Just want to say, I was bored but you two made me laugh so keep on going!
(Pst. I'm rooting for you blue!)
i really wish he would go away. but i am sure others including him would wish I would too so there is that
I just think it is fun to mess with you. Slow day at the office
since we both have time why dont we compare skill feature lists in various games.
Out of Reach (currently been playing) (by what I am used this game is fairly basic. it has a ways to go but i would not put in on the 'complex' side of indie games) that said
91 craftable items (including Glider, trebuchet, boats, Ballista) and yes the craftable items all have a purpose
Wurm has 93 skills most of which have tangible purposes. I think the number of items you can make is something like 250
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I don't know if I'd call what's happening "changing" so much as hopping on the bandwagon and following the market trends. I would never call that a "change for the better". Because, it almost inherently means copying and not creating. Sure, you may get more polish from a AAA developer when they borrow an idea, but that won't make it original or new.
I'd love to see more AAA studios go back to what they used to do and create original and awesome ideas, instead of just riding the gravy-train of sequels and copying trends.
I don't know if I'd call what's happening "changing" so much as hopping on the bandwagon and following the market trends. I would never call that a "change for the better". Because, it almost inherently means copying and not creating. Sure, you may get more polish from a AAA developer when they borrow an idea, but that won't make it original or new.
I'd love to see more AAA studios go back to what they used to do and create original and awesome ideas, instead of just riding the gravy-train of sequels and copying trends.
I think the difference now however compared to just 6-10 years ago is the effect of 'the crowd'. being able to accurately see what people wanted in a quick iteration and as a result have many variables rather than spending millions of dollars to serve them one dish and hope that they like it is giving us a wealth of data like we have never had before.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
indie game and AAA games are not alike, they are very different. They both might be great fun (at least to you) but they are radically different. I think you would have a hard time explain how they are the same and yet indies rarely ever have cut scenes and AAAs rarely have building features.
Are they both equally as fun? (you think so, I dont) but that is a different conversation from: 'AAA games, just like Indie games, are just games.' (implied being they mostly have the same features)
that statement is fundamentally not true and its not subjective, I can proove it.
I am not explaining this as well as I would like but I think you are smart enough to understand what I am saying and how I felt your statement implied what I am suggesting
Honestly all you're doing is taking a few examples and painting the whole indie scene with them. The standouts are just as rare in both AAA and indie alike. Both also have the same issue of pretenders cashing on on already successful ideas, like the ever growing number of build'ems, and survival games popping up left and right ever since dayz and Minecraft became in-things...
Don't even get me started on RPGmaker games...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
indie game and AAA games are not alike, they are very different. They both might be great fun (at least to you) but they are radically different. I think you would have a hard time explain how they are the same and yet indies rarely ever have cut scenes and AAAs rarely have building features.
Are they both equally as fun? (you think so, I dont) but that is a different conversation from: 'AAA games, just like Indie games, are just games.' (implied being they mostly have the same features)
that statement is fundamentally not true and its not subjective, I can proove it.
I am not explaining this as well as I would like but I think you are smart enough to understand what I am saying and how I felt your statement implied what I am suggesting
Honestly all you're doing is taking a few examples and painting the whole indie scene with them. The standouts are just as rare in both AAA and indie alike. Both also have the same issue of pretenders cashing on on already successful ideas, like the ever growing number of build'ems, and survival games popping up left and right ever since dayz and Minecraft became in-things...
Don't even get me started on RPGmaker games...
on the one hand people are saying 'oh no not another crafting building game enough all ready so many of them!' (vast majority of such games are indie games)
and on the other hand you are saying I am taking only a few examples when I am referring to indie games of this specific type.
think about that.
so which is it? market is over saturated with crafting/building/survial games or I am using a small subset of games as an example?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
indie game and AAA games are not alike, they are very different. They both might be great fun (at least to you) but they are radically different. I think you would have a hard time explain how they are the same and yet indies rarely ever have cut scenes and AAAs rarely have building features.
Are they both equally as fun? (you think so, I dont) but that is a different conversation from: 'AAA games, just like Indie games, are just games.' (implied being they mostly have the same features)
that statement is fundamentally not true and its not subjective, I can proove it.
I am not explaining this as well as I would like but I think you are smart enough to understand what I am saying and how I felt your statement implied what I am suggesting
Honestly all you're doing is taking a few examples and painting the whole indie scene with them. The standouts are just as rare in both AAA and indie alike. Both also have the same issue of pretenders cashing on on already successful ideas, like the ever growing number of build'ems, and survival games popping up left and right ever since dayz and Minecraft became in-things...
Don't even get me started on RPGmaker games...
Agreed. The Indie scene is so full of copy cat crap it is not even funny. It is really hard to even find a game on say Steam anymore because the vast majority are garbage. Both AAA and Indie games are guilty of the same thing. Rehashes, Copies and rushed to market games. Yeah and all those 'RPG' games being released on Steam using RPGMaker is just ugh......
however, in the context of this conversation I refer to 'building/survial/crafting' games as my examples. Yes I dont list them all but those are the games I am refering to in this conversation and yet people say there is a metric fuck ton of them. So is that me using limited examples? how so?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
indie game and AAA games are not alike, they are very different. They both might be great fun (at least to you) but they are radically different. I think you would have a hard time explain how they are the same and yet indies rarely ever have cut scenes and AAAs rarely have building features.
Are they both equally as fun? (you think so, I dont) but that is a different conversation from: 'AAA games, just like Indie games, are just games.' (implied being they mostly have the same features)
that statement is fundamentally not true and its not subjective, I can proove it.
I am not explaining this as well as I would like but I think you are smart enough to understand what I am saying and how I felt your statement implied what I am suggesting
Honestly all you're doing is taking a few examples and painting the whole indie scene with them. The standouts are just as rare in both AAA and indie alike. Both also have the same issue of pretenders cashing on on already successful ideas, like the ever growing number of build'ems, and survival games popping up left and right ever since dayz and Minecraft became in-things...
Don't even get me started on RPGmaker games...
Agreed. The Indie scene is so full of copy cat crap it is not even funny. It is really hard to even find a game on say Steam anymore because the vast majority are garbage. Both AAA and Indie games are guilty of the same thing. Rehashes, Copies and rushed to market games. Yeah and all those 'RPG' games being released on Steam using RPGMaker is just ugh......
however, in the context of this conversation I refer to 'building/survial/crafting' games as my examples. Yes I dont list them all but those are the games I am refering to in this conversation and yet people say there is a metric fuck ton of them. So is that me using limited examples? how so?
yeah that doesnt work I am afraid. meaning digesting the validaty of one game for pages in a post about games in general vs. not responding unless directly spoken to is miles apart
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Works in the context that I was not talking to you. We agreed to not talk about it with each other so bugger off. I was not talking to you. Back to ignore you go kid.
ah yes...ok fair enough I will take that.. good deal
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Changing? Or going away. That's what I'd argue. After collosal failures like SW:TOR, major developers are pulling back to lick their collective wounds.
Changing? Or going away. That's what I'd argue. After collosal failures like SW:TOR, major developers are pulling back to lick their collective wounds.
I think they are looking at the per dollar per developer results some games are having and re-evaluating which I had a feeling would happen.
You can have only so many stories of 'developer team of 3 people sell a million copies' without someone in the AAA market taking a closer look. Regarding the title in my example if I had seen that video and not known it was a conan IP I would swear it was an Early Access game
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I said long ago the trend is changing and we should support all attempts including indie one's to succeed . Who knows maybe Blizzard will pull off a sandbox WOW ?LOL
indie game and AAA games are not alike, they are very different. They both might be great fun (at least to you) but they are radically different. I think you would have a hard time explain how they are the same and yet indies rarely ever have cut scenes and AAAs rarely have building features.
Are they both equally as fun? (you think so, I dont) but that is a different conversation from: 'AAA games, just like Indie games, are just games.' (implied being they mostly have the same features)
that statement is fundamentally not true and its not subjective, I can proove it.
I am not explaining this as well as I would like but I think you are smart enough to understand what I am saying and how I felt your statement implied what I am suggesting
Honestly all you're doing is taking a few examples and painting the whole indie scene with them. The standouts are just as rare in both AAA and indie alike. Both also have the same issue of pretenders cashing on on already successful ideas, like the ever growing number of build'ems, and survival games popping up left and right ever since dayz and Minecraft became in-things...
Don't even get me started on RPGmaker games...
on the one hand people are saying 'oh no not another crafting building game enough all ready so many of them!' (vast majority of such games are indie games)
and on the other hand you are saying I am taking only a few examples when I am referring to indie games of this specific type.
think about that.
so which is it? market is over saturated with crafting/building/survial games or I am using a small subset of games as an example?
That comment was aimed your attempt to paint the indie scene in the manner you did. Like it's full of highly innovative unique titles. I was merely pointing out the indie scene suffers from the same problems as AAA games do, that's over saturation of copycats of all types, not just survival games. Something tells me you know what I was saying, but stubbornness leads you to argue over it anyway, as well as throw up a strawman of an argument in response..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
So I made a comment about the new Conan Exlies with a lot of assumptions based on ignorance. I suggested the game didnt have buildings nor destructible structures. well it very much does. I dont recall this type of building in a AAA game other than Fallout 4 that I can recall so my question is this:
Are AAA games changing now for the better?
What are you talking about.... no other AAA game. EQNext has it... oh, wait. nvm
So I made a comment about the new Conan Exlies with a lot of assumptions based on ignorance. I suggested the game didnt have buildings nor destructible structures. well it very much does. I dont recall this type of building in a AAA game other than Fallout 4 that I can recall so my question is this:
Are AAA games changing now for the better?
What are you talking about.... no other AAA game. EQNext has it... oh, wait. nvm
I guess one could argue H1Z1 (which was released while DB was still SOE) you can build in that game can't you? It says so on the Steam page. "Scavenge, craft, and build to protect yourself from zombies, roaming beasts, and perhaps the deadliest threat of all – fellow humans."
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
If its not it does explain why it appears to be more like an indie project than a AAA
I did some research on Paradox Interactive and the conculsion I have come to from reading some articles and finding them on an 'indie database' but not finding RockStar on the same 'indie database' is that Paradox is like Valve in that they walk and talk like an indie but are mega huge.
I am going with 'Indie Database' on this one in saying Paradox Interactive is an indie company in the spirit that anyone who has gaming experience can tell the difference regardless of the company income.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Right, maybe I've misunderstood the purpose of the thread.
What do you mean by "changing"?
I know you said you fundamentally, to your core, don't believe that AAA developers ever change, but perhaps I've misunderstood what you mean by change.
For example, Nintendo (AAA dev) moving from traditional video games to the motion-capture Wii console, aimed at ultra-casuals and non-gamers, was a pretty massive change.
Microsoft launching their own console, rather than developing / publishing for other platforms, was a massive change.
Rockstar putting a fully-featured online mode in GTA5 was a big change.
Ubisoft creating a new IP and new gameplay systems with Watch Dogs was a big change.
Or are you talking about business practices? Receiving a pitch, evaluating it for market credibility and viability, making decisions on what to invest in, marketing etc? Is is those sorts of practices you're hoping will change?
<---- confused
Currently Playing: WAR RoR - Spitt rr80 Black Orc | Scrotling rr6X Squig Herder | Scabrous rr5X Shaman
Right, maybe I've misunderstood the purpose of the thread.
What do you mean by "changing"?
I know you said you fundamentally, to your core, don't believe that AAA developers ever change, but perhaps I've misunderstood what you mean by change.
For example, Nintendo (AAA dev) moving from traditional video games to the motion-capture Wii console, aimed at ultra-casuals and non-gamers, was a pretty massive change.
Microsoft launching their own console, rather than developing / publishing for other platforms, was a massive change.
Rockstar putting a fully-featured online mode in GTA5 was a big change.
Ubisoft creating a new IP and new gameplay systems with Watch Dogs was a big change.
Or are you talking about business practices? Receiving a pitch, evaluating it for market credibility and viability, making decisions on what to invest in, marketing etc? Is is those sorts of practices you're hoping will change?
<---- confused
I would have NEVER said that fundamentally to my core a AAA cant change. I believe that in the future its possible for the entire gaming industry to be radically different in ways that are as impossible to predict as someone saying Linux would dominate the smart phone business 10 years ago.
HOWEVER....Watch Dogs is not a big change at all. Its GTA with a few minor modifications. Its slow ....painfully slow small minor changes that have the same effect. But they sell it to you like 'hacking' is the largest change in gaming industry in several years, meanwhile the indie market is launching spaceships and landing on planets.
wait...are you seriously saying making GTA have an online feature is a 'major change'? seriously?
I find it amazing how a AAA company can produce the same game for 5 iterations, then make a small change and create a 'new IP' and people go completley ape shit like its a major change....lol
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Comments
(Pst. I'm rooting for you blue!)
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
Out of Reach (currently been playing) (by what I am used this game is fairly basic. it has a ways to go but i would not put in on the 'complex' side of indie games) that said
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I would never call that a "change for the better". Because, it almost inherently means copying and not creating. Sure, you may get more polish from a AAA developer when they borrow an idea, but that won't make it original or new.
I'd love to see more AAA studios go back to what they used to do and create original and awesome ideas, instead of just riding the gravy-train of sequels and copying trends.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Don't even get me started on RPGmaker games...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
and on the other hand you are saying I am taking only a few examples when I am referring to indie games of this specific type.
think about that.
so which is it? market is over saturated with crafting/building/survial games or I am using a small subset of games as an example?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
You can have only so many stories of 'developer team of 3 people sell a million copies' without someone in the AAA market taking a closer look. Regarding the title in my example if I had seen that video and not known it was a conan IP I would swear it was an Early Access game
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I self identify as a monkey.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I did some research on Paradox Interactive and the conculsion I have come to from reading some articles and finding them on an 'indie database' but not finding RockStar on the same 'indie database' is that Paradox is like Valve in that they walk and talk like an indie but are mega huge.
I am going with 'Indie Database' on this one in saying Paradox Interactive is an indie company in the spirit that anyone who has gaming experience can tell the difference regardless of the company income.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
What do you mean by "changing"?
I know you said you fundamentally, to your core, don't believe that AAA developers ever change, but perhaps I've misunderstood what you mean by change.
For example, Nintendo (AAA dev) moving from traditional video games to the motion-capture Wii console, aimed at ultra-casuals and non-gamers, was a pretty massive change.
Microsoft launching their own console, rather than developing / publishing for other platforms, was a massive change.
Rockstar putting a fully-featured online mode in GTA5 was a big change.
Ubisoft creating a new IP and new gameplay systems with Watch Dogs was a big change.
Or are you talking about business practices? Receiving a pitch, evaluating it for market credibility and viability, making decisions on what to invest in, marketing etc? Is is those sorts of practices you're hoping will change?
<---- confused
HOWEVER....Watch Dogs is not a big change at all. Its GTA with a few minor modifications. Its slow ....painfully slow small minor changes that have the same effect. But they sell it to you like 'hacking' is the largest change in gaming industry in several years, meanwhile the indie market is launching spaceships and landing on planets.
wait...are you seriously saying making GTA have an online feature is a 'major change'? seriously?
I find it amazing how a AAA company can produce the same game for 5 iterations, then make a small change and create a 'new IP' and people go completley ape shit like its a major change....lol
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me