rational abilities in regards to intellectual discourse. Sometimes it is fun to see just how deep into that rabbit hole you will go. Like a weird reality show. Cheers!
I am not here to talk about how all games are games and thus one can not talk about the difference between them.
now please...
You actually are not here to talk at all. You are here to spread an agenda
There is only one thing that separates AAA from Indie games. Money.
not exactly.
dunbar's number is different with advantages toward indie
profit motive for publically traded companies or companies owned by publically traded companies is far more explicit and even legally binding (which often reduces quality)
Decision makers in larger firms usually more interested in playing Golf then they are video games.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
You actually are not here to talk at all. You are here to spread an agenda
There is only one thing that separates AAA from Indie games. Money.
not exactly.
dunbar's number is different with advantages toward indie
profit motive for publically traded companies or companies owned by publically traded companies is far more explicit and even legally binding (which often reduces quality)
Decision makers in larger firms usually more interested in playing Golf then they are video games.
Again. Budget. Civ games are the deepest games on the market and they are AAA by a large company. Hearts of Iron is AAA and one of the deepest tactical strategy game series on the market. This whole anti AAA agenda you have just falls apart with every post. Being Indie does not make a game better. Being AAA does not make a game bad. I have played many crap indie titles even more so than AAA ones to be honest.
we will have to disagree.
dunbar's number
profit motive
who is in charge
who gets to review
I have a long list of indie titles that have been around for a long time that are not even reviewed by Gamespot. Think that doesnt make a difference in exposure? think that doesnt make a difference in how games get compared to others? because the pool that AAA swims in I cant take the lifeguards views (gamespot, IGN etc and extension the 'review' culture) to tell me that their games are better than indies. I have played both and I think its certifiable horse manure.
I know you disagree with me but having played both AAA titles and indie titles I have to say regardless of what IGN says on the matter on average indies are better.
and I have to add that ONE GAME is not an average
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
@SEANMCAD You're talking a specific genre rather than AAA vs Indie.
I'll give you a list of AAA games.
Cities Skylines The Sims Starcraft 2 Doom Fallout 4 X Com 2 Hearts of Iron 4
A variety of games ranging from building sims, grand strategy to FPS, RPGs.
There's also variety within the indie scene that's why I agree with @blueturtle13 they're just games.
here is my assement of those
Cities Skylines - awesome game and when it came out it was refered to as indie game so many times it made my ears bleed. Many conversations on how AAA SimCity failed and how this indie project was a success. By measures I can get into with more depth this is not a AAA title.
The Sims - yes a rare exception and one of my all time favorite games
Starcraft 2 - never played
Doom - was ABSOLUTLY a indie game when it was made.
Fallout 4 - I played Fallout 3 and I hated it with a passion. it was restrictive with the illusion of freedom
X Com 2 - Not bad but I personally like Slient Storm 2 better
Hearts of Iron 4 - never played
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Not sure what Dunbar's Number has to do with it. Dunbar's number is a cognitive limit to the number of people with whom one can maintain stable social relationships. Which Jacob Morgan systematically dismantled in exquisite style. Read Morten Hansen to educate yourself about that.
I respect the fact that you disagree. I really do. Yet to not play any AAA games does not really put you in a position of unbiased judgement. If you have not played the AAA games that are amazing, deep and engaging titles how can you form a case against them? You can't so it comes across as an agenda. Not intellectual discourse.
Dunbar's Number suggests that organizational efficeny starts to degrade rapidly for creative projects when the team is around a set number I think that number. anyone who has worked on a small project compared to a large project already knows this as instict which I have.
small projects (even more so in software development) are much more rapid, and better to repsond to changes then larger ones.
that is what Dunbar's Number is all about.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Cities Skylines - awesome game and when it came out it was refered to as indie game so many times it made my ears bleed. Many conversations on how AAA SimCity failed and how this indie project was a success. By measures I can get into with more depth this is not a AAA title.
Doom - was ABSOLUTLY a indie game when it was made.
I was talking about the new Doom, id today are not indie.
You were miss-informed about Cities Skylines. Not an indie title, not when you've got Paradox Interactive backing you and Cities in Motion titles under your belt.
Not sure what Dunbar's Number has to do with it. Dunbar's number is a cognitive limit to the number of people with whom one can maintain stable social relationships. Which Jacob Morgan systematically dismantled in exquisite style. Read Morten Hansen to educate yourself about that.
I respect the fact that you disagree. I really do. Yet to not play any AAA games does not really put you in a position of unbiased judgement. If you have not played the AAA games that are amazing, deep and engaging titles how can you form a case against them? You can't so it comes across as an agenda. Not intellectual discourse.
Dunbar's Number suggests that organizational efficeny starts to degrade rapidly for creative projects when the team is around a set number I think that number. anyone who has worked on a small project compared to a large project already knows this as instict which I have.
small projects (even more so in software development) are much more rapid, and better to repsond to changes then larger ones.
that is what Dunbar's Number is all about.
Yeah I know what it is and the number is 150. Still does not apply to this conversation.
yes I am sorry but it does
you are suggesting money makes a good game and I am explaining in detail why money can cause problems and in one of those ways its because the size of the project is to large (Dunbars number) now how you can not see how that applies is beyond my understanding so how about we just stop talking to each other?
you have derailed it enough
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Cities Skylines - awesome game and when it came out it was refered to as indie game so many times it made my ears bleed. Many conversations on how AAA SimCity failed and how this indie project was a success. By measures I can get into with more depth this is not a AAA title.
Doom - was ABSOLUTLY a indie game when it was made.
I was talking about the new Doom, id today are not indie.
You were miss-informed about Cities Skylines. Not an indie title, not when you've got Paradox Interactive backing you and Cities in Motion titles under your belt.
the new doom looks unbearably boring to me but I did all those random hop around shooters decades ago so that is just my view on the subject
Paradox Interactive and Cities in Motion is considered an indie company for reasons I have already explain..you are literally the first person I have read that suggest the oppositie of what endless threads about the explictly called 'indie' game City Skylines. In fact I bet right now I can find an article with said 'indie' title. let me look
Not sure what Dunbar's Number has to do with it. Dunbar's number is a cognitive limit to the number of people with whom one can maintain stable social relationships. Which Jacob Morgan systematically dismantled in exquisite style. Read Morten Hansen to educate yourself about that.
I respect the fact that you disagree. I really do. Yet to not play any AAA games does not really put you in a position of unbiased judgement. If you have not played the AAA games that are amazing, deep and engaging titles how can you form a case against them? You can't so it comes across as an agenda. Not intellectual discourse.
Dunbar's Number suggests that organizational efficeny starts to degrade rapidly for creative projects when the team is around a set number I think that number. anyone who has worked on a small project compared to a large project already knows this as instict which I have.
small projects (even more so in software development) are much more rapid, and better to repsond to changes then larger ones.
that is what Dunbar's Number is all about.
Yeah I know what it is and the number is 150. Still does not apply to this conversation.
yes I am sorry but it does
you are suggesting money makes a good game and I am explaining in detail why money can cause problems and in one of those ways its because the size of the project is to large (Dunbars number) now how you can not see how that applies is beyond my understanding so how about we just stop talking to each other?
you have derailed it enough
I never said money makes a good game. I said being Indie (little money) does not make a game good in and of it's self. I said being AAA (having money) does not make a game bad in and of it's self. The same is true the other way. Having money does not make a game good. Not having money does not make a game bad.
I have shown post after post games I think are awesome like Stardew Valley with out a budget that I love and some with a budget like Total War: Warhammer that I love. I like good games. Period. Does not matter what the budget it is to me. It matters who the developer is and how they craft the experience they are selling me. I am open minded to games. Not close minded.
ok in the future when you say 'its about the money' explain yourself for christ sake and try to resit not to change what you mean midstream. I am not suggesting you have I am just telling you, dont be that jackass.
I stick to my views that in general AAA games are not good. that they need some fixin, and that in general indies are better. you can disagree with me and that is fine, its my view and I am not alone in this view either
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Cities Skylines - awesome game and when it came out it was refered to as indie game so many times it made my ears bleed. Many conversations on how AAA SimCity failed and how this indie project was a success. By measures I can get into with more depth this is not a AAA title.
Doom - was ABSOLUTLY a indie game when it was made.
I was talking about the new Doom, id today are not indie.
You were miss-informed about Cities Skylines. Not an indie title, not when you've got Paradox Interactive backing you and Cities in Motion titles under your belt.
the new doom looks unbearably boring to me but I did all those random hop around shooters decades ago so that is just my view on the subject
Paradox Interactive and Cities in Motion is considered an indie company for reasons I have already explain..you are literally the first person I have read that suggest the oppositie of what endless threads about the explictly called 'indie' game City Skylines. In fact I bet right now I can find an article with said 'indie' title. let me look
Colossal Order is published by Paradox. A 'AAA' developer and publisher. Paradox tests, markets, sells and distributes all games by Colossal Order
two references to the game being refered to as an indie project. My personal experience having seen many conversations when it first came out about it being an indie title that was better than SimCity Online
second, what difference does it actually make? you want to talk about derailing a conversation? this would be it. we are talking (or at least TRYING TO) talk about the AAAs as a whole compared to indies as a whole, not get into a debate over if ONE GAME is or is not an indie title nor use ONE GAME as an example that AAAs are deep.
jebus
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Colossal Order is published by Paradox. A 'AAA' developer and publisher.
Paradox tests, markets, sells and distributes all games by Colossal Order
two references to the game being refered to as an indie project. My personal experience having seen many conversations when it first came out about it being an indie title that was better than SimCity Online
second, what difference does it actually make? you want to talk about derailing a conversation? this would be it. we are talking (or at least TRYING TO) talk about the AAAs as a whole compared to indies as a whole, not get into a debate over if ONE GAME is or is not an indie title nor use ONE GAME as an example that AAAs are deep.
jebus
Try to keep up on this one. CO makes City Skylines and Cities in Motion. Correct? Correct. Paradox publishes their games. Markets their games. Q&A's their games. Distributes their games. Sells their games. Hardly what an Indie studio does huh. Sounds like a Bioware relationship with EA
stop derailing this conversation
this conversation is not about ONE game.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Comments
You couldn't possibly be trying any harder.
And destructible environment etc. neither is enough on it's own to make a game good, nor it's necessarily a good idea to add it to a game, nor it's necessarily done in a good way, even if it would be in theory make the game better.
And judging from the video, it's "scripted" what you can destroy and what not. "Nice castle wall. Would be a shame if someone would puff against it". But: "Ah wooden fence? Too bad we didn't bring siege weapons with us"
I'll wait to the day's end when the moon is high
And then I'll rise with the tide with a lust for life, I'll
Amass an army, and we'll harness a horde
And then we'll limp across the land until we stand at the shore
Did AAA ever stop changing...?
In my mind it did not. We have had a pretty much constant evolution of the medium for the last 30+ years.
Another question could be, does the lack of a development towards (insert your own favorite feature) invalidate the change that has happen
This have been a good conversation
dunbar's number is different with advantages toward indie
profit motive for publically traded companies or companies owned by publically traded companies is far more explicit and even legally binding (which often reduces quality)
Decision makers in larger firms usually more interested in playing Golf then they are video games.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I'll give you a list of AAA games.
Cities Skylines
The Sims
Starcraft 2
Doom
Fallout 4
X Com 2
Hearts of Iron 4
A variety of games ranging from building sims, grand strategy to FPS, RPGs.
There's also variety within the indie scene that's why I agree with @blueturtle13 they're just games.
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
dunbar's number
profit motive
who is in charge
who gets to review
I have a long list of indie titles that have been around for a long time that are not even reviewed by Gamespot. Think that doesnt make a difference in exposure? think that doesnt make a difference in how games get compared to others? because the pool that AAA swims in I cant take the lifeguards views (gamespot, IGN etc and extension the 'review' culture) to tell me that their games are better than indies. I have played both and I think its certifiable horse manure.
I know you disagree with me but having played both AAA titles and indie titles I have to say regardless of what IGN says on the matter on average indies are better.
and I have to add that ONE GAME is not an average
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Cities Skylines - awesome game and when it came out it was refered to as indie game so many times it made my ears bleed. Many conversations on how AAA SimCity failed and how this indie project was a success. By measures I can get into with more depth this is not a AAA title.
The Sims - yes a rare exception and one of my all time favorite games
Starcraft 2 - never played
Doom - was ABSOLUTLY a indie game when it was made.
Fallout 4 - I played Fallout 3 and I hated it with a passion. it was restrictive with the illusion of freedom
X Com 2 - Not bad but I personally like Slient Storm 2 better
Hearts of Iron 4 - never played
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
And a lot get released unfinished, especially the survival ones.
Whenever I see the Unity logo now I always cringe.
small projects (even more so in software development) are much more rapid, and better to repsond to changes then larger ones.
that is what Dunbar's Number is all about.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
You were miss-informed about Cities Skylines. Not an indie title, not when you've got Paradox Interactive backing you and Cities in Motion titles under your belt.
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
you are suggesting money makes a good game and I am explaining in detail why money can cause problems and in one of those ways its because the size of the project is to large (Dunbars number) now how you can not see how that applies is beyond my understanding so how about we just stop talking to each other?
you have derailed it enough
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
Paradox Interactive and Cities in Motion is considered an indie company for reasons I have already explain..you are literally the first person I have read that suggest the oppositie of what endless threads about the explictly called 'indie' game City Skylines. In fact I bet right now I can find an article with said 'indie' title. let me look
I dont want to spend a lifetime looking but I did find one community reference to 'indie'. yes I know its not the best find but there is one
https://www.facebook.com/IndieGames101/posts/671492699639562++
another: yes not as a good of a reference as I would like but at least its not nothing
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2015-08-04-cities-skylines-ark-and-more-indies-announced-for-xbox-one
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I stick to my views that in general AAA games are not good. that they need some fixin, and that in general indies are better. you can disagree with me and that is fine, its my view and I am not alone in this view either
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
My personal experience having seen many conversations when it first came out about it being an indie title that was better than SimCity Online
second, what difference does it actually make? you want to talk about derailing a conversation? this would be it. we are talking (or at least TRYING TO) talk about the AAAs as a whole compared to indies as a whole, not get into a debate over if ONE GAME is or is not an indie title nor use ONE GAME as an example that AAAs are deep.
jebus
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
derailing
this
conversation
this conversation is not about ONE game.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다